Thai Democrat Party threatens to boycott second election

[Scamper]

This will be viewed as controversial by many. And it will be discussed by historians for years. But I for one am certain that the Democrats have made the right decision here. Reform will never take place if Thaksin knows he will be able to secure a forum. He thinks he has the Democratic party cornered - that all he has to do is call another election, get another family member in there, and everything remains the same. He's counting on the fact that the Democratic party will have to contest the election or face dissolution. By deliberately falling on the sword, the Democratic party is willing to face dissolution if it can bring about a period of reform. This may or may not work. But it's the best shot there is. And it is the right thing to do. The Democratic party of Thailand is Thailand's oldest party. This is a principled stand. It means that if it succeeds, the Democratic party's last act will have pointed a way to a new era in Thai politics where people like Thaksin can no longer control it.

[djjamie]

Chavanond would be stating this election boycotting with the the PTP committed voting fraud in parliament still fresh in his mind. It is the only principle of democracy the PTP purport to respect because they can manipulate the outcome.

​What a sacrifice the DEM's are potentially making were they would rather see their party dissolve than see the country run where the values of democracy, morality and respect for the majority voice are replaced with corruption, abuse of power all at the whim of an unelectable criminal.That is a sacrifice that Jatuporn would never understand. This is similar to the sacrifice that the DEM's made in 2011 when they sacrificed winning the election to ensure they remanded fiscally disciplined. They could have won of course by simply offering 1% more for the rice than the 1/15th democrats did.

The PTP respect majority voice I mentioned come election time, but drop it quicker than Tarit dropping the asset concealment charges against yingluck post ballot box which is why we are at this crossroads. A 200 000 strong armed street gang with lighters and run by an accused terrorist jatuporn who was "blooded" like a dog in 2010 and like that "blooded" dog is ready to unleash this undisciplined gang onto anyone that does not share the same beliefs as him and who feels wronged because the PTP refuse to follow the rule of law and now they are being held accountable. Speaking of the law on the other side of the road is the rule of law, the constitution, reform, those other principles of democracy the PTP have "lost" as they do not suit their agenda.

This all came about unsurprisingly and predictable by the PTP who went against the voice of the majority to push an amnesty bill through on the command of one unelectable criminal fugitive. That sounds more like a dictatorship than a democracy yet this is the form of democracy Ko Tee and Jatuporns street gangs will fight, loot and burn to defend. The amnesty bill under an inaptly named reconciliation bill will be the only reconciliation bill in history that will not only have the opposite affect, but also potentially cause a civil war. Regarding this "civil war" bill yingluck said "Since this government took power it has focused on reconciliation" yet in the stark reality that shows she is, all words and no action, some still believe her even when the country is on the brink of civil war with terrorists barking on the boundaries of Bangkok. It is these simple simple folk in the provinces that are the ones that need the most help. They are the ones that think another election before reform will fill in the cracks of anti democratic impulses that swim in this cesspool of democratic hopelessness.

I am 1/15th Irish, but you can't tell I am. The PTP are 1/15th democratic and you can't tell they are to.

Reform before elections.

[Spalpeen]

I wonder if someone explained to "Democrat Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut" that if a party does not contend two elections in a row the party gets dissolved under the election laws.

I guess that they will argue that because the first election was decreed to be void it does not count as an election in the sight of the election law.

.

If they have a Trades Descriptions Act in Thailand, they'd be breaking that too by calling themselves politicians.

[HonestQuietBob]

This will be viewed as controversial by many. And it will be discussed by historians for years. But I for one am certain that the Democrats have made the right decision here. Reform will never take place if Thaksin knows he will be able to secure a forum. He thinks he has the Democratic party cornered - that all he has to do is call another election, get another family member in there, and everything remains the same. He's counting on the fact that the Democratic party will have to contest the election or face dissolution. By deliberately falling on the sword, the Democratic party is willing to face dissolution if it can bring about a period of reform. This may or may not work. But it's the best shot there is. And it is the right thing to do. The Democratic party of Thailand is Thailand's oldest party. This is a principled stand. It means that if it succeeds, the Democratic party's last act will have pointed a way to a new era in Thai politics where people like Thaksin can no longer control it.

Aslong as your certain mate, because that's all that counts

[DirtFarmer]

This will be viewed as controversial by many. And it will be discussed by historians for years. But I for one am certain that the Democrats have made the right decision here. Reform will never take place if Thaksin knows he will be able to secure a forum. He thinks he has the Democratic party cornered - that all he has to do is call another election, get another family member in there, and everything remains the same. He's counting on the fact that the Democratic party will have to contest the election or face dissolution. By deliberately falling on the sword, the Democratic party is willing to face dissolution if it can bring about a period of reform. This may or may not work. But it's the best shot there is. And it is the right thing to do. The Democratic party of Thailand is Thailand's oldest party. This is a principled stand. It means that if it succeeds, the Democratic party's last act will have pointed a way to a new era in Thai politics where people like Thaksin can no longer control it.

I can't buy the Thaksin argument or ridding them ....as the path to reform... the kind of reform that is necessary here goes way deeper than Thaksin it goes to Privy, former premiers, it goes to the other mega millionaires that have been gutting this place for ages... long before Thaksin... this constant harping on Thaksin as the root of all evil and if his power and influence is quashed... all will be well in the LOS...? Not even close.. All that position does is facilitate the current power grab through un elected means... by providing a demon character to propagate in the eyes of the masses that refuse to peruse history...have been taught not to study... who are caught up in hi-so trend and conspicuous consumption and are obsessed with having the most "hip" selfies to publish on internet outlets to twitter and FB about like so many golden baubles while taking solace in anything said that opposes the "demon" is the way forward...if we get rid of the demon the sun will shine and the grass will grow and there won't be anything but smiles and face again...hogwash... get a real look at Thai History from outside the blurbs offered by Thai media.. from all sources possible and maybe get a realistic overview.. the refusal to see that a much bigger game is in play here plays right into the hands of the bettors ...'course this is just my opinion... but I took the blinders off a long time ago...

[JAG]

This will be viewed as controversial by many. And it will be discussed by historians for years. But I for one am certain that the Democrats have made the right decision here. Reform will never take place if Thaksin knows he will be able to secure a forum. He thinks he has the Democratic party cornered - that all he has to do is call another election, get another family member in there, and everything remains the same. He's counting on the fact that the Democratic party will have to contest the election or face dissolution. By deliberately falling on the sword, the Democratic party is willing to face dissolution if it can bring about a period of reform. This may or may not work. But it's the best shot there is. And it is the right thing to do. The Democratic party of Thailand is Thailand's oldest party. This is a principled stand. It means that if it succeeds, the Democratic party's last act will have pointed a way to a new era in Thai politics where people like Thaksin can no longer control it.

Nonsense. They have calculated that they can't win, and are trying for power in an appointed government.

Its about selecting a government through election or by appointment by the establishment. The establishment have never given a toss for the views of the electorate, and the Democratic Party clearly have decided they don't either.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[dinger]

"However, the Prime Minister and her government should not be the ones hosting the general election because they are part of the conflict, said Chavanond"

.May I dare ask a question here: in accordance with the constitution, who is responsible for hosting the general election?

[siamtwin]

Can Putin please annex Thailand?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[h90]

Yingluck has to accept the courts rulings.

If she does not want to accept the courts, we better let everybody free from the prisons, because no law should be for the people as even the PM doesn't accept them.

actually they just tried that....amnesty law would have killed 25.000 cases many corruption

[h90]

Can Putin please annex Thailand?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

He could do on Wednesday, on Wednesday the brass plays golf....

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Can Putin please annex Thailand?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

They have already annexed Pattaya and Phuket what more parts of Thailand would you like to see them in?

[antimedia]

I wonder if someone explained to "Democrat Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut" that if a party does not contend two elections in a row the party gets dissolved under the election laws.

I guess that they will argue that because the first election was decreed to be void it does not count as an election in the sight of the election law.

Why do you silly little red people never read a story before you comment. Is it the slash and burn mentality.

"The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

[Mentors]

Who wants to play against a team that wins by cheating every time.

Who wants to play against a team that wins every time?

Wins by cheating every time!

Cheating.........

image.jpg

More cheating........

image.jpg

Shooting voters........

image.jpg

........sorry, what was your point again?

+ 1

[Thailand]

This will be viewed as controversial by many. And it will be discussed by historians for years. But I for one am certain that the Democrats have made the right decision here. Reform will never take place if Thaksin knows he will be able to secure a forum. He thinks he has the Democratic party cornered - that all he has to do is call another election, get another family member in there, and everything remains the same. He's counting on the fact that the Democratic party will have to contest the election or face dissolution. By deliberately falling on the sword, the Democratic party is willing to face dissolution if it can bring about a period of reform. This may or may not work. But it's the best shot there is. And it is the right thing to do. The Democratic party of Thailand is Thailand's oldest party. This is a principled stand. It means that if it succeeds, the Democratic party's last act will have pointed a way to a new era in Thai politics where people like Thaksin can no longer control it.

The Democratic Party is going the way of the Dodo and the only chance they have got of going down in history is as a party that made a mockery of the word democracy.

Create a real manifesto, get a real leader, sell that manifesto and the leader to the people. Put it to the vote.

But I really don't see they have the balls for that, just tears behind closed doors.

[Morch]

"If the court decides to nullify the said election and the government proceeds to hold another general election immediately, the public and the Democrat in particular will not be able to accept that."

Excuse me Mr. Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut...but you do not speak for the public...only a small faction of the public...

Both sides tend to over-use the "we speak for the Thai people" stance.

That said, the Democrat party won 35% (if I remember correctly) of the popular vote - hardly a small faction (or fraction, whichever you meant).

[Just1Voice]

Who wants to play against a team that wins by cheating every time.

Jeeze, I think so of you people never read anything except TV. Apparently you DON'T read mainstream media news, or you would have noticed the article by Korn - Prominent Democrat, who clearly stated in an interview that in the last General Election (when Yingluck became PM), that the Democratic Party spent MORE that PTP on vote buying, and then further stated that vote buying had NO BEARING on the outcome of the election.

And apparently you are blind to the fact that ALL political parties, since the Absolute Monarchy was abolished, have engaged in vote buying. Some just did it better than others.

Try reading more and expanding your mind, and get it out of that Yellow Trench you're stuck in.

[robblok]

I rather had they would go for an ellection (as i think they have a chance to win) But they seem to they stick with their principles. Nothing has changed since the last election. Reform first then ellections. If they give in now then they could have run the first ellection too. So in a way they are right this is the only way to force changes.

[ianf]

Why would they want to take part in an election?

Show again they are unable to win a majority? Embarrassing. They need ot get back to their bread and butter - Unelected Peoples Councils for all

Go Team Yelllow

Fight Team Yellow

Win Team Yellow

Oh my goodness! Don't you understand? It's got nothing to do with being unable to win a majority. It has a lot to do with democracy and a an election that is run in a fair and open manner. We have seen all the intimidation, lies and manipulation that Thaksin and his parties can bring to the table. The Democrats are asking for a free and fair election that benefits the country as a whole. They don't want Thaksin's brand of money politics. They don't want Jaturporn's brand of intimidatory elections.The Dems have NEVER suggested an Unelected People's Council. This was suggestion and an idea put forward by Suthep and his backers. It wasn't an idea to run the country for the long term: rather it was a suggestion made to give the body politic chance to reform itself and hold elections that were believable.

[Morch]

Lets say the Democrat party participates, and unlikely as it sounds, wins or at least wins enough votes to head a coalition.

Just wondering: how do you think the the PTP and/or the red shirts would react?

Given their attitude toward the EC, Courts etc...I'm not sure this will go down well. Especially not a scenario in which the PTP is the largest party, but the Democrats head a majority coalition.

[northernjohn]

As is your prerogative...refuse to be a part of the thing your name embodies..."The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

Great! no surprise here... ( but not too smart I fear in the long run)...but ..Hey now you can start a new Party..The PRP Party... The Popcorn Reform Party...just be kind enough to not use Democratic again for it flies full in the face of what you are all about.. I had such high hopes for some kind of political outreach...six months ago when the rumblings began...some kind of build.... constructive build on what you found as weaknesses in the opposition...and you had a great opportunity.. to exploit it through political outreach, populist education and had you been concerned at all about reform... offered it then... and given the people you need to win an alternative...but instead you let a genie out of the bottle and it became enamored with its power of obstruction rather than construction...what a sham... lost faith in all parties here now...especially disappointed in the Democrats...but alas your claim to reform...that was and will never be the intention..as reform is the farthest thing from the Agenda.... same as it was last time around.....a paper tiger ...Democratic Reform...oxymoron...

Blah BlahBlah

For the Democrats to enter it they would be sanctioning the present system.

They unlike the current government are willing to dissolve rather than condone the present corrupt ridden party in power.

If the PTP are interested in bettering Thailand how do they expect to do it when they use the treasury for their personal bank account.

Every single one of the Democrats are willing to put their political life on the line for Thailand. Name one PTP

[northernjohn]

Yingluck has to accept the courts rulings.

If she does not want to accept the courts, we better let everybody free from the prisons, because no law should be for the people as even the PM doesn't accept them.

I can hardly wait to hear the government fans deny the logic of that. If they do they will be using unrelated factsx. This is 2014 not 1997 it is a 2014 problem. Respond to it if you can with the reality of today.

[HonestQuietBob]

Lets say the Democrat party participates, and unlikely as it sounds, wins or at least wins enough votes to head a coalition.

Just wondering: how do you think the the PTP and/or the red shirts would react?

Given their attitude toward the EC, Courts etc...I'm not sure this will go down well. Especially not a scenario in which the PTP is the largest party, but the Democrats head a majority coalition.

Their only choice would be to accept it and from everything in their history one would expect that's exactly what they would do.

Only one side in this show has form when it comes to refusing to accept election outcomes.

Guess we'll know for sure when the Democrats get their act together and actually win an election - about 20 years from now probably (50 if they keep up with all the coup BS) .

[tilac2]

God what a tosser this Abhisit is! No wonder the country is in such a mess with losers like this. What's more, it's lucky there's not a war on, otherwise he'd be clinging to his Mama's skirts. A total, cringeing coward!

If you want confirmation of what a boring old fart he is, just try to read his boring writings: I guarantee you'll be fast asleep before the first chapter.

Try for example his recent book "The Simple Truth" - all about how he didn't really kill all those protesters. Aw, sweet! Yawn, snooze snooze snooze...

Or try his:

"Summary of the performance of the cabinet..." (2010) - this is the most boring report on a government (his pathetic government) that I have ever seen. Try to stay awake beyond the 2nd page. I couldn't. By the way, that was the government where he increased the budget for the army and prosecuted many more people for lese majeste etc etc etc. Sounds as if you could tell an interesting story there ... unless you're a boring old fart!!

Then contrast the latter boring-ologue with Thaksin's report on his first years in office called, "4 years of repair for all Thais and Thailand..." (2004). This is more like it: a clearly written and presented report, showing how well the Thaksin government actually performed in those 4 years. A bit propagandistic, but basically factual, and with loads of statistics, pictures and indeed idealism. They kept their 3 basic promises, and that's why the Isaan people respected them.

Okay, so Thaksin made himself a bit richer while he was running Thailand. Big deal! He also made his fellow citizens a lot richer. I'm not sure I'd say "bring him back", but I would say, let's give credit to him for opening up Thailand to democracy, and then lets get some new politicians from Isaan to keep his legacy alive. Thaksin clearly deserves a statue for his genuine achievements. It should be erected in Chiang Mai or Isaan - and copies could be thrown over the garden fence of boring old Abhisit.

[northernjohn]

the democrates are as stupid as the hole establishement, they did not learn the lesson. they should fight to win the next elections, their general meaninig of we will loose anyway is a very bad thing...only looosers say in advance we will loose...but they could win if they really would believe in winning

Have you been asleep or out of touch with reality.

This is not about who wins the election this is about reforming the government. Are you standing up for the PTP when they cheat farmers out of their money when they promise taxa rebates when they promise pads for every one in school and deliver a few and the ones they deliver are no good. Are you for crooked elections. These are the things that the anti government protestors are trying to change. Then have an election.

Wake up and ask your self why the PTP does not want an election over haul before the election? The answer is so simple I will not insult your intelligence by pretending you don't know and have to be told.

The Democrats are fighting to reform a government that allows that. Reform the government and they have no fear of the election. It will be an honest one and they will accept that. to let the PTP carry on is just supporting their illegal ways.

Thailand is sliding down hill each year it gets more corrupt. With the ASEAN coming up I for one would thing they would like Thailand to be a more honest country. Corruption is in every country. But look at Singapore and how little it has and yet how well it is doing.

[metisdead]

Trolling nonsense posts and replies have been removed as well as an inflammatory post.

[northernjohn]

Who wants to play against a team that wins by cheating every time.

At last a clear statement justifying the Democrat boycott (though I think a misguided one).

To make sense of it at least two questions need to be answered:

1.How was the last election not valid and fairly conducted especially since all independent observers were satisfied?

2.What precise reforms need to be put in place to make the next one fair?

I'm not unsympathetic to a national effort across parties to reform the system and tackle corruption, but for clarity's sake there needs to be an understanding on an improved electoral process.

If the response is just the usual claptrap (Thaksin buying farmers votes etc) we can only conclude the Democrat boycott is for the reason they are unelectable.

And in that case the advice should be ditch the incompetent leadership, cut ties with the gangster Suthep, tell the Bangkok middle class that they cannot have the casting vote, develop some policies attractive to the Thai people as a whole.. and then win an election.

How about no vote buying by any one? Buy one vote automatic two years in jail. Sell your vote 5 times the amount for a fine. How about freedom to choose who you vote for? This means no one standing over you to make sure you vote the way the village head man tells you to. How about a secure way to hold the ballots until they are counted?

Now give us your PTP claptrap why we can't do that.

[DirtFarmer]

As is your prerogative...refuse to be a part of the thing your name embodies..."The Democratic Party, in that case, would not participate in the new general election even if the party had to be dissolved as stipulated in the constitution. It will instead find another way to reform the country."

Great! no surprise here... ( but not too smart I fear in the long run)...but ..Hey now you can start a new Party..The PRP Party... The Popcorn Reform Party...just be kind enough to not use Democratic again for it flies full in the face of what you are all about.. I had such high hopes for some kind of political outreach...six months ago when the rumblings began...some kind of build.... constructive build on what you found as weaknesses in the opposition...and you had a great opportunity.. to exploit it through political outreach, populist education and had you been concerned at all about reform... offered it then... and given the people you need to win an alternative...but instead you let a genie out of the bottle and it became enamored with its power of obstruction rather than construction...what a sham... lost faith in all parties here now...especially disappointed in the Democrats...but alas your claim to reform...that was and will never be the intention..as reform is the farthest thing from the Agenda.... same as it was last time around.....a paper tiger ...Democratic Reform...oxymoron...

Blah BlahBlah

For the Democrats to enter it they would be sanctioning the present system.

They unlike the current government are willing to dissolve rather than condone the present corrupt ridden party in power.

If the PTP are interested in bettering Thailand how do they expect to do it when they use the treasury for their personal bank account.

Every single one of the Democrats are willing to put their political life on the line for Thailand. Name one PTP

Hey this is their system the one they use or misuse at will...not mine ... there is plenty wrong with all parties here...all of them... but you see... that is the problem... they are all facilitated by a problem that is way bigger than one or two elections... or even the political process if you will... their "brand of politics" is just that theirs... their brand of "Democracy" is just that.... theirs... and has never included any one else either ...they are mired in a disease which will take decades to recover from ( if at all) so for me or you to bandy about here and now ...change this party or change to that that is merely conjecture... it will be up to all Thais to decide personally through a look in the mirror as to what is acceptable and what isn't but if you still feel like pitting party vs party is a viable solution it reeks of the refusal to understand what you call blah blah blah.....you are missing a huge chunk of reality... to think that any corruption will be eradicated by Suthep or the Dems is misguided at best...reform because the ruling party changes...? is a poorly conceived notion...one rooted in a rather shallow view of a much bigger game... don't you get it at all...? Keep your eye on the obvious and focus on that and keep beating that horse and the masses will ignore the subliminal and don't be surprised when that reality smacks you in the face ... I don't support either faction...but now... again disappointed by the rather childish (again) refusal to take part in a system that they themselves have embraced and modified over the years.. they ( DEMS) know that their only play here now after all this is to continue to demonize their target... and implicitly support Sutheps brand of dogma in the hopes that they can find some self satisfaction in the end result... I repeat hopes... not sure they will ever get it... but can bet ya this... if the Dems get their military/judicial ushering back into power... and the trampling of the political process... the changes/reforms being lauded now.. will not be...nor will it be Democratic...not by a long shot...Cheers

Edited March 20, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[jonclark]

God what a tosser this Abhisit is! No wonder the country is in such a mess with losers like this. What's more, it's lucky there's not a war on, otherwise he'd be clinging to his Mama's skirts. A total, cringeing coward!

If you want confirmation of what a boring old fart he is, just try to read his boring writings: I guarantee you'll be fast asleep before the first chapter.

Try for example his recent book "The Simple Truth" - all about how he didn't really kill all those protesters. Aw, sweet! Yawn, snooze snooze snooze...

Or try his:

"Summary of the performance of the cabinet..." (2010) - this is the most boring report on a government (his pathetic government) that I have ever seen. Try to stay awake beyond the 2nd page. I couldn't. By the way, that was the government where he increased the budget for the army and prosecuted many more people for lese majeste etc etc etc. Sounds as if you could tell an interesting story there ... unless you're a boring old fart!!

Then contrast the latter boring-ologue with Thaksin's report on his first years in office called, "4 years of repair for all Thais and Thailand..." (2004). This is more like it: a clearly written and presented report, showing how well the Thaksin government actually performed in those 4 years. A bit propagandistic, but basically factual, and with loads of statistics, pictures and indeed idealism. They kept their 3 basic promises, and that's why the Isaan people respected them.

Okay, so Thaksin made himself a bit richer while he was running Thailand. Big deal! He also made his fellow citizens a lot richer. I'm not sure I'd say "bring him back", but I would say, let's give credit to him for opening up Thailand to democracy, and then lets get some new politicians from Isaan to keep his legacy alive. Thaksin clearly deserves a statue for his genuine achievements. It should be erected in Chiang Mai or Isaan - and copies could be thrown over the garden fence of boring old Abhisit.

The only problem is whilst you say Abhisit is a boring fart, Taksin was common crook. I'd take boring over criminality as a desirable trait for PM anyday.

I personally think all statues should be dedicated to Taksin - In the Anglo-Saxon sense of 'dedicate'.

[northernjohn]

"However, the Prime Minister and her government should not be the ones hosting the general election because they are part of the conflict, said Chavanond."

Democrat Party? What are they on - is he telling them they can't participate in the election because they happen to be the caretaker government?

Incredibly stupid statements and action.

Why compete in an election when the ruling party refuses to accept the verdicts of courts and independent agencies? The Dems have always respected their position of being the opposition. But with the present group of (self exiled) criminals running the country, what would it be worth to be an opposition party?

There is no reasonable answer to that IF you believe the courts and independant agencies are just that, independant. To my mind the courts and independant agencies deserve the respect they are being accorded.

I tried very hard to ignore your babble. But when you open the door and say it is in your mind that the courts do not deserve respect. Well Logic in your mind would be like a stranger in a strange land. The government will ignore the courts verdicts (the government and your idea of honor) when it suits you and them but they have no problem using the same courts to get at the opposition.

Unbelievable

[ikke]

Khun Chavanond, very sensible statement.

Fight to the end, oust the Shinawatra clan, and then have real DEMOCRATIC elections.

Take another line , smoke again something strong or drink a bottle of whiskey, because stating something like this you must be out of your mind.