'Contact lost' with Malaysia Airlines plane with 239 people on board

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted along with inflammatory posts.

[kingalfred]

I wonder how often passports are stolen inThailand? Is it number one in another league table?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[simple1]

I was at KL airport a few months ago and I thought the passport control was quite strict.. The guy at passport control checked my photo quite a few times whilst asking me some random questions about the passport itself and my travel itinerary!

Very good...were you also in a full face covering chador or burka and did they ask you to remove it to verify that you were the person in the passport's photo? Or maybe I'm mistaken and in Muslim countries, women take their passport photos with their faces fully covered so that their fully burka covered faces match the photos in their passports.

In Melbourne they have their own private secluded screening area and are processed by muslims only.

Good but here we're talking about a plane that took off from KUL with apparently two passengers using fake/forged passports. So I was just commenting on the lax security I have observed when departing KUL. I have seen groups of Muslim "women" in full body/face covering garb passed through passport control with no attempt to match their faces to the passport photo (by removing the face covering). There could be anyone under those clothes when they don't verify due to undue deference to Muslim notions of female modesty, putting everyone one flights departing KUL in danger. It may have caught up to them now.

I do not subscribe to your opinion that their is zero identification of a passport holder, international carriers would not permit boarding. I suggest Malaysian immigration would use the electronic fingerprint scanning facility at passport control

[Tayida]

Remember that in that area a terrorist group called Uliguri in past was the subject of some terrorist attack.they are an islamic group from turky/kazakistan race......

[Scott]

A post with messed up quotes has been deleted.

[soihok]

I do not subscribe to your opinion that their is zero identification of a passport holder, international carriers would not permit boarding. I suggest Malaysian immigration would use the electronic fingerprint scanning facility at passport control

They have the facility and use it (although not consistently, from my experience)

[Jingthing]

On the basis that the two stolen passports belonged to an Italian and an Austrian we can deduce that the current holders were of Western appearance.

No we can't at all! The original holders could be ANY ethnicity. Also, passport pictures can be changed.

pictures in modern passports can only be changed in Hollywood movies.

So you're an expert in passport tampering?

[Kerryd]

I do not subscribe to your opinion that their is zero identification of a passport holder, international carriers would not permit boarding. I suggest Malaysian immigration would use the electronic fingerprint scanning facility at passport control

They have the facility and use it (although not consistently, from my experience)

I travel through certain airports on a fairly regular basis (UAE, Afghanistan, Bahrain). I see it happen so often that I don't bother even shaking my head in amazement any more. One man walking up to a check-in booth, or immigration counter, or boarding gate, and handing over a thick stack of passports, followed by the whole burqua/niqab/etc clad clan of wives (and children) who are then ushered through without so much as a glance.

The first dozen or so times I watched that happen, I couldn't fathom how they could just let them all walk through without verifying any of them.

I've also watched (In Kabul, on occasion, years ago now) "certain" people escorted around the terminal building and through a different entrance to the tarmac, and then board a plane without going through any checks of any kind what so ever. I used to laugh when I watched a group of men and women enter the Kabul terminal building. The security people at the entrance would search only the men and wave the women, with all their bags and such, through. Once inside they could swap stuff around or do pretty much anything, especially as the scanners and metal detectors rarely worked properly (or not at all).

On rare occasions I've seen a burqua/niqab clad woman taken to an enclosed room/booth to be checked by a female security guard, usually only after they've beeped the metal detector a few too many times. (Or, in one case of one of our rather well-endowed female employees, to be fondled by the female security guard who wanted to know if "they were real".)

As I said, these days I don't even bother shaking my head. I just hope it's not "my time to go" when I get on the plane.

[Bpuumike]

On the basis that the two stolen passports belonged to an Italian and an Austrian we can deduce that the current holders were of Western appearance.

No we can't at all! The original holders could be ANY ethnicity. Also, passport pictures can be changed.

pictures in modern passports can only be changed in Hollywood movies.

So you're an expert in passport tampering?

Most countries' passports nowadays have the photo and biodata etched into special paper and cannot be tampered with. Usually these can only be produced in the home country. This is why, for example, us Brits have to wait for a new passport to be issued in the UK as it is no longer possible at the BKK or any other embassy.

[Dario]

Looks like this air disaster will take some time until any debris will be found.

I also would like to retract my earlier idea of a mid-air explosion. The interception of a distress message from MH370 picked up by US Forces at Uthapao airbase leads us to believe that we're dealing here rather with an air frame issue. I just saw another important message on pprune.org from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board), I quote:

NTSB - Press Release

March 8, 2014
The National Transportation Safety Board has a team of investigators en route to Asia to be ready to assist with the investigation of the March 8 Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 event. The Boeing 777 went missing on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Once the location of the airplane is determined, International Civil Aviation Organization protocols will determine which country will lead the investigation.
Because of the lengthy travel time from the United States, the NTSB has sent a team of investigators, accompanied by technical advisers from Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration, to the area so they will be positioned to offer U.S. assistance. The team departed from the U.S. tonight.

The country that leads the investigation will release all information about it.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Dario

[Tywais]

Troll post removed and comment on moderation. This is a serious matter so stay on topic.

[Dario]

The South China Morning Post reported at 11:45 China local time :

New possible sighting of debris at sea as China sends warships to join search for missing Malaysian Airlines flight

I quote:

"Photographs purporting to show debris in the sea in the area where the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 lost contact have been posted on Chinese social media.

The pictures, supposedly taken by a Chinese passenger on board another MA flight from Beijing which landed safely in Kuala Lumpur on Sunday morning, shows what appears to be fragmented debris floating on waters about 90 minutes out to sea from the Malaysian capital.

The poster, whose profile information says he is a banker working for China Minsheng Bank in Beijing, wrote that he took the snaps from his window at a height of 11,000 metres, at about 6.45am on Sunday."

To see the whole article go here. Please note: SCMP only published one single photo of the debris. I try to insert the picture but am unable to do so. No option to insert available today, I dunno why ...

Edited March 9, 2014 by Tywais

[Mosha]

Looks like this air disaster will take some time until any debris will be found.

I also would like to retract my earlier idea of a mid-air explosion. The interception of a distress message from MH370 picked up by US Forces at Uthapao airbase leads us to believe that we're dealing here rather with an air frame issue. I just saw another important message on pprune.org from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board), I quote:

NTSB - Press Release

March 8, 2014

The National Transportation Safety Board has a team of investigators en route to Asia to be ready to assist with the investigation of the March 8 Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 event. The Boeing 777 went missing on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Once the location of the airplane is determined, International Civil Aviation Organization protocols will determine which country will lead the investigation.

Because of the lengthy travel time from the United States, the NTSB has sent a team of investigators, accompanied by technical advisers from Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration, to the area so they will be positioned to offer U.S. assistance. The team departed from the U.S. tonight.

The country that leads the investigation will release all information about it.

Wouldn't an em landing in Vietnam have been a better option to turning back?

[Dario]

Looks like this air disaster will take some time until any debris will be found.

I also would like to retract my earlier idea of a mid-air explosion. The interception of a distress message from MH370 picked up by US Forces at Uthapao airbase leads us to believe that we're dealing here rather with an air frame issue. I just saw another important message on pprune.org from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board), I quote:

NTSB - Press Release

March 8, 2014

The National Transportation Safety Board has a team of investigators en route to Asia to be ready to assist with the investigation of the March 8 Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 event. The Boeing 777 went missing on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Once the location of the airplane is determined, International Civil Aviation Organization protocols will determine which country will lead the investigation.

Because of the lengthy travel time from the United States, the NTSB has sent a team of investigators, accompanied by technical advisers from Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration, to the area so they will be positioned to offer U.S. assistance. The team departed from the U.S. tonight.

The country that leads the investigation will release all information about it.

Wouldn't an em landing in Vietnam have been a better option to turning back?

Sure. But what do you mean with "turning back"? I guess MH370 didn't have any option at all when disaster stroke.

[negreanu]

The interception of a distress message from MH370 picked up by US Forces at Uthapao airbase leads us to believe that we're dealing here rather with an air frame issue.

Where was that confirmed?

Wouldn't an em landing in Vietnam have been a better option to turning back?

Depends. If there was Crew interference from a third party or the nature of the problem.

[harrry]

Looks like this air disaster will take some time until any debris will be found.

I also would like to retract my earlier idea of a mid-air explosion. The interception of a distress message from MH370 picked up by US Forces at Uthapao airbase leads us to believe that we're dealing here rather with an air frame issue. I just saw another important message on pprune.org from the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board), I quote:

NTSB - Press Release

March 8, 2014

The National Transportation Safety Board has a team of investigators en route to Asia to be ready to assist with the investigation of the March 8 Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 event. The Boeing 777 went missing on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Once the location of the airplane is determined, International Civil Aviation Organization protocols will determine which country will lead the investigation.

Because of the lengthy travel time from the United States, the NTSB has sent a team of investigators, accompanied by technical advisers from Boeing and the Federal Aviation Administration, to the area so they will be positioned to offer U.S. assistance. The team departed from the U.S. tonight.

The country that leads the investigation will release all information about it.

Wouldn't an em landing in Vietnam have been a better option to turning back?

Sure. But what do you mean with "turning back"? I guess MH370 didn't have any option at all when disaster stroke.

If they had just had a multiple engine failure they probably could have glided 100 km from 35000ft. this could have bougth them back to an airport in northern malasia. theoretically if on Autopilot the search path would have to extend on the autopilot course for the full fuel range of the plane, (This has happened in Australia). thus the standard search earea probably covers to the plane and back to the original airport.... a line along the projected flight path and a circle around last seen.

[Dario]

The interception of a distress message from MH370 picked up by US Forces at Uthapao airbase leads us to believe that we're dealing here rather with an air frame issue.

Where was that confirmed?

Wouldn't an em landing in Vietnam have been a better option to turning back?

Depends. If there was Crew interference from a third party or the nature of the problem.

According to this article in the China Times this news was released by a U.S. embassy. Couldn't be any more official. The original article is in Chinese, I quote the passage about the message in English (Google translation):

"In addition, the U.S. Embassy said the 2:43 U.S. military bases stationed in Thailand U-Tapao SOS signal was listening to some of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 emergency call, said the aircraft cabin facing disintegration driver call, they want a forced landing . U.S. troops are currently stationed in Thailand, Malaysia has been providing this signal."

Hope this helps.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Dario

[Dario]

The South China Morning Post reported at 11:45 China local time :

New possible sighting of debris at sea as China sends warships to join search for missing Malaysian Airlines flight

Several members at pprune.org now suggesting that these are not a/c debris ... Somebody thinks these are fishing boats. But that seems to be wrong as well.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Dario

[harrry]

The South China Morning Post reported at 11:45 China local time :

New possible sighting of debris at sea as China sends warships to join search for missing Malaysian Airlines flight

Several members at pprune.org now suggesting that these are not a/c debris ... Somebody thinks these are fishing boats.

That was my first thought...those boats with lights..

[sunshine51]

^^^ Regarding the above pic...on page 36 or thereabouts of the pprune

website there's a statement that these may actually be greenhouses

that are always lit up at night over Vietnam.

Link... pprune.org

I posted the same pic on the other thread and got the info from the

SCMP newspaper from Hong Kong....more mystery now than before.

Where's the dam_n plane? And why are the Malaysians being so

tight lipped?

[Naam]

On the basis that the two stolen passports belonged to an Italian and an Austrian we can deduce that the current holders were of Western appearance.

No we can't at all! The original holders could be ANY ethnicity. Also, passport pictures can be changed.

pictures in modern passports can only be changed in Hollywood movies.

So you're an expert in passport tampering?

take a good look at your passport. that might avoid more silly questions. even the Mossad is not able to alter stolen passports for its murderous agents. real identities are used and relevant passports are produced from the scratch.

[harrry]

take a good look at your passport. that might avoid more silly questions. even the Mossad is not able to alter stolen passports for its murderous agents. real identities are used and relevant passports are produced from the scratch.

Or as Australia found out false Australian passports....http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-02-26/mossad-factory-churned-out-fake-australian/343612

[Credo]

Stolen passports could be used to get through countries with lax controls and/or little access to international databases. They get sprung in developed western countries and those that keep close tabs on terrorists (and a few other crimes).

I don't know what the chances are of being on a flight with passengers with stolen passports, but I would guess that given SE Asia is a hub of people smuggling, it would be higher than most people might think.

[Tywais]

Stolen passports could be used to get through countries with lax controls and/or little access to international databases. They get sprung in developed western countries and those that keep close tabs on terrorists (and a few other crimes).

I don't know what the chances are of being on a flight with passengers with stolen passports, but I would guess that given SE Asia is a hub of people smuggling, it would be higher than most people might think.

Officials note that there were other criminal reasons, such as drug smuggling, that stolen passports might be used to board a plane.

The Italian on the passenger list whose passport had been stolen was Luigi Maraldi, 37. His father, Walter Maraldi, told NBC News on Saturday that Luigi was vacationing in Thailand and had called to check in.

“We didn’t know about the accident,” the father said from Cesena, Italy. “Thank God he heard about it before us.”

Walter Maraldi said his son had his passport stolen a year ago in Thailand.

In Austria, the foreign ministry confirmed to NBC News that police had made contact with a citizen who was also on the passenger list, and who reported his passport stolen two years ago.

“We believe that the name and passport were used by an unidentified person to board the plane,” a spokesman for the ministry said.

It is unusual, but not unheard of, for one person to board a plane with a stolen passport. It is very rare for two people with stolen passports to board the same plane, terrorism analysts say.

nbcnews

[Credo]

Yes, there are a number of reasons for using a stolen passport, but probably the least likely reason is terrorism.

I knew someone who was involved in having his passport 'stolen' and then it being used to smuggle people. He was eventually sprung, but they couldn't prove it. He would travel with two passports, The legal one for himself and the stolen one for another person, whom he would meet in a transit lounge, the passport would be traded off (usually left in a newspaper at a pre-designated time and place). He would then travel on to somewhere, stay overnight and return back. Meanwhile the stolen passport (which had been sold) was used to get the person into a western country. There have been security changes since then, but that's how it works. These people are usually transiting through countries on their way to a Western country where they will seek asylum, so the stolen document is of little concern once they get to their destination.

Immigration was to some extent involved in the trafficking. He was instructed to go through a certain channel at immigration at a certain time. His documents were legal, but apparently some hands were greased to make sure there were no hiccups.

A terrorist would be really, really stupid to use such a document. Terrorism is a sophisticated plot, usually, and this would be a very weak link in the chain.

[tomyummer]

Thailand in the spotlight again. Apparently the two stolen passports were taken in Thailand. Of course it was Thailand.

[Jingthing]

Was it mentioned yet that the stolen passport passengers bought their tickets TOGETHER? Hmmm.

[theoldgit]

Link to what appears to be a photo shopped fake website, and comments, removed.

In the event the link proves to be genuine, it can be reinstated.

This is a various serious thread with a possibility of multiple losses of innocent lives, please show some respect.

[canman]

Link to what appears to be a photo shopped fake website, and comments, removed.

In the event the link proves to be genuine, it can be reinstated.

This is a various serious thread with a possibility of multiple losses of innocent lives, please show some respect.

Mods, I think you have done the right thing.

Seems it could very well be a false report. Please accept my apologies everyone.

What kind of pr1ck puts up a fake story like that

[Tywais]

Link to what appears to be a photo shopped fake website, and comments, removed.

In the event the link proves to be genuine, it can be reinstated.

This is a various serious thread with a possibility of multiple losses of innocent lives, please show some respect.

Mods, I think you have done the right thing.

Seems it could very well be a false report. Please accept my apologies everyone.

What kind of pr1ck puts up a fake story like that

It is false. Using Google Images I found several exact matches of that photo from 2013 on Chinese defense sites but without the BBC. It was an anti-hijacking exercise in Macao.

We need to use due diligence with reports like that. If it isn't in a mainstream media source, preferably more than one, it should be looked at suspiciously. I was excited when I first saw the post until realizing it was a hoax. Imagine the families getting their hopes up and then dashed. I have a few choice words about that site but will refrain from posting them.