Junta mulls pricey transport projects

[djjamie]

Perhaps the memory is fading, but I thought the high speed train plans were originally proposed by the Democrat Party, and so may have supporters across different colours.

Two big differences. The Democrats plan included a high-speed train to Nong Khai, not Chiang Mai, to link through to China, and the money was to come from the yearly budget, so would have had proper oversight, not like the 2.2 trillion baht plan of the PTP.

That is correct and in fact I would not be surprised if the Junta follow the model that the Dem's had put forward recently.

Financially responsible, transparent, funded out of the yearly budget and it was to be democratically scrutinized by parliament. All the things the PTP bill was not.

See below.

Parliamentary oversight would be one of the 15 key principles of democracy? Tell us again what the other 14 are

Quite correct.

The next one is a principle of TVF.

Principle #9

Do not post off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[bigbamboo]

Doomsayers constrain Thailand's development. This is visionary and is a wonderful investment in the future

And how appropriate if it's 'visionary' creator, like KT himself, was duly awarded the Order of the White Elephant.

[Prbkk]

Perhaps the memory is fading, but I thought the high speed train plans were originally proposed by the Democrat Party, and so may have supporters across different colours.

Two big differences. The Democrats plan included a high-speed train to Nong Khai, not Chiang Mai, to link through to China, and the money was to come from the yearly budget, so would have had proper oversight, not like the 2.2 trillion baht plan of the PTP.

That is correct and in fact I would not be surprised if the Junta follow the model that the Dem's had put forward recently.

Financially responsible, transparent, funded out of the yearly budget and it was to be democratically scrutinized by parliament. All the things the PTP bill was not.

See below.

Parliamentary oversight would be one of the 15 key principles of democracy? Tell us again what the other 14 are

Quite correct.

The next one is a principle of TVF.

Principle #9

Do not post off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

I believe you might have forgotten the request to stop making blatantly political comments and to refrain from the use of propaganda.

[djjamie]

Perhaps the memory is fading, but I thought the high speed train plans were originally proposed by the Democrat Party, and so may have supporters across different colours.

Two big differences. The Democrats plan included a high-speed train to Nong Khai, not Chiang Mai, to link through to China, and the money was to come from the yearly budget, so would have had proper oversight, not like the 2.2 trillion baht plan of the PTP.

That is correct and in fact I would not be surprised if the Junta follow the model that the Dem's had put forward recently.

Financially responsible, transparent, funded out of the yearly budget and it was to be democratically scrutinized by parliament. All the things the PTP bill was not.

See below.

Parliamentary oversight would be one of the 15 key principles of democracy? Tell us again what the other 14 are

Quite correct.

The next one is a principle of TVF.

Principle #9

Do not post off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

I believe you might have forgotten the request to stop making blatantly political comments and to refrain from the use of propaganda.

I think you will find it does not break forum rules.

We are talking about a transport project making this a political news story. How can we discuss this news story without discussing politics! I also highlighted the DEMs had an infrastructure bill that the Junta may adopt. Nothing wrong with that.

I highlighted the DEM model is Financially responsible, it is transparent, it is funded out of the yearly budget and it was to be democratically scrutinized by parliament.

​The PTP bill was not financially responsible, was not transparent, was not funded out of the yearly budget and it was not to be democratically scrutinized by parliament.

The Constitution Court came to the same conclusion as well regarding the PTP bill. It is no secret or propaganda.

These are facts. I am not saying the PTP are bad I am saying their bill was not the same as the DEM bill.

Just because you don't like to be reminded of the failed PTP bill does not make my comments any less correct or against forum rules.

Your comments however are a different story. And that different story is "off topic"

[Prbkk]

No. The request is to avoid political lobbying and propaganda. This was a discussion that did that until you arrived wanting to score points. Your obsession with Thaksin is really tiresome.

[djjamie]

No. The request is to avoid political lobbying and propaganda. This was a discussion that did that until you arrived wanting to score points. Your obsession with Thaksin is really tiresome.

I have counted numerous posts before mine mentioning political parties and the relationship between this transport project and such parties.

I did not mention thaksin in my post.

I understand your frustration under the current climate and it seems my comment about the failed PTP infrastructure project has hit a nerve with you, but can I suggest you take a breather as you are not making sense now.

I look forward to reading your posts in the future.

Edited May 29, 2014 by djjamie

[tonbridgebrit]

Wow it didn't take them long to find the trough.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

What, you reckon the present guys in charge are corrupt ??

[Chicog]

I wonder how long they've been eyeballing that?

[tonbridgebrit]

I wonder if the alleged under table drop revert from 30% back to 10%?

And putting the money in their/right pockets.

That is what it is all about.

The transport project as well as the water management are "mulled".

The unmasks one of the real purposes of the coup.

Removing a "bad" government was not one.

If it is true, thaen Thailand is saving 20% of tax payers money.

Bravo.

So, do you people reckon that the guys in charge right now are corrupt ??

But Chotthee, you just reckon they're not as corrupt as the previous guys ??

[marcusd]

Everything proposed people is about 1.7trillion cheaper than,yingluck.

This is wonderful news and well worth supporting.

Nine of you would be on this forum if not for such expenditures

[marcusd]

Ncfc what an allegation. Spending money is what government does. It is a lot better laid out than those who,previously fed off the trough

[FangFerang]

"Curiouser and curiouser", said Alice. (From Mr. Dobbs).

I think the red supporters are cheering the right reasons with the wrong people, and the yellow cheerleaders are buying what they're selling like group-think sheeple. Might means right...right?

Does anyone notice the rice farmers could not be paid, and suddenly banks are bidding for the loans to pay them? That is absolutely weird. And one month ago all the yellow supporters were slamming any infrastructure projects, although they are badly needed here? Now, suddenly, officials are talking about infrastructure projects?

From an objective standpoint, the only thing that changed was not who was in power, but who could grant the contracts...and to whom... Like DizBang likes to say...follow the money.

You are buying what they're selling, and calling it gospel. "It doesn't matter as long as their people get none of the money...it doesn't matter as long as their people don't line their pockets (because lining the pockets of my righteous side means evil loses)...

Really? You're buying what they're selling because... it's the only game in town. I don't blame you, but thinking people notice.

Edited May 29, 2014 by FangFerang

[tso310]

Let the Chinese build and run the high speed trains that they offered to do. Its the only way the rail system in Thailand will move out of the 19th century.

[pantareiyingluck]

Looks like some money has to be found and set aside. To pay the rice? Or will we see Joint Strike Fighters soon at Thai bases.

[robblok]

"Curiouser and curiouser", said Alice. (From Mr. Dobbs).

I think the red supporters are cheering the right reasons with the wrong people, and the yellow cheerleaders are buying what they're selling like group-think sheeple. Might means right...right?

Does anyone notice the rice farmers could not be paid, and suddenly banks are bidding for the loans to pay them? That is absolutely weird. And one month ago all the yellow supporters were slamming any infrastructure projects, although they are badly needed here? Now, suddenly, officials are talking about infrastructure projects?

From an objective standpoint, the only thing that changed was not who was in power, but who could grant the contracts...and to whom... Like DizBang likes to say...follow the money.

You are buying what they're selling, and calling it gospel. "It doesn't matter as long as their people get none of the money...it doesn't matter as long as their people don't line their pockets (because lining the pockets of my righteous side means evil loses)...

Really? You're buying what they're selling because... it's the only game in town. I don't blame you, but thinking people notice.

Actually Abhisith and others have always said the transport projects were needed. I agreed, just did not agree with the high speed train and that it had to come from a 2 trillion baht loan (without checks and balances) but from the normal budget. If you look back you can find this well documented.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/abhisit-unveils-alternative-development-projects-2/

Edited May 29, 2014 by robblok

[northernjohn]

Wow. Big decisions ahead. Hope the right decision is taken and NCPO err on the side of caution.

Yes indeeddy dodo it is big decisions.

Especially as the plans were not even thought out. They just sat down and scribbled some stuff they would like and asked for the money no details or environmental impact studies. Nothing just a big I want and your grandchildren's children will be paying the bill.

In my opinion they should first bring the existing railroads up to safe standards table it until they have taken care of more pressing problems. Then look into other alternatives. They had the rail road shut down to Chiang Mai for a period of time to bring the rails up to safety standards. A few weeks ago they had a train derail before it could get out of the station.

[northernjohn]

"Curiouser and curiouser", said Alice. (From Mr. Dobbs).

I think the red supporters are cheering the right reasons with the wrong people, and the yellow cheerleaders are buying what they're selling like group-think sheeple. Might means right...right?

Does anyone notice the rice farmers could not be paid, and suddenly banks are bidding for the loans to pay them? That is absolutely weird. And one month ago all the yellow supporters were slamming any infrastructure projects, although they are badly needed here? Now, suddenly, officials are talking about infrastructure projects?

From an objective standpoint, the only thing that changed was not who was in power, but who could grant the contracts...and to whom... Like DizBang likes to say...follow the money.

You are buying what they're selling, and calling it gospel. "It doesn't matter as long as their people get none of the money...it doesn't matter as long as their people don't line their pockets (because lining the pockets of my righteous side means evil loses)...

Really? You're buying what they're selling because... it's the only game in town. I don't blame you, but thinking people notice.

Actually Abhisith and others have always said the transport projects were needed. I agreed, just did not agree with the high speed train and that it had to come from a 2 trillion baht loan (without checks and balances) but from the normal budget. If you look back you can find this well documented.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/abhisit-unveils-alternative-development-projects-2/

First a person has to want to know the truth.

That is not a priority item on the todo Shinawatra supporters through one group or another's list of things to do.

[Emster23]

If they end projects like high speed rail, worthless tablets for schools, other world rice scheme, then it may be all worth it.

[djjamie]

"Curiouser and curiouser", said Alice. (From Mr. Dobbs).

I think the red supporters are cheering the right reasons with the wrong people, and the yellow cheerleaders are buying what they're selling like group-think sheeple. Might means right...right?

Does anyone notice the rice farmers could not be paid, and suddenly banks are bidding for the loans to pay them? That is absolutely weird. And one month ago all the yellow supporters were slamming any infrastructure projects, although they are badly needed here? Now, suddenly, officials are talking about infrastructure projects?

From an objective standpoint, the only thing that changed was not who was in power, but who could grant the contracts...and to whom... Like DizBang likes to say...follow the money.

You are buying what they're selling, and calling it gospel. "It doesn't matter as long as their people get none of the money...it doesn't matter as long as their people don't line their pockets (because lining the pockets of my righteous side means evil loses)...

Really? You're buying what they're selling because... it's the only game in town. I don't blame you, but thinking people notice.

Does anyone notice the rice farmers could not be paid, and suddenly banks are bidding for the loans to pay them? That is absolutely weird.

No it isn't. The Junta is not in caretaker mode. The PTP were. The banks could not bid because of legality concerns due to the caretaker status of the govt and they didn't want to undermine the confidence of their investors. Under the Junta it is legal.

slamming any infrastructure projects

Before I loved the infrastructure projects (except high speed trains). I didn't like the funding side due to breaking of democratic principles and lack of transparency. Today i still love the infrastructure projects (except the trains) and if the military try to borrow 2.2 trillion out of budget I will be as vocal as I was before with my disapproval of this funding side. If they push high speed trains I will be as vocal as I was before as well.

But that is just me.

[moe666]

The projects are very sensible. There is every reason for them to proceed as planned.

Yes - because the current infrastructure we have is so advanced isnt it. broken track, broken stock basic carriages, 100 year old stations, signals lights.............Im not a train expert but i think thailand trains need to be upgraded before we can build up to super level.How many hours from BKK to Chiang mai?

BKK to CNX 1 hr. and 15 min. why would any one ride the train .

[VocalNeal]

The projects are very sensible. There is every reason for them to proceed as planned.

Yes - because the current infrastructure we have is so advanced isnt it. broken track, broken stock basic carriages, 100 year old stations, signals lights.............Im not a train expert but i think thailand trains need to be upgraded before we can build up to super level.How many hours from BKK to Chiang mai?

BKK to CNX 1 hr. and 15 min. why would any one ride the train .

I think any high speed train system will be about freight not about people. That's why it goes to Nong Khai.

[FangFerang]

The infrastructure is falling apart. There are a lot of reasons to upgrade buses, trains and even taxis...but the information stream is narrow and people do not know what to think. Today, there are several good stories floating between BP, Nation and (yuck) Khaosad, but none are posted here by the mods.

One good example is the junta stating that they intervened to prevent Thailand from becoming a failed state -- a logical, intelligent and sound argument for the current events. I don't even agree with it, but can accept it.

TVF used to be a news clearinghouse. I think, sorry to say, that online traffic has nosedived and The TVF semigods are playing way too safe (two situations that reinforce each other). Not quoting a pro-junta article from Khaosad is like ignoring the kitchen fire because "Fawlty Towers" is on the telly.

Come on Mods -- there is safe news that you are not posting. What's NOT up?

[englishoak]

Thailand dosnt have a national rail system to speak of just a clapped out piece of junk, Who needs new technology and high speed rail anyway right ?.. Thailands existing railway just needs a polish. ​

By all means let the infrastructure rot, build out of date new lines when its only absolutely desperate and spend a fortune on something already out of date and maintaining it, then watch other countries overtake that are forward thinking, forget about modernising the country lets build more roads more cars and plane...... what vision.

Get a grip, the expense is an investment for the future century not 10 years, if the taps into private bank accounts arnt turned on theres no reason to look at it as anything but an investment in the countries future.

Unless of course some are more interested in scoring political points

[Baerboxer]

Thailand has problems paying the farmers yet is looking at high cost infrastructure.

Remember the ill fated Hopewell rail project in Bangkok?

The problems with Hopewell were under a Democrat administration. While I understand a level of apprehension about the cost of these proposals, they represent the kind of forward thinking that Thailand has lacked in the past. Becoming a transpot and logistics hub is central to Thailand's economic development. I hope they are not thrown out just because they originated under PTP.

You seem to be implying that the projects are reflective of the political parties abilities which they are not. The Hopewell problems were not down to the administration of the time. Similarly, both major parties are in favor of the significant infrastructure which is necessary if Thailand hopes to be the ASEAN logistics hub. The issue with the PTP idea was the high-speed train, which seemed very expensive and not the best solution and more importantly their wish to borrow a massive 2,2 trillion whilst eliminating the controls and visibility normally associated with public spending projects, give them full discretionary spending authority and no transparency.

Whatever future administration is in power, they need to select the best solutions and projects, with full public accountability including EIA's and public consultations where appropriate.

[Baerboxer]

Perhaps the memory is fading, but I thought the high speed train plans were originally proposed by the Democrat Party, and so may have supporters across different colours.

Two big differences. The Democrats plan included a high-speed train to Nong Khai, not Chiang Mai, to link through to China, and the money was to come from the yearly budget, so would have had proper oversight, not like the 2.2 trillion baht plan of the PTP.

That is correct and in fact I would not be surprised if the Junta follow the model that the Dem's had put forward recently.

Financially responsible, transparent, funded out of the yearly budget and it was to be democratically scrutinized by parliament. All the things the PTP bill was not.

See below.

Parliamentary oversight would be one of the 15 key principles of democracy? Tell us again what the other 14 are

So you are saying that you don't think that parliamentary oversight on a borrowing of 2.2 trillion baht is necessary. That you would have been happy to trust the PTP administration and Mr. White Lies their finance minister with spending this money however they deemed fit, with no transparency, accountability, checks or balances?

Tell us again, what led you to conclude they were so trustworthy?

[Jay Sata]

A lot of these projects are just pie in the sky with no hope of ever becoming feasible.

The long distance road that is suppose to link Burma with Vietnam has been mooted for years but who will use it .

Thaksin talked of a railway from Khon Kaen to Mukdahan but that was hot air.

High speed trains don't work on lines used for freight so how would the Bangkok to Nong Khai link work.

Worse still how on earth would the line be secured from animal and human trespass?

The regular collisions between trains and road traffic would take on a new dimension.

Thailand can not run its bus services without regular accidents so who would ever risk boarding a high sped train?

Edited May 29, 2014 by Jay Sata

[BlackCedar]

Perhaps the memory is fading, but I thought the high speed train plans were originally proposed by the Democrat Party, and so may have supporters across different colours.

The thought came from China at first, who wanted to install and pay for the trains... When PTP came to power they told the Chinese to Frig off and the Thais themselves would pay for the scheme but buy Chinese trains.. The reasons behind that are obvious.. Big Corruption.... cannot allow the Chinese to make all the moneys... but can get the backhanders from buying the trains and selling the building contracts... Big brother was wringing his hands in glee.... The house of cards has collapsed.. Thank Buddha... Thank the Army....

[EyesWideOpen]

It takes a couple of weeks to see who is onboard with the junta and then get right on the money.

Does Asia seem a bit mysterious times ?? No problem, just follow the money.

I am a bit astounded at the military raising this transportation bill boondoggle.

Thought they were smarter than that. There is no need for a high speed rail

service from Bangkok to Chiang Mai. The peasants will not be able to afford

the ticket costs, and the rich people will be flying overhead in jets.....

Regarding the Nong Khai to Bangkok proposal , that is simply opening up a Chinese

invasion route...... How about fixing up existing roads, and not worry about raking

off 30 % tea money fees for new mega infrastructure projects...

[Jay Sata]

China has some great high speed trains. However air fares are so cheap these days that I would question if passenger traffic could fund such trains.

Bangkok to China is quick and and with all the low cost operators very reasonable.

Who would ride these new trains.

[noitom]

Why is this military dictatorship reviewing investment infrastructure projects? This should be deferred by them until an election is held and there is a civilian government. This news points out how out of hand the Thai situation is.