Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[LivinLOS]

Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Why should being of 50 years of age or more entitle one to stay?

Surely more cash is better for Thailand than being a few months older ??

[LivinLOS]

Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Why should being of 50 years of age or more entitle one to stay?

Because that is the law,work around it if you can.

Yes, we know it IS the law.. The questions, why is that the law ?? Who does that benefit ?? Why does that help Thailand ??

Laws should have some logic or sense no ??

[balo]

I think what most of us stayiing in Thailand are worried about is the tourist visas. I know several people that stays in Thailand for 6 months during the winter months in Europe. They have bought a condo and stay from october until may. They use double entry tourist visas and then do a visarun to get another single or double entry tourist visa. We are talking about several hundred thousand people if not more than a million . If they will be refused entry to thalland after 3 months , with all their valuables left in their own condo in Thailand. If this happens all hell will break lose.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 17, 2014 by balo

[LivinLOS]

Plus, they won't issue tourist visas anymore if they see other tourist visas from the past, NO MATTER how long ago. This is my experience, and the experience of places which arrange visas.

Please confirm the exact circumstances for this, how many visa, how long ago, when, where, etc.

Let's put it this way, it's become a common enough experience for enough people, that now visa-run services will tell everyone this before they are even allowed to accompany the trip: if you have more than 2-3 tourist visas in your passport - regardless of how long ago, or how far apart they are - they will say no. Then reports from the people running those services became more extreme: if you've had 2. Sometimes varies a little. A newsletter from one of the services last year stated 'This is judged by a flip-through impression, regardless of the exact dates on former visas'. I experienced this myself at all consulates surrounding Thailand starting 2 years ago - and then finally at the beginning of last year, I found one place (Sawan Vega, beyond Vientienne) that allowed me one more (3rd) TR visa, with an 'extra fee' (as they put it) of an additional 1,000baht. After that, they also announced 'no more for anyone who has had more than 1...sometimes 2.'

This directly contradicts reports and posts here.

To be fair, you do hear lots of problems of people trying to either get multiple entry tourist visas or back to back type ones.

This difficulty in even getting them is why so many who travel a lot just reply on the exempt stamps.

[paz]

This directly contradicts reports and posts here.

Actually it confirms them perfectly. No Thai consulate in nearby countries issue more than 2 or 3 tourist Visa, at the most. In most case single entry. If you don't believe it try it yourself.

Edited May 17, 2014 by paz

[Pattaya46]

Yes, we know it IS the law.. The questions, why is that the law ?? Who does that benefit ?? Why does that help Thailand ??

Laws should have some logic or sense no ??

Many countries have special conditions for retired people. I suppose they think they are no-problem about money because most of them will have a pension or a similar regular revenue, and they don't need to work. Edited May 17, 2014 by Pattaya46

[LivinLOS]

Yes, we know it IS the law.. The questions, why is that the law ?? Who does that benefit ?? Why does that help Thailand ??

Laws should have some logic or sense no ??

Many countries have special conditions for retired people. I suppose they think they are no-problem about money because most of them will have a pension or a similar regular revenue, and they don't need to work.

Which is exactly why the discussion was that people under the age should be forced to show significant retirement income or assets.. And that this money was remitted into Thailand, and was decreasing and being spent in Thailand.

This way it shows the very thing that immigration wants to see, that these people are just 'spending money' here and not working.

[hyperdimension]

Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Why should being of 50 years of age or more entitle one to stay?

Because that is the law,work around it if you can.

Laws can be changed, and in this case it should. Age should not be the main deciding factor for a retirement visa; money and/or income should. At the moment, a 40 year-old having a net-worth of 2M USD would not qualify for a retirement visa, whereas a 50 year-old having a net worth of 30k USD, most if which would need to be deposited into a Thai bank account to meet the criteria for the retirement visa, would qualify. Which person should be more welcome to stay in Thailand?

Edited May 17, 2014 by hyperdimension

[Jiu-Jitsu]

What about those on SEMI-RETIREMENT (let's say, 6-9 months out of the year in Thailand) who for various reasons don't want the "commitments" of the retirement OA visa? These regulations affect them directly.

Now here's the thing, I would say that from ALL the classes of foreigners here, ie. tourists, working expats, illegals etc, the ones who contribute the most money into the Thai system (and take the least out of it) are these people exactly, the semi-retired here. They normally don't work here, but they spend lots of money here for long periods at a time (the very idea of semi-retirement).

The message to those people from immigration is they don't want them....because that takes a bit of grey matter...and Thai immigration heads hurt when they have to think.

People like me...Im far from old enough for a retirement visa, i'm not married to a thai, i don't have a company..

I come here from time to time, i use money, i return home to work from time to time, spend most of my time in my home country working and return to Thailand when i'm between jobs & waiting for new job.

In the future i see my self as unwanted in Thailand..

This is just nonsense. They are trying to weed out certain elements. Don't take it all so personally.

[chrisinth]

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"I work as a substitute teacher for AYC and travel all over the country to jobs"

That really says it all. If you are admitting to working here without a WP or extension of stay, you are likely one of the people the crackdown is targeting.

Where did he said, he worked without WP?! The WP ends when the jobs ends. Period. Then you got about 7 days to get out of the country.

I have six additional addresses in my work permit to cover my scope of work for the present company I am employed with. It is really no hardship to do this.

If he is employed by the one company, AYC, then they should cover his @ss when it comes to this. If the company can't do this, he shouldn't be working for them.

I know what you state happens, but there is no need for it.

[Concerned expat]

This is in the local Phuket newspaper this week.

PHUKET: A Russian national was denied entry into Thailand by Phuket International Airport Immigration officers on April 21 and detained until she could be deported the next morning.

Officers denied entry to Mariia Sgibneva, 26, more than a week before the May 3 crackdown on the three-visa-and-out rule aimed at stymieing international crime.

They stopped me at immigration, and ask me why I did so many visa runs. All my documents were okay. I returned from Russia in October, Ms Sgibneva explained to the Phuket Gazette on Wednesday. - See more at: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Russian-denied-entry-Phuket-International-Airport-visa/29391#sthash.p703K20v.dpuf

Newspaper just confirmed what looks like a clear stupidity or attempted extortion by Immigration Officials. Why anyone should have to show minimum 20,000 THB in cash during travel? No such requirement was officially published. Personally, I would not want to carry so much of Thai cash anyway and would keep couple hundred dollars instead in cash with more on credit or debit card.

So far, law enforcement agencies around the world advised to keep minimal amounts of cash whilst traveling. What would be the chance (0% - 10% - 50% - 90%) if I.O. have friends or relatives profiting from prostitution, pick pocket or bag snatching activities? Just give an estimate.

The whole story looks too suspicious. May be this victim could start a public campaign in Russia against Thai holidays. Who would be held liable with this outcome? Malaysia seems to be very keen in advertising tourism as growing business.

[edgarfriendly]

my experience today at poipet with a tour company was quite grim.

any more than 3 - 30 day stamps meant i got 7 days stamp including today - so i have until friday to arrange a 'proper' visa.

i have never worked here illegally, but i spend 6 days a week raising my daughter.

the ridiculous requirements for a 'proper' visa meant i preferred to use the 30 day stamp and be back home by 3pm...

now i'll be forced to carry a 3 year old to immigration either here or abroad to get a 60 day stamp...

the 'lady' at the desk seemed intent to get a rise from me, but failed more than once.

in the end she wailed 'Baiiiiiii' at me when i very politely asked if i could take a TM7 form that was sat in a pile on her desk.

they're simply retarded nazi wannabes, who use ANY opportunity to flex their little muscles and show 'power'

there is NO WAY i will have my daughter educated here to turn out like these freaks of humanity.

if i time it right she will be ready for (or done with) uni when im ready to officially 'retire' - if this shit-pit maintains any appeal in 2034

[brewsterbudgen]

So they have to look out in particular for Vietnamese (among others)? Are these the same Vietnamese who in 2015 when the AEC opens up, will have the right of abode and right to work in Thailand anyway?

Or does Thailand only see the opening of the AEC as the ability for its citizens to go and work in Singapore/Malaysia?

Dunno where you got the idea that the AEC is about free movement of peoples. It isn't.

In my experience that's the way it works now! You front up to the new ASEAN country they stamp your passport with a 3 month visa on arrival and if you find work they give you a 6 month visa extension! If that's not a virtual "free movement" then, pray tell, what is??

What you've posted is entirely untrue. ASEAN countries like Vietnam and Laos seem to be spefically targets of the tighter rules - no more 30-day in-out border runs. They have never been able to receive a 3 month visa on arrival.

[Concerned expat]

What about those on SEMI-RETIREMENT (let's say, 6-9 months out of the year in Thailand) who for various reasons don't want the "commitments" of the retirement OA visa? These regulations affect them directly.

Now here's the thing, I would say that from ALL the classes of foreigners here, ie. tourists, working expats, illegals etc, the ones who contribute the most money into the Thai system (and take the least out of it) are these people exactly, the semi-retired here. They normally don't work here, but they spend lots of money here for long periods at a time (the very idea of semi-retirement).

The message to those people from immigration is they don't want them....because that takes a bit of grey matter...and Thai immigration heads hurt when they have to think.

People like me...Im far from old enough for a retirement visa, i'm not married to a thai, i don't have a company..

I come here from time to time, i use money, i return home to work from time to time, spend most of my time in my home country working and return to Thailand when i'm between jobs & waiting for new job.

In the future i see my self as unwanted in Thailand..

This is just nonsense. They are trying to weed out certain elements. Don't take it all so personally.

Weeding out could be done on the streets as evidence could be collected on the spot by asking to provide appropriate permits. If this is an adverse racism against whites, let's see if Australia, Canada, EU, Russia or US would make some reciprocal actions for discrimination against their citizens. If some fuc-kng brain-dead would rudely accuse you of illegal work in their third world country, how would you feel???

[denby45]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

Yeah and I'm one of them. I work 35 on 28 off in Abu Dhabi. I fly straight to Thailand the same night I get off. My intention was to either rent an apartment/house or buy an apartment because Hotels are not my best or cheapest option. Looks like that is now too risky without a Hotel booking I could be turned around on the way in.

Den

[stevenl]

Please confirm the exact circumstances for this, how many visa, how long ago, when, where, etc.

Let's put it this way, it's become a common enough experience for enough people, that now visa-run services will tell everyone this before they are even allowed to accompany the trip: if you have more than 2-3 tourist visas in your passport - regardless of how long ago, or how far apart they are - they will say no. Then reports from the people running those services became more extreme: if you've had 2. Sometimes varies a little. A newsletter from one of the services last year stated 'This is judged by a flip-through impression, regardless of the exact dates on former visas'. I experienced this myself at all consulates surrounding Thailand starting 2 years ago - and then finally at the beginning of last year, I found one place (Sawan Vega, beyond Vientienne) that allowed me one more (3rd) TR visa, with an 'extra fee' (as they put it) of an additional 1,000baht. After that, they also announced 'no more for anyone who has had more than 1...sometimes 2.'

This directly contradicts reports and posts here.

To be fair, you do hear lots of problems of people trying to either get multiple entry tourist visas or back to back type ones.

This difficulty in even getting them is why so many who travel a lot just reply on the exempt stamps.

Which is different from what John is saying.

[stevenl]

This directly contradicts reports and posts here.

Actually it confirms them perfectly. No Thai consulate in nearby countries issue more than 2 or 3 tourist Visa, at the most. In most case single entry. If you don't believe it try it yourself.

Which is not what John is saying.

[Chiang2000]

Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Why should being of 50 years of age or more entitle one to stay?

Because that is the law,work around it if you can.

Yes, we know it IS the law.. The questions, why is that the law ?? Who does that benefit ?? Why does that help Thailand ??

Laws should have some logic or sense no ??

Just a simple question. Where, in anything Thai, does logic or sense come into it ?

[John1thru10]

sorry for the multiple posts! bad internet connection - clicking 'post' repeatedly in frustratiion 30 min ago...and surprise, it posted it many times. Sorry.

Edited May 17, 2014 by John1thru10

[samran]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

Yeah and I'm one of them. I work 35 on 28 off in Abu Dhabi. I fly straight to Thailand the same night I get off. My intention was to either rent an apartment/house or buy an apartment because Hotels are not my best or cheapest option. Looks like that is now too risky without a Hotel booking I could be turned around on the way in.

Den

You have a work contact stating your local and times of work. Plenty of people stay at residential addresses on arrival.

[paz]

This directly contradicts reports and posts here.

Actually it confirms them perfectly. No Thai consulate in nearby countries issue more than 2 or 3 tourist Visa, at the most. In most case single entry. If you don't believe it try it yourself.

Which is not what John is saying.

It is. He said:

Plus, they won't issue tourist visas anymore if they see other tourist visas from the past, NO MATTER how long ago. This is my experience, and the experience of places which arrange visas. It's not just hearsay.

[John1thru10]

To really understand what's happening people need to stop buying, and then arguing over, the officially released excuse: 'working illegally', and 'get a proper visa'.

Thailand unemployment is currently about 1%. It's not even possible for a country to register a lower unemployment rate than that. So that is not the reason.

They also released an official statement 4 days ago saying that it was actually a response to the missing plane. However, these efforts do nothing to address the matter of stolen passports. And in a more recent statement it was retracted.

Regarding 'get a proper visa', the officlal statements on websites, etc (what has generally been true in the past), is not how it is anymore, in most cases. Ignore the people with other types of visa denying that: if you've tried to get another Thailand tourist visa recently, inside any SE Asian country, you know it's getting harder and harder to come by.

The OBVIOUS thing that no one here is mentioning, is that the PM was forced to flee office, just 2 days before this was first announced. That is NOT UNRELATED! It is certainly a more obvious reality than 1% unemployment being suddenly seen as an emergency. Nor was it a coincidence that it became much harder to get a new tourist visa after she first took office: her party (which I have no opinion of) traditionally is not partial to farangs. Royalists traditionally are. That the new head of immigration who found a chance to impose harsh prejudices based on 'the feelings of a particular agent' is Thai-speak. 'Working illegially' isn't what it's about at all. It means, "Oh yeah? You Royalists think that foreigners are more important than the poor people up-country? I have the power in this office now, and watch this."

In America and the UK it's become routine for some politicans to target ethnic minorities. Like it or not, that's you here. We've all learned to detect their dog whistle calls back at home, about 'inner city' people meaning blacks (in America), rightwing politicians supporting 'stop and frisk' laws to target whatever group of people they don't like, muslims being targetted unfairly by UK law enforcement. It's common, but here in Thailand, we have been rather blissfully unaware of how much 'some' people don't like us, no matter how polite and 'Thai' we try to be. You aren't going to hear about it from your girlfriend, a food vendor, or your landlord. I love Thai people, but they are famous for not speaking their minds and smiling. The retirement, gold-plated crowd may well be very surprised after first celebrating the 'tourists' being driven out in the next months. Because they are in truth, as white as the rest of us. And just like blacks or Mexicans in America, or Muslims in the UK, there are plenty of people in Thailand who hate you every bit as much. Once you are the remaining target, all bets are off as far as your relazing retirements go, no matter how 'legitimate' you like to imagine Thais see you as being up to now.

[samuibruno]

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“Thailand is open to all tourists,” Gen Pharnu said, “but we will not allow illegal workers. If you want to work here please do the right thing. Apply for a business visa and live here legally.”

Not all business are or have 2 million and/or need 4 Thai employees.

How many 1 man businesses are there here, now operating without a workpermit and/or business visa?

Guess most of them have other visa anyway, so therefore will not impact them yet.

Yes, these 1 man-businesses won't make Thailand much richer, but they do no harm also. Just not given the oppertunity to run the business legal.

this makes me laugh

it doesnt matter 1 man bussiness or 100 man bussiness

you need a work permit to work in thailand

simple and plain

get rid of all and any who are not abiding to the laws

[Gulfsailor]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

Yeah and I'm one of them. I work 35 on 28 off in Abu Dhabi. I fly straight to Thailand the same night I get off. My intention was to either rent an apartment/house or buy an apartment because Hotels are not my best or cheapest option. Looks like that is now too risky without a Hotel booking I could be turned around on the way in.

Den

When you show immigration that you live in Abu Dhabi or elsewhere and pay tax there, you are obviously a tourist in Thailand and welcome to visit there regularly. Or are you saying you want to reside in Thailand without any permit or reason to do so, nor pay tax there?

[LivinLOS]

Let's put it this way, it's become a common enough experience for enough people, that now visa-run services will tell everyone this before they are even allowed to accompany the trip: if you have more than 2-3 tourist visas in your passport - regardless of how long ago, or how far apart they are - they will say no. Then reports from the people running those services became more extreme: if you've had 2. Sometimes varies a little. A newsletter from one of the services last year stated 'This is judged by a flip-through impression, regardless of the exact dates on former visas'. I experienced this myself at all consulates surrounding Thailand starting 2 years ago - and then finally at the beginning of last year, I found one place (Sawan Vega, beyond Vientienne) that allowed me one more (3rd) TR visa, with an 'extra fee' (as they put it) of an additional 1,000baht. After that, they also announced 'no more for anyone who has had more than 1...sometimes 2.'

This directly contradicts reports and posts here.

To be fair, you do hear lots of problems of people trying to either get multiple entry tourist visas or back to back type ones.

This difficulty in even getting them is why so many who travel a lot just reply on the exempt stamps.

Which is different from what John is saying.

Hardly... I will try again..

Lots of local consuls and embassys will refuse tourist visas based on 'having too many'.. Even when those were not serial back to back or even very recent.. Its done without much rhyme or reason and based on a glance through rather than calculations or rules you can work to.. and even if you get one, getting multiples like you used to is nigh on impossible.

Its certainly not the 'just go and get one' that some posters are painting it.

[Dee Kwa]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

Yeah and I'm one of them. I work 35 on 28 off in Abu Dhabi. I fly straight to Thailand the same night I get off. My intention was to either rent an apartment/house or buy an apartment because Hotels are not my best or cheapest option. Looks like that is now too risky without a Hotel booking I could be turned around on the way in.

Den

When you show immigration that you live in Abu Dhabi or elsewhere and pay tax there, you are obviously a tourist in Thailand and welcome to visit there regularly. Or are you saying you want to reside in Thailand without any permit or reason to do so, nor pay tax there?

No personal taxation currently exists in the United Arab Emirates.

[MoTheo]

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Genuine tourists are fine. All they have to do is prove to the immigration officer at the border checkpoint that they really are tourists by presenting evidence such as their travel itinerary, hotel booking, tour bookings and any other documents to prove their travel in Thailand is genuine, Lt Gen Pharnu said on Wednesday...

What am i to do, when i'm between job's or waiting for work i have several times spent my time in Thailand, i arrive with absolutely no plans other than the hotel booked for the first 2 - 3 nights from that on i usually do whatever i pleases and feel like to do. I arrive on the arrival visa and a quite few times i have done the border run. I wont as it stands now be able to show hotel booking, travel itinerary or tour bookings because i like to stay on my own terms. I'm not working here, i'm not a drug carrier i follow the laws here and i don't do anything illegal. I even drive motorbike with helmet and have a international licence. I spend a shit load of money here and probably also way to much and have done so for 5 - 6 years now. I stay in thailand 3 - 5 times a year for periods from 10 days to 2 months as i like it much more than my cold clima.


As i can understand from this i'm no longer to be considered a genuine tourist and might risk a charge of working illegal in Thailand, yet i fail to understand why i would work for a month in thailand for a salary that can be done home in 1 - 2 days. I'm sorry to say but it's getting more and more clear that this country have a high percentage of no brainers or people who forget to put on the thinking cap.

Time to move on?....I recon it might be the best, can the Philippines offer me almost the same but at a lower price...Yes, and goodbye Thailand may you rest in peace.

You could have always got a tourist visa first....See ya!

Yes..But the thing is i never know when i'm to be laid off work...Sometimes i happens from day to day due to order changes. So my company tells me, we rehire you in 2 weeks. When this happens i'm of to Thailand..If i'm to wait for my Tourist visa i can forget about going cant i, i simply don't have enough time. Or i can go and hope for the Visa on arrival and might face a charge of working illegal in the country. Last year i had 7 entries (all together with visa runs). How many triple entry tourist visa can i get in a year ?. That might be the solution for me..

[Gulfsailor]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

Yeah and I'm one of them. I work 35 on 28 off in Abu Dhabi. I fly straight to Thailand the same night I get off. My intention was to either rent an apartment/house or buy an apartment because Hotels are not my best or cheapest option. Looks like that is now too risky without a Hotel booking I could be turned around on the way in.

Den

When you show immigration that you live in Abu Dhabi or elsewhere and pay tax there, you are obviously a tourist in Thailand and welcome to visit there regularly. Or are you saying you want to reside in Thailand without any permit or reason to do so, nor pay tax there?

No personal taxation currently exists in the United Arab Emirates.

Even better to become a resident there then. Just show some proof you reside in UAE (residency permit of UAE exists?) and there shouldn't be any issues with visiting Thailand often on holiday.

[jspill]

There is the Thailand Elite program, for 500,000 Baht you can get a 5 year visa and stay for a full year on each entry.

I was surprised to hear this is still running but it is.

This 'Elite' program appears to be the solution for people aged under 50 who have plenty of money and don't work.

Didn't the last incarnation of that company go out of business and steal everyone's funds?

There's still fine print on the webpages 'subject to immigration officer's approval' or something to that effect, was linked in one the now closed threads.

Edited May 17, 2014 by jspill

[John1thru10]

This directly contradicts reports and posts here.

Actually it confirms them perfectly. No Thai consulate in nearby countries issue more than 2 or 3 tourist Visa, at the most. In most case single entry. If you don't believe it try it yourself.

Which is not what John is saying.

I'm sorry to contradict you, but it is what I am saying. The official statement regarding requirements for a TR visa have not changed in years. And also, applying from one's home country seems to be a different case. But the reality on the ground anywhere and everywhere within SE Asia has changed very significanly over the last 2 years. At this point, if the official simply sees several Thai visas in one's passport, regardless of how old they are, the applicant will be refused. No, it's not what the laws says. It's Thailand, and these new statments saying 'simply get a real visa' are double speak. That person surely knows that visas aren't being issued to most people at this point.