I have a job that allows me to work from anywhere.

[JLCrab]

Other than a raid on your share office facility, the most likely challenge to the long-term under-the-radar on line (non)worker is when re-entering Thailand and the Immigration official starts to ask you how are you supporting yourself during your long-term stay in Thailand.

[iphad]

If you work in Thailand, whatever the work is, online or even just voluntary work, you need a WORK PERMIT!

If you get paid for the work in Thailand you will need to pay tax in Thailand. Simple. If you get paid overseas then the double taxation agreement between the USA and Thailand will mean you don't have to pay tax in Thailand IF YOU PAY TAX IN THE USA. If you don't pay tax on it in the USA, then you must pay tax on it in Thailand.

If you don't do these things you are breaking the law twice big time, and if you get caught there will be at least a big fine and banning from the country. Don't let other people tell you any different.

So I guess you are saying if a business man from outside of Thailand comes to Thailand for a holiday , then he makes calls or emails re. his business back home that he is working illegally in Thailand ?

[siampolee]

brewsterbudgen post # 31

You don't have to study Thai on an Ed. visa!

Indeed true brewsterbudgen.

I overstated the matter as you so rightly pointed out, however if it is an education visa one needs nay in fact must be actively enrolled in an approved education programme .

Sadly the greater majority of education visas are being used in somewhat creative fashions by those who hold said visa and those who are in a position to supply said visa i..e. schools specializing in Thai and offering other courses of studies as an alternative option to obtaining the correct visa.

In the long term this could bounce back on the legitimate visa holder and more hoops will appear for all to jump through.

Edited June 12, 2014 by siampolee

[larsjohnsson]

But how does that help foreign people in establishing a small company in Thailand then and work?

Such as my Thai spouse can do in Europe from day 1 on without any problem.

You Thai spouse can not work from day one in Europe. At least not the Europe where I came from. You need wp there also if you are not a citizen of that country

[tfranz]

But how does that help foreign people in establishing a small company in Thailand then and work?

Such as my Thai spouse can do in Europe from day 1 on without any problem.

You Thai spouse can not work from day one in Europe. At least not the Europe where I came from. You need wp there also if you are not a citizen of that country

I don't know about every European country.

But this is e.g. about Germany.

Allowed to work from day 1 because married to a German citizen.

That is a huge huge (I could write a 100 more "huge" here) difference to the rights granted to the German in Thailand as a spouse of a Thai national.

And it is something that makes one wonder.

Being allowed to work (as the foreign spouse of a Thai citizen) does not mean that one can buy land for example. And that is fine.

Also the list of jobs that non-Thais are not allowed to do would be still applying to the foreigner.

So, why is it so difficult for the Thai government to let people in this situation work?

Let's take this a little bit further.

The Thai - foreign couple gets a baby. The let's say farang husband wants to set up a life in Thailand with his family.

He is very good in web design, programming, SEO, consultancy whatsoever.

He would like to start a small business to support his family i.e. his Thai wife and his Thai/farang baby (and we all know partly other members of his Thai wife's family).

But the Thai government only let's him do that if he employs 2-4 Thais.

Imagine what could evolve from small businesses like that. They might grow eventually and thus employing more Thais either directly or in other ways.

That's what businesses do many times if you let them do their business and give them the time to grow from within and not by force.

What is the alternative for this small example family?

Take the family to Europe and do the business in Europe.

And then? What is the benefit for Thailand then?

This whole concept in Thailand is not that easy to comprehend.

[KonaRain]

Interweb is o.k. >> transliteration..

The world wide web is the data that runs on the hardware of the internet.. nuff said.

Great points, guys!

alohz

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited June 12, 2014 by KonaRain

[JLCrab]

I have said before: If you can bring significant business from the EU to Thailand, I think you will find persons willing to help you work with contractors. If you wan to come to Thailand, set-up shop and then start looking for customers for yourself in Thailand, you will not find such persons willing to help you.

[tfranz]

JLCrab, I understand your point.

I am just trying to comprehend why as a spouse of a Thai citizen I am not getting more opportunities by the Thai government to establish a small business and THEN grow.

Because ... I am taking care of my Thai wife, maybe a (Thai) baby and for sure a Thai grandmother.

And no, I am not the big business guy with significant business now ... but eventually that is where I plan to be in the near future.

What is the risk for the Thai government?

They don't pay a minimum security to people who don't have enough (like they do in Germany and other European countries).

There is no financial risk for Thailand ... but there is the chance of benefit.

Isn't a government supposed to care about their citizens?

So if they don't care about the foreigners then at least make it easy for the married foreigner to start a small business and care for the Thai citizens within his family.

I know that especially in Thailand you should not ask too much about the "why?" of things.

And I learned that and I even like that sometimes and I don't do that too often anymore. This gives you a more peaceful state of mind. I am fine with that.

I think the described topic here is the only issue I have where I am still looking for the "why?" or "why not?".

Because this affects a whole family (with THAI citizens).

[JLCrab]

My intent here is to maybe give you some ideas as to how you might work with the Thai regulations as they are today. The Thai government is trying to encourage companies to invest in Thailand's on line services and support sector. If persons ex-Thailand can come here and set-up shop with the hope that someday they may prove equal to the companies that might invest today, that is a dis-incentive to those willing to make the investment today.

That -- to the best of my ability to explain -- is why.

FYI Alphabetical list of BOI companies search on 'Software':

http://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=search_promoted&primary_select=C_NAME&primary_sort=asc&secondary_select=OFF_PRO&secondary_sort=asc&language_search=English&province=all&keyword=software

Edited June 12, 2014 by JLCrab

[tfranz]

Thanks JLCrab for an explanation.

I will think about that today.

Although my first thought was ...

"ok that might be a point, but there still is a big difference (or there should be a difference) in the way a government supports a company that wants to invest in Thailand "big time" because it sees business opportunities in Thailand and a foreigner married to a Thai. Both have justified interest in setting up shop in Thailand and should be supported by the Thai government."

But again, thanks for your input. Gives me something to think about.

[JLCrab]

OK -- When one starts saying that business investment and labor policies should be different for someone married to a Thai citizen versus one who is not, one bucks up against Thai social policy which is not to create situations that might encourage 'marriages of convenience'.

[tfranz]

Well, it is in Germany and I guess many other countries.

As a spouse of a German citizen you have immediately more (business) rights and options than someone who is not married to a German citizen (and is not from the EU or other privileged countries)

Edited June 12, 2014 by tfranz

[larsjohnsson]

But how does that help foreign people in establishing a small company in Thailand then and work?

Such as my Thai spouse can do in Europe from day 1 on without any problem.

You Thai spouse can not work from day one in Europe. At least not the Europe where I came from. You need wp there also if you are not a citizen of that country

I don't know about every European country.

But this is e.g. about Germany.

Allowed to work from day 1 because married to a German citizen.

That is a huge huge (I could write a 100 more "huge" here) difference to the rights granted to the German in Thailand as a spouse of a Thai national.

And it is something that makes one wonder.

Being allowed to work (as the foreign spouse of a Thai citizen) does not mean that one can buy land for example. And that is fine.

Also the list of jobs that non-Thais are not allowed to do would be still applying to the foreigner.

So, why is it so difficult for the Thai government to let people in this situation work?

Let's take this a little bit further.

The Thai - foreign couple gets a baby. The let's say farang husband wants to set up a life in Thailand with his family.

He is very good in web design, programming, SEO, consultancy whatsoever.

He would like to start a small business to support his family i.e. his Thai wife and his Thai/farang baby (and we all know partly other members of his Thai wife's family).

But the Thai government only let's him do that if he employs 2-4 Thais.

Imagine what could evolve from small businesses like that. They might grow eventually and thus employing more Thais either directly or in other ways.

That's what businesses do many times if you let them do their business and give them the time to grow from within and not by force.

What is the alternative for this small example family?

Take the family to Europe and do the business in Europe.

And then? What is the benefit for Thailand then?

This whole concept in Thailand is not that easy to comprehend.

No Thai people can work the first day he/she arrive at a EU country.

And not even if you had married her in Thailand before.

Get a WP here if you like to live here and work here. If you don't like the laws and rules here, go and work in another country

Edited June 12, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[JLCrab]

Well, it is in Germany and I guess many other countries.

As a spouse of a German citizen you have immediately more (business) rights and options than someone who is not married to a German citizen (and is not from the EU or other privileged countries)

Comparing policies in Germany/EU to those in Thailand is ridiculous.

[larsjohnsson]

Well, it is in Germany and I guess many other countries.

As a spouse of a German citizen you have immediately more (business) rights and options than someone who is not married to a German citizen (and is not from the EU or other privileged countries)

Comparing policies in Germany/EU to those in Thailand is ridiculous.

Yes I agree. And even more so when what he say is wrong. Thai people need a WP to work in EU

[bangkoklasse]

who really do ever met somebody who got problems working online outside thailand? i guess nobody!

everybody who answer emails, make a bussiness plan, take with friends about work, telefon calls, or write a book,

while in thailand would work illegal here. i guess about 3 Million tourists would be break the law.

Working is not when answer a few e-mails on your holiday. And you know that. All those things you write are just some lame excuses for people who stay here and have some kind of on-line internet work......

And just because you don't get in trouble or have problems, doesn't make it legal

[tfranz]

Well, it is in Germany and I guess many other countries.

As a spouse of a German citizen you have immediately more (business) rights and options than someone who is not married to a German citizen (and is not from the EU or other privileged countries)

Comparing policies in Germany/EU to those in Thailand is ridiculous.

Yes I agree. And even more so when what he say is wrong. Thai people need a WP to work in EU

When a Thai spouse gets the visa for Germany it states "employment allowed" (although not always but I only know it this way).

This is for unrestricted employment first.

Then you have to go to the local immigration office and the visa is converted into a residence title.

Still ... employment allowed.

The foreigner can go and look for a job and with that title he can work.

Another thing is having an own business.

There are prerequisites that you have to meet if you want to set up business.

But the German residence law states that for people with an existing title (as for a spouse of a German) and an allowance for employment these prerequistes are softened immensely.

I have seen that with friends of mine in a very similar situation.

But I have to admit that my statement with "working from day 1 on" was not 100% correct.

Let's say working from "day 20 or 30 or 40 on".

[ParadiseLost]

Well, it is in Germany and I guess many other countries.

As a spouse of a German citizen you have immediately more (business) rights and options than someone who is not married to a German citizen (and is not from the EU or other privileged countries)

Just how does 'someone who is not married to a German citizen (and is not from the EU or other privileged countries)' get into Germany and work there? If you are such a person (as I am) the EU laws are more draconian than Thai...

Therefor the best option is to marry an EU national to get the right to work (or get benefits).

The only reason to marry a Thai is sweet love

I knew I'd messed up somewhere!

Edited June 12, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[tfranz]

You are right ParadiseLost.

The EU/German laws are more draconian to e.g. most Thai people than the other way round.

But here we were talking about married couples of Thai - Farang nationality and how their countries support them in their natural pursuit to take care of their families.

[balo]

So maybe all the posters here scared away the OP ?

This is a discussion that comes up from time to another and you will get different replies every time.

We all know the thai law and we will not encourage people to break the law.

But if you work freelance for a company in the US or Europe, if your bank account is there and not in Thailand . And you only sit at home and use your laptop to work a few hours every day. Hundred thousands of people visiting Thailand do this when they answer emails or talk to people on Skype.

Who can stop you ? Nobody , unless you tell someone about your "illegal" activities.

I have never heard about anyone being blacklisted because of this. Maybe it will happen some day, but you have to be pretty stupid for that to happen to you, like walking into the police station and tell them what you do for a living .

Regarding the Visa, I would recommend ED Visa if you're not married to a Thai . You pay around 20000 baht for 1 year and you will have to go to school up tp 4 hours every week as long as the course last .

This is the safest way today , too many stamps and tourist visas in your passport could mean trouble at the border.

Edited June 12, 2014 by balo

[ParadiseLost]

The only problem I can see with this under cover working is if you are in Thailand more than 180 days in a year. At that point you become liable for tax on worldwide earnings.

I guess nobody pays any attention to this, and it is not enforced now but that does not mean it will never be enforced...

All immigration will need to do is require a tax number from long term stayers to scupper the benefits of earning first world money while enjoying cost of living in a third world county...

[Cypress Hill]

Other than a raid on your share office facility, the most likely challenge to the long-term under-the-radar on line (non)worker is when re-entering Thailand and the Immigration official starts to ask you how are you supporting yourself during your long-term stay in Thailand.

Yes but that challenge is easy to deal with. Bank statements from foreign bank showing ATM withdrawals in Thailand or transfers to Thai bank or a letter from one's Thai bank confirming that funds on deposit are from outside Thailand.

I know a few people who work online and they have money paid into foreign accounts which they eiither draw on through ATMs here or, better still, transfer funds to their Thai banks.

It's so easy, it ought to be illegal.

[JLCrab]

Other than a raid on your share office facility, the most likely challenge to the long-term under-the-radar on line (non)worker is when re-entering Thailand and the Immigration official starts to ask you how are you supporting yourself during your long-term stay in Thailand.

Yes but that challenge is easy to deal with. Bank statements from foreign bank showing ATM withdrawals in Thailand or transfers to Thai bank or a letter from one's Thai bank confirming that funds on deposit are from outside Thailand.

I know a few people who work online and they have money paid into foreign accounts which they eiither draw on through ATMs here or, better still, transfer funds to their Thai banks.

It's so easy, it ought to be illegal.

Sure -- but if they have been long-term in Thailand and deposits/withdrawals are regularly being made via foreign bank accounts during that time, how can one say that they have not been working while in Thailand? At any rate, up to Thai IMM if they so choose.

[Cypress Hill]

Other than a raid on your share office facility, the most likely challenge to the long-term under-the-radar on line (non)worker is when re-entering Thailand and the Immigration official starts to ask you how are you supporting yourself during your long-term stay in Thailand.

Yes but that challenge is easy to deal with. Bank statements from foreign bank showing ATM withdrawals in Thailand or transfers to Thai bank or a letter from one's Thai bank confirming that funds on deposit are from outside Thailand.

I know a few people who work online and they have money paid into foreign accounts which they eiither draw on through ATMs here or, better still, transfer funds to their Thai banks.

It's so easy, it ought to be illegal.

Sure -- but if they have been long-term in Thailand and deposits/withdrawals are regularly being made via foreign bank accounts during that time, how can one say that they have not been working while in Thailand? At any rate, up to Thai IMM if they so choose.

Yeah but it's not Thai immigration's place to ask how the person makes the money that's transferred to a Thai bank, is it?

It could be stock dividends, funds from a sugar dady/mummy, someone paying back a loan or they could simply be wealthy.

All Thai immigration would need to know that the money came from abroad.

Anything beyond that has nothing to do with them

[JLCrab]

Yeah but it's not Thai immigration's place to ask how the person makes the money that's transferred to a Thai bank, is it?

They can ask anything they want and if they don't like the answer, it is totally their discretion what to do next.

You give lots of answers to explain where the money comes from when they are in fact working in Thailand -- maybe they have heard all those and more before.

Edited June 12, 2014 by JLCrab

[Cypress Hill]

Oh well I guess the only income acceptable to the authorities is a pension or that from work permit-backed employment in Thailand.

Wealthy? - Sorry can't help you

Income from investments? - Sorry can't help you

Never mind, though. With the coup leading thousands upon thousands of foreigners to cancel visits to Thailand and immigration grilling and potentially turning away anyone who's been here longer than a year on pretty much any visa, those lucky enough to remain can look forward to feeling the pinch as Thai logic sees businesses INCREASE prices to make up for lost revenue.

[iphad]

who really do ever met somebody who got problems working online outside thailand? i guess nobody!

everybody who answer emails, make a bussiness plan, take with friends about work, telefon calls, or write a book,

while in thailand would work illegal here. i guess about 3 Million tourists would be break the law.

Working is not when answer a few e-mails on your holiday. And you know that. All those things you write are just some lame excuses for people who stay here and have some kind of on-line internet work......

And just because you don't get in trouble or have problems, doesn't make it legal

I think there is a gray area of working online or have a business overseas...and in your mind they are working while in Thailand and it is illegal.

There are many people that come to Thailand & buy silver,handcrafted products or whatever, then take back to their respective countries to sell..are they working?..is it legal?

and probably many people working online, or traveling, writing a blog,taking photos etc.

Buying copy software or movies etc is illegal also..

Prostitution is illegal too.

Some people I have met working as teachers here have fake documents.

So if someone is supporting themselves working online, I'm not sure why you would be so concerned or upset ... or who gets to draw the line to what is working legal or not.

I am guessing you are telling the OP that he can't live here because although he can work from anywhere... not Thailand because it's illegal?

[ParadiseLost]

I am guessing you are telling the OP that he can't live here because although he can work from anywhere... not Thailand because it's illegal?

Please tell me where it is legal to do so - I will be on the first flight...

[JLCrab]

Oh well I guess the only income acceptable to the authorities is a pension or that from work permit-backed employment in Thailand.

Wealthy? - Sorry can't help you

Income from investments? - Sorry can't help you

Never mind, though. With the coup leading thousands upon thousands of foreigners to cancel visits to Thailand and immigration grilling and potentially turning away anyone who's been here longer than a year on pretty much any visa, those lucky enough to remain can look forward to feeling the pinch as Thai logic sees businesses INCREASE prices to make up for lost revenue.

It's already happening -- my favorite roast duck won ton went from 35 to 40 baht.

[iphad]

I am guessing you are telling the OP that he can't live here because although he can work from anywhere... not Thailand because it's illegal?

Please tell me where it is legal to do so - I will be on the first flight...

I just see many people doing it....1 guy I know in my condo sells on ebay...been here for years..another is a programmer on a education visa.& many more ie.

I certainly wouldn't be telling them they can't do it because it's illegal.

As I said I think it's a gray area...if funds deposited in a foreign bank and they not taking money from Thai business.....

Not for me to say it's illegal........Kinda same to tell someone not to buy illegal software or take a prostitute..."It's illegal don't ya know don't do it" ... although getting laughed at is kinda fun.

And to most people if they could do it..they probably would.