Pakistan woman stoned by family outside Lahore court

[Ulysses G.]

Also, I am waiting for someone to give me a reference/proof that Allah justifies murder.

Plenty of Islamic Mullahs justify it and they are the leaders of the religion. It really does not matter how we translate the Muslim holy book.

[Morch]

Did some of the same, in India and other places.

It would be far fetched to deduce from your personal experience that "interaction with police was very good" - even if I did

not have my own experience to counter that, a quick review of past cases published on media hardly speaks in favor of

the police in connection with such cases. The story portrayed in the parallel topic in this forum is another fine example.

I'm really not sure regarding the bit were most cases you met had "happy endings", guess it depends on where this was and

what sort of organization you belonged to.

You can assure me of nothing, although you are probably right. It is worthy to note that Muslims are a minority in India, so

wouldn't expect them to be over-represented on this, and in addition - your own experience might be effected by location.

Doing the same kind of work in a Muslim area in India, one will get more Muslim cases.

Doing the same kind of work with Muslim population (not necessarily in India) is a somewhat different experience.

The most notable difference is that workers/volunteers are potentially more exposed to danger themselves, and that local

authorities are less forthcoming with assistance.

As I said before, there are good people and bad people, and so there are good police as well as bad police. I was fortunate enough to work for a Trust where the local police were good people. I know about India and I have experienced and observed all the very bad points and people but this does not give me the right to say that they are all bad because they are not because I have met good people.

There are many Muslims all over India and they are not confined to the north or solely to Pakistan or Bangladesh. The last place I worked was in the south and there are a lot of Muslims there. I also worked in the east, which is predominantly Muslim, and these were good people.

By saying, “your own experience might be effected by location. Doing the same kind of work in a Muslim area in India, one will get more Muslim cases”, you prove what I have said all along on this forum, that the location would determine the crime but not necessarily the people and their religion.

I don't recall claiming ALL police in India were bad. When it comes to lower rungs of the social order, the police does have a

lot of things to improve. Reports of police coverup, indifference and even involvement in rape cases are common.

It's great that you saw a lot of India, it's a very interesting country. Alas, the only predominantly Muslim state is J&k (if one

discounts Lakshadweep). Not sure what you call "the east"? If you meant Assam (and perhaps Manipur) - Muslims are still a minority, over 30% though. Specific areas within states may be predominantly Muslim, true.

Earlier you "assured" that most cases involved Hindus. Did you mean that even in predominantly Muslim areas, Hindus

would be involved?

[Morch]

Sounds like you got some anger and control issues with regard to other posters.

"Sounds" are only assumptions, not fact! If you are not bothered to read what I say, you can only assume. Keep assuming, it is a way of evading the problem. Your choice.

I read your post and that's what I sensed. Of course, words on the internet can be misleading and it is quite possible that

you were indeed trying to convey your acceptance of posters failings in a calm and reasonable manner - which I obviously

missed.

Thank you for that.

Yes, I was trying to explain that criminals are the ones guilty of the crime and not the culture/religion. Even if there were no cultures or religions, people would still be commiting crime. And to spread all this hate speech does not help to create peace in the world, in fact it is against all religions to hate others.

Most original writings of monotheistic religions include passages against blasphemers, heretics and non-believers.

Wouldn't say all religions are against hating others. It is certainly not a fact. It is certainly not practiced by all.

You wish to distance religion and culture from the crime, and you are entitled to your opinion. Reality shows that in most

Western countries (predominantly Christian, or post-Christian), such incidents as described in the OP are not acceptable.

That these Western countries and Christianity got a patchy history is true, and that they have different problem issues is

true as well. The OP, however, is about present day and about a specific kind of transgression.

Saying that these sort of things happen more often in Muslim countries (and yes, in India as well) does not constitute hate

speech.

[Morch]

As you've been told by another poster, stop overdoing it.

Every post that does not agree with you is tagged as hatred of Muslims.

Saying posters are responsible for murders.

There weren't "hundreds of thousands" killed in the Gujarat riots.

And posting in bold doesn't make your point more valid.

I should “stop overdoing it”? Why? I thought everyone else was overdoing it with their hate speech. Oh, and I should obey a poster that does not agree with me? Who are you, my father!

A lot of tags, not every tag, that I have read are about hating Muslims. Read again. You so not agree with my tag so why are you responding? Are you into hating me as well as Muslims?

Yes, some posters are responsible for the murders all over the world because they spread hate that entices more hate and crime. In any case, people say what they want on this forum, so why can’t I? If you don’t like it, then don’t read my messages.

So, Mr. Wise Guy, tell me how many were killed in Gujarat.

As for posting in bold, I am not aware of it and it was not my intention. Sometimes I type my replies on Word and transfer the text to the forum but my Word text is not in bold. When I read the forum I do not see my text in bold – maybe it is your eyesight. In any case, I apologise that this bothers you if that is the case. Maybe you should exercise less control

You can do whatever you like, just pointing out you're overdoing it and that it doesn't help supporting your point, not to mention

making people more antagonistic and less receptive to your views.

I don't care enough about you to hate you. Hate is a very intimate feeling for me, keep it for special individuals, if at all.

Usually nothing to do with religion, nationality and gender.

As for Gujarat - most reports mentioned over a 1000 casualties (mostly Muslim, but also Hindus). Adding some of the few

hundred missing people, and some of the few thousands injured, some reports place it closer to 2000. I am not familiar with

any halfway credible source citing "hundreds of thousands" killed. But this discussion is probably OT.

Like I said earlier - a lot of anger. Master Yoda got his work cut for him.

[Morch]

Diddl writes:

You are as guilty of murder as far as I am concerned as those killing these women, or killing anybody for that matter, because you foster this hate towards all people such as Muslims even though most are innocent and would never delve so low as to kill their offspring.

I'm not guilty of murder. I couldn't even kill a fish. Indeed, I do all I can to try and protect children. The people described in the OP kill people for non-reasons. That's 180% different than the way I manifest in this world. You might as well call me Cleopatra, as it makes as much sense, as saying I'm guilty of murder. Ok, you're hot headed and trying to make a dramatic point, but you're going about it all wrong, buddy.

Dude, you're the one mentioning hate, over and over. I don't hate the people that are studiously cruel and causing suffering, I hate what they doing. I don't even hate the cultural cruelties mixed with religion (Fatwa, Sharia, etc-a) that compel parents to kill their offspring. I realize people do crazed things and follow screwed up belief systems. I'm trying to find some routes toward sanity. If I could sacrifice my life to save just one girl from being stoned to death, I would.

As far as 'there are good Muslims, etc.' Yes, we all know that. Some of my favorite people where I reside in N. Thailand are Muslims. Again, that's a side issue, and doesn't negate the fact that there are despicably cruel people out there who use Islam and 'it's Allah's will' ....for (at least part of) their justification for causing so much harm.

If you don’t hate innocent people who have nothing to do with the cruelty and murder that people of their culture/religion do, then what I wrote does not concern you so why do you retaliate? My comments are directed at all the hate speech that entices killings towards sectors of people that have nothing to do with cruelty or murder, people painting everybody with the same brush when not everyone is like that.

Read what I say and you will see what I mean and that it is not directed at you. That is the problem isn’t it, people just get emotional and respond without thinking about what they read!

Also, I am waiting for someone to give me a reference/proof that Allah justifies murder. I am really interested to know this. I am not interested in hearsay.

Anyway, I’m out of here. This forum is getting boring repeating the same thing over and over again, and people are getting emotional and nasty as is usually the case on TV. Good luck to you all, I only hope that one day people do not hate you.

"Anyway, I’m out of here. This forum is getting boring repeating the same thing over and over again, and people are getting emotional and nasty as is usually the case on TV."

Nah...you'll be back:

"am absolutely disgusted with the people on these TV forums and I would certainly never recommend anyone to read the rubbish written here by the few who incessantly have to spoil it for others. I’m out of here – good riddance to bad rubbish!"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/729688-pakistan-woman-stoned-by-family-outside-lahore-court/page-5#entry7901593

[F430murci]

No, but the author of the report seems to have a deep seated resentment of Muslims after being abused by her Afghani husband in the 1970s. Its a shame that she only now going public that could lead to accusations of bias and undermine her research conclusions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2429037/Phyllis-Chesler-Writer-72-recalls-months-spent-young-bride-imprisoned-Afghan-compound-finally-escaped.html

You may think you sound all intellectual and reasonable, but in reality you sound like pathetic trash.

Actually I was flagging a concern that could possibly dilute the impact of content of some of the points in the URL from Steely Dan; I was not refuting the content. It seems you are so blinded that you are unable to comprehend any form of nuance.

You cannot just cease your personal attacks, with regular likes by some on this forum. Its completely against forum rules to personally attack a member that you may disagree with and really indicates a dullard. For reasons I do not comprehend why the Mods do not take action against you for your repeated posts in contradiction to forum rules that is consistent behaviour by you across a number of topics.

Sometimes truth and candid speaking is more important than political correctness. Here is another example for ya! Great people!

----------

Muslims Murder, Mutilate Christian Father In Front of His Son

http://pamelageller.com/2014/05/graphic-christian-father-killed-front-son.html/

Edited May 31, 2014 by F430murci

[boomerangutang]

Diddl writes: "Also, I am waiting for someone to give me a reference/proof that Allah justifies murder."

Fatwa = murder

Stoning to death = murder

Jihad = murder

Honor killings = murder

....all justified by Allah, God of the Muslims, according to Muslims themselves. If you don't believe me, ask them.

[thailiketoo]

It's nothing to do with religion. It's cultural.

So if these folk were devout Christians she still would have suffered the same fate..?...

As I recall, "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the biggies in the Christian religion.........

Why doesn't it happen in Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Senegal etc.

Turkey

According to the Union of Turkish Bar Associations, one out of every four brides is a child, with families increasingly applying to change their daughters' birthdates so that they can legally marry.

The girl, identified only as K.E., was only 11-years-old when she was married to a man with a religious ceremony upon their families’ decision. She gave birth to a baby when she was 12 and became pregnant with her second child shortly afterwards

Child bride found dead in southeastern Turkey after giving second birth

Malaysian husband,

An eight-year-old Yemeni girl has died of internal bleeding on her wedding night after marrying a man five times her age, a social activist and two local residents said, in a case that has caused an outcry in the media and revived debate about child brides.

Yemeni child bride, eight, 'dies on wedding night'

In Kebumen, a rural part of Indonesia’s Java province, early and forced marriage has been a problem for many years.

Pulled out of school to start a family, girls in the community are often denied opportunities to get an education and fulfil their potential.

http://www.plan-uk.org/news/news-and-features/tackling-child-marriage-in-indonesia

In Kebumen, a rural part of Indonesia’s Java province, early and forced marriage has been a problem for many years.

Pulled out of school to start a family, girls in the community are often denied opportunities to get an education and fulfil their potential.

-

Edited June 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Scott]

Lots of bad stuff in lots of places. This thread is about Pakistan and a woman stoned there. Let's stay on-topic and if comparisons are going to be used, be sure and use them in relation to the topic of this thread.

[sustento]

Diddi your right, most religions have moved on, AND understand that text in books is perhaps misinterpreted in modern times, BUT, the world is plagued in our modern times with folk of a certain religion wishing to kill innocent folk, even their OWN folk if they happen to be on an airplane with infidels...

Now you tell me why these folk are not being shown the error of their ways....?...............

PS. Hindu's, as far as l am aware, are not plotting to blow up kids in shopping malls or planes or....................

You obviously missed the fact that Tamils are almost 90% Hindu and the LTTE undertook numerous terrorist style activities from 1976 to 2009 in both Sri Lanka and India ( including the assassination of Indian PM, Rajiv Ghandi). The crushing of the LTTE in 2009 also saw some major incidents of systemic violence against Tamil women and children including gang rape and murder, by the largely Buddhist Sinhalese army.

I do not give a fugg about that stuff . This is the 21st century

2009 is the 21st century...