Why do so many TV users dislike Thailand so much and yet stay?

[benalibina]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Half true, but the other side you avoid is the Thai side, unless you mean to imply that they are perfect.

Our views are shaped by our experiences. A man who, say, interacts with mostly poorer Thais from upcountry may come to one conclusion about Thais and Thai culture while I might, through my heavy interaction (via work) with mostly fairly well off and well connected Thai Chinese come to totally different conclusion.

I can tell you that within the part of the society I mostly am forced to interact with, there is a rather real racism against all foreigners and particularly us "Farangs". It's very real, and if you know intimately farangs to work at this level in Thailand, you might find that many of them will agree. Again, mostly it's Thai Chinese who are more Chinese than Thai and will make great effort to let you know that. Most people who are well read and well traveled know the Chinese are fairly racist and lack what most of us would call ethics. So, no wonder that after coming here and establishing themselves over several generations that they are naturally opposed to these farangs coming in and having any influence.

It's "Thailand for the Thai Chinese, we mean All Thai People" That's the deal. They would see us a threat to their little kingdom paradise they've built. And, they create all types of obstacles for us (and other foreigners) here. And, unless you're one of those farangs who is totally clueless and takes all the fake smiles to be genuine (I've know plenty of expats like this), then surely you've observed a palpable, just beneath the surface displeasure from Thais toward us? Surely you will have noticed how the legal system is clearly in the favor of Thais and not here to protect foreigners and natives equally? Surely if you have done any significant business function or made significant investment here, you will have come across the endless minefields of locals who openly conspire to take advantage of foreigners here? Surely you will have noticed the immigration policies?

I mean I can understand a teacher or something who works up country with a bunch of poor, dark, always smiling Thais coming away from the experience thinking that he is admired. But, befriend some really successful guys here (say, guys who work or invest here on at least 200-300K Baht/month and up), and you might here about a VERY different Thailand.

Which is ?

Which is one the polar opposite from the one depicted in the tourism propaganda over the last half century.

If you dont care to really give an answer....fine with me....you stated something, i asked an explanation....thats it. Pity.

[SoiBiker]

You'd be rather naive to assume the entire country would resemble a tourist brochure - or that the entire population would welcome you with open arms.

Perhaps such unrealistic expectations are one of the reasons so many end up disillusioned?

[PaullyW]

benalibina,

I gave my answer. Perhaps you can clarify your question.

Also, cheer up. Go out, it's a nice day.

SoiBiker,

Yes, true. I did write "polar opposite", however. The emphasis is that it is nothing like the culture sold to the world. You can't say that is true to the same degree with regard to many other countries.

[benalibina]

benalibina,

I gave my answer. Perhaps you can clarify your question.

Also, cheer up. Go out, it's a nice day.

SoiBiker,

Yes, true. I did write "polar opposite", however. The emphasis is that it is nothing like the culture sold to the world. You can't say that is true to the same degree with regard to many other countries.

The very different Thailand.....which is ?

You have no way of knowing if it is a nice day here.

[PaullyW]

benalibina,

I gave my answer. Perhaps you can clarify your question.

Also, cheer up. Go out, it's a nice day.

SoiBiker,

Yes, true. I did write "polar opposite", however. The emphasis is that it is nothing like the culture sold to the world. You can't say that is true to the same degree with regard to many other countries.

The very different Thailand.....which is ?

You have no way of knowing if it is a nice day here.

Refer to my previous post for the answer.

Yes, I do.

Are you able to do anything else other than this tit for tat. Show some intelligence. Make a interesting post.

[benalibina]

benalibina,

I gave my answer. Perhaps you can clarify your question.

Also, cheer up. Go out, it's a nice day.

SoiBiker,

Yes, true. I did write "polar opposite", however. The emphasis is that it is nothing like the culture sold to the world. You can't say that is true to the same degree with regard to many other countries.

The very different Thailand.....which is ?

You have no way of knowing if it is a nice day here.

Refer to my previous post for the answer.

Yes, I do.

Are you able to do anything else other than this tit for tat. Show some intelligence. Make a interesting post.

Weatherman, when dealing with smart people like you, i know when to quit. Thanks for the non explanation.

I will google the thai touristbrochures from the last decades myself.

[SoiBiker]

I will google the thai touristbrochures from the last decades myself.

When you do, can you post up the pictures of smiling Chinese businessmen? I'd be interested to see them.

[susan d]

I love Thailand so I stay here. I know every country has its problem, so find a good thing there and compare which place do you want to stay.

[arjunadawn]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Half true, but the other side you avoid is the Thai side, unless you mean to imply that they are perfect.

I regret if I gave the impression I was does talking of Thai ppl; I was not. The object was bitter westerners.In fact, even if 1/2 of what I say is true it cannot be inferred I suggested a Pollyana "perfect" Thai. I think your points are spot on however. Many points are here and lots in Thailand conflict with my sensibilities too.

After this post I'll refrain from commenting on this subject coz some of you get it, others don't- there's some really mean SOBs on here and I guess I feel dirty reading some of the posts of disdain. That's all that gets me- the meanness. I guess the closest I've known such disdain is... Them and my ex wife- but I don't drop it into every observation (ok. Maybe the ex).

[Berkshire]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Half true, but the other side you avoid is the Thai side, unless you mean to imply that they are perfect.

Our views are shaped by our experiences. A man who, say, interacts with mostly poorer Thais from upcountry may come to one conclusion about Thais and Thai culture while I might, through my heavy interaction (via work) with mostly fairly well off and well connected Thai Chinese come to totally different conclusion.

I can tell you that within the part of the society I mostly am forced to interact with, there is a rather real racism against all foreigners and particularly us "Farangs". It's very real, and if you know intimately farangs to work at this level in Thailand, you might find that many of them will agree. Again, mostly it's Thai Chinese who are more Chinese than Thai and will make great effort to let you know that. Most people who are well read and well traveled know the Chinese are fairly racist and lack what most of us would call ethics. So, no wonder that after coming here and establishing themselves over several generations that they are naturally opposed to these farangs coming in and having any influence.

It's "Thailand for the Thai Chinese, we mean All Thai People" That's the deal. They would see us a threat to their little kingdom paradise they've built. And, they create all types of obstacles for us (and other foreigners) here. And, unless you're one of those farangs who is totally clueless and takes all the fake smiles to be genuine (I've know plenty of expats like this), then surely you've observed a palpable, just beneath the surface displeasure from Thais toward us? Surely you will have noticed how the legal system is clearly in the favor of Thais and not here to protect foreigners and natives equally? Surely if you have done any significant business function or made significant investment here, you will have come across the endless minefields of locals who openly conspire to take advantage of foreigners here? Surely you will have noticed the immigration policies?

I mean I can understand a teacher or something who works up country with a bunch of poor, dark, always smiling Thais coming away from the experience thinking that he is admired. But, befriend some really successful guys here (say, guys who work or invest here on at least 200-300K Baht/month and up), and you might here about a VERY different Thailand.

Your comments resemble that of a farang work colleague I used to know. The problem is many farangs in Thailand don't want to be treated as equals--they want to be special. They want to be treated as a VIP, a diva almost. From that perspective, they think that the indigenous folks should be so appreciative of their mere presence and listen to all of their words as if coming from the messiah.

So this farang work colleague of mine was very much like that. He became a disgruntled farang because he felt that no one listened to him. And of course, he blamed it on the Thai and Thai culture. But I knew this guy. He was incompetent and really didn't know what he was talking about. So the Thais weren't the problem, it was him. And he will never admit it.

Not saying you're like that. But you sound very much like him.

[beb]

I am yet to read a post on here of somebody who despises Thailand.

Pulling situations up and despising Thailand are 2 totally different things.

By "here" I assume you mean the TV forums. I typically arrive here if I have a question or if I'm following a news link. So I do find myself in different forums. And I see comments all the time by people who almost seem to hate all things Thai. I'm really surprised that you've never seen the same. I've only been using Tv about 5 or so years and my use is pretty lightl so I'm surprised I would run across those types of comments while you never do.

Maybe people are just more passionate about where to buy the best Khao Soi, get an external hard drive or find the best American style breakfast, the hard hitting kind of topics I typically come here for.

Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[thailiketoo]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Half true, but the other side you avoid is the Thai side, unless you mean to imply that they are perfect.

Our views are shaped by our experiences. A man who, say, interacts with mostly poorer Thais from upcountry may come to one conclusion about Thais and Thai culture while I might, through my heavy interaction (via work) with mostly fairly well off and well connected Thai Chinese come to totally different conclusion.

I can tell you that within the part of the society I mostly am forced to interact with, there is a rather real racism against all foreigners and particularly us "Farangs". It's very real, and if you know intimately farangs to work at this level in Thailand, you might find that many of them will agree. Again, mostly it's Thai Chinese who are more Chinese than Thai and will make great effort to let you know that. Most people who are well read and well traveled know the Chinese are fairly racist and lack what most of us would call ethics. So, no wonder that after coming here and establishing themselves over several generations that they are naturally opposed to these farangs coming in and having any influence.

It's "Thailand for the Thai Chinese, we mean All Thai People" That's the deal. They would see us a threat to their little kingdom paradise they've built. And, they create all types of obstacles for us (and other foreigners) here. And, unless you're one of those farangs who is totally clueless and takes all the fake smiles to be genuine (I've know plenty of expats like this), then surely you've observed a palpable, just beneath the surface displeasure from Thais toward us? Surely you will have noticed how the legal system is clearly in the favor of Thais and not here to protect foreigners and natives equally? Surely if you have done any significant business function or made significant investment here, you will have come across the endless minefields of locals who openly conspire to take advantage of foreigners here? Surely you will have noticed the immigration policies?

I mean I can understand a teacher or something who works up country with a bunch of poor, dark, always smiling Thais coming away from the experience thinking that he is admired. But, befriend some really successful guys here (say, guys who work or invest here on at least 200-300K Baht/month and up), and you might here about a VERY different Thailand.

I was eating lunch at Pomodoro at the All Seasons Place the other day. Thousands of people walking around and eating at the various restaurants (expensive) in the area. I saw some of the people you are talking about. Like, 2. So I figure you are talking about .002% of the population or less. Don't you find that stereotyping based on less than one percent of the population is ignorant (no offense).

[Kitsune]

Because with a bit of money all these hassles are easily avoidable.

How do you think Thai people do?

[chuang]

Probably no country wants them..not even their own..if they happen to have one...

[arjunadawn]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Half true, but the other side you avoid is the Thai side, unless you mean to imply that they are perfect.

Our views are shaped by our experiences. A man who, say, interacts with mostly poorer Thais from upcountry may come to one conclusion about Thais and Thai culture while I might, through my heavy interaction (via work) with mostly fairly well off and well connected Thai Chinese come to totally different conclusion.

I can tell you that within the part of the society I mostly am forced to interact with, there is a rather real racism against all foreigners and particularly us "Farangs". It's very real, and if you know intimately farangs to work at this level in Thailand, you might find that many of them will agree. Again, mostly it's Thai Chinese who are more Chinese than Thai and will make great effort to let you know that. Most people who are well read and well traveled know the Chinese are fairly racist and lack what most of us would call ethics. So, no wonder that after coming here and establishing themselves over several generations that they are naturally opposed to these farangs coming in and having any influence.

It's "Thailand for the Thai Chinese, we mean All Thai People" That's the deal. They would see us a threat to their little kingdom paradise they've built. And, they create all types of obstacles for us (and other foreigners) here. And, unless you're one of those farangs who is totally clueless and takes all the fake smiles to be genuine (I've know plenty of expats like this), then surely you've observed a palpable, just beneath the surface displeasure from Thais toward us? Surely you will have noticed how the legal system is clearly in the favor of Thais and not here to protect foreigners and natives equally? Surely if you have done any significant business function or made significant investment here, you will have come across the endless minefields of locals who openly conspire to take advantage of foreigners here? Surely you will have noticed the immigration policies?

I mean I can understand a teacher or something who works up country with a bunch of poor, dark, always smiling Thais coming away from the experience thinking that he is admired. But, befriend some really successful guys here (say, guys who work or invest here on at least 200-300K Baht/month and up), and you might here about a VERY different Thailand.

I was eating lunch at Pomodoro at the All Seasons Place the other day. Thousands of people walking around and eating at the various restaurants (expensive) in the area. I saw some of the people you are talking about. Like, 2. So I figure you are talking about .002% of the population or less. Don't you find that stereotyping based on less than one percent of the population is ignorant (no offense).

First, off only 50% of my observation is agreed to by the other poster; so if he wants to respond I'll take this 1/2 of the rebuttal :-)

Brother, do you realize the irony of your comment? You have lunch, make a speculative, subjective observation based solely on fancy, generalize it, use it as a standard by which to measure perceived stereotypes online, then offer it as the measure of your penetrating observation? Don't you find that stereotyping based on one upscale lunch is ignorant?

[ezzra]

We love Thailand, is just that we also love to winge and complain, make us feel

superior...

[thailiketoo]

I was eating lunch at Pomodoro at the All Seasons Place the other day. Thousands of people walking around and eating at the various restaurants (expensive) in the area. I saw some of the people you are talking about. Like, 2. So I figure you are talking about .002% of the population or less. Don't you find that stereotyping based on less than one percent of the population is ignorant (no offense).

First, off only 50% of my observation is agreed to by the other poster; so if he wants to respond I'll take this 1/2 of the rebuttal :-)

Brother, do you realize the irony of your comment? You have lunch, make a speculative, subjective observation based solely on fancy, generalize it, use it as a standard by which to measure perceived stereotypes online, then offer it as the measure of your penetrating observation? Don't you find that stereotyping based on one upscale lunch is ignorant?

It doesn't take a bucket of brains to realize most Thais walking around at lunch in Bangkok don't make 300,000 baht per month, 50% are common laborers. Try searching income inequality in Thailand. 2 percent of the population gains 80 percent of the GDP. http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/05/19/economy.thai.conflict/

But I'll play along with your pedantic argument. OK, what percent of people eating lunch in Bangkok make less than 2 or 300,000 per month? My point is that a comment in this thread based on 1 or 2 percent of the population is ignorant. It is not ignorant to walk around Bangkok and notice less that 2% of the population is wearing decent shoes; it is obvious.

Edited May 1, 2014 by thailiketoo

[PaullyW]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Half true, but the other side you avoid is the Thai side, unless you mean to imply that they are perfect.

Our views are shaped by our experiences. A man who, say, interacts with mostly poorer Thais from upcountry may come to one conclusion about Thais and Thai culture while I might, through my heavy interaction (via work) with mostly fairly well off and well connected Thai Chinese come to totally different conclusion.

I can tell you that within the part of the society I mostly am forced to interact with, there is a rather real racism against all foreigners and particularly us "Farangs". It's very real, and if you know intimately farangs to work at this level in Thailand, you might find that many of them will agree. Again, mostly it's Thai Chinese who are more Chinese than Thai and will make great effort to let you know that. Most people who are well read and well traveled know the Chinese are fairly racist and lack what most of us would call ethics. So, no wonder that after coming here and establishing themselves over several generations that they are naturally opposed to these farangs coming in and having any influence.

It's "Thailand for the Thai Chinese, we mean All Thai People" That's the deal. They would see us a threat to their little kingdom paradise they've built. And, they create all types of obstacles for us (and other foreigners) here. And, unless you're one of those farangs who is totally clueless and takes all the fake smiles to be genuine (I've know plenty of expats like this), then surely you've observed a palpable, just beneath the surface displeasure from Thais toward us? Surely you will have noticed how the legal system is clearly in the favor of Thais and not here to protect foreigners and natives equally? Surely if you have done any significant business function or made significant investment here, you will have come across the endless minefields of locals who openly conspire to take advantage of foreigners here? Surely you will have noticed the immigration policies?

I mean I can understand a teacher or something who works up country with a bunch of poor, dark, always smiling Thais coming away from the experience thinking that he is admired. But, befriend some really successful guys here (say, guys who work or invest here on at least 200-300K Baht/month and up), and you might here about a VERY different Thailand.

I was eating lunch at Pomodoro at the All Seasons Place the other day. Thousands of people walking around and eating at the various restaurants (expensive) in the area. I saw some of the people you are talking about. Like, 2. So I figure you are talking about .002% of the population or less. Don't you find that stereotyping based on less than one percent of the population is ignorant (no offense).

Did I say all Thai people are one way or another? Or, did I say that a person's views are shaped by his experiences?

As far as what I find, I find that Thailand is a country where there are essentially two classes (for lack of a better term) of Thai people: one class is the very small minority that you've mentioned, and the other class is everyone else who wishes nothing more than to achieve the same status and very carefully emulate the first and whose members do their best to pretend to be a part of the first class. The point being that the culture of exclusion (us vs them) permeates Thai culture (whether seen or unseen behind smiling faces).

How was lunch at Pomodoro? I've been meaning to try it but have been traveling a lot lately.

Edited May 1, 2014 by PaullyW

[thailiketoo]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Half true, but the other side you avoid is the Thai side, unless you mean to imply that they are perfect.

Our views are shaped by our experiences. A man who, say, interacts with mostly poorer Thais from upcountry may come to one conclusion about Thais and Thai culture while I might, through my heavy interaction (via work) with mostly fairly well off and well connected Thai Chinese come to totally different conclusion.

I can tell you that within the part of the society I mostly am forced to interact with, there is a rather real racism against all foreigners and particularly us "Farangs". It's very real, and if you know intimately farangs to work at this level in Thailand, you might find that many of them will agree. Again, mostly it's Thai Chinese who are more Chinese than Thai and will make great effort to let you know that. Most people who are well read and well traveled know the Chinese are fairly racist and lack what most of us would call ethics. So, no wonder that after coming here and establishing themselves over several generations that they are naturally opposed to these farangs coming in and having any influence.

It's "Thailand for the Thai Chinese, we mean All Thai People" That's the deal. They would see us a threat to their little kingdom paradise they've built. And, they create all types of obstacles for us (and other foreigners) here. And, unless you're one of those farangs who is totally clueless and takes all the fake smiles to be genuine (I've know plenty of expats like this), then surely you've observed a palpable, just beneath the surface displeasure from Thais toward us? Surely you will have noticed how the legal system is clearly in the favor of Thais and not here to protect foreigners and natives equally? Surely if you have done any significant business function or made significant investment here, you will have come across the endless minefields of locals who openly conspire to take advantage of foreigners here? Surely you will have noticed the immigration policies?

I mean I can understand a teacher or something who works up country with a bunch of poor, dark, always smiling Thais coming away from the experience thinking that he is admired. But, befriend some really successful guys here (say, guys who work or invest here on at least 200-300K Baht/month and up), and you might here about a VERY different Thailand.

I was eating lunch at Pomodoro at the All Seasons Place the other day. Thousands of people walking around and eating at the various restaurants (expensive) in the area. I saw some of the people you are talking about. Like, 2. So I figure you are talking about .002% of the population or less. Don't you find that stereotyping based on less than one percent of the population is ignorant (no offense).

Did I say all Thai people are one way or another? Or, did I say that a person's views are shaped by his experiences?

As far as what I find, I find that Thailand is a country where there are essentially two classes (for lack of a better term) of people: one class is the very small minority that you've mentioned, and the other class is everyone else who wishes nothing more than to achieve the same status and very carefully emulate the first and whose members do their best to pretend to be a part of the first class.

How was lunch at Pomodoro? I've been meaning to try it but have been traveling a lot lately.

Lunch buffet 380 baht if I remember correctly. I can understand what you are saying but if your Thai experiences are shaped by people earning 300,000 per month it serves no useful purpose to post them on a public forum. I can understand as I was on my way to the Ambassadors residence across the street for our weekly bridge game and I associate with the same folks as you but who else would benefit?

Edited May 1, 2014 by thailiketoo

[PaullyW]

What I meant, in fact, was westerners who are making that much or who run with the Thai well heeled crowd.

Also, I edited my post a bit. Take a look.

The point is that what really effects some of us is this culture (from the top down) and some of our experiences might be very different (as one would expect).

Also, another interesting point -- on the topic of the OP -- is that there is another question one can ask.

One question blames the the immigrants/farangs/etc.: why are there so many [bad, weird, ill adapted, rude, etc.] farangs in Thailand?

Another question could blame the host country: why can't Thailand attract and retain [well adjusted, polite, smart, successful, culturally sensitive, younger, richer, etc.] farangs?

After all, we KNOW these farangs exist. I've known a decent few myself over the years. But, guess what? Most either left of their own accord or were forced or encouraged out. Most of these guys can't make it here? Why?

[SoiBiker]

Another question could blame the host country: why can't Thailand attract and retain [well adjusted, polite, smart, successful, culturally sensitive, younger, richer, etc.] farangs?

It can - I know plenty of people here that fit that description. They just don't post here, probably because it has a reputation as a den of whinging whoremongers.

[thailiketoo]

Another question could blame the host country: why can't Thailand attract and retain [well adjusted, polite, smart, successful, culturally sensitive, younger, richer, etc.] farangs?

It can - I know plenty of people here that fit that description. They just don't post here, probably because it has a reputation as a den of whinging whoremongers.

Here? Stick or the wood door place or lady****Pattaya place. But not here.

[SoiBiker]

We must not be reading the same forum.

[PaullyW]

Another question could blame the host country: why can't Thailand attract and retain [well adjusted, polite, smart, successful, culturally sensitive, younger, richer, etc.] farangs?

It can - I know plenty of people here that fit that description. They just don't post here, probably because it has a reputation as a den of whinging whoremongers.

Of course we have our own anecdotes suggesting there are some. However, I would have to strongly disagree with the implication that these chaps are the majority. There are places in Asia where these guys gravitate in higher as percentage numbers. Singapore is one, China is another. Japan, Korea ditto.

There's some reason why Thailand cannot attract and retain a high enough number of these kinds of people to change the (earned) perception. I suggest it's the Thai state and culture that should have some considerable blame placed with it.

This question, by the way, is one the apologists have no answer for.

And, I should add, to be clear, some percentage of these falangs would never be the type that Thais are trying to attract. But, I suspect many here might be quite different if they believed that the Thai state truly welcomed them and their families and treated them fairly under the law and had immigration policies that made them feel secure. Why learn a damn hard language, for instance, if you might not be admitted into the country next year?

[SoiBiker]

Another question could blame the host country: why can't Thailand attract and retain [well adjusted, polite, smart, successful, culturally sensitive, younger, richer, etc.] farangs?

It can - I know plenty of people here that fit that description. They just don't post here, probably because it has a reputation as a den of whinging whoremongers.

Of course we have our own anecdotes suggesting there are some. However, I would have to strongly disagree with the implication that these chaps are the majority. There are places in Asia where these guys gravitate in higher as percentage numbers. Singapore is one, China is another. Japan, Korea ditto.

There's some reason why Thailand cannot attract and retain a high enough number of these kinds of people to change the (earned) perception. I suggest it's the Thai state and culture that should have some considerable blame placed with it.

This question, by the way, is one the apologists have no answer for.

And, I should add, to be clear, some percentage of these falangs would never be the type that Thais are trying to attract. But, I suspect many here might be quite different if they believed that the Thai state truly welcomed them and their families and treated them fairly under the law and had immigration policies that made them feel secure. Why learn a damn hard language, for instance, if you might not be admitted into the country next year?

They're certainly the vast majority amongst the expats I know here. But then, I don't spend my time hanging around in the city's less salubrious bars.

[PaullyW]

Another question could blame the host country: why can't Thailand attract and retain [well adjusted, polite, smart, successful, culturally sensitive, younger, richer, etc.] farangs?

It can - I know plenty of people here that fit that description. They just don't post here, probably because it has a reputation as a den of whinging whoremongers.

Of course we have our own anecdotes suggesting there are some. However, I would have to strongly disagree with the implication that these chaps are the majority. There are places in Asia where these guys gravitate in higher as percentage numbers. Singapore is one, China is another. Japan, Korea ditto.

There's some reason why Thailand cannot attract and retain a high enough number of these kinds of people to change the (earned) perception. I suggest it's the Thai state and culture that should have some considerable blame placed with it.

This question, by the way, is one the apologists have no answer for.

And, I should add, to be clear, some percentage of these falangs would never be the type that Thais are trying to attract. But, I suspect many here might be quite different if they believed that the Thai state truly welcomed them and their families and treated them fairly under the law and had immigration policies that made them feel secure. Why learn a damn hard language, for instance, if you might not be admitted into the country next year?

They're certainly the vast majority amongst the expats I know here. But then, I don't spend my time hanging around in the city's less salubrious bars.

Fair enough. You have a unique experience.

But, for whatever reason, the Thai state has been beating on about attracting "higher end" and "better quality" foreigners for several decades now. So, it would appear that they are not satisfied with the current situation.

[thailiketoo]

Another question could blame the host country: why can't Thailand attract and retain [well adjusted, polite, smart, successful, culturally sensitive, younger, richer, etc.] farangs?

It can - I know plenty of people here that fit that description. They just don't post here, probably because it has a reputation as a den of whinging whoremongers.

Of course we have our own anecdotes suggesting there are some. However, I would have to strongly disagree with the implication that these chaps are the majority. There are places in Asia where these guys gravitate in higher as percentage numbers. Singapore is one, China is another. Japan, Korea ditto.

There's some reason why Thailand cannot attract and retain a high enough number of these kinds of people to change the (earned) perception. I suggest it's the Thai state and culture that should have some considerable blame placed with it.

This question, by the way, is one the apologists have no answer for.

And, I should add, to be clear, some percentage of these falangs would never be the type that Thais are trying to attract. But, I suspect many here might be quite different if they believed that the Thai state truly welcomed them and their families and treated them fairly under the law and had immigration policies that made them feel secure. Why learn a damn hard language, for instance, if you might not be admitted into the country next year?

They're certainly the vast majority amongst the expats I know here. But then, I don't spend my time hanging around in the city's less salubrious bars.

You guys are double negative ing me to death. Are the majority of people you both know mongers? Or what?

[beb]

Another question could blame the host country: why can't Thailand attract and retain [well adjusted, polite, smart, successful, culturally sensitive, younger, richer, etc.] farangs?

It can - I know plenty of people here that fit that description. They just don't post here, probably because it has a reputation as a den of whinging whoremongers.

Of course we have our own anecdotes suggesting there are some. However, I would have to strongly disagree with the implication that these chaps are the majority. There are places in Asia where these guys gravitate in higher as percentage numbers. Singapore is one, China is another. Japan, Korea ditto.

There's some reason why Thailand cannot attract and retain a high enough number of these kinds of people to change the (earned) perception. I suggest it's the Thai state and culture that should have some considerable blame placed with it.

This question, by the way, is one the apologists have no answer for.

And, I should add, to be clear, some percentage of these falangs would never be the type that Thais are trying to attract. But, I suspect many here might be quite different if they believed that the Thai state truly welcomed them and their families and treated them fairly under the law and had immigration policies that made them feel secure. Why learn a damn hard language, for instance, if you might not be admitted into the country next year?

It seems there's a huge misperception amongst some that difficulties as an expat are greater here than in other countries. Maybe I'm picking the wrong countries but in every other one I've lived in, there are issues such as limited rights and negative attitudes towards foreigners that make the Thailand issues pale in comparison. In fact, one of the reasons I'm here is that I find the people kinder than in my previous country.

In my original post I made it clear that I'm not a Thailand apologist but clearly others missed that or just didn't understand. Of course there are things I wish were different but I'm the jackass that pulled up roots and moved to the other side of the world. This is one of those "kick the tires before you buy" situations.

[SoiBiker]

Fair enough. You have a unique experience.

I have a 'unique experience' because I don't hang around with sexpats?

This is one of the things that's odd about this place. It's full of people who think the only reason to come here is to exploit the women.

[HardenedSoul]

Check expat forums in even other countries in Asia and you won't find as much of the same type of complaining.

Well, there's a fairly good reason for that.

The typical expat demographic in other Asian countries - with, perhaps, the exception of Cambodia - isn't comprised of emotionally dysfunctional males who've moved there to be closer to an inexhaustible supply of young prostitutes.

Hong Kong, Singapore, Seoul and others for sure have their own indigenous sex industries but none of them are as purpose-built, visible and competitively-priced as that which exists here.

You won't hear people on expat forums in those countries bitching about the rising cost of a greasy breakfast, the fact they're not wiped down with a cold towel the second they order a Singha and the fact they can't get a short time for the equivalent of £20 or $35 because they're not in those countries for VIP treatment and cheap pussy.

A large percentage of "expats" in Thailand can best be described as depraved, dysfunctional dinosaurs who came here specifically to see out the remainder of their lives either chasing low-rent sex with local, splay-toed tail and/or drinking their livers into oblivion.

These high-class guys blame Western women for being too independent and ambitious, Western governments for being too easy on immigration, liberals for being too PC . . . . well you get the point.

Everyone else is to blame; never them, never their choices.