NACC resuming inquiry into rice pledging scheme

[Robby nz]

@Billsmart

It was the finance ministry about 5 days ago that estimated the losses at 500Bn and the missing rice at about 3m Tonnes.

These are estimates rather than rumours, but need to be investigated.

You are asking for proof positive, that is why they do the investigation to find out where the discrepancy comes from

Go look for the item in the finance section of the BK Post 28/5/2014. Ministry : rice losses under 500 billion. (use search)

in that article the ministry says the loss MAY be under 500 billion.

[billsmart]

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

Honest bill i tried to follow your logic but failed, So you believe any person who was involved in the loss of 500 billion + missing rice has since this coup turned to alcohol?

My logic should be easy to follow. I asked "are there specific charges?" I could add 'against specific people'? You seem to believe there is a loss of 500 billion baht and missing rice. From where or whom did you hear these figures and reports? I've heard rumors and allegations of this too, but that was during the Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt tug-of-war and very subject to skepticism - at least IMO. Is that what this NACC investigation is about?

And 500 billion baht is certainly hyperbole, isn't it? The junta's current payments of the delayed payments are said to total 92 billion. In my area about 2/3 of the farmers had already been paid by the former government. Event if that was only 1/2 my quick math tells me the total couldn't be much more than 200 billion. Where did the claim 500 billion loss come from? And even at that there is no "loss" of 500 or 200 billion. There is still rice to sell, isn't there? And the program never was intended to make a profit or even break even, was it? It was a subsidy. The government bought rice at above-market prices and was then to sell it overseas. Any difference would be made up out of the general fund. That's how a subsidy works.

Is there rice missing? Again, I've heard rumors and allegations of this but have seen no definite accounting. I assume the NACC investigation will cover this also and determine if there is, how much and whether this is due to mismanagement or theft.

My alcohol analogy might be harder to follow. It was in response to GoodThaiGirl's remark that "thailand is much more happier (sic) and stable since 9 days ago". It was merely to remind that some things bring happiness in the short term, but not always a happiness that lasts.

Thanks for engaging with me in a discussion about the Rice Pledging Scheme. I really do want to know why so many Farangs and Thais on this forum seem to be so vehemently disgusted and opposed to it, when in my experience out here in the rural areas it was seen to be of great benefit to the famers and farming communities. It's hard to distinguish between the objections focusing on the program itself, or on just the alleged mismanagement of the program, or just a dislike of the former government in general.

Your (or anyone else's) comments would be appreciated...

For starters you had better look into who people define as the farmers.

You can ask most of the farmers in Thailand --have you any money due that should have been paid back--answer NO. Because most of these peasant farmers only grow for themselves and sell off stored surplus out of their rice house when funds are needed.

leaving large land owners/or lessees more in the picture. Then the big boys the middlemen--millers--rice farm storage, this is the bracket where I would think the corruption would take place--and where government failed.

ginjag: I think your information is incorrect. It is at least for the rice farmers in my area. My wife is a rice farmer and has rice land co-located with many other farmers. Most of these are what I would call small farmers - 5 rai to no more than 100 rai each. There are a few small farmers that only have a couple rai or so that grow rice, sometimes cooperatively with two or three families, only for their own consumption, but they are an exception. My wife has 24 rai. There are no large-scale rice farmers in our local area.

When my wife sold her crop to the government in late Nov 2013 she was given receipts and turned them in to the local Farmer's Bank along with every farmer I know of. I only know of 2 farmers in our area (that's 2 out of 30 or so) that did not sell their crop to the government. The government usually pays within 2 weeks of the time the receipts are turned in to the bank. Before these payments were made the former government was dissolved and the Caretaker government found out it did not have the authority to acquire the funds to make these payments. In our local bank my wife was 996 in a queue of about 1200. The queue was ordered by the date you turned in your receipts. The payments from the government came in regularly all during the Caretaker government, albeit slowly, sometimes only 20 or so on the queue were paid a week. By the time of the coup the bank had paid up to around 800 or so on the queue. That math tells me that by the time of the coup the Caretaker Government had paid about 3/4 of those on their queue. I don't know what percentage of the total money owed those in the queue that was, but about 3/4 of the individual farmers in the queue had been paid. My wife was finally paid on Friday of this week, but there are still farmers waiting for payment. I think this last delay is due to local banking administration and bookwork.

Thanks however for the suggestion that much of this alleged corruption and theft might be at the level of the middlemen who have contracted with the government to receive, weigh, grade and store or deliver the rice to the government. And yes, if that had happened it would be mismanagement of these local contractors and that is the responsibility of the government. Whether it rises to criminal actions, and if so how far up those go is another question entirely - and one I assume this NACC inquiry will be probing.

[billsmart]

Under the news censorship rules. I am expecting everybody who has ever had anything to do with the Shins to be found guilty of many crimes. Next will be anybody who has been associated with the UDD and then it will be anybody who is critical of the army. Then everybody who demands elctions.

They will all be guilty.

Jeeze guy, give it a rest. Your side lost, in spades.

The former government didn't lose "in spades", they lost because of a trump card. When the decks have been sufficiently shuffled, the cards re-dealt, the bidding concluded and a new contract made we'll then be able to see who the winners and losers will be. But of course there's always the trump card...

Edited May 31, 2014 by billsmart

[patjem]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

yes hunting down the thieves khun bill.they have been doing so for over a year..but yinluck said ..when she was the puppet pm that it only took 3 weeks..because that was what someone told her to say...like it or hate it thailand is much more happier and stable since 9 days ago..except for a couple of pundits on here..

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

Honest bill i tried to follow your logic but failed, So you believe any person who was involved in the loss of 500 billion + missing rice has since this coup turned to alcohol?

My logic should be easy to follow. I asked "are there specific charges?" I could add 'against specific people'? You seem to believe there is a loss of 500 billion baht and missing rice. From where or whom did you hear these figures and reports? I've heard rumors and allegations of this too, but that was during the Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt tug-of-war and very subject to skepticism - at least IMO. Is that what this NACC investigation is about?

And 500 billion baht is certainly hyperbole, isn't it? The junta's current payments of the delayed payments are said to total 92 billion. In my area about 2/3 of the farmers had already been paid by the former government. Event if that was only 1/2 my quick math tells me the total couldn't be much more than 200 billion. Where did the claim 500 billion loss come from? And even at that there is no "loss" of 500 or 200 billion. There is still rice to sell, isn't there? And the program never was intended to make a profit or even break even, was it? It was a subsidy. The government bought rice at above-market prices and was then to sell it overseas. Any difference would be made up out of the general fund. That's how a subsidy works.

Is there rice missing? Again, I've heard rumors and allegations of this but have seen no definite accounting. I assume the NACC investigation will cover this also and determine if there is, how much and whether this is due to mismanagement or theft.

My alcohol analogy might be harder to follow. It was in response to GoodThaiGirl's remark that "thailand is much more happier (sic) and stable since 9 days ago". It was merely to remind that some things bring happiness in the short term, but not always a happiness that lasts.

Thanks for engaging with me in a discussion about the Rice Pledging Scheme. I really do want to know why so many Farangs and Thais on this forum seem to be so vehemently disgusted and opposed to it, when in my experience out here in the rural areas it was seen to be of great benefit to the famers and farming communities. It's hard to distinguish between the objections focusing on the program itself, or on just the alleged mismanagement of the program, or just a dislike of the former government in general.

Your (or anyone else's) comments would be appreciated...

Does that mean that you seem to believe there would not be "a lot" of money lost, when the former government pledged higher than market value for rice from the farmers? Whatever the exact figure proves in the end to be, and we probably will never know for sure, it's blatant idiocy. You can spin it whatever way you wish, but that's the fact.

There are much more suitable ways to help the farmers than the ridiculous scheme which PTP introduced, such as subsidies on the ferris era, etc.

Edited May 31, 2014 by patjem

[ginjag]

My logic should be easy to follow. I asked "are there specific charges?" I could add 'against specific people'? You seem to believe there is a loss of 500 billion baht and missing rice. From where or whom did you hear these figures and reports? I've heard rumors and allegations of this too, but that was during the Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt tug-of-war and very subject to skepticism - at least IMO. Is that what this NACC investigation is about?

And 500 billion baht is certainly hyperbole, isn't it? The junta's current payments of the delayed payments are said to total 92 billion. In my area about 2/3 of the farmers had already been paid by the former government. Event if that was only 1/2 my quick math tells me the total couldn't be much more than 200 billion. Where did the claim 500 billion loss come from? And even at that there is no "loss" of 500 or 200 billion. There is still rice to sell, isn't there? And the program never was intended to make a profit or even break even, was it? It was a subsidy. The government bought rice at above-market prices and was then to sell it overseas. Any difference would be made up out of the general fund. That's how a subsidy works.

Is there rice missing? Again, I've heard rumors and allegations of this but have seen no definite accounting. I assume the NACC investigation will cover this also and determine if there is, how much and whether this is due to mismanagement or theft.

My alcohol analogy might be harder to follow. It was in response to GoodThaiGirl's remark that "thailand is much more happier (sic) and stable since 9 days ago". It was merely to remind that some things bring happiness in the short term, but not always a happiness that lasts.

Thanks for engaging with me in a discussion about the Rice Pledging Scheme. I really do want to know why so many Farangs and Thais on this forum seem to be so vehemently disgusted and opposed to it, when in my experience out here in the rural areas it was seen to be of great benefit to the famers and farming communities. It's hard to distinguish between the objections focusing on the program itself, or on just the alleged mismanagement of the program, or just a dislike of the former government in general.

Your (or anyone else's) comments would be appreciated...

For starters you had better look into who people define as the farmers.

You can ask most of the farmers in Thailand --have you any money due that should have been paid back--answer NO. Because most of these peasant farmers only grow for themselves and sell off stored surplus out of their rice house when funds are needed.

leaving large land owners/or lessees more in the picture. Then the big boys the middlemen--millers--rice farm storage, this is the bracket where I would think the corruption would take place--and where government failed.

ginjag: I think your information is incorrect. It is at least for the rice farmers in my area. My wife is a rice farmer and has rice land co-located with many other farmers. Most of these are what I would call small farmers - 5 rai to no more than 100 rai each. There are a few small farmers that only have a couple rai or so that grow rice, sometimes cooperatively with two or three families, only for their own consumption, but they are an exception. My wife has 24 rai. There are no large-scale rice farmers in our local area.

When my wife sold her crop to the government in late Nov 2013 she was given receipts and turned them in to the local Farmer's Bank along with every farmer I know of. I only know of 2 farmers in our area (that's 2 out of 30 or so) that did not sell their crop to the government. The government usually pays within 2 weeks of the time the receipts are turned in to the bank. Before these payments were made the former government was dissolved and the Caretaker government found out it did not have the authority to acquire the funds to make these payments. In our local bank my wife was 996 in a queue of about 1200. The queue was ordered by the date you turned in your receipts. The payments from the government came in regularly all during the Caretaker government, albeit slowly, sometimes only 20 or so on the queue were paid a week. By the time of the coup the bank had paid up to around 800 or so on the queue. That math tells me that by the time of the coup the Caretaker Government had paid about 3/4 of those on their queue. I don't know what percentage of the total money owed those in the queue that was, but about 3/4 of the individual farmers in the queue had been paid. My wife was finally paid on Friday of this week, but there are still farmers waiting for payment. I think this last delay is due to local banking administration and bookwork.

Thanks however for the suggestion that much of this alleged corruption and theft might be at the level of the middlemen who have contracted with the government to receive, weigh, grade and store or deliver the rice to the government. And yes, if that had happened it would be mismanagement of these local contractors and that is the responsibility of the government. Whether it rises to criminal actions, and if so how far up those go is another question entirely - and one I assume this NACC inquiry will be probing.

Areas do differ so much, In the Jangwat Udon Thani I lived in a small rural area, near all were the type who planted for themselves.

very few had not enough area to have a surplus to sell to government.

I moved to Jangwat Nong Bua Lampu, very rural again, same there near all self supporting planting for home consumption. Sticky rice.

[rametindallas]

No more party line to toe.... It's 'spill ya guts' time.

Plea deals work wonders. "I'll rat them all out. Please go easy on me". I hope they don't let the big fish off too easy.

[rametindallas]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

Duuuh... Do you shoot first and then go hunting? Of course they have to find evidence, by 'hunting' for it, before any charges are laid. A sophisticated criminal syndicate known as Puea Thai Party (headed by a fugitive, convicted felon) has methodically concealed the truth for several years. Their criminality is not on display and must be thoroughly researched if you want justice.

[Trembly]

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

Honest bill i tried to follow your logic but failed, So you believe any person who was involved in the loss of 500 billion + missing rice has since this coup turned to alcohol?

My logic should be easy to follow. I asked "are there specific charges?" I could add 'against specific people'? You seem to believe there is a loss of 500 billion baht and missing rice. From where or whom did you hear these figures and reports? I've heard rumors and allegations of this too, but that was during the Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt tug-of-war and very subject to skepticism - at least IMO. Is that what this NACC investigation is about?

And 500 billion baht is certainly hyperbole, isn't it? The junta's current payments of the delayed payments are said to total 92 billion. In my area about 2/3 of the farmers had already been paid by the former government. Event if that was only 1/2 my quick math tells me the total couldn't be much more than 200 billion. Where did the claim 500 billion loss come from? And even at that there is no "loss" of 500 or 200 billion. There is still rice to sell, isn't there? And the program never was intended to make a profit or even break even, was it? It was a subsidy. The government bought rice at above-market prices and was then to sell it overseas. Any difference would be made up out of the general fund. That's how a subsidy works.

Is there rice missing? Again, I've heard rumors and allegations of this but have seen no definite accounting. I assume the NACC investigation will cover this also and determine if there is, how much and whether this is due to mismanagement or theft.

My alcohol analogy might be harder to follow. It was in response to GoodThaiGirl's remark that "thailand is much more happier (sic) and stable since 9 days ago". It was merely to remind that some things bring happiness in the short term, but not always a happiness that lasts.

Thanks for engaging with me in a discussion about the Rice Pledging Scheme. I really do want to know why so many Farangs and Thais on this forum seem to be so vehemently disgusted and opposed to it, when in my experience out here in the rural areas it was seen to be of great benefit to the famers and farming communities. It's hard to distinguish between the objections focusing on the program itself, or on just the alleged mismanagement of the program, or just a dislike of the former government in general.

Your (or anyone else's) comments would be appreciated...

For starters you had better look into who people define as the farmers.

You can ask most of the farmers in Thailand --have you any money due that should have been paid back--answer NO. Because most of these peasant farmers only grow for themselves and sell off stored surplus out of their rice house when funds are needed.

leaving large land owners/or lessees more in the picture. Then the big boys the middlemen--millers--rice farm storage, this is the bracket where I would think the corruption would take place--and where government failed.

The poorest farmers in greatest need of help actually didn't even qualify for the scheme due to the acreage threshold.

[phutoie2]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

Duuuh... Do you shoot first and then go hunting? Of course they have to find evidence, by 'hunting' for it, before any charges are laid. A sophisticated criminal syndicate known as Puea Thai Party (headed by a fugitive, convicted felon) has methodically concealed the truth for several years. Their criminality is not on display and must be thoroughly researched if you want justice.

Yes and the military junta will do just that. Calm down, nothing to do with you.

[rametindallas]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

yes hunting down the thieves khun bill.they have been doing so for over a year..but yinluck said ..when she was the puppet pm that it only took 3 weeks..because that was what someone told her to say...like it or hate it thailand is much more happier and stable since 9 days ago..except for a couple of pundits on here..

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

Honest bill i tried to follow your logic but failed, So you believe any person who was involved in the loss of 500 billion + missing rice has since this coup turned to alcohol?

My logic should be easy to follow. I asked "are there specific charges?" I could add 'against specific people'? You seem to believe there is a loss of 500 billion baht and missing rice. From where or whom did you hear these figures and reports? I've heard rumors and allegations of this too, but that was during the Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt tug-of-war and very subject to skepticism - at least IMO. Is that what this NACC investigation is about?

And 500 billion baht is certainly hyperbole, isn't it? The junta's current payments of the delayed payments are said to total 92 billion. In my area about 2/3 of the farmers had already been paid by the former government. Event if that was only 1/2 my quick math tells me the total couldn't be much more than 200 billion. Where did the claim 500 billion loss come from? And even at that there is no "loss" of 500 or 200 billion. There is still rice to sell, isn't there? And the program never was intended to make a profit or even break even, was it? It was a subsidy. The government bought rice at above-market prices and was then to sell it overseas. Any difference would be made up out of the general fund. That's how a subsidy works.

Is there rice missing? Again, I've heard rumors and allegations of this but have seen no definite accounting. I assume the NACC investigation will cover this also and determine if there is, how much and whether this is due to mismanagement or theft.

My alcohol analogy might be harder to follow. It was in response to GoodThaiGirl's remark that "thailand is much more happier (sic) and stable since 9 days ago". It was merely to remind that some things bring happiness in the short term, but not always a happiness that lasts.

Thanks for engaging with me in a discussion about the Rice Pledging Scheme. I really do want to know why so many Farangs and Thais on this forum seem to be so vehemently disgusted and opposed to it, when in my experience out here in the rural areas it was seen to be of great benefit to the famers and farming communities. It's hard to distinguish between the objections focusing on the program itself, or on just the alleged mismanagement of the program, or just a dislike of the former government in general.

Your (or anyone else's) comments would be appreciated...

Does that mean that you seem to believe there would not be "a lot" of money lost, when the former government pledged higher than market value for rice from the farmers? Whatever the exact figure proves in the end to be, and we probably will never know for sure, it's blatant idiocy. You can spin it whatever way you wish, but that's the fact.

There are much more suitable ways to help the farmers than the ridiculous scheme which PTP introduced, such as subsidies on the ferris era, etc.

Buy for X+40% Sell for X = loss every time. Simple math. How long can a government lose money for no benefit to anyone, excepting members of the government and their cronies? At the end of the program, Thai rice farmers are still the least productive in SE Asia and more deeply in debt. Bill would like to expand his personal experience as the reality for the whole country and ignore the government statistics that show most rice farmers did not qualify for the program as their operations are too small (no help for them and their fertilizer expenses went up just the same). Now the farmers will have to sell their rice in direct competition with the government, which has huge stockpiles to put on the world market, further reducing the prices the farmers can get for their hard work. Bill is either mentally challenged to think the program was a success and could continue indefinitely, or he is a troll. Since he can string sentences together, I have decided he is a troll. I may be wrong, though.

[rametindallas]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

Duuuh... Do you shoot first and then go hunting? Of course they have to find evidence, by 'hunting' for it, before any charges are laid. A sophisticated criminal syndicate known as Puea Thai Party (headed by a fugitive, convicted felon) has methodically concealed the truth for several years. Their criminality is not on display and must be thoroughly researched if you want justice.

Yes and the military junta will do just that. Calm down, nothing to do with you.

Yes and the military junta will do just that. Who said they wouldn't?

Calm down, nothing to do with you. How would you know that?

Mind your own business. If I wand a response from you I'll let you know, Mr. Buttinski.

[Eric Loh]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

Duuuh... Do you shoot first and then go hunting? Of course they have to find evidence, by 'hunting' for it, before any charges are laid. A sophisticated criminal syndicate known as Puea Thai Party (headed by a fugitive, convicted felon) has methodically concealed the truth for several years. Their criminality is not on display and must be thoroughly researched if you want justice.

Yes and the military junta will do just that. Calm down, nothing to do with you.

Yes and the military junta will do just that. Who said they wouldn't?

Calm down, nothing to do with you. How would you know that?

Mind your own business. If I wand a response from you I'll let you know, Mr. Buttinski.

Are you what we call a 'cyber bully'?

[rametindallas]

Are you what we call a 'cyber bully'?

If you don't start any sh*t, there won't be any. Classify me as you will and challenge me at your peril. Som nom na.

[Chris Lawrence]

My logic should be easy to follow. I asked "are there specific charges?" I could add 'against specific people'? You seem to believe there is a loss of 500 billion baht and missing rice. From where or whom did you hear these figures and reports? I've heard rumors and allegations of this too, but that was during the Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt tug-of-war and very subject to skepticism - at least IMO. Is that what this NACC investigation is about?

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

And 500 billion baht is certainly hyperbole, isn't it? The junta's current payments of the delayed payments are said to total 92 billion. In my area about 2/3 of the farmers had already been paid by the former government. Event if that was only 1/2 my quick math tells me the total couldn't be much more than 200 billion. Where did the claim 500 billion loss come from? And even at that there is no "loss" of 500 or 200 billion. There is still rice to sell, isn't there? And the program never was intended to make a profit or even break even, was it? It was a subsidy. The government bought rice at above-market prices and was then to sell it overseas. Any difference would be made up out of the general fund. That's how a subsidy works.

Is there rice missing? Again, I've heard rumors and allegations of this but have seen no definite accounting. I assume the NACC investigation will cover this also and determine if there is, how much and whether this is due to mismanagement or theft.

My alcohol analogy might be harder to follow. It was in response to GoodThaiGirl's remark that "thailand is much more happier (sic) and stable since 9 days ago". It was merely to remind that some things bring happiness in the short term, but not always a happiness that lasts.

Thanks for engaging with me in a discussion about the Rice Pledging Scheme. I really do want to know why so many Farangs and Thais on this forum seem to be so vehemently disgusted and opposed to it, when in my experience out here in the rural areas it was seen to be of great benefit to the famers and farming communities. It's hard to distinguish between the objections focusing on the program itself, or on just the alleged mismanagement of the program, or just a dislike of the former government in general.

Your (or anyone else's) comments would be appreciated...

For starters you had better look into who people define as the farmers.

You can ask most of the farmers in Thailand --have you any money due that should have been paid back--answer NO. Because most of these peasant farmers only grow for themselves and sell off stored surplus out of their rice house when funds are needed.

leaving large land owners/or lessees more in the picture. Then the big boys the middlemen--millers--rice farm storage, this is the bracket where I would think the corruption would take place--and where government failed.

ginjag: I think your information is incorrect. It is at least for the rice farmers in my area. My wife is a rice farmer and has rice land co-located with many other farmers. Most of these are what I would call small farmers - 5 rai to no more than 100 rai each. There are a few small farmers that only have a couple rai or so that grow rice, sometimes cooperatively with two or three families, only for their own consumption, but they are an exception. My wife has 24 rai. There are no large-scale rice farmers in our local area.

When my wife sold her crop to the government in late Nov 2013 she was given receipts and turned them in to the local Farmer's Bank along with every farmer I know of. I only know of 2 farmers in our area (that's 2 out of 30 or so) that did not sell their crop to the government. The government usually pays within 2 weeks of the time the receipts are turned in to the bank. Before these payments were made the former government was dissolved and the Caretaker government found out it did not have the authority to acquire the funds to make these payments. In our local bank my wife was 996 in a queue of about 1200. The queue was ordered by the date you turned in your receipts. The payments from the government came in regularly all during the Caretaker government, albeit slowly, sometimes only 20 or so on the queue were paid a week. By the time of the coup the bank had paid up to around 800 or so on the queue. That math tells me that by the time of the coup the Caretaker Government had paid about 3/4 of those on their queue. I don't know what percentage of the total money owed those in the queue that was, but about 3/4 of the individual farmers in the queue had been paid. My wife was finally paid on Friday of this week, but there are still farmers waiting for payment. I think this last delay is due to local banking administration and bookwork.

Thanks however for the suggestion that much of this alleged corruption and theft might be at the level of the middlemen who have contracted with the government to receive, weigh, grade and store or deliver the rice to the government. And yes, if that had happened it would be mismanagement of these local contractors and that is the responsibility of the government. Whether it rises to criminal actions, and if so how far up those go is another question entirely - and one I assume this NACC inquiry will be probing.

Thanks Billsmart for your posts. Always Interesting to hear from someone that has experience with the subject. A lot of hearsay seems to appear in posts, a bit like Chinese whispers. Again, just refreshing to hear experience on this board.

[Bakseeda]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

yes hunting down the thieves khun bill.they have been doing so for over a year..but yinluck said ..when she was the puppet pm that it only took 3 weeks..because that was what someone told her to say...like it or hate it thailand is much more happier and stable since 9 days ago..except for a couple of pundits on here..

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

what Planet do YOU come from.... a good thing...Haha..... Shame on you and your wife....

[FangFerang]

Well, it's been quiet in Bangkok. No Red grenade assaults or PDRC guards stabbing people into comas.

In the quiet, we see the NACC investigating the rice subsidy. We see the junta following the PDRC plan almost religiously. We have a road map to elections...and we also have a PDRC celebration at a French restaurant; a reconciliation party in the North attended only by minority PDRC people there, outright expressing their political views without retribution (who remark that they enjoyed expressing their views while the majority local red shirts watched 'from a distance').

Now every yellow supporter on TVF writes notes like their team won the Ashes, and slyly commenting that no one can verbally oppose them (brilliant observation there).

Looks like everyone feels like they win but everyone loses.

Looks like nothing changed, really. Not one red (now the opposition) has done anything but bow out of politics. The idiots that ranted succession should bow out! Those rants were monumentally stupid, at best.

But all the yellows are not innocent, and all the reds are not thugs.

It was my sincere hope that General Prayuth was walking a tight wire, and had been even handed in corralling both sides. It was my sincere hope that pressure would be evenly applied to stop the pressure cooker from blowing up. It was my sincere hope that court cases on both sides would show even handed justice. It was my sincere hope that we would see constitutional amendments that placed many categories of policy that have been abused by both sides out of reach by requiring a 'super-majority' -- whiuch would mean whoever was in power would have to negotiate with the other sdie if they liked it or not.

Instead I think no PDRC guard will suffer anything more than a slap on the wrist for the many things they have done. Instead I think we will see a dismantling of the leaders of the red movement, which is only treating the symptoms. Now it is fashionable to be yellow, and it's okay to be political as long as you are on the accepted side.

Instead I think we are seeing Frankenstein rise -- a Frankenstein with excellent plastic surgery.

Pretty, isn't he? I am sure he would be happy to have any one of us for lunch.

[Crushdepth]

Under the news censorship rules. I am expecting everybody who has ever had anything to do with the Shins to be found guilty of many crimes. Next will be anybody who has been associated with the UDD and then it will be anybody who is critical of the army. Then everybody who demands elctions.

They will all be guilty.

Jeeze guy, give it a rest. Your side lost, in spades.

Democracy has not lost, it is just taking a rest. The people of Thailand will, one day, have democracy again and the Ammart will take it away again, but eventually democracy will triumph.

It is just a matter of time and the people are getting stronger.

Oh The People's this, The People's that, spare us the commie <deleted>. There is no "people" this is a divided country. Speaking of "the people" as if they are a single group and all of one mind is an embarrassingly cheap theatrical device.

Thaksin's rampant abuse of the system has set Thai democracy back 10-15 years. His main service to the country has been to highlight the pathetic and broken state of governance in Thailand. The system needs better anti-tamper controls to curtail the excesses of such people.

[Eric Loh]

Are you what we call a 'cyber bully'?

If you don't start any sh*t, there won't be any. Classify me as you will and challenge me at your peril. Som nom na.

Watch you language. You are frightening the children.

[rametindallas]

Are you what we call a 'cyber bully'?

If you don't start any sh*t, there won't be any. Classify me as you will and challenge me at your peril. Som nom na.

Watch you language. You are frightening the children.

Eric, I have not commented much on your posts. They are generally so ridiculous that they don't warrant a response from me. You have as much as called me a cyber-bully. Why are you trying to taunt me now? Don't you have anything to say that the forum might be interested in reading? If not, and you just want to pick a pointless argument, I shall put you on my ignore list. Now, be a good boy and run along.

[ginjag]

Are you what we call a 'cyber bully'?

If you don't start any sh*t, there won't be any. Classify me as you will and challenge me at your peril. Som nom na.

Watch you language. You are frightening the children.

I didn't read any bad language, only a typo.

What he said was true, After being elected, who started it, Suthep-Dems- NO----- PTP policy's etc you know the rest.

Difficult to answer really when an elected party cheats the country, bare faced in office.

[smutcakes]

Well, it's been quiet in Bangkok. No Red grenade assaults or PDRC guards stabbing people into comas.

In the quiet, we see the NACC investigating the rice subsidy. We see the junta following the PDRC plan almost religiously. We have a road map to elections...and we also have a PDRC celebration at a French restaurant; a reconciliation party in the North attended only by minority PDRC people there, outright expressing their political views without retribution (who remark that they enjoyed expressing their views while the majority local red shirts watched 'from a distance').

Now every yellow supporter on TVF writes notes like their team won the Ashes, and slyly commenting that no one can verbally oppose them (brilliant observation there).

Looks like everyone feels like they win but everyone loses.

Looks like nothing changed, really. Not one red (now the opposition) has done anything but bow out of politics. The idiots that ranted succession should bow out! Those rants were monumentally stupid, at best.

But all the yellows are not innocent, and all the reds are not thugs.

It was my sincere hope that General Prayuth was walking a tight wire, and had been even handed in corralling both sides. It was my sincere hope that pressure would be evenly applied to stop the pressure cooker from blowing up. It was my sincere hope that court cases on both sides would show even handed justice. It was my sincere hope that we would see constitutional amendments that placed many categories of policy that have been abused by both sides out of reach by requiring a 'super-majority' -- whiuch would mean whoever was in power would have to negotiate with the other sdie if they liked it or not.

Instead I think no PDRC guard will suffer anything more than a slap on the wrist for the many things they have done. Instead I think we will see a dismantling of the leaders of the red movement, which is only treating the symptoms. Now it is fashionable to be yellow, and it's okay to be political as long as you are on the accepted side.

Instead I think we are seeing Frankenstein rise -- a Frankenstein with excellent plastic surgery.

Pretty, isn't he? I am sure he would be happy to have any one of us for lunch.

Is so transparent its as if they are not even bother to hide how this thing is working.

As soon as censorship blocks are lifted there is going to be uproar.

TS was hated for corruption, cronyism, populist policies, vote buying, putting his friends and supporters in top positions, people without the correct qualifications being put in top positions.

It is only 2 weeks into the current administration, and you could make a strong argument that they have ticked all but a couple of those boxes already.

[northernjohn]

I wonder if they'll go for the organ grinder or just be satisfied with his monkeys.

I don't think they will be able to touch the organ grinder as he lives in Dubai and has safely eluded justice now for about 6 years. Not sure if his crimes would be considered worth while for Interpol to get involved.

Defiantly take sown his monkeys and be harsh with them. Send a message to his other monkeys that they are the ones left holding the bag and will pay big time for it. Should break his grip on the nation.

[northernjohn]

Well, it's been quiet in Bangkok. No Red grenade assaults or PDRC guards stabbing people into comas.

In the quiet, we see the NACC investigating the rice subsidy. We see the junta following the PDRC plan almost religiously. We have a road map to elections...and we also have a PDRC celebration at a French restaurant; a reconciliation party in the North attended only by minority PDRC people there, outright expressing their political views without retribution (who remark that they enjoyed expressing their views while the majority local red shirts watched 'from a distance').

Now every yellow supporter on TVF writes notes like their team won the Ashes, and slyly commenting that no one can verbally oppose them (brilliant observation there).

Looks like everyone feels like they win but everyone loses.

Looks like nothing changed, really. Not one red (now the opposition) has done anything but bow out of politics. The idiots that ranted succession should bow out! Those rants were monumentally stupid, at best.

But all the yellows are not innocent, and all the reds are not thugs.

It was my sincere hope that General Prayuth was walking a tight wire, and had been even handed in corralling both sides. It was my sincere hope that pressure would be evenly applied to stop the pressure cooker from blowing up. It was my sincere hope that court cases on both sides would show even handed justice. It was my sincere hope that we would see constitutional amendments that placed many categories of policy that have been abused by both sides out of reach by requiring a 'super-majority' -- whiuch would mean whoever was in power would have to negotiate with the other sdie if they liked it or not.

Instead I think no PDRC guard will suffer anything more than a slap on the wrist for the many things they have done. Instead I think we will see a dismantling of the leaders of the red movement, which is only treating the symptoms. Now it is fashionable to be yellow, and it's okay to be political as long as you are on the accepted side.

Instead I think we are seeing Frankenstein rise -- a Frankenstein with excellent plastic surgery.

Pretty, isn't he? I am sure he would be happy to have any one of us for lunch.

Is so transparent its as if they are not even bother to hide how this thing is working.

As soon as censorship blocks are lifted there is going to be uproar.

TS was hated for corruption, cronyism, populist policies, vote buying, putting his friends and supporters in top positions, people without the correct qualifications being put in top positions.

It is only 2 weeks into the current administration, and you could make a strong argument that they have ticked all but a couple of those boxes already.

Correct only two weeks and the steps they have taken to overcome the oppression on the nation by one man are unbelievable, No man in his right man can say that they asre a failure. As for the freedom of press well not sure whast they are holding back. The Bangkok Post talks about groups of anti Coup protestors. Where is the secret. The people to be talked to the list is made known the people released on bail is made known the people facing a court military court is made known. In short the press is no more curtailed that it was when Thaksin sat in the PM with his power to oppress it.

We have been given a 1 year schedule told what the goal is. Looking for a much more united and stronger Thailand as the result of their actions.

[smutcakes]

Well, it's been quiet in Bangkok. No Red grenade assaults or PDRC guards stabbing people into comas.

In the quiet, we see the NACC investigating the rice subsidy. We see the junta following the PDRC plan almost religiously. We have a road map to elections...and we also have a PDRC celebration at a French restaurant; a reconciliation party in the North attended only by minority PDRC people there, outright expressing their political views without retribution (who remark that they enjoyed expressing their views while the majority local red shirts watched 'from a distance').

Now every yellow supporter on TVF writes notes like their team won the Ashes, and slyly commenting that no one can verbally oppose them (brilliant observation there).

Looks like everyone feels like they win but everyone loses.

Looks like nothing changed, really. Not one red (now the opposition) has done anything but bow out of politics. The idiots that ranted succession should bow out! Those rants were monumentally stupid, at best.

But all the yellows are not innocent, and all the reds are not thugs.

It was my sincere hope that General Prayuth was walking a tight wire, and had been even handed in corralling both sides. It was my sincere hope that pressure would be evenly applied to stop the pressure cooker from blowing up. It was my sincere hope that court cases on both sides would show even handed justice. It was my sincere hope that we would see constitutional amendments that placed many categories of policy that have been abused by both sides out of reach by requiring a 'super-majority' -- whiuch would mean whoever was in power would have to negotiate with the other sdie if they liked it or not.

Instead I think no PDRC guard will suffer anything more than a slap on the wrist for the many things they have done. Instead I think we will see a dismantling of the leaders of the red movement, which is only treating the symptoms. Now it is fashionable to be yellow, and it's okay to be political as long as you are on the accepted side.

Instead I think we are seeing Frankenstein rise -- a Frankenstein with excellent plastic surgery.

Pretty, isn't he? I am sure he would be happy to have any one of us for lunch.

Is so transparent its as if they are not even bother to hide how this thing is working.

As soon as censorship blocks are lifted there is going to be uproar.

TS was hated for corruption, cronyism, populist policies, vote buying, putting his friends and supporters in top positions, people without the correct qualifications being put in top positions.

It is only 2 weeks into the current administration, and you could make a strong argument that they have ticked all but a couple of those boxes already.

Correct only two weeks and the steps they have taken to overcome the oppression on the nation by one man are unbelievable, No man in his right man can say that they asre a failure. As for the freedom of press well not sure whast they are holding back. The Bangkok Post talks about groups of anti Coup protestors. Where is the secret. The people to be talked to the list is made known the people released on bail is made known the people facing a court military court is made known. In short the press is no more curtailed that it was when Thaksin sat in the PM with his power to oppress it.

We have been given a 1 year schedule told what the goal is. Looking for a much more united and stronger Thailand as the result of their actions.

Edited June 1, 2014 by smutcakes

[Baerboxer]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

Isn't the job of an investigative agency to probe, "hunt out" the relevant facts and information? From this, they can decide if there is any evidence of crimes which could lead to specific charges.

Oh I forgot, Yingluck said there was no corruption in her administration so pointless looking there,

[Baerboxer]

Under the news censorship rules. I am expecting everybody who has ever had anything to do with the Shins to be found guilty of many crimes. Next will be anybody who has been associated with the UDD and then it will be anybody who is critical of the army. Then everybody who demands elctions.

They will all be guilty.

Jeeze guy, give it a rest. Your side lost, in spades.

Democracy has not lost, it is just taking a rest. The people of Thailand will, one day, have democracy again and the Ammart will take it away again, but eventually democracy will triumph.

It is just a matter of time and the people are getting stronger.

I applaud you for supporting democracy. I am sad for you that you believe Thaksin's way of governing was remotely democratic.

Unless you think lying, cheating, stealing, extra judicial executions, oppression of free speech, blocking of transparency and accountability are democratic of course.

Thaksin has the same brand of democracy as Mugabe, Hun Set, Amin, Gaddaffi, and all the other tin pot dictators whose families always seem to do handsomely whilst their countries don't.

[1plumber]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

yes hunting down the thieves khun bill.they have been doing so for over a year..but yinluck said ..when she was the puppet pm that it only took 3 weeks..because that was what someone told her to say...like it or hate it thailand is much more happier and stable since 9 days ago..except for a couple of pundits on here..

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

attempts at market manipulation are never a good thing. Nothing trumps a free market. Unless your open to outright hand outs with an already over burdened govt budget.

[FangFerang]

More and more...slowly....by increments, the kangaroos seem to be coming to court.

Colors be damned, the lies are becoming blatant. I wouldn't care if a purple shirt was involved....something is rotten in Denmark.

[Eric Loh]

Are there any specific charges or is this just a hunting expedition?

yes hunting down the thieves khun bill.they have been doing so for over a year..but yinluck said ..when she was the puppet pm that it only took 3 weeks..because that was what someone told her to say...like it or hate it thailand is much more happier and stable since 9 days ago..except for a couple of pundits on here..

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

attempts at market manipulation are never a good thing. Nothing trumps a free market. Unless your open to outright hand outs with an already over burdened govt budget.

We all can agree that subsidies are not a good policies and a targeted direct cash hand-outs are a better policy. But is Thailand subsidies excessive? My own opinion is that if it does not caused a current account deficit, it is not excessive. Refer to the rating agencies confidence to maintain our +BBB rating and also the Baht has not depreciated much and more in line with regional currency downgrade. Also our debt to GDP has been consistently below 50% which show that debt is well managed.

Just compare that with India where subsidies is a whopping 14% of GDP or Malaysia 7% of GDP. Indonesia subsidies which are mainly fuel is 24% of budget and Malaysia is 22%. In Thailand, where rice and other subsidies including energy, rubber etc are approximately 7-8%. As a consequent, India and Indonesia currency took quite a beating recently, not Thailand.

It's unlikely to wean Thailand from subsidies for a long while as the agri sectors are large and has most of the working population. Thailand has did quite well to avoid heavy fuel subsidy which is the mainstay of subsidy for India, Indonesia and Malaysia.

We should continue to narrow the income inequality and this is a social contract between have and have not. Coming back to the previous government rice scheme, the NACC must work in earnest to catch those involved in corruption and politicians are no exception. The scheme must also be reviewed and hopefully change to a more direct form of subsidy to the target group.

[Trembly]

Under the news censorship rules. I am expecting everybody who has ever had anything to do with the Shins to be found guilty of many crimes. Next will be anybody who has been associated with the UDD and then it will be anybody who is critical of the army. Then everybody who demands elctions.

They will all be guilty.

Jeeze guy, give it a rest. Your side lost, in spades.

Democracy has not lost, it is just taking a rest. The people of Thailand will, one day, have democracy again and the Ammart will take it away again, but eventually democracy will triumph.

It is just a matter of time and the people are getting stronger.

I applaud you for supporting democracy. I am sad for you that you believe Thaksin's way of governing was remotely democratic.

Unless you think lying, cheating, stealing, extra judicial executions, oppression of free speech, blocking of transparency and accountability are democratic of course.

Thaksin has the same brand of democracy as Mugabe, Hun Set, Amin, Gaddaffi, and all the other tin pot dictators whose families always seem to do handsomely whilst their countries don't.

Thaksin is Thailand's answer to Ferdinand Marcos in the digital age, replete with trans-Atlantic lobbyists.