Facts: Q&A on Thai military coup

[webfact]

Facts
Q&A on Thai military coup

BANGKOK, May 23, 2014 (AFP) - Thailand was under junta rule on Friday after the military removed the civilian government in an overthrow it said was aimed at ending deadly political turmoil.

Here are answers to some key questions on the situation:

Why now?
The military takeover by commander-in-chief General Prayut Chan-O-Cha came after nearly seven months of political turmoil and coup rumours, although the backdrop is years of political strife and rival street protests.

The military first declared martial law on Tuesday and then seized power two days later after talks between the kingdom's bitter political rivals failed to reach a consensus.

The final straw appeared to be when the caretaker government aligned with ousted former premier Thaksin Shinawatra -- the arch-enemy of the military-backed royalist elite -- reaffirmed its refusal to step down.

The way the coup unfolded, with participants at the talks asked to deposit their mobile telephones at the start and then detained en masse by the military, left the impression that it was carefully choreographed.

"Looking back, it seems that it (a coup) might have been the plan from the beginning," said author and academic David Streckfuss.

The sudden move also raised questions about whether there was a split within the military between supporters of the royalist establishment and soldiers sympathetic to Thaksin.

"The coup means that Prayut had to consolidate control over the army. There may have been divisions in his support," said Paul Chambers, director of research at the Institute of Southeast Asian Affairs at Chiang Mai University.

Where are the detainees?
While several members of the two main political parties have since been freed, the leaders of the pro- and anti-government protest camps were believed to remain in military custody at an unknown location.

The anti-government movement told its followers in a message on Facebook that its senior members were safe but "under military protection" and likely to remain in the junta's "care" for some time.

Ousted government leaders, including former premier Yingluck Shinawatra, were waiting at a military facility for an audience with the army chief after being summoned by the junta, but it was unclear if they would be detained.

"If the prime minister and many of these personalities are not apprehended, then there would be the threat that they might set up a government in exile," said Chambers.

Who's in charge?
All authority in Thailand has been assumed by a "National Peace and Order Maintenance Council" comprised of the leaders of the various branches of the Thai armed forces and the police.

The dominant figure on the council is Prayut, the hardline chief of Thailand's powerful army who is a staunch royalist and has assumed the powers of the prime minister.

What next?
The army gave no indication of how long military rule might last but offered an indication of what is to come, saying it took power to "start political reform" -- a key demand of opposition protesters.

It also left the upper house of parliament, the Senate, intact despite a suspension of the constitution, giving a hint of the coming process to select a new leader.

Experts expect an interim premier close to the royalist elite to be appointed in the coming days, probably by the Senate.

The new junta government would then run the country for at least one year -- like after the 2006 coup -- during which time a new constitution would be drawn up to curb the political dominance of Thaksin and his allies.

"Elections are not likely before pro-opposition elements within the military and the Thai bureaucracy implement constitutional changes aimed at increasing the powers of institutions sympathetic to the pro-royalist establishment," said Alecia Quah, analyst at the consultancy firm IHS.

The fear is that fresh violence could erupt further if the pro-government "Red Shirts" fight back against the suspension of the kingdom's fragile democracy.

"The removal of the caretaker cabinet is likely to trigger violent protests by the pro-Puea Thai Red Shirts, who now have no other recourse but to incite violence and destabilise the state," said Quah.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-05-23

[chotthee]

In Thailand, my elite still ride Buffalo in the fields to avoid getting their feet dirty.

This is just part of Thai culture and way of life.

We seldom see this in the city anymore.

[DirtFarmer]

"The army gave no indication of how long military rule might last but offered an indication of what is to come, saying it took power to "start political reform" -- a key demand of opposition protesters.

It also left the upper house of parliament, the Senate, intact despite a suspension of the constitution, giving a hint of the coming process to select a new leader.

Experts expect an interim premier close to the royalist elite to be appointed in the coming days, probably by the Senate.

The new junta government would then run the country for at least one year -- like after the 2006 coup -- during which time a new constitution would be drawn up to curb the political dominance of Thaksin and his allies.

"Elections are not likely before pro-opposition elements within the military and the Thai bureaucracy implement constitutional changes aimed at increasing the powers of institutions sympathetic to the pro-royalist establishment," said Alecia Quah, analyst at the consultancy firm IHS."

________________________________________________

IF and I say IF these pundits are correct these Insiders and Experts... IF these pundits are correct and I assume they are although I had hoped for a completely different outcome...

less democracy.... comes to mind...no clean sweep here folks more of the same.... cronyism, stacked decks on the other side of the coin... so how on earth is that considered reform? I anxiously await the new PM.s manifesto for reform what exactly will be implemented and await the new Constitution..it is really hard to keep an open mind considering the tailoring that is presumed by this piece... wish everybody well .... hope ya got what ya want...

[wolf5370]

Wasn't Chambers being accused of being overtly biased a few weeks ago? Why are they asking unknowns from second tier universities (CMU/KKU) - how about director of political studies at Chula?

In all though seems fairly balanced - with some "what?" moments. I can't see how he can say, "Looking back, it seems that it (a coup) might have been the plan from the beginning," said author and academic David Streckfuss (Director of the Council on International Educational Exchange at Khon Kaen Uni ). Seems to me, looking back, the military tried pretty hard not to have a coup, but were eventually forced into it. Seems like the Reds might have done better working with Suthep on this council for reforms - they might have got more out of it than they are likely to get now - reforms now are likely going to be Royalist and Yellow in nature rather than independent (or at least cross party) like would have been achieved by a mutually chosen/appointed independent council.

//Edit: Grammar

Edited May 23, 2014 by wolf5370

[djjamie]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

Edited May 23, 2014 by djjamie

[dcutman]

"The army gave no indication of how long military rule might last but offered an indication of what is to come, saying it took power to "start political reform" -- a key demand of opposition protesters.

It also left the upper house of parliament, the Senate, intact despite a suspension of the constitution, giving a hint of the coming process to select a new leader.

Experts expect an interim premier close to the royalist elite to be appointed in the coming days, probably by the Senate.

The new junta government would then run the country for at least one year -- like after the 2006 coup -- during which time a new constitution would be drawn up to curb the political dominance of Thaksin and his allies.

"Elections are not likely before pro-opposition elements within the military and the Thai bureaucracy implement constitutional changes aimed at increasing the powers of institutions sympathetic to the pro-royalist establishment," said Alecia Quah, analyst at the consultancy firm IHS."

________________________________________________

IF and I say IF these pundits are correct these Insiders and Experts... IF these pundits are correct and I assume they are although I had hoped for a completely different outcome...

less democracy.... comes to mind...no clean sweep here folks more of the same.... cronyism, stacked decks on the other side of the coin... so how on earth is that considered reform? I anxiously await the new PM.s manifesto for reform what exactly will be implemented and await the new Constitution..it is really hard to keep an open mind considering the tailoring that is presumed by this piece... wish everybody well .... hope ya got what ya want...

It has only been 24 hours. Maybe you could cut some slack, and give the general a bit of time to sort things out. It cannot get any worse than what your favorite criminals have done in the last three years.

Yo might be surprised on the outcome of this whole thing. I know I am keeping a positive attitude for a much better country, Govt, and place to live.

Edited May 23, 2014 by dcutman

[CharlesHH]

I have puzzled over how to root out an entrenched political machine, like Thaksin's and Richard Daley of Chicago. It seems a very difficult problem because some kind of representative democracy should remain. This is obviously the current most pressing problem: How to eliminate the formation of single strong-man one-man top-down organization that uses family and cronies to keep graft coming in and to dispense $$ rewards to the top and lower level crony troops. This appears to be a classic Machine Politics example.

So, where are the bright political scientists and sociologists IN Thailand willing to come out with a plan or two to get rid of the big political machine and still retain Thai style democracy otherwise? Where are the strong academic programs and senior knowledgeable scholars on this topic? I suspect Thailand's universities produce precious few. If there is at least one, Hey guy, please speak up now as we are in dire need !

Machine politics depend on a kind of patronage, called corruption, here in the land of historic actual patronage. How to modify this ingrained system (which has good patronage, too) in a culture so intimately suffused?

Thailand's culture seems very fertile ground for political machines. How to stop those and still have wide and open citizen involvement in governing?

Please speak up!

[Thaiisnotrequired]

Questions and Answers so quickly? Never read so much shiite in my life.

[1plumber]

"The army gave no indication of how long military rule might last but offered an indication of what is to come, saying it took power to "start political reform" -- a key demand of opposition protesters.

It also left the upper house of parliament, the Senate, intact despite a suspension of the constitution, giving a hint of the coming process to select a new leader.

Experts expect an interim premier close to the royalist elite to be appointed in the coming days, probably by the Senate.

The new junta government would then run the country for at least one year -- like after the 2006 coup -- during which time a new constitution would be drawn up to curb the political dominance of Thaksin and his allies.

"Elections are not likely before pro-opposition elements within the military and the Thai bureaucracy implement constitutional changes aimed at increasing the powers of institutions sympathetic to the pro-royalist establishment," said Alecia Quah, analyst at the consultancy firm IHS."

________________________________________________

IF and I say IF these pundits are correct these Insiders and Experts... IF these pundits are correct and I assume they are although I had hoped for a completely different outcome...

less democracy.... comes to mind...no clean sweep here folks more of the same.... cronyism, stacked decks on the other side of the coin... so how on earth is that considered reform? I anxiously await the new PM.s manifesto for reform what exactly will be implemented and await the new Constitution..it is really hard to keep an open mind considering the tailoring that is presumed by this piece... wish everybody well .... hope ya got what ya want...

It has only been 24 hours. Maybe you could cut some slack, and give the general a bit of time to sort things out. It cannot get any worse than what your favorite criminals have done in the last three years.

Yo might be surprised on the outcome of this whole thing. I know I am keeping a positive attitude for a much better country, Govt, and place to live.

my thoughts exactly. clean start, re-boot. This guy has more sense than ANYTHING I've seen here so far.

[FangFerang]

I have a strong feeling it is not going to be as cut and dry as it seems. TVF posters of both colors are going to make more yellow chardonnay and red lambrusco whine than a cohort of Etruscans could guzzle at a bacchanalia.

The general knows how to play a dangerous game and win. Concrete reforms will be implemented, with transparency, and then there will be elections. I expect a five year ban on a wide swath of people on both sides of the fence will be part of all that. It's a shame General Prayuth probably will not initiate a lifetime ban for certain offenses, like corruption, but that I believe is inevitable in SE Asia, where everyone simultaneously wants to benefit from corruption and do away with it.

Then the man in Dubai will establish new connections, set up a new 'party', and the game will repeat itself.

Because neither side wants to implement changes that would limit their own power in the future (a problem enjoyed by all sides in democracies worldwide), I see this as a short-term peace, which is dreadful. I welcome peace, but regret it will be a short-lived brainchild.

I do relish the thought of radical leaders from both sides being in protective custody for a protracted period and spending quality time. I would give my left hand to be a fly on the wall while that is going on.

Edited May 23, 2014 by FangFerang

[aussieinthailand]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

[chelsearey]

any ideas how this might affect people not at all interested in politics and government affairs? in Chaing Mai i've seen military about the last few nights and last night there was a curfew so businesses closed early and it was hard to find food at 10 pm! also, it seems to have affected tv! other than that i'm not too interested in the details of the parties and what they want and why and what not, to be frank. i remember several years ago there was some action in Bangkok with the yellow and red shirts and i know that Thailand is no stranger to "coups." so other than that they might have another "coup," how is this gonna affect my day to day life? and when are my channels gonna be back on the telly? and where am i gonna get my late-night snacks?? thanks guys!

[Metisa]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Go back to Liverpool, where your genes first came from, and find a few facts about yourself before you criticise truth and spew bent rubbish.

[Metisa]

any ideas how this might affect people not at all interested in politics and government affairs? in Chaing Mai i've seen military about the last few nights and last night there was a curfew so businesses closed early and it was hard to find food at 10 pm! also, it seems to have affected tv! other than that i'm not too interested in the details of the parties and what they want and why and what not, to be frank. i remember several years ago there was some action in Bangkok with the yellow and red shirts and i know that Thailand is no stranger to "coups." so other than that they might have another "coup," how is this gonna affect my day to day life? and when are my channels gonna be back on the telly? and where am i gonna get my late-night snacks?? thanks guys!

GROW UP. That might help.

[ratcatcher]

any ideas how this might affect people not at all interested in politics and government affairs? in Chaing Mai i've seen military about the last few nights and last night there was a curfew so businesses closed early and it was hard to find food at 10 pm! also, it seems to have affected tv! other than that i'm not too interested in the details of the parties and what they want and why and what not, to be frank. i remember several years ago there was some action in Bangkok with the yellow and red shirts and i know that Thailand is no stranger to "coups." so other than that they might have another "coup," how is this gonna affect my day to day life? and when are my channels gonna be back on the telly? and where am i gonna get my late-night snacks?? thanks guys!

GROW UP. That might help.

"...how is this gonna affect my day to day life? and when are my channels gonna be back on the telly? and where am i gonna get my late-night snacks?? "

It is good to read about someone with their priorities in the right order and unprepared to suffer true deprivation..

Are you here teaching English by any chance? And as the previous poster said "Grow up"

[Jip99]

any ideas how this might affect people not at all interested in politics and government affairs? in Chaing Mai i've seen military about the last few nights and last night there was a curfew so businesses closed early and it was hard to find food at 10 pm! also, it seems to have affected tv! other than that i'm not too interested in the details of the parties and what they want and why and what not, to be frank. i remember several years ago there was some action in Bangkok with the yellow and red shirts and i know that Thailand is no stranger to "coups." so other than that they might have another "coup," how is this gonna affect my day to day life? and when are my channels gonna be back on the telly? and where am i gonna get my late-night snacks?? thanks guys!

The good thing is that all your brain has to remember is.... 10.00 pm.... Oh! Nothing happens now, time for bed.

PS, 7/11 is now 5/10 so get your snacks early.

Not too challenging is it ?

[laban]

Q&A according to The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21602759-sudden-move-army-brings-only-near-term-calm-path-throne

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[neverdie]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

So what? Everyone has to do some good at some point. However, surely you realise that just because you help an old lady to cross the street doesn't give you the right to eat boiled children. Ohhh & DOWN THE HAWKS ! Go the POWER !

[djjamie]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Wonderful. I never denied those facts in my post?

[Fookhaht]

Go back to Liverpool, where your genes first came from, and find a few facts about yourself before you criticise truth and spew bent rubbish.

GROW UP. That might help.

Two of TV's more insightful, constructive, and friendly posts--just what this forum needs more of: Tact and diplomacy!

Edited May 23, 2014 by Fookhaht

[djjamie]

Go back to Liverpool, where your genes first came from, and find a few facts about yourself before you criticise truth and spew bent rubbish.

GROW UP. That might help.

Two of TV's more insightful, constructive, and friendly posts--just what this forum needs more of: Tact and diplomacy!

Nahh,

Mine are better;

is this inane drivel?

Hehe. Save your breath. It will be interesting to watch you and your ilk getting what you so deservedly have coming for you. Disgusting scum. This guy went on and allured to me being killed along with certain Thai leaders. Suffice to say his latter posts are no longer on TVF.

The following is my favorite. It is a guy that got very close to rebutting me then decided to demonize me instead. No it is not you Fab4!

I would gladly rebut your post if it were not complete nonsense.

And finally

Has anybody seen Jamie's copy of The Plot?

Edited May 23, 2014 by djjamie

[beautifulthailand99]

Q&A according to The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21602759-sudden-move-army-brings-only-near-term-calm-path-throne

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

That combined with other breaking news in the UK as to our new guest pretty much confirms what has been rumour for some time.

[3NUMBAS]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/77e34dc0-e229-11e3-915b-00144feabdc0.html

The baht edged up 0.13 per cent against the dollar on Friday, as some investors expressed hopes that the coup could restore stability to Thailand after six months of debilitating political crisis.

Other analysts are much more pessimistic, pointing to the turmoil in the years after a 2006 military coup and the worsening of the country’s political divide since.

The Siam Intelligence Unit think-tank warned people to “expect . . . the worst”, adding: “The worst possible scenario is a chronic civil war.”

John Kerry, US secretary of state, said on Thursday that the US was “reviewing” military and other assistance it gave to Thailand as a result of the coup. He urged the immediate restoration of civilian rule and a return to democracy.

“I am concerned by reports that senior political leaders of Thailand’s major parties have been detained and call for their release,” Mr Kerry said. He warned that the coup would have “negative implications . . . especially for our relationship with the Thai military”.

[fab4]

any ideas how this might affect people not at all interested in politics and government affairs? in Chaing Mai i've seen military about the last few nights and last night there was a curfew so businesses closed early and it was hard to find food at 10 pm! also, it seems to have affected tv! other than that i'm not too interested in the details of the parties and what they want and why and what not, to be frank. i remember several years ago there was some action in Bangkok with the yellow and red shirts and i know that Thailand is no stranger to "coups." so other than that they might have another "coup," how is this gonna affect my day to day life? and when are my channels gonna be back on the telly? and where am i gonna get my late-night snacks?? thanks guys!

You'll be relieved to hear that the Disney Channel is now broadcasting again.

[leggo]

When soldiers and policemen drive luxury cars you know there's a problem! And that's just for starters.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wolf5370]

Do you really want to leave the future of Thailand in the hands of the below.

The PTP conducted the actual coup 3 years earlier when it manipulated the democratic process and imposed a dictatorship. The Thai military and much of the populace recognized this and this is reversing the coup.

This dictatorship is recognized. A democracy has a wide potential base of support but offers weak incentives to the voters. Dictatorship provides stronger incentives which was a 40% above market value on rice to a narrower supporter base which are the rice farmers that make up 7% of the population of Thailand. And the cherry on the cake is it was sold to the below uneducated buffalo by 2 accused terrorists and a communist leader who fled the country to avoid prosecution years ago.

So rest assured when you read about this coup. You are reading about the reversal of the coup by the brutal UDD and the govt it supporters which is run buy an unelected criminal fugitive.

So when the OP suggests how long will this military or DRT (democracy restoration team) rule last in this scenario I say this. As long as it takes for people to understand that an unelectable, accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, criminal fugitive being backed up by 2 other accused terrorists and a communist is not acceptable.

Key reform is education. It is a tool to enrich people and allow them to manipulate the future through democratic means for the betterment of the majority. Not for thaksin. Not for 7%.

Educate the below. Apart from the terrorist element amongst them they are hard working, honest yet simple uneducated and gullible folk. They need our pity and funding for education to break this cycle of dictatorial abuse of power under a guise of democracy. The buffalo deserve to break the cycle of perpetual poverty through unsustainable hand outs the PTP have made them accustomed too.

The General is the key to allow the farmers to break free. Like a child that needs discipline to mould their knowledge of right from wrong the red shirts need the army and will thank them one day for freeing them from a regime they are inadvertently feeding the fire of.

A few facts you and the Mark and Suthep lovers seem to never acknowledge,

Thaksin was the first PM to run a full term, he introduced a range of polices to alleviate poverty which was reduced by half in four years, which means that the poor can now send their kids too school and even UNI,

He introduced a universal healthcare program, the 30 baht scheme,

He invested in a massive infrastructure program and meanwhile public debit sector fell from 57% GDP 2001 to 41% GDP 2006

Transparency International's corruption perceptions index said corruption levels had been perceived to have fallen between 2001 and 2005.

BUT as always these facts are never mentioned or acknowledged as the facts don't sit with your political view, but the numbers stack up and you don't like it.

by the way, GO THE HAWKS...

Those "Facts" are mentioned ALL THE TIME! By the way Leekpai set up the health scheme - Thaksin just took credit for it and bungled the budgeting causing rural (read: poor area) clinic and hospitals to collapse.

Are you suggesting kids didn't go to school before 2001? Are you suggesting the poor got wealthier during his administration? Compared to whom - the rich/poor gap didn't exactly close did it. Lending poor people money with little control sure does give them more money for a while - until the bank wants to be repaid and the land they lived on for generations is taken and rented back to them!

Also...

Transparency International's CPI (what you are talking about) is heavily criticised : From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_International

The Corruption Perceptions Index has received criticisms over the years. The main one stems from the difficulty in measuring corruption, which by definition happens behind the scenes. The Corruption Perceptions Index therefore needs to rely on third-party survey which have been criticized as potentially unreliable. Data can vary widely depending on the public perception of a country, the completeness of the surveys and the methodology used. The second issue is that data cannot be compared from year to year because Transparency International uses different methodologies and samples every year. This makes it difficult to evaluate the result of new policies.The Corruption Perceptions Index authors replied to these criticisms by reminding that the Corruption Perceptions Index is meant to measure perception and not "reality". They argue that "perceptions matter in their own right, since... firms and individuals take actions based on perceptions

A big problem with it wrt Thailand is that many people believe that some corruption is fine, so would give a low rating of corruption where it is not overt - whereas in western countries the opposite is true. Also comparing year on year index positions is flawed as above - so not weight to your argument there either.

Debt to GDP does not signify less debt - actually thanks to schemes such as the village loan scheme, personal debt rose dramatically during his administration - however, so did the GDP (it had to - it was on the way out of the Tiger Crash!).

[Thaiwine]

The last paragraph in the opening post by Quah in my opinion is inciting violence,

How about the option of waiting to see what the reforms will be.

[chelsearey]

ok, Metisa, ratcatcher Jip99, all of your rude, patronizing, arrogant, stuffy, snobby, judgmental, smug replies to what i said (which was written in comedic, self-depricating tone!! hello!!) do not make you any smarter than me, i'm sorry to inform you. although i know it made you feel that way when you were self-righteously stroking away at your keyboard...

i was half-kidding; sorry that was lost on some of you. although it is true that politics and government affairs aren't on my personal list of interests doesn't mean it is right to belittle me and be plain out and out rude...

i was just asking if any of you who is so interested in this national situation could comment on how it would affect daily life for most of us besides the obvious. sorry for the jovial tone! geez!

maybe i wrongly assumed this site was meant to be friendly?

[beautifulthailand99]

ok, Metisa, ratcatcher Jip99, all of your rude, patronizing, arrogant, stuffy, snobby, judgmental, smug replies to what i said (which was written in comedic, self-depricating tone!! hello!!) do not make you any smarter than me, i'm sorry to inform you. although i know it made you feel that way when you were self-righteously stroking away at your keyboard...

i was half-kidding; sorry that was lost on some of you. although it is true that politics and government affairs aren't on my personal list of interests doesn't mean it is right to belittle me and be plain out and out rude...

i was just asking if any of you who is so interested in this national situation could comment on how it would affect daily life for most of us besides the obvious. sorry for the jovial tone! geez!

maybe i wrongly assumed this site was meant to be friendly?

as my dear old boss used to say to me assume - makes an ass out of u and me ! Welcome to Thai Visa Forum.

[SamMunich]

I think there are a few facts, that will decide on the future of the coup. Let me point out first though, that I am a democracy loving person,- but not a stupid democracy loving one.

Will the military be able to nip upcountry resistance in the bud? I hope so, as else we will really have a full scale civil war. If the military can isolate the red shirt leadership, the rest will not be able to organize. A positive sign in that direction is the promise to pay for the pledged rice. If they can pull that off, they take a lot of wind out of the sails of the red shirts.

Secondly they must soon show, that they mean business in regard to reforms and also in regard to (at least) reducing corruption. You can't stop it in just one go, but at least reduce it substantially.

Third they will have most business on their side if they really implement major infrastructure projects. Not much left then for the common man, but they only know the old style of politics.

But the one top priority issue is to break the backbone of the Taksin network.

And yes, take away all Thai passports from the fugitive criminal, he has enough other passports.