Court petition over Thawil's transfer 'aims to oust govt'

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Court petition over Thawil's transfer 'aims to oust govt'
The Nation


The People

Pheu Thai's Bhokin says anti-Yingluck ruling by court will violate charter

BANGKOK: -- The move to file a case over the ousting of Thawil Pliensri from his post at the National Security Council is just a conspiracy to topple caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and her Cabinet, Pheu Thai Party legal expert Bhokin Bhalakula said yesterday.

The petition lodged with the Constitutional Court to disqualify Yingluck was politically motivated and part of moves to replace her and her government with an unelected, unconstitutional one, he alleged.

The petition filed by the Group of 40 senators asking the court to consider dismissing the Cabinet and installation of a new premier and new Cabinet according to Articles 172 and 173 was very strange and obviously against the constitution, Bhokin said.

"The Constitutional Court does not have the jurisdiction to take up this case and if it rules in favour of the petition, then it would effectively terminate the Constitution and the verdict itself would be unconstitutional," he said.

"This is [part of] a judicial coup," he said, noting that Yingluck did not have a mandate after she dissolved the House of Representatives in December.

He also pointed out that she was no longer the prime minister, but just taking care of the government pending the formation of a new Cabinet.

Bhokin pointed out that the case was similar to the one filed against former premier Abhisit Vejjajiva in relation to his disqualification as an MP.

The court dismissed the case, saying that Abhisit was no longer an MP as the House had been dissolved.

Pheu Thai's legal expert Chusak Sirinil backed Bhokin, saying the move to install an unelected PM was not possible under the charter.

"If the Constitutional Court rules in favour of the senators, then I don't think this country would have a rule of law anymore. There would be no law, just the court," he said.

Senators' reasoning

Meanwhile, Senator Paiboon Nititawan, a member of the Group of 40, said if the court disqualified Yingluck, he would call on the Senate to appoint a replacement, acceptable to the anti-government People's Democratic Reform Committee.

"We will use the Constitution's Articles 172 and 173, which empowers the Senate to choose a new premier as our country does not have a House of Representatives at present," he said.

Under the Constitution, the House is authorised to vote for a new premier, who will then be escorted by the House Speaker to be endorsed by His Majesty the King.

Paiboon said owing to the lack of a Lower House, the Senate Speaker could do this job, noting that deputy Senate speaker Surachai Liengboonlertchai, who is now acting Senate speaker, could carry out the mission.

A new group of senators were voted in on Sunday and the Senate was in the process of selecting a new speaker. Paiboon said several people, such as Surachai and newly elected Senator Jaruvan Maintaka, were capable of the job.


-- The Nation 2014-04-05

[NongKhaiKid]

Another example of PT's ' we make the rules ' attitude.

They are the first to head to court over defamation and the last to accept rulings they don't like.

[binjalin]

no question... it's the Chang in the room

[chainarong]

One really doesn't know what planet the PTP are on, the job of a caretaker Prime Minister is just that , to say that this position dose not exist is just rubbish , the Caretaker government is there to care - take and no matter what slant you want to place on it if you don't think this is so , hand back your paypackets and allowances and anything else you have used since being in care - taker mode , as you are not entitled to anything under this interpretation.

[slapout]

The credibility of the pheu thai, so called legal experts, is suspect , at least. If they as compentent as they imagine themselves to be, this government would not be in the situation they find themselves,

If ever there was a real live walking example of who and how, not to interpert or handle legal questions the pheu thai legal advisor/team could be used as a international landmark

[pkspeaker]

Replacing the elected PM with an appointed PM from a body of half unelected senators, which is full of appointed senators-that were appointed by the previous coup, as were the 'judges' of the constitution court and NaCC.. is obviously an act against democracy, especially since the reason we don't have a lowerhouse(where most political power is supposed to emenate from) is because anti-democracy 'protesters' sabotaged the election with the help of state officials like the EC..

and then to give the 'appointed' PM full powers? and then Suthep and his band of anti-democracy facists insist they will continue to sabotage the next election, all they have to do it prevent voting in a few democrat strongholds and the 'appointed' PM goes on indefinently !

This is an outrage and we can see how this country is actually ruled by a military junta that uses 'judges' as dictators, this country is going to have a militant backlash to this dictatorship.

[northernjohn]

Replacing the elected PM with an appointed PM from a body of half unelected senators, which is full of appointed senators-that were appointed by the previous coup, as were the 'judges' of the constitution court and NaCC.. is obviously an act against democracy, especially since the reason we don't have a lowerhouse(where most political power is supposed to emenate from) is because anti-democracy 'protesters' sabotaged the election with the help of state officials like the EC..

and then to give the 'appointed' PM full powers? and then Suthep and his band of anti-democracy facists insist they will continue to sabotage the next election, all they have to do it prevent voting in a few democrat strongholds and the 'appointed' PM goes on indefinently !

This is an outrage and we can see how this country is actually ruled by a military junta that uses 'judges' as dictators, this country is going to have a militant backlash to this dictatorship.

this country is going to have a militant backlash to this dictatorship.

the funny part is the militant backlash is coming from the dictator ship it's self.

[northernjohn]

BANGKOK: -- The move to file a case over the ousting of Thawil Pliensri from his post at the National Security Council is just a conspiracy to topple caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and her Cabinet, Pheu Thai Party legal expert Bhokin Bhalakula said yesterday.

Who cares as long as it gets rid of this bunch of self serving thieves.

[Gunna]

Replacing the elected PM with an appointed PM from a body of half unelected senators, which is full of appointed senators-that were appointed by the previous coup, as were the 'judges' of the constitution court and NaCC.. is obviously an act against democracy, especially since the reason we don't have a lowerhouse(where most political power is supposed to emenate from) is because anti-democracy 'protesters' sabotaged the election with the help of state officials like the EC..

and then to give the 'appointed' PM full powers? and then Suthep and his band of anti-democracy facists insist they will continue to sabotage the next election, all they have to do it prevent voting in a few democrat strongholds and the 'appointed' PM goes on indefinently !

This is an outrage and we can see how this country is actually ruled by a military junta that uses 'judges' as dictators, this country is going to have a militant backlash to this dictatorship.

Still anything is a better situation than the current one where if PTP remain in power, the coffers of Thailand will be empty and we will be like North Korea - Democratic elections and ruled by a family dynasty with state controlled courts spouting ridiculous propaganda every day through state controlled media

[WoopyDoo]

Replacing the elected PM with an appointed PM from a body of half unelected senators, which is full of appointed senators-that were appointed by the previous coup, as were the 'judges' of the constitution court and NaCC.. is obviously an act against democracy, especially since the reason we don't have a lowerhouse(where most political power is supposed to emenate from) is because anti-democracy 'protesters' sabotaged the election with the help of state officials like the EC..

and then to give the 'appointed' PM full powers? and then Suthep and his band of anti-democracy facists insist they will continue to sabotage the next election, all they have to do it prevent voting in a few democrat strongholds and the 'appointed' PM goes on indefinently !

This is an outrage and we can see how this country is actually ruled by a military junta that uses 'judges' as dictators, this country is going to have a militant backlash to this dictatorship.

What a load of old boll-ks

Talk about twisting the facts to suit your agenda.

They broke the law, and they are paying the price which is fully in line with democracy and the rule of law no matter what.

You can't come here and rant with such a weak argument, this forum is full of educated people who understand law and order, and what is right and wrong.

Can I suggest you find a Thai red shirt forum full of ignorant and uneducated members.... You would be a hero in their eyes. On here.... you just come across as a bit of a dick.

[Arjay]

Tit for tat. Wasn't Thawil's transfer also politically motivated?

[robblok]

no question... it's the Chang in the room

You never awnsered my question in the other topic. You were complaining about nepotism of a senator who employed her son.

Now YL is removing someone and replacing him with her family (not the case of the senator but I agreed it was nepotism and she should be punished). Now YL is facing the same and its all good.

You are talking about double standards but you seen quite apt at using them yourself.

[slapout]

woopy doo seems to be able to recongize what some call a spade, as a shovel. I agree, there are a lot of educated people, who post on TV, give their thoughts/opinions, and sometimes even give facts that support their posts. Then we read the pheu thai, parrots responses,which ignore the rule of law. ignore questions directed at their ramblings and go off on a tangent which has nothing to do with the op topic or responses to same.

It reminds me of the present government and the support/cronies they have left, when in the wrong, puff up and throw out old outdated election data/numbers which they themselves have rendered meaningless due to their broken promises, illegal attempts to circumvent due prosess, and outright theft from the majority of the population of Thailand.

[Scamper]

Pheu Thai have been so busy weaving their fiction that it is good to remember the facts :

The rule of law of any country is set forth by their constitution. Here, the constitution states quite clearly in Article 7, Article 172 and Article 173 that in the event of a parliamentary vacuum, the Senate can nominate a prime minister. The process described by the senator interviewed in this article is absolutely correct. That is the correct constitutionally procedure.

So keep in mind that anything that Pheu Thai says about this is absolutely false from every constitutional perspective. These are the facts.

" If the Constitutional Court rules in favour of the senators, then I don't think this country would have a rule of law anymore. There would be no law, just the court," he said. "

Of all the statements from Pheu Thai over the years, this is unquestionably the most flagrantly serious and dangerous one. What this Pheu Thai spokesman has just said is a criminal offense in any country. It is an act of defiance of the court. By those words he is already in defiance of the law. It is a threat, and the clearest form of intimidation on Constitutional Court judges. And the threat is that - from his point of view - that law itself would cease if the court were to give what he considers to be the " wrong " ruling. So - as Articles 7, 172, and 173 are clear - what this Pheu Thai spokesman is really saying is that a ruling constitutionally based on those articles would mean that law itself - in his view - would cease. Keep in mind that this petition to the Constitutional Court was filed in order to specifically consider this specific constitutional process that includes these articles. The Constitutional Court is entrusted to interpret these articles to the best of their abilities. What this Pheu Thai spokesman is trying to do is to tie their hands from considering these constitutional articles and rendering their best judgments based on them. It doesn't get any more serious than this. At this point, Pheu Thai have not only overstepped the line, they have vaulted over it in the most reckless and dangerous way possible.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Scamper

[GeorgeO]

Replacing the elected PM with an appointed PM from a body of half unelected senators, which is full of appointed senators-that were appointed by the previous coup, as were the 'judges' of the constitution court and NaCC.. is obviously an act against democracy, especially since the reason we don't have a lowerhouse(where most political power is supposed to emenate from) is because anti-democracy 'protesters' sabotaged the election with the help of state officials like the EC..

and then to give the 'appointed' PM full powers? and then Suthep and his band of anti-democracy facists insist they will continue to sabotage the next election, all they have to do it prevent voting in a few democrat strongholds and the 'appointed' PM goes on indefinently !

This is an outrage and we can see how this country is actually ruled by a military junta that uses 'judges' as dictators, this country is going to have a militant backlash to this dictatorship.

What a load of old boll-ks

Talk about twisting the facts to suit your agenda.

They broke the law, and they are paying the price which is fully in line with democracy and the rule of law no matter what.

You can't come here and rant with such a weak argument, this forum is full of educated people who understand law and order, and what is right and wrong.

Can I suggest you find a Thai red shirt forum full of ignorant and uneducated members.... You would be a hero in their eyes. On here.... you just come across as a bit of a dick.

Well put Sir. In a nutshell, they cry that it is "politically-motivated", when the facts actually show that it is motivated by evidence of criminal acts..! Case closed...!!

[noitom]

This entire Thai political thing is like the elephant in the room. The country is falling apart yet the newspaper never interviews the big Thai business people and the people in the know. It's as if the reality doesn't touch them.

[stickyrice2000]

This is the most ridiculous excuse to remove the prime minister. End of story.

[pkspeaker]

This is WRONG, there is no financial crises, the only stress the economy is facing is the result of the anti-gov. protests, otherwise the region is on the rebound, the money spent on the rice AND rubber subsidies is a small % of the national budget, the lyons share of govt spending continues to go into infrastructure projects, military and security spending..

there is no economic 'crises' that justifies forcing out a democratically elected government in favor of yet another military backed dictator.

Replacing the elected PM with an appointed PM from a body of half unelected senators, which is full of appointed senators-that were appointed by the previous coup, as were the 'judges' of the constitution court and NaCC.. is obviously an act against democracy, especially since the reason we don't have a lowerhouse(where most political power is supposed to emenate from) is because anti-democracy 'protesters' sabotaged the election with the help of state officials like the EC..

and then to give the 'appointed' PM full powers? and then Suthep and his band of anti-democracy facists insist they will continue to sabotage the next election, all they have to do it prevent voting in a few democrat strongholds and the 'appointed' PM goes on indefinently !

This is an outrage and we can see how this country is actually ruled by a military junta that uses 'judges' as dictators, this country is going to have a militant backlash to this dictatorship.

Still anything is a better situation than the current one where if PTP remain in power, the coffers of Thailand will be empty and we will be like North Korea - Democratic elections and ruled by a family dynasty with state controlled courts spouting ridiculous propaganda every day through state controlled media

[IMA_FARANG]

Pure hogwash.

Thawiil had a right to an appeal against his illegal transfer without due process .... and the government simply refused to allow that for their own personal political reasons.

Thawil therefore filed an appeal through the courts legally and his claim for reinstatement was upheld.

It was the government that violated the law by transferring Thawill without going through the correct legal process to transfer him, and then they caught doing it.

"Red Shirt Democracy" at it's best.

It was a demand straight from the "Dictator in the Desert" to his lackeys in Thailand.

[pkspeaker]

Oh yea right, Yingluck 'broke the law' when she was 'derelict in her duty', she then 'broke the law' again by transfering some idiot..

get this 'educated people' read the english news, the courts are widly considered to be ridiculously biased against the democratically elected governmet

THEY THREW OUT 1 PM FOR GOING ON A COOKING SHOW FOR FKS SAKE.

Replacing the elected PM with an appointed PM from a body of half unelected senators, which is full of appointed senators-that were appointed by the previous coup, as were the 'judges' of the constitution court and NaCC.. is obviously an act against democracy, especially since the reason we don't have a lowerhouse(where most political power is supposed to emenate from) is because anti-democracy 'protesters' sabotaged the election with the help of state officials like the EC..

and then to give the 'appointed' PM full powers? and then Suthep and his band of anti-democracy facists insist they will continue to sabotage the next election, all they have to do it prevent voting in a few democrat strongholds and the 'appointed' PM goes on indefinently !

This is an outrage and we can see how this country is actually ruled by a military junta that uses 'judges' as dictators, this country is going to have a militant backlash to this dictatorship.

What a load of old boll-ks

Talk about twisting the facts to suit your agenda.

They broke the law, and they are paying the price which is fully in line with democracy and the rule of law no matter what.

You can't come here and rant with such a weak argument, this forum is full of educated people who understand law and order, and what is right and wrong.

Can I suggest you find a Thai red shirt forum full of ignorant and uneducated members.... You would be a hero in their eyes. On here.... you just come across as a bit of a dick.

[pkspeaker]

Sure Ima-farang, 'red shirt democracy' is a democracy where the winner of the election, the winner that wins by a landslide, actually gets to run the country without being pushed out by the pad/pdrc anti-democracy facists and their stooges in the courts, which were placed there by the previous military coup.

[smutcakes]

Lucky with have a really neutral Senators like Mr Paiboon, I am sure we can trust him to make judgement on merit rather than political allegiance.

[Dogmatix]

It was made very clear at the time that Thawil would use the full extent of the law to push for a reversal of the unlawful decision to transfer him to an inactive position. I remember journalists pointing out that this case had the potential to topple the entire cabinet, if he was successful and the government was still in place by then. The government chose to ignore all the warnings and went ahead anyway because they were so desperate to give Thaksin's brother-in-law the police chief's job he so badly wanted.

The high stakes gambler in Dubai decided to take the risk and have his own way but lost again. Same thing happened with the rice pledging, infrastructure borrowing bill, the amnesty bill etc, etc. Do you notice a pattern here? Every time he loses another bet, there is never any downside to him personally. Its called gambling with OPM - other people's money (and lives).

[stickyrice2000]

It is understandable that he is reinstated back to his position plus the compensation. To the remove the prime minister from a position for this reason, I think Thai laws have serious problems. Look at it in business context. Have you seen a manager go to court to remove a CEO?

[Melyn]

This message from the caretaker government is purely an attempt to shift the focus from its wrongdoing and to seek to blame the court for actions it will not undertake.

If only the rice scam accounts were as transparent.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SamMunich]

Saturday and Sunday please no criticism of Yingluck, the Government or the Redheads. All defendors of those are absent from ThaiVisa as they have been called up as emergency fill-in for the millions of red shirts that were supposed to show up at Aksa Road but never materialised.

Edited April 5, 2014 by SamMunich

[ramrod711]

"If the Constitutional Court rules in favour of the senators, then I don't think this country would have a rule of law anymore. There would be no law, just the court," he said.

PTP has acted like there were no laws, that applied to them at least, since they were elected. This is not a new sentiment that we are seeing here.

[Dogmatix]

It is understandable that he is reinstated back to his position plus the compensation. To the remove the prime minister from a position for this reason, I think Thai laws have serious problems. Look at it in business context. Have you seen a manager go to court to remove a CEO?

That is as may be but it was pointed out to the government at the time that the removal might lead to the ouster of the entire cabinet and they chose to go ahead and take the risk anyway. They could have just made Wichean an advisor to the PM instead and de-emphasised the S-G of the NSC, as they are doing now, but that wasn't good enough for them. Now they should man up and accept the consequences of their foolish actions.

Thawil had to take the government to the Administrative Court to get reinstated and it took him two and a half years because the government refused to accept the original verdict and appealed the lower court's decision in May 2013. The Administrative Court is the correct forum for citizens who have a dispute with the government. The fact that a group of senators chose to pick up the ball and run with it from there is nothing to do with him.

[northernjohn]

no question... it's the Chang in the room

You never awnsered my question in the other topic. You were complaining about nepotism of a senator who employed her son.

Now YL is removing someone and replacing him with her family (not the case of the senator but I agreed it was nepotism and she should be punished). Now YL is facing the same and its all good.

You are talking about double standards but you seen quite apt at using them yourself.

Ran out of likes but you have him pegged. If he had a shirt it would defiantly be red.

Red the national color for self serving individuals.

[citizen33]

You can't come here and rant with such a weak argument, this forum is full of educated people who understand law and order, and what is right and wrong.

Can I suggest you find a Thai red shirt forum full of ignorant and uneducated members.... You would be a hero in their eyes. On here.... you just come across as a bit of a dick.

Anybody thinking that all the educated people are on the yellow side just needs to read this forum: I'd be intrigued to find out whether even one 'expert' voicing his/ her opinion above has had any formal education in law. I suspect that debates about the separation of powers, constitutionality after the abrogation of a constitution, juridification, etcetera, won't be very familiar to most.