Public opinion to be considered in reform: Thailand

[spidermike007]

I thought the people expressed their opinion when they elected the previous government.

And they'd still rightly be in power now running the country, if they hadn't completely abused their power and chose only the laws that suited them. Only got themselves to blame for all this mess, no-one else.

I think this is a sensible move, the Dems never listen or pay attention to the red shirt core base, well so the reds say, PTP did listen but it was just for their own way to get power; so this way we might, just might find a common ground and unite this country again which we all want.

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For ANYONE to listen to the public would be an enormous change of heart, on the part of the establishment. Let us not forget that Thaksin got to where he is politically, at least partially by listening to the public. And it can be safe to say the "democrats" have not won an election for over 20 years by refusing to listen to the public. I am not saying I support or like Thaksin. I do not. But, he did come up with some populist policies that endeared a lot of people to him and his party. Let us not forget that.

[cms22]

again we see the red and thaksin/ptp apologists trying to ignore anything that is good for the country and talk their absolute garbage. Letting the people have a say is what is needed, ending the corruption and graft/bribes, actually having a police force that does what it is supposed to would be a huge boon as well. Finally we have someone that is prepared to allow the people a say in their own country, not just do as they are told to by the factions, if implemented correctly this could be the best thing that has ever happened to this country, the general deserves a lot of credit for attempting to sort this country out and remove all the bad elements.

And you really really believe this coup is intended to benefit the majority of the people of Thailand?? LMFAO!!! Were you born yesterday??

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[heybruce]

Just a quick answer to many posts supporting military rule: I'm not red, I'm not married to a red supporter or anyone else, and corruption predates the Yingluck and Thaksin administrations. I happen to have more faith in democracy than military government. I base this faith on the history of military governments in Thailand and the rest of the world.

Regarding corruption, it's worth noting the part:

"He (Abhisit) noted that the NCPO's roadmap did not mention any steps to tackle the chronic corruption problem."

The best cure for corruption is transparency. All government contracts need to be awarded in a transparent manner, with all but the most trivial being awarded by competitive bidding.

In addition all government employees (elected, civil service, military and any others) with contract and spending responsibilities must publicly disclose all sources of income and assets. If any of these incomes or assets can reasonably be construed to represent a conflict of interest the employee must divest himself/herself of the income/assets or be removed from any position with contract or spending responsibility.

Also, the ridiculous libel laws that scare the press out of reporting anything that might upset the powerful needs to be revised. The press can't perform its duty as the public watchdog unless it can report verifiable facts without fear of legal problems.

Edited June 5, 2014 by heybruce

[bigbamboo]

hopefully... corruption, judiciary, defamation and lese majeste but I'm not holing my breath

but those 4 would unite the country - I know of very few people that don't want to see those four reformed

With the army already cracking down on the cheating and lying maybe they could go the whole hog and do the same with gambling, drinking and prostitution too.

Wouldn't be all that popular with those who make their money from these activities but it would make the country and it's people.......... what's that word again that we hear so much?..........begins with 'B'..........ah, yes......... Buddhist.

[Mudcrab]

again we see the red and thaksin/ptp apologists trying to ignore anything that is good for the country and talk their absolute garbage. Letting the people have a say is what is needed, ending the corruption and graft/bribes, actually having a police force that does what it is supposed to would be a huge boon as well. Finally we have someone that is prepared to allow the people a say in their own country, not just do as they are told to by the factions, if implemented correctly this could be the best thing that has ever happened to this country, the general deserves a lot of credit for attempting to sort this country out and remove all the bad elements.

And you really really believe this coup is intended to benefit the majority of the people of Thailand?? LMFAO!!! Were you born yesterday??

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Welcome back pipkins/richteacher/frisianboppe/robert. We missed you!!

[rubl]

hopefully... corruption, judiciary, defamation and lese majeste but I'm not holing my breath

but those 4 would unite the country - I know of very few people that don't want to see those four reformed

I was always told that Thai didn't have problems with corruption as long as it worked for them. Furthermore it would seem most (normal) Thai may not even know what defamation is. The LM laws don't seem to bother most Thais.

Consequently I'm almost forced to think you might know only a few Thai people. IMHO

Mind you, may be we should improve the National Education Curriculum to stimulate people to think for themselves. Now that would be a novel approach for Thailand.

[kimamey]

Go and get the reform plan from Suthep. For over 6 months of demanding reform, I am sure he has them all detailed out.

So you want one sided reforms as suggested by Suthep? I'd rather have reforms that are fair to both sides.

Or were you just finding a way to included Suthep in this?

[pisico]

What a novel idea, considering public opinion?

Wonder if that will catch on?

Yes it is a novel idea and it would be very nice if it did catch on, and not only here in Thailand. There are a few other countries which would possibly do better to think like this.

Do they have military coups? Maybe you are thinking of Africa and South America.

[djjamie]

again we see the red and thaksin/ptp apologists trying to ignore anything that is good for the country and talk their absolute garbage. Letting the people have a say is what is needed, ending the corruption and graft/bribes, actually having a police force that does what it is supposed to would be a huge boon as well. Finally we have someone that is prepared to allow the people a say in their own country, not just do as they are told to by the factions, if implemented correctly this could be the best thing that has ever happened to this country, the general deserves a lot of credit for attempting to sort this country out and remove all the bad elements.

And you really really believe this coup is intended to benefit the majority of the people of Thailand?? LMFAO!!! Were you born yesterday??

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I could just see you on a debating team CMS22. Everything the opposition says you can reply with an hysterical laugh followed by giving us a glimpse into your intimidating intellect by offering this gem. "Were you born yesterday"

WOW. You win that round mate!! Can't argue with that….

[pisico]

What a novel idea, considering public opinion?

Wonder if that will catch on?

Probably, once the correct reforms are in place along with reduced bribery and threats etc. at the ballot box, then it won't be novel, just normal as in most civilised countries.

Reform a feudal mentality?

Thais are quite happy in their Thainess that is based on lack of accountability and paying to get away with not following the law.

Vote buying, bribes and intimidation have gone on in Thailand for centuries. Way before Thaksin was born.

Remember that the Reformer in the mid 30s (Pibunsongkhram) after his coup, was run out of office by fellow military because corruption had attained unacceptable levels even by Thai standards.

Aong his deeds are: he ordered the name Thailand to substitute the ancient name Siam, Xenophobia in the 12 Mandates, built the Democracy Monument (how ironic) and allowed the Japanese army to occupy the country without opposing them, and much much more.

He tried to modernise Thai society too but failed.

Later on, after the war had ended, he came back to power using Thai-time-proven ways: back room dealings.

I wonder why Suthep chose Democracy Monument as his headquarters for his "cause". Affinity with the one who built it?

[pisico]

Groundhog Day for 80 years.

Same, same... no different

[BillyBobThai]

If the general does nothing else, I would love to see Thaksin brought back to Thailand and made to pay for all the trouble that he has caused to this country.

[ginjag]

Just a quick answer to many posts supporting military rule: I'm not red, I'm not married to a red supporter or anyone else, and corruption predates the Yingluck and Thaksin administrations. I happen to have more faith in democracy than military government. I base this faith on the history of military governments in Thailand and the rest of the world.

Regarding corruption, it's worth noting the part:

"He (Abhisit) noted that the NCPO's roadmap did not mention any steps to tackle the chronic corruption problem."

The best cure for corruption is transparency. All government contracts need to be awarded in a transparent manner, with all but the most trivial being awarded by competitive bidding.

In addition all government employees (elected, civil service, military and any others) with contract and spending responsibilities must publicly disclose all sources of income and assets. If any of these incomes or assets can reasonably be construed to represent a conflict of interest the employee must divest himself/herself of the income/assets or be removed from any position with contract or spending responsibility.

Also, the ridiculous libel laws that scare the press out of reporting anything that might upset the powerful needs to be revised. The press can't perform its duty as the public watchdog unless it can report verifiable facts without fear of legal problems

To my mind--MOST posters are supporting the army at this time, supporting military rule who knows who is.??

Quote-" corruption pre dates Yingluck-admin" So So your point is what ?? that makes their admin OK to be the same ??? no critic during the Yingluck admin.

The democracy YOU know of -then you have more faith in that than this army move---slightly different to a true Junta entrenched for years.

The media thing will be back to normal without propaganda programs---good thing.

Funny if my memory is sound most of your posts during the PTP regime were supportive of the red /Thaksin clan

Now you deny you are or have been a supporter.

[ginjag]

I still am amazed at all these TV members that bleat on about corruption with regards to the Shinawatra governments.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The coup had nothing to do with corruption.

Try thinking before repeating the story that you have been fed.

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New are we ??? a bit late to be joining the disappearing clan

The coup was to rid Thailand of a regime and prevent hostilities happening.

You find that a bad thing ?? OR elections would have cleared everything up

Prevent Hostilities happening? That's worked out so well down South hasn't it !! For someone who has lived in Thailand for so long, you are so intent on focusing on the trees, and not seeing the woods very well.

The levels of violence in the last month were actually down with fewer attacks on the protesters, but you're entitled to your belief as to why the Military chose to step in at that precise moment, rather than step in when there was a considerable amount of violence going on in previous months. Everyone knew there was never going to be a compromise between Suthep's PDRC, The Democrats and the PTP/UDD, the coup was inevitable, I even said a few months back, that a coup was on the cards, as it was the only solution to break the impasse, many others here on TVF said the same thing.

Is the Coup doing great things? Yes of course they are, they're cleaning up a huge mess made by both the ousted Government, and the Protesters, I've not seen much in the main headline stories today, but they're clamping down on the Taxi Mafias in Phuket as well, this General isn't <deleted> about, but his time is short, he's due to retire in September, an never ever forget, when something appears to be too good to be true, they never are and they end up being the opposite

It's early days, the General and the Junta have done some remarkable things, all the things that on the outside appear to be, to maintain public support, which is needed, I applaud the steps taken so far, but there's a part of me that also says that be wary of strangers bearing gifts. The jury is still out, but the Junta needs time, and they should be given that, I also believe that I also said several months ago that the Junta should remain in power for 12-14 months to allow the warring factions to sort their acts out, so far I can sit back and smile and say that I have been right on the button with this one.

We all know about the trouble in the south, so this is off track re my post---BKK hostilities was my point. Please do not try to confuse.

Your second paragraph is crazy--- Thaksins police force should be there to control clashes with red and protesters. The army came in for the simple fact that the police were not capable of containing clashes that looked on the horizon, they jumped in then. plus they also saw so many other serious outlets that had to be plugged.

Third paragraph you seem to be out on a limb with all the news, get a Thai friend to interpret what the TV is reporting.

Many posters are bending with the wind now, but normally little tell tale bits in their posts are confirming who they DID support in general.

A lot of your post is good and to my mind correct BUT the same niggling little things crop up within the post.

[heybruce]

Just a quick answer to many posts supporting military rule: I'm not red, I'm not married to a red supporter or anyone else, and corruption predates the Yingluck and Thaksin administrations. I happen to have more faith in democracy than military government. I base this faith on the history of military governments in Thailand and the rest of the world.

Regarding corruption, it's worth noting the part:

"He (Abhisit) noted that the NCPO's roadmap did not mention any steps to tackle the chronic corruption problem."

The best cure for corruption is transparency. All government contracts need to be awarded in a transparent manner, with all but the most trivial being awarded by competitive bidding.

In addition all government employees (elected, civil service, military and any others) with contract and spending responsibilities must publicly disclose all sources of income and assets. If any of these incomes or assets can reasonably be construed to represent a conflict of interest the employee must divest himself/herself of the income/assets or be removed from any position with contract or spending responsibility.

Also, the ridiculous libel laws that scare the press out of reporting anything that might upset the powerful needs to be revised. The press can't perform its duty as the public watchdog unless it can report verifiable facts without fear of legal problems

To my mind--MOST posters are supporting the army at this time, supporting military rule who knows who is.??

Quote-" corruption pre dates Yingluck-admin" So So your point is what ?? that makes their admin OK to be the same ??? no critic during the Yingluck admin.

The democracy YOU know of -then you have more faith in that than this army move---slightly different to a true Junta entrenched for years.

The media thing will be back to normal without propaganda programs---good thing.

Funny if my memory is sound most of your posts during the PTP regime were supportive of the red /Thaksin clan

Now you deny you are or have been a supporter.

Nothing about the bulk of my post, which addressed the reform proposals.

Some of your statements are grammatically challenging and Orwellian in your choice of words, I'll skip over them and address:

"Funny if my memory is sound most of your posts during the PTP regime were supportive of the red /Thaksin clan"

I don't think your memory serves you correctly. Perhaps you should dig up some examples. Don't misconstrue support for democracy and elections, and challenges to ludicrous statements, as support for any party or person.

[binjalin]

hopefully... corruption, judiciary, defamation and lese majeste but I'm not holing my breath

but those 4 would unite the country - I know of very few people that don't want to see those four reformed

I was always told that Thai didn't have problems with corruption as long as it worked for them. Furthermore it would seem most (normal) Thai may not even know what defamation is. The LM laws don't seem to bother most Thais.

Consequently I'm almost forced to think you might know only a few Thai people. IMHO

Mind you, may be we should improve the National Education Curriculum to stimulate people to think for themselves. Now that would be a novel approach for Thailand.

I don't think you are really suggesting corruption is ok? even a friend who went for a job as an air stewardess was asked what the number one problem is in Thailand? yes you guessed it corruption was the correct answer!

many people view lese majeste as a tool of the State and defamation where you cannot call a 'thief a thief' is scorned here - you left out judiciary?

maybe the Thais I mix with have a slightly better education than your 'selection" dear Rubl?

your last comment is true... but if they do that they will question the 4 things I raised

[Fat Haggis]

There is no democratic process in the Military, you follow orders, it's that simple, even General Prayuth knows this, he is like many Old timers, as in served all his life in the Army, they DON'T know how things are done outside, all too many times I have met former Senior Officers, who still think and act like they're in "Command" they don't have an answer for anyone who suddenly asks "Why do we have to do that" " as they're used to ordering people to do whatever it is, and they're used to these people doing that, the General needs to get civilian advisors in pretty quick to start handling civil affairs, Its not because he's not the right man, it's because he's used to people following orders, it's that simple, but the real world doesn't jump through hoops like that.

The population in General are not used to being told what they can and cannot do, and there are those who will resent this, that is a simple fact of life, there's also people who simply don't like, and cannot accept change, not realising the long term goals.

Military men, especially Staff Officers have low tolerance points, as has been proven with General Prayuth, he snapped at the bickering between the rival parties, and came down on all of them like a tonne of bricks, and he did the same at a couple of press conferences, he's now in the spotlight, he IS doing great things, but he needs to be more appealing to the public, he needs to start having a laugh and a joke, he needs to stop treating the population and all the "visitors" like they're all part of his Army, of course it would be so much easier if they were, but he's looking at everything from a Generals point of view, not a Statesman's point of view.

Hearts and minds and he's doing not too bad a job so far.

Instead of clamping down on the anti coup protesters, I'd let them carry on, as they'll soon get fed up and go home, pretty much the same as what happened with the masses of the PDRC, the more good the General does, and doesn't act like a Tyrant and a bully, the less reasons there will be to protest against the Military, and he will gain more and more popular support, if he does this right, there's absolute no reason why he wouldn't be an ideal PM come the time for elections.

Keep it up General.

[ginjag]

Just a quick answer to many posts supporting military rule: I'm not red, I'm not married to a red supporter or anyone else, and corruption predates the Yingluck and Thaksin administrations. I happen to have more faith in democracy than military government. I base this faith on the history of military governments in Thailand and the rest of the world.

Regarding corruption, it's worth noting the part:

"He (Abhisit) noted that the NCPO's roadmap did not mention any steps to tackle the chronic corruption problem."

The best cure for corruption is transparency. All government contracts need to be awarded in a transparent manner, with all but the most trivial being awarded by competitive bidding.

In addition all government employees (elected, civil service, military and any others) with contract and spending responsibilities must publicly disclose all sources of income and assets. If any of these incomes or assets can reasonably be construed to represent a conflict of interest the employee must divest himself/herself of the income/assets or be removed from any position with contract or spending responsibility.

Also, the ridiculous libel laws that scare the press out of reporting anything that might upset the powerful needs to be revised. The press can't perform its duty as the public watchdog unless it can report verifiable facts without fear of legal problems

To my mind--MOST posters are supporting the army at this time, supporting military rule who knows who is.??

Quote-" corruption pre dates Yingluck-admin" So So your point is what ?? that makes their admin OK to be the same ??? no critic during the Yingluck admin.

The democracy YOU know of -then you have more faith in that than this army move---slightly different to a true Junta entrenched for years.

The media thing will be back to normal without propaganda programs---good thing.

Funny if my memory is sound most of your posts during the PTP regime were supportive of the red /Thaksin clan

Now you deny you are or have been a supporter.

Nothing about the bulk of my post, which addressed the reform proposals.

Some of your statements are grammatically challenging and Orwellian in your choice of words, I'll skip over them and address:

"Funny if my memory is sound most of your posts during the PTP regime were supportive of the red /Thaksin clan"

I don't think your memory serves you correctly. Perhaps you should dig up some examples. Don't misconstrue support for democracy and elections, and challenges to ludicrous statements, as support for any party or person.

I remember too well --I do support democracy BUT was critical of an elected government that got in and run down a country in a fashion that was not democratic. Basic cricism, I do not recall many times you criticized PTP or Yingluck. this is my point.

You and your clan believed that in the middle of mayhem and courts rightly trying to deal with corrupt politicians you wanted elections then as you deemed it right and democratic to do so. your belief --fine.

I fully support elections when the total mess created by PTP has been cleaned up (as is now like it or lump it) reforms taken time to prepare not hurried silly ones that anyone can do---- what reforms were PTPs ??? they promised---Getting Thaksin back free from crimes committed----it did not work.

[rubl]

hopefully... corruption, judiciary, defamation and lese majeste but I'm not holing my breath

but those 4 would unite the country - I know of very few people that don't want to see those four reformed

I was always told that Thai didn't have problems with corruption as long as it worked for them. Furthermore it would seem most (normal) Thai may not even know what defamation is. The LM laws don't seem to bother most Thais.

Consequently I'm almost forced to think you might know only a few Thai people. IMHO

Mind you, may be we should improve the National Education Curriculum to stimulate people to think for themselves. Now that would be a novel approach for Thailand.

I don't think you are really suggesting corruption is ok? even a friend who went for a job as an air stewardess was asked what the number one problem is in Thailand? yes you guessed it corruption was the correct answer!

many people view lese majeste as a tool of the State and defamation where you cannot call a 'thief a thief' is scorned here - you left out judiciary?

maybe the Thais I mix with have a slightly better education than your 'selection" dear Rubl?

your last comment is true... but if they do that they will question the 4 things I raised

My dear binji, this is not the first post where you indicate that because you might know so many Thai, that with certain authority you can state how Thai think or not think.

'even a friend', 'many people', 'maybe slightly better educated friends', all suggestions without much value without a bit of prove.

As for my last comment, it's my personal opinion and may be shared by many Thais, maybe not. Still I personally think that the only road to a proper functioning democracy is through proper education. Learn people to think for themselves and with that how to work together for a common good, their society, their family and thereby implicitly for themselves. Too many seem to like to work explicitly for themselves only. IMHO.

Edited June 5, 2014 by rubl

[Fat Haggis]

I still am amazed at all these TV members that bleat on about corruption with regards to the Shinawatra governments.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The coup had nothing to do with corruption.

Try thinking before repeating the story that you have been fed.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

New are we ??? a bit late to be joining the disappearing clan

The coup was to rid Thailand of a regime and prevent hostilities happening.

You find that a bad thing ?? OR elections would have cleared everything up

Prevent Hostilities happening? That's worked out so well down South hasn't it !! For someone who has lived in Thailand for so long, you are so intent on focusing on the trees, and not seeing the woods very well.

The levels of violence in the last month were actually down with fewer attacks on the protesters, but you're entitled to your belief as to why the Military chose to step in at that precise moment, rather than step in when there was a considerable amount of violence going on in previous months. Everyone knew there was never going to be a compromise between Suthep's PDRC, The Democrats and the PTP/UDD, the coup was inevitable, I even said a few months back, that a coup was on the cards, as it was the only solution to break the impasse, many others here on TVF said the same thing.

Is the Coup doing great things? Yes of course they are, they're cleaning up a huge mess made by both the ousted Government, and the Protesters, I've not seen much in the main headline stories today, but they're clamping down on the Taxi Mafias in Phuket as well, this General isn't <deleted> about, but his time is short, he's due to retire in September, an never ever forget, when something appears to be too good to be true, they never are and they end up being the opposite

It's early days, the General and the Junta have done some remarkable things, all the things that on the outside appear to be, to maintain public support, which is needed, I applaud the steps taken so far, but there's a part of me that also says that be wary of strangers bearing gifts. The jury is still out, but the Junta needs time, and they should be given that, I also believe that I also said several months ago that the Junta should remain in power for 12-14 months to allow the warring factions to sort their acts out, so far I can sit back and smile and say that I have been right on the button with this one.

We all know about the trouble in the south, so this is off track re my post---BKK hostilities was my point. Please do not try to confuse.

Your second paragraph is crazy--- Thaksins police force should be there to control clashes with red and protesters. The army came in for the simple fact that the police were not capable of containing clashes that looked on the horizon, they jumped in then. plus they also saw so many other serious outlets that had to be plugged.

Third paragraph you seem to be out on a limb with all the news, get a Thai friend to interpret what the TV is reporting.

Many posters are bending with the wind now, but normally little tell tale bits in their posts are confirming who they DID support in general.

A lot of your post is good and to my mind correct BUT the same niggling little things crop up within the post.

With all due respect, but never mentioned Bangkok you clearly stated to prevent hostilities from happening, you never said where I maybe pedantic, but there was every chance the potential for violence "could" have spread to many other areas outside of Bangkok.

As to my second paragraph, but correct me if I'm wrong, but were the Army not dispatched to the streets of Bangkok very early on, almost immediately after the Hand grenade attack at Victory monument, the Army have been on the ground whilst these attacks continued, or do you forget that? I don't disagree that the Police were inept and not up to the job, but the Army could easily have "stepped" in well before it did. The Army have been present during these acts of violence, do you deny this? They even had checkpoints all over the city, and the attacks continued, so please spare us they stepped in to curb the violence, they were present 90% of the time it was happening!!.

Why is the 3rd paragraph out on a limb? Is there a topic heading about the clampdown of the Taxi Mafia down in Phuket, like there was about the logging, or the clamp down on the beauty clinics? If there is, I've missed that one, I don't just rely of TVF for the news, I go all over, read people's FB comments, I don't need a Thai to interpret what's posted in English but thanks for the pointer

I couldn't care less about who supported who, to me it was meaningless and pointless, as it meant nothing to me, I have no control or influence on the outcomes, I post things as I see them, it's opinions, you think that because I am more critical to the Suthep side, that makes me a PTP/UDD supporter, no it doesn't, and the same for you, as in you state that you're not a supporter of the "Yellows" but like you, based on what you read, you form an opinion that "he must be an X" supporter, it doesn't quite work that way, I have no dog in the fight, I have repeated this many times now, I couldn't give a flying frak about the PTP/UDD, or the PDRC, neither are worth supporting, I've even gone off Abhisit these days, if anything I'd say the General himself is getting more and more of my respect, simply because everyone is terrified of him, he's a strong character, and not afraid to upset a few people in getting things done..

That all being said, thank you for comments in the last sentence

[ginjag]

There is no democratic process in the Military, you follow orders, it's that simple, even General Prayuth knows this, he is like many Old timers, as in served all his life in the Army, they DON'T know how things are done outside, all too many times I have met former Senior Officers, who still think and act like they're in "Command" they don't have an answer for anyone who suddenly asks "Why do we have to do that" " as they're used to ordering people to do whatever it is, and they're used to these people doing that, the General needs to get civilian advisors in pretty quick to start handling civil affairs, Its not because he's not the right man, it's because he's used to people following orders, it's that simple, but the real world doesn't jump through hoops like that.

The population in General are not used to being told what they can and cannot do, and there are those who will resent this, that is a simple fact of life, there's also people who simply don't like, and cannot accept change, not realising the long term goals.

Military men, especially Staff Officers have low tolerance points, as has been proven with General Prayuth, he snapped at the bickering between the rival parties, and came down on all of them like a tonne of bricks, and he did the same at a couple of press conferences, he's now in the spotlight, he IS doing great things, but he needs to be more appealing to the public, he needs to start having a laugh and a joke, he needs to stop treating the population and all the "visitors" like they're all part of his Army, of course it would be so much easier if they were, but he's looking at everything from a Generals point of view, not a Statesman's point of view.

Hearts and minds and he's doing not too bad a job so far.

Instead of clamping down on the anti coup protesters, I'd let them carry on, as they'll soon get fed up and go home, pretty much the same as what happened with the masses of the PDRC, the more good the General does, and doesn't act like a Tyrant and a bully, the less reasons there will be to protest against the Military, and he will gain more and more popular support, if he does this right, there's absolute no reason why he wouldn't be an ideal PM come the time for elections.

Keep it up General.

Oh Fat Haggis--"democracy"

You believe the General don't know how things are done outside, if he didn't he would not have took by the scruff of the neck the PTP etc, and give them the boot.

It is because he knew what was happening and did what he had to do for the country.

The general has far more knowledge than you give him credit for, his long history proves that. you think he has been in the army he has had blinkers on ???

This is not the real world--democratic--or junta ruled. INTERIM is more of a word, and it needs time -the alleged crimes are a serious matter.

Your post seems scathing towards the General then in the next sentence your sweet mouthing him.

Most people knew the score with the protesters, that is why nothing was done. Grubs were in the woodwork and were highlighted.

Clamping down on the protesters was a no no. the reasons clearly being Yingluck would have had her hurried democratic elections and then PTP would have had loads of time to cover up the wrongs that have been revealed.

[Fat Haggis]

The irony is that I also said before that the General was a "Politician" whether he liked it or not, and I was shot down for that comment, I still stand by it, because I said as well that the time that most senior/staff officers are heavily influenced in politics and political matters.

As for being scathing towards him, try reading again, I said he needs to stop throwing temper tantrums and losing his decorum, and appoint a civilian spokesperson, rather than acting in a bullish manner, " hearts and minds" , if the public see you lose patience over difficult questions, it questions your ability to handle the overall situation, that's hardly scathing, it's mere observation

The very fact you're saying that the General was very aware of what goes on in the outside world, especially in politics makes my original opinion of him correct, in that he's a more than capable politician

This is not the real world--democratic--or junta ruled. INTERIM is more of a word, and it needs time -the alleged crimes are a serious matter

You've lost me completely with that comment, you mean that Thailand isn't the real world and is infact more akin to La-La land?

My comments are easy enough to comprehend, in that the real world, as in the one outside the Military doesn't jump through the hoops as soon as someone barks orders!! As in there's people who will ask "why do we need to do it this way, or that way"

Its not because he's not the right man, it's because he's used to people following orders, it's that simple, but the real world doesn't jump through hoops like that.

It's interesting you mention his long history, I'm well aware of the "clique" he belongs to, and what this "clique" has done in the past, and that nepotism within the Military is rife especially if you belong to the club he's in.

You've miss read my last paragraph, or maybe you chose to ignore it as it clearly says anti coup protesters as for the anti government protesters, well they were "protected" by the courts and the military even Stevie Wonder could see that.

[ginjag]

The irony is that I also said before that the General was a "Politician" whether he liked it or not, and I was shot down for that comment, I still stand by it, because I said as well that the time that most senior/staff officers are heavily influenced in politics and political matters.

As for being scathing towards him, try reading again, I said he needs to stop throwing temper tantrums and losing his decorum, and appoint a civilian spokesperson, rather than acting in a bullish manner, " hearts and minds" , if the public see you lose patience over difficult questions, it questions your ability to handle the overall situation, that's hardly scathing, it's mere observation

The very fact you're saying that the General was very aware of what goes on in the outside world, especially in politics makes my original opinion of him correct, in that he's a more than capable politician

This is not the real world--democratic--or junta ruled. INTERIM is more of a word, and it needs time -the alleged crimes are a serious matter

You've lost me completely with that comment, you mean that Thailand isn't the real world and is infact more akin to La-La land?

My comments are easy enough to comprehend, in that the real world, as in the one outside the Military doesn't jump through the hoops as soon as someone barks orders!! As in there's people who will ask "why do we need to do it this way, or that way"

Its not because he's not the right man, it's because he's used to people following orders, it's that simple, but the real world doesn't jump through hoops like that.

It's interesting you mention his long history, I'm well aware of the "clique" he belongs to, and what this "clique" has done in the past, and that nepotism within the Military is rife especially if you belong to the club he's in.

You've miss read my last paragraph, or maybe you chose to ignore it as it clearly says anti coup protesters as for the anti government protesters, well they were "protected" by the courts and the military even Stevie Wonder could see that.

Scathing -I chose as one has to be a bit more careful in these early days.

They all belong to a clique but each poster chooses the clique he prefers, my judgement is far from super BUT as things stand from day 1 of PTP my criticism has been consistent of the mega probs, and did support the protests more than Suthep, but he led this highlighting of diabolical governing.

The coup protesters are a fragment of reds and high college people, a percentage have been apprehended by the military who are aware mainly of their background.

Thailand seem unique " not the real world" apart from the belief it was a democracy under PTP it never was although it gained power in democratic election.

Further to this the COUP/JUNTA is not what it actually is---I said before no one could care take, it had to get full control to do the job it has set out to do.

Because of this it is bad to have military in control as some posters think, BUT god it's far better than the ex government, and moralistically far superior.

I will post and back them until things change for the worse. But I think that is not possible.

[heybruce]

Just a quick answer to many posts supporting military rule: I'm not red, I'm not married to a red supporter or anyone else, and corruption predates the Yingluck and Thaksin administrations. I happen to have more faith in democracy than military government. I base this faith on the history of military governments in Thailand and the rest of the world.

Regarding corruption, it's worth noting the part:

"He (Abhisit) noted that the NCPO's roadmap did not mention any steps to tackle the chronic corruption problem."

The best cure for corruption is transparency. All government contracts need to be awarded in a transparent manner, with all but the most trivial being awarded by competitive bidding.

In addition all government employees (elected, civil service, military and any others) with contract and spending responsibilities must publicly disclose all sources of income and assets. If any of these incomes or assets can reasonably be construed to represent a conflict of interest the employee must divest himself/herself of the income/assets or be removed from any position with contract or spending responsibility.

Also, the ridiculous libel laws that scare the press out of reporting anything that might upset the powerful needs to be revised. The press can't perform its duty as the public watchdog unless it can report verifiable facts without fear of legal problems

To my mind--MOST posters are supporting the army at this time, supporting military rule who knows who is.??

Quote-" corruption pre dates Yingluck-admin" So So your point is what ?? that makes their admin OK to be the same ??? no critic during the Yingluck admin.

The democracy YOU know of -then you have more faith in that than this army move---slightly different to a true Junta entrenched for years.

The media thing will be back to normal without propaganda programs---good thing.

Funny if my memory is sound most of your posts during the PTP regime were supportive of the red /Thaksin clan

Now you deny you are or have been a supporter.

Nothing about the bulk of my post, which addressed the reform proposals.

Some of your statements are grammatically challenging and Orwellian in your choice of words, I'll skip over them and address:

"Funny if my memory is sound most of your posts during the PTP regime were supportive of the red /Thaksin clan"

I don't think your memory serves you correctly. Perhaps you should dig up some examples. Don't misconstrue support for democracy and elections, and challenges to ludicrous statements, as support for any party or person.

I remember too well --I do support democracy BUT was critical of an elected government that got in and run down a country in a fashion that was not democratic. Basic cricism, I do not recall many times you criticized PTP or Yingluck. this is my point.

You and your clan believed that in the middle of mayhem and courts rightly trying to deal with corrupt politicians you wanted elections then as you deemed it right and democratic to do so. your belief --fine.

I fully support elections when the total mess created by PTP has been cleaned up (as is now like it or lump it) reforms taken time to prepare not hurried silly ones that anyone can do---- what reforms were PTPs ??? they promised---Getting Thaksin back free from crimes committed----it did not work.

"I do not recall many times you criticized PTP or Yingluck. this is my point."

Apparently you did not pick up on my posts in which I stated that the PTP and Yingluck were incompetent and the canceled election was a missed opportunity for the voters to show their unhappiness and weaken both the PTP and the Shinawatras. Funny, I don't recall how many times I wrote words to this effect, but it happened more than once.

Democracy doesn't supply the gratifying illusion of a quick fix that a military coup provides, but many past coups have not fixed Thailand's problems, and I am much less optimistic than you on how effective this one will be.

However you did close by mentioning reforms, which is this particular topic. I have some experience with government acquisition. I know that when there are large sums of money and complicated procurement chains it is essential that there be transparency and strict rules against conflict of interest, things that appear to be absent in Thailand. As I stated initially, I think the reforms should include:

1. All government contracts need to be awarded in a transparent manner, with all but the most trivial being awarded by competitive bidding.

2. All government employees (elected, civil service, military and any others) with contract and spending responsibilities must publicly disclose all sources of income and assets. If any of these incomes or assets can reasonably be construed to represent a conflict of interest the employee must divest himself/herself of the income/assets or be removed from any position with contract or spending responsibility.

3. The ridiculous libel laws that scare the press out of reporting anything that might upset the powerful needs to be revised. The press can't perform its duty as the public watchdog unless it can report verifiable facts without fear of legal problems

Obviously these are not all the reforms that are necessary, but any corruption reforms that do not include the above will not make an appreciable dent in corruption. I have my doubts as to whether the military will implement the above. I have trouble imagining civil servants, police chiefs, and military commanders declaring all assets and sources of income, and being subjected to severe penalties if they omit anything. What do you think?

[mikebell]

Can farangs be consulted? If so what reccommendations for improvement would you make at both local & national level?

[binjalin]

hopefully... corruption, judiciary, defamation and lese majeste but I'm not holing my breath

but those 4 would unite the country - I know of very few people that don't want to see those four reformed

I was always told that Thai didn't have problems with corruption as long as it worked for them. Furthermore it would seem most (normal) Thai may not even know what defamation is. The LM laws don't seem to bother most Thais.

Consequently I'm almost forced to think you might know only a few Thai people. IMHO

Mind you, may be we should improve the National Education Curriculum to stimulate people to think for themselves. Now that would be a novel approach for Thailand.

I don't think you are really suggesting corruption is ok? even a friend who went for a job as an air stewardess was asked what the number one problem is in Thailand? yes you guessed it corruption was the correct answer!

many people view lese majeste as a tool of the State and defamation where you cannot call a 'thief a thief' is scorned here - you left out judiciary?

maybe the Thais I mix with have a slightly better education than your 'selection" dear Rubl?

your last comment is true... but if they do that they will question the 4 things I raised

My dear binji, this is not the first post where you indicate that because you might know so many Thai, that with certain authority you can state how Thai think or not think.

'even a friend', 'many people', 'maybe slightly better educated friends', all suggestions without much value without a bit of prove.

As for my last comment, it's my personal opinion and may be shared by many Thais, maybe not. Still I personally think that the only road to a proper functioning democracy is through proper education. Learn people to think for themselves and with that how to work together for a common good, their society, their family and thereby implicitly for themselves. Too many seem to like to work explicitly for themselves only. IMHO.

Uncle Rub you are twisting my words... only a vote can determine what Thai people think - in your post you say "most Thais" so I think you are far more guilty of extrapolating this to mean "Thais" than I am

I agree about education - but education will mean questioning and those 'in authority' will not like Thais "questioning" and the 4 things I mentioned will be 'questioned" by an educated Thai population. You are right they are not "questioned" too much now as they are uneducated so i am delighted you agree with me

[Morch]

I still am amazed at all these TV members that bleat on about corruption with regards to the Shinawatra governments.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The coup had nothing to do with corruption.

Try thinking before repeating the story that you have been fed.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

New are we ??? a bit late to be joining the disappearing clan

The coup was to rid Thailand of a regime and prevent hostilities happening.

You find that a bad thing ?? OR elections would have cleared everything up

Prevent Hostilities happening? That's worked out so well down South hasn't it !! For someone who has lived in Thailand for so long, you are so intent on focusing on the trees, and not seeing the woods very well.

The levels of violence in the last month were actually down with fewer attacks on the protesters, but you're entitled to your belief as to why the Military chose to step in at that precise moment, rather than step in when there was a considerable amount of violence going on in previous months. Everyone knew there was never going to be a compromise between Suthep's PDRC, The Democrats and the PTP/UDD, the coup was inevitable, I even said a few months back, that a coup was on the cards, as it was the only solution to break the impasse, many others here on TVF said the same thing.

Is the Coup doing great things? Yes of course they are, they're cleaning up a huge mess made by both the ousted Government, and the Protesters, I've not seen much in the main headline stories today, but they're clamping down on the Taxi Mafias in Phuket as well, this General isn't <deleted> about, but his time is short, he's due to retire in September, an never ever forget, when something appears to be too good to be true, they never are and they end up being the opposite

It's early days, the General and the Junta have done some remarkable things, all the things that on the outside appear to be, to maintain public support, which is needed, I applaud the steps taken so far, but there's a part of me that also says that be wary of strangers bearing gifts. The jury is still out, but the Junta needs time, and they should be given that, I also believe that I also said several months ago that the Junta should remain in power for 12-14 months to allow the warring factions to sort their acts out, so far I can sit back and smile and say that I have been right on the button with this one.

The general is due to retire in September, true.

Given the circumstances this might be delayed, or as rumored in some news reports, he might head the new interim government. Last report was it will be set up withing 3 months...

On another post you raised the issue of generals having a more authoritarian style, handing down commands etc. and how

this might not be well received. Could be true, but for one thing, the general seems like quite an accomplished politicians

(something learned on higher levels of command in most armies, probably), and the other - not sure that all Thais have

much issues with it. Being a culture based on bowing down to authority, and the concept of accepting instructions from

those above you is rather well ingrained. Not by everyone, for sure, but perhaps not that much of a problem for the coup

leadership, at least for now.

[rubl]

I don't think you are really suggesting corruption is ok? even a friend who went for a job as an air stewardess was asked what the number one problem is in Thailand? yes you guessed it corruption was the correct answer!

many people view lese majeste as a tool of the State and defamation where you cannot call a 'thief a thief' is scorned here - you left out judiciary?

maybe the Thais I mix with have a slightly better education than your 'selection" dear Rubl?

your last comment is true... but if they do that they will question the 4 things I raised

My dear binji, this is not the first post where you indicate that because you might know so many Thai, that with certain authority you can state how Thai think or not think.

'even a friend', 'many people', 'maybe slightly better educated friends', all suggestions without much value without a bit of prove.

As for my last comment, it's my personal opinion and may be shared by many Thais, maybe not. Still I personally think that the only road to a proper functioning democracy is through proper education. Learn people to think for themselves and with that how to work together for a common good, their society, their family and thereby implicitly for themselves. Too many seem to like to work explicitly for themselves only. IMHO.

Uncle Rub you are twisting my words... only a vote can determine what Thai people think - in your post you say "most Thais" so I think you are far more guilty of extrapolating this to mean "Thais" than I am

I agree about education - but education will mean questioning and those 'in authority' will not like Thais "questioning" and the 4 things I mentioned will be 'questioned" by an educated Thai population. You are right they are not "questioned" too much now as they are uneducated so i am delighted you agree with me

I twist nothing and I certainly don't think 'only a vote' can determine what Thai think. That is not in the current climate with people voting as they are told to do, or pressured to do, or feel the social fabric urging them to do.

Furthermore, you say you agree about education, then follows some of your thoughts ending with being delighted I agree with you. That type of logic seems a twisting of words and thoughts.

Anyway lots of education still to be done, it would seem and at times I wonder if I should write "present company excluded"

[JAG]

What a novel idea, considering public opinion?

Wonder if that will catch on?

I suspect only if "the right opinion" is expressed!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubl]

Just a quick answer to many posts supporting military rule: I'm not red, I'm not married to a red supporter or anyone else, and corruption predates the Yingluck and Thaksin administrations. I happen to have more faith in democracy than military government. I base this faith on the history of military governments in Thailand and the rest of the world.

Regarding corruption, it's worth noting the part:

"He (Abhisit) noted that the NCPO's roadmap did not mention any steps to tackle the chronic corruption problem."

The best cure for corruption is transparency. All government contracts need to be awarded in a transparent manner, with all but the most trivial being awarded by competitive bidding.

In addition all government employees (elected, civil service, military and any others) with contract and spending responsibilities must publicly disclose all sources of income and assets. If any of these incomes or assets can reasonably be construed to represent a conflict of interest the employee must divest himself/herself of the income/assets or be removed from any position with contract or spending responsibility.

Also, the ridiculous libel laws that scare the press out of reporting anything that might upset the powerful needs to be revised. The press can't perform its duty as the public watchdog unless it can report verifiable facts without fear of legal problems.

You are right, my dear Brucy. Independent watchdogs, transparency, work on corruption, show responsibility.

The Yingluck administration had all that in their program, to obstruct it, it would seem.

The NCPO will listen to the Thai people, but it's unclear if Thai people really have those nobel ideas on 'democracy' some here suggest. It would seem that working on education is just as important, even more important than just asking for elections.