Five dual-track railway lines proposed for quick construction: Thailand

[robblok]

The country doesn't have the money for this! I am somewhat taken aback that they would bother with "environmental impact assessment" in the first place given the right of way already exists and wondering if there is any benefit from dual track running outside of Bangkok. The cost of trackage/signalling/grade separation is substancial. Signalling to Western standards that is.

Single track with crossing loops works well if the system is bough up to date.

CropperCapture10.jpg

It is millions... not billions like the rice program. So this is quite affordable and dual track would help a lot. Not a high speed train but normal dual track. It would help and might even get less trucks on the roads.

It's estimated at 324,700 million =324.7 billion

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Mea culpa... i thought millions.

That is a lot of money, wonder if that goes in a 1 year budget of multiple years (as construction goes on) (does make a difference). Can you imagine with all the rice money could have been used for. But yes I agree lot of money but if it stays in the budget then its ok. If they are going off budget without checks and balances that is a different story.

[ginjag]

Dual tracks BUT how wide will the tracks be, surely they will be the eq., of European/UK width.

I did not see any mention of it. Also just because you have some old crap loco's, doe's not mean you have to use them as they are for narrow gauge.

New tracks new rolling stock, and they do not need bullet trains---UK 125 style brill low cost.

[belg]

why does the army not help with the construction?

it is not they are using their weapons or other skills ?

[chainarong]

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The country doesn't have the money for this! I am somewhat taken aback that they would bother with "environmental impact assessment" in the first place given the right of way already exists and wondering if there is any benefit from dual track running outside of Bangkok. The cost of trackage/signalling/grade separation is substancial. Signalling to Western standards that is.

Single track with crossing loops works well if the system is bough up to date.

CropperCapture10.jpg

It is millions... not billions like the rice program. So this is quite affordable and dual track would help a lot. Not a high speed train but normal dual track. It would help and might even get less trucks on the roads.

If you are talking in BHT is will be billions and a lot more than your rice scheme cost.

[chainarong]

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Dual tracks BUT how wide will the tracks be, surely they will be the eq., of European/UK width.

I did not see any mention of it. Also just because you have some old crap loco's, doe's not mean you have to use them as they are for narrow gauge.

New tracks new rolling stock, and they do not need bullet trains---UK 125 style brill low cost.

The track will be standard gage. That's standard for the western world.

[TommyUK1960]

They have to change to standard gauge track so it makes it worth while as high speeds can't be archived on this narrow gauge stuff.

The cost is going to be horrendous as the Permanent way and signalling system for high speed running.

Then the cost of the new rolling stock.

Can't see this project taking place anytime soon. Cheaper to fly helicopters back and forth.

[chainarong]

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Talk of duel line freight systems is a start and much more logical than hi speed passenger systems. just a little more on loading and unloading berths also goes hand in hand.

My last post on this , you could also introduce the rule of , where a highway follows or is beside a railway, trucks of 12t and over must use rail , this cuts the amount of trucks on the road also the trucking companies save with higher speeds ,higher turn around times and less wear and tear on the trucks, if trucks are only travelling half way journey , they can be put off at intermediate stations , placed on the back road and off loaded.

[ratcatcher]

They have to change to standard gauge track so it makes it worth while as high speeds can't be archived on this narrow gauge stuff.

The cost is going to be horrendous as the Permanent way and signalling system for high speed running.

Then the cost of the new rolling stock.

Can't see this project taking place anytime soon. Cheaper to fly helicopters back and forth.

There has been no mention of a gauge change in the reports. That means the 1 meter gauge will stay and standard (4'81/2") gauge will possibly be used later.

Thailand needs a modernization of its railways to bring them up to the standard of railways in the U.K. 100 years ago. They had fast, efficient trains before WW1.

If a standard gauge railway system is to be built, it will have to be from the ground up, with, as another poster mentioned, new power and rolling stock.

Fast trains, yes. High speed trains, Not Yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Thailand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Railway_of_Thailand

For the curious.

[xminator]

Thailand and an "environmental impact assessment" ?

Someones nephew most likely have a company that do this. And this one the right someones nephew.

[robblok]

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The country doesn't have the money for this! I am somewhat taken aback that they would bother with "environmental impact assessment" in the first place given the right of way already exists and wondering if there is any benefit from dual track running outside of Bangkok. The cost of trackage/signalling/grade separation is substancial. Signalling to Western standards that is.

Single track with crossing loops works well if the system is bough up to date.

CropperCapture10.jpg

It is millions... not billions like the rice program. So this is quite affordable and dual track would help a lot. Not a high speed train but normal dual track. It would help and might even get less trucks on the roads.

If you are talking in BHT is will be billions and a lot more than your rice scheme cost.

347 billion is still no where near the price of the rice scheme.. and i think most people (farmers excluded) that it would have been better spend on this then on rice.

[kannot]

is there any other type of construction here?? quick/cheap same old same old. next week all falling apart!

[lomatopo]

347 billion is still no where near the price of the rice scheme..

You do realize that this is a budget, in toady's baht.

The finals costs will be double or triple.

And how will this benefit the masses? How many rice farmers do you think travel by train?

Today ~ 2% of freight - mostly mail - goes by rail, ~ 85% by truck (the remainder by water).

Rail will never be reliable or timely enough for anything but self-loading freight, and the Thai Post.

Edited June 6, 2014 by lomatopo

[scorecard]

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They have to change to standard gauge track so it makes it worth while as high speeds can't be archived on this narrow gauge stuff.

The cost is going to be horrendous as the Permanent way and signalling system for high speed running.

Then the cost of the new rolling stock.

Can't see this project taking place anytime soon. Cheaper to fly helicopters back and forth.

There has been no mention of a gauge change in the reports. That means the 1 meter gauge will stay and standard (4'81/2") gauge will possibly be used later.

Thailand needs a modernization of its railways to bring them up to the standard of railways in the U.K. 100 years ago. They had fast, efficient trains before WW1.

If a standard gauge railway system is to be built, it will have to be from the ground up, with, as another poster mentioned, new power and rolling stock.

Fast trains, yes. High speed trains, Not Yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Thailand

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Railway_of_Thailand

For the curious.

Surely it's also possible, if the wider gauge is used, that the new lines could accommodate trains much faster than at present, but not trains such as the Japanese / European / Chinese super fast trains.

Step by step.

[scorecard]

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Talk of duel line freight systems is a start and much more logical than hi speed passenger systems. just a little more on loading and unloading berths also goes hand in hand.

My last post on this , you could also introduce the rule of , where a highway follows or is beside a railway, trucks of 12t and over must use rail , this cuts the amount of trucks on the road also the trucking companies save with higher speeds ,higher turn around times and less wear and tear on the trucks, if trucks are only travelling half way journey , they can be put off at intermediate stations , placed on the back road and off loaded. width=32 alt=coffee1.gif>

Agree, it just needs the right infrastructure specific to fast loading / unloading of 'containers' etc., and some good planning.

[robblok]

347 billion is still no where near the price of the rice scheme..

You do realize that this is a budget, in toady's baht.

The finals costs will be double or triple.

And how will this benefit the masses? How many rice farmers do you think travel by train?

Today ~ 2% of freight - mostly mail - goes by rail, ~ 85% by truck (the remainder by water).

Rail will never be reliable or timely enough for anything but self-loading freight, and the Thai Post.

The reason rail is not used is because its bad now. That could change with better rail.

The rice scheme could cost over 500bil we wil see later. So still a margin.

Rice scheme kept Thailand back in the past, industry could be the future.

Could you give a source for your % of transportation.

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[lomatopo]

Thailand has ~ 4,400 Km of railway, and ~63,000 Km of roads, sorry highways.

Do the math, or don't. Up to you.

Edited June 6, 2014 by lomatopo

[BSJ]

Relaying and new track to standard gauge is do able at a price....but the cost of rolling stock would be a burden on this country for the next 80 years. Sure some bogie wagons could have SG bogies fitted and maybe some of the locomotives, but it would be a hodge podge of equipment that leads to inefficiencies. Then there's the passenger rolling stock you can't have a standard gauge network of stations and old narrow gauge coaches with an 18 - 22 inch gap between the platform and door.

Whatever costings they have on paper now will be much more in future years.

Maybe they should look at one project, complete it successfully then move on to the next.

[northernjohn]

SRT does not have a good record on running things they already have. Let them first deal with their problems and keep the trains running and on the tracks. Costs for double tracks are huge.

..."the country would benefit from the quick construction of dual-track railways." How? Modernising the equipment would be useful and soon will be necessary. The average age of the locomotives is about 40 years(!). Accidents happen quite often. The company has not shown it can run a normal service incuding safety on the tracks.

What you say has historical truth in it. How ever we are now dealing with a different set of players. To their credit the PTP at least I presume it was them and not the Democratic government before them has ordered and soon to receive 20 new locomotives and talk now of ordering another 40.

It only makes sense on some of the runs to double track them. Not all of them but some of them. Not an expert on it but defiantly the line to Chiang Mai could do with a dual track. Along with the dual tracking they could closely inspect the existing track and repair it before a derailment not after.

Also believe the China offer to share on a high speed train through Thailand should be re investigated. May have to be done in stages but would most certainly help with manufacturing in the North East. Also the plan as proposed would not go through villagers and would use bridges over or under Highways. This may be a long term project but it does have in my opinion really good points.

Besides I want to ride on one before I leave this planet behind me and my remains join the Ping River.

[whybother]

Thailand has ~ 4,400 Km of railway, and ~63,000 Km of roads.

Do the math, or don't. Up to you.

Thailand has 180,000 km of road.

Maths done. What's the relevance?

[lomatopo]

but the cost of rolling stock would be a burden on this country for the next 80 years.

Oh snap. somebody forgot to include the cost of locomotives, passenger and freight cars, tunnel expansion, station upgrades.....

Then remember to factor in the cost of replacing tack in the troubled south which gets blown up frequently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Railway_of_Thailand

Scroll down to see the thoroughly modern active locomotives & multiple units

[Prbkk]

Of course Thailand has the money for this! economic fundamentals are strong, potential is enormous, infrastructure is desperately needed to fulfill that potential. Thailand needs some vision and plans to avoid simply being a nation of "hewers of wood and carriers of water". The future is bright and projects like these and others will ensure the created wealth is fairly distributed.

[lomatopo]

What's the relevance?

That it is easier to move freight by road?

[rubl]

The reason rail is not used is because its bad now. That could change with better rail.

The rice scheme could cost over 500bil we wil see later. So still a margin.

Rice scheme kept Thailand back in the past, industry could be the future.

Could you give a source for your % of transportation.

The 'dual-tracking' masterplan called for 325 billion over 15 years leading to tangible results, dual tracks!

The Rice scam will have BAAC pay out close to 1 trillion Baht, with losses 500 billion (somewhat) official today, but likely to rise to 700++ and that's over THREE years only. Tangible results: poor farmers still poor, rice market spoiled.

Guess laying dual track lines is more profitable for Thailand as country and for all Thai.

[lomatopo]

Guess laying dual track lines is more profitable for Thailand as country and for all Thai.

Is the SRT profitable? My guess would be no.

How will a very, very limited dual-track system benefit "all Thai"?

[WhizBang]

Rip the narrow guage single line tracks out and replace with standard guage dual lines. Then scrap all the rolling stock and buy new.

Then, and only then, will Thailand have a viable rail system.

Absolutely no need for a high speed train. Maybe in 50 to 100 years. At least Yingy did one thing, she sorted out the menus for the high speed trains, if and when they ever start.

[whybother]

What's the relevance?

That it is easier to move freight by road?

With all the congestion and damage done to the roads by trucks, it would be better to get what you can off the road.

[whybother]

Guess laying dual track lines is more profitable for Thailand as country and for all Thai.

Is the SRT profitable? My guess would be no.

How will a very, very limited dual-track system benefit "all Thai"?

A dual track system, especially between major industrial areas, will make rail transport much more efficient.

[ourmanflint]

Give the contract to China and it will be done and on time and safely. I would feel safer knowing the whole thing wasn't "homemade".

[ratcatcher]

SRT does not have a good record on running things they already have. Let them first deal with their problems and keep the trains running and on the tracks. Costs for double tracks are huge.

..."the country would benefit from the quick construction of dual-track railways." How? Modernising the equipment would be useful and soon will be necessary. The average age of the locomotives is about 40 years(!). Accidents happen quite often. The company has not shown it can run a normal service incuding safety on the tracks.

What you say has historical truth in it. How ever we are now dealing with a different set of players. To their credit the PTP at least I presume it was them and not the Democratic government before them has ordered and soon to receive 20 new locomotives and talk now of ordering another 40.

It only makes sense on some of the runs to double track them. Not all of them but some of them. Not an expert on it but defiantly the line to Chiang Mai could do with a dual track. Along with the dual tracking they could closely inspect the existing track and repair it before a derailment not after.

Also believe the China offer to share on a high speed train through Thailand should be re investigated. May have to be done in stages but would most certainly help with manufacturing in the North East. Also the plan as proposed would not go through villagers and would use bridges over or under Highways. This may be a long term project but it does have in my opinion really good points.

Besides I want to ride on one before I leave this planet behind me and my remains join the Ping River.

Good post NJ.

Two points:

1. High Speed Trains HST and freight do not a happy marriage make. Fast efficient and SAFE freight and passenger trains do.

2. If you want to ride an HST, I recommend China or Japan as there's a good chance your ashes will have made it all the way to the Gulf of Thailand before we see HST in the Kingdom of Thailand.

[Morch]

Isn't he the same one who said he'll quit if there's another derailment, was on the next train that derailed and ignored

the whole quitting thing?