Is a Blacklist forwever?

[bapak]

Have a friend who was charged with an offence about 30 years ago. The Appeal Court and the Supreme Court found him not guilty. However, when he left Thailand about a week later,Immigration at the Airport put a Black List into his passport and I assume also a computer entry.

He would like to visit some friends here now. Would he still be black listed? I seem to remember somewhere that a black list was only for 5 years. Any truth in this? My friend is now 67 years old.

[thepool]

Who knows ?

A Thai lawyer could find out for him, at a cost of course

[ubonjoe]

He could try and get the info from the Thai embassy where he is living. Others have tried this route and failed to get the info though.

The only sure way is do as said is to contact a law firm here and pay them to do the check. He could contact one of the two firms that are sponsors of this forum. If he was still on the list they could also file an appeal at immigration to have it removed.

[mickjn]

Was the offence he committed in Thailand??.What is his nationality??. How long since he has how in Thailand??

[bapak]

Was the offence he committed in Thailand??.What is his nationality??. How long since he has how in Thailand??

Offense in Thailand.. Last in Thailand about 30 years ago. Nationality New Zealand. Keep in mind that both the Appeal Court and the Supreme Count found him not guilty, It was only on departure at the airport that Immigration put stamp in passport. That passport has long expired but who knows what is in the computer.

[mickjn]

I got you Sir.OK.If the Supreme Court found him not guilty why would he have to appeal.Or did the Supreme Court find him guility and appealed and was found not guilty.

[ubonjoe]

I got you Sir.OK.If the Supreme Court found him not guilty why would he have to appeal.Or did the Supreme Court find him guility and appealed and was found not guilty.

You have it reversed. It is possible that the prosecution appealed it all the way up to the appeals court and then the supreme court. because the courts found him not guilty.. Or he appealed it to the appeals court and then the prosecution appealed it to the supreme court.

You have to remember that Thailand has no double jeopardy clause in it's constitution. The prosecution here can appeal a not guilty decision.

[mickjn]

OK

[bapak]

I got you Sir.OK.If the Supreme Court found him not guilty why would he have to appeal.Or did the Supreme Court find him guility and appealed and was found not guilty.

You have it reversed. It is possible that the prosecution appealed it all the way up to the appeals court and then the supreme court. because the courts found him not guilty.. Or he appealed it to the appeals court and then the prosecution appealed it to the supreme court.

You have to remember that Thailand has no double jeopardy clause in it's constitution. The prosecution here can appeal a not guilty decision.

You are correct.

He was found guilty at the Provincial Court (isn't everyone)

He appealed to the Appeal Court and found not guilty.

The Prosecutor then appealed to the Supreme Court (the Dika.. the highest court of the land).

Supreme Court also found him not guilty,

[mickjn]

OK Since he left Thailand has he been a good boy

[PiPiFFS]

Surely if he applied for a visa to enter Thailand in his home country then any blacklist would be highlighted and a visa refused ?

[ubonjoe]

Surely if he applied for a visa to enter Thailand in his home country then any blacklist would be highlighted and a visa refused ?

They don't check for black listing at the embassies.

I can recall a report of a person getting a visa and was denied entry because of being blacklisted..

[mickjn]

Only way to find out get a ticket and take the chance.Solicitor will cost you as much,I would have a go,and you can have a few drinks and I feed on the plane.I think in the end but I am not sure the offence might come but the offence that was committed 30 years ago but the final decision is up to immigration that day.

[tropo]

Surely if he applied for a visa to enter Thailand in his home country then any blacklist would be highlighted and a visa refused ?

Could be worse. The Thai Consulate in NZ may present him with a visa, he travels to Thailand and is refused entry and he's wasted his time and money. Visas do not guarantee entry.

Best idea is to sort it out with a competent lawyer and have the data base cleared - however that can be done.

[IBoldnewguy]

Does your friend have documents so that you can know exact dates and details? I'm not sure how he can even ask the question, on his own, without alerting immigration... it has to be specific to his case.

Did they actually have an automated immigration system in Thailand in 1984? I think that the severity of the charges against him would have a lot to do with the information being updated. Thirty years ago (1984) computers were just beginning their advance into mass popularity - many USA public systems have been upgraded several times since then - I know some of my old minor sins got washed away. Many old programs didn't work with the new and info updates had to be entered manually.

The question is more how much is the trip worth to him? He won't know unless he pays the cost to access the info. I wouldn't come without it unless I had a backup plan/destination - for instance, if they won't admit him here - he can buy ticket and catch next flight to Laos or where ever... so whichever way he goes... it's going to cost...

[Bel Mondo]

No. Nothing is forever. Get a lawyer to pay the proper money and all goes away as "if by magic".

[whoisyourdaddy]

This being Thailand and 30 years ago, i am almost certain no records any longer exists or kept.

Also being with new passport, i am sure there is nothing to worry about.

Worst case scenario, he gets turned away at the airport and flies back, but again i seriously doubt it.

Do not think Thailand had computers 30 years and seriously doubt they kept the data from such a long time ago

[simple1]

This being Thailand and 30 years ago, i am almost certain no records any longer exists or kept.

Also being with new passport, i am sure there is nothing to worry about.

Worst case scenario, he gets turned away at the airport and flies back, but again i seriously doubt it.

Do not think Thailand had computers 30 years and seriously doubt they kept the data from such a long time ago

If border stopped & denied entry does not help when travelling to other countries to have such a stamp in your passport. A long time ago happened to me, not Thailand, and became such a hassle had to get a new passort

[Pattayarossoblu]

Bapak,for what your friend was convicted?I have a friend of mine,from Italy,slaps and fight with police officer on second road in front of Mike shopping,about 6 years ago.Jailed,paied the fine,blacklisted,but just for 5 years

[tropo]

This being Thailand and 30 years ago, i am almost certain no records any longer exists or kept.

Also being with new passport, i am sure there is nothing to worry about.

Worst case scenario, he gets turned away at the airport and flies back, but again i seriously doubt it.

Do not think Thailand had computers 30 years and seriously doubt they kept the data from such a long time ago

If border stopped & denied entry does not help when travelling to other countries to have such a stamp in your passport. A long time ago happened to me, not Thailand, and became such a hassle had to get a new passort

There's many countries in the region who would be quite happy to have him if he was turned away. Do you think immigration officers at busy airports have time to thoroughly inspect passports upon entry. Do you think they could read a Thai stamp in passport and understand it's significance? I doubt it.

He may find a better home.

[simple1]

This being Thailand and 30 years ago, i am almost certain no records any longer exists or kept.

Also being with new passport, i am sure there is nothing to worry about.

Worst case scenario, he gets turned away at the airport and flies back, but again i seriously doubt it.

Do not think Thailand had computers 30 years and seriously doubt they kept the data from such a long time ago

If border stopped & denied entry does not help when travelling to other countries to have such a stamp in your passport. A long time ago happened to me, not Thailand, and became such a hassle had to get a new passort

There's many countries in the region who would be quite happy to have him if he was turned away. Do you think immigration officers at busy airports have time to thoroughly inspect passports upon entry. Do you think they could read a Thai stamp in passport and understand it's significance? I doubt it.

He may find a better home.

I would assume that any entry denial would be captured electronically. In the past years there have were two projects announced in the public domain for integrating ASEAN/APAC border control for security, alerts etc. Do not know the current status/progress for golive.

ERDIT: There was a lengthy topic on an NZ passport holder who was denied entry, returned to his last port of exit, Australia & again denied entry due to the denial of entry to Thailand and had to return to NZ. I believe he eventually entered Cambodia.

[thepool]

"There's many countries in the region who would be quite happy to have him if he was turned away. Do you think immigration officers at busy airports have time to thoroughly inspect passports upon entry. Do you think they could read a Thai stamp in passport and understand it's significance? I doubt it.

He may find a better home."

If denied entry a person is required to return to wherever they came from !

It is likely such a person would be detained until such an eviction was achieved.

[cacruden]

Just fly to an adjacent country (then on to Thailand on an hours flight or so) - if he gets rejected entry he can just go back there and have a holiday. Not a complete waste.

[ezzra]

Best way to legally circumvent such ban would be to get a new passport after a slight change

of the surname by deed poll, that way no one is the wiser and he/she will come up on the

immigrations radar, it have done before with great success....

[tropo]

I would assume that any entry denial would be captured electronically. In the past years there have were two projects announced in the public domain for integrating ASEAN/APAC border control for security, alerts etc. Do not know the current status/progress for golive.

ERDIT: There was a lengthy topic on an NZ passport holder who was denied entry, returned to his last port of exit, Australia & again denied entry due to the denial of entry to Thailand and had to return to NZ. I believe he eventually entered Cambodia.

Returning to the last port of exit after failing entry at destination would raise some eyebrows if it is not your home country. Most Australian airports are fairly quiet most of the time compared to Asian ports. They have time to examine things more closely. I've spent quite a bit of time being pulled apart by customers at various Aussie airports over the years. They have time on their hands.

People who quickly pass in and out of the same airport on the same day would probably send off (computer) alarms, marking them for closer scrutiny. Especially in a place as isolated as Australia.

[thepool]

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Just fly to an adjacent country (then on to Thailand on an hours flight or so) - if he gets rejected entry he can just go back there and have a holiday. Not a complete waste.

You are offering potentially bad advice.

A refusal of entry would show in a passport and there would be absolutely no guarantee of such a passport holder being allowed entry to any country other than their own.

[tropo]

"There's many countries in the region who would be quite happy to have him if he was turned away. Do you think immigration officers at busy airports have time to thoroughly inspect passports upon entry. Do you think they could read a Thai stamp in passport and understand it's significance? I doubt it.

He may find a better home."

If denied entry a person is required to return to wherever they came from !

It is likely such a person would be detained until such an eviction was achieved.

That would make for an interesting situation if he doesn't have a return ticket. Who pays? Does he get locked up in Thailand?

[Mario2008]

He pays himself. If he can't, they lock him up till he has a ticket out.

But most likely in this situation is that the person would be taken in for questioning. At that moment he can show court papers that he was cleared and that should be the end of it after they have verified that. If not he can appeal him being denied entry and the minister will have to make a decison within 7 days.

As it really is a decision taken on that high a level, chances are there is no decison within 7 days. That means they have to let you enter.

[Estrada]

To be personna non grata in Thailand is very serious case, i.e., your name is recorded in a secret 'Confidential List', popularly known as the 'black list'; and you will be banned from entering Thailand forever. It is extremely difficult to have your name removed from the 'black list'. In the old days, in Countries that allow you to change your name by deed poll, you could change your name and enter on a genuine new passport under your new name. However, these days many Countries including Thailand and New Zealand use the Advanced Passenger Processing System (APP) which should have all other names you have used in the past, as well as the fact you are on the blacklist. The APP system will also tell Thai Immigration if a wanted criminal has boarded a flight to Thailand so they can arrest him/her on arrival.

[rickirs]

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I got you Sir.OK.If the Supreme Court found him not guilty why would he have to appeal.Or did the Supreme Court find him guility and appealed and was found not guilty.

You have it reversed. It is possible that the prosecution appealed it all the way up to the appeals court and then the supreme court. because the courts found him not guilty.. Or he appealed it to the appeals court and then the prosecution appealed it to the supreme court.

You have to remember that Thailand has no double jeopardy clause in it's constitution. The prosecution here can appeal a not guilty decision.

Similar to Italy where Amanda Knox was found innocent on Appeals but is now being retried. Also, there seems to be no time limit in Thailand as to when the prosecution can retry someone initially ruled innocent such as was the case of Thaksin.