Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Possibly the best action would be to give a short period for all who have transgressed to put their visa in order without penalty before the rules are implemented. The additional workload could be manages by scrapping the 90 day report freeing staff.

Rubbish - why should people get away with breaking and abusing the law?

Probably because breaking and abusing the law in Thailand is normal for everyone, from the top, to the bottom of society.

[mrtoad]

Possibly the best action would be to give a short period for all who have transgressed to put their visa in order without penalty before the rules are implemented. The additional workload could be manages by scrapping the 90 day report freeing staff.

They announced some while back that they were going to tighten up on immigration. Anyone with long term plans to stay here should have planned ahead and got the right visa. This really wont affect genuine tourists, but will start tidying up the riff raff that have been abusing Thailands immigration laws. No point moaning about how 10 years ago it was easier, times have changed live with it.

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[mrtoad]

Noted that ED visas are not being touted too much as an option. I am guessing that abuse is going to be dralt with next.

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Edited July 8, 2014 by mrtoad

[bangers101]

The number of posts by people revelling in other's misfortune speaks to the collective (lack of) mental and emotional health of the usual suspects, and the many new ones who seem to have been drawn out of the woodwork by this turn of events. It is frankly disgusting.

And to those comparing the rules and their administration in Thailand to those in the US, UK, etc., the difference is a major one: due process.

In the US, at least, people who are blacklisted will have had their day in court; likewise, deportees will have been heard by competent, if not sympathetic, officers of the court. No individual will be blacklisted by the front line thugs at Customs and Border Patrol...

Other differences are too numerous to mention, but include no reporting once a permission to stay has been granted (green card), etc.

Contrast this with the largely de facto power of the average farang-despising immigration officer to exercise caprice in handing out red stamps in your passport. Consider also that it is largely a crap-shoot as to whether you encounter one of those farang-haters, or one who is merely jealous, or one who didn't get laid the previous evening, etc, etc, etc., or one of the relatively professional and competent ones who try to administer the law fairly.

One suspects that many of the more strident advocates of the "have your ducks in a row, and no harm shall befall thee" myth have their uncomplicated and repeatable routine worked out at one of the more quaint local offices where such professional and farang-friendly officers ply their careers. Chaeng Wattana, and Suan Plu before it, are/were never so predictable. Nor is it predictable as to what your reception, and subsequent treatment will be like if you move to a new city or province.

Having lived in Bangkok for quite a few years, and then moved to Nong Khai, I can attest to the utter bull$hit you may have to abide if you move somewhere, in foolish regard only to the pleasantness of the place, and ignorantly trust that you will deal with a reasonable and professional immigration staff. Fortunately, until about 2011, the price was only to buy a bag of cookies from the chubby immigration lady, and then you were stamped in with a smile...

And it has only gotten worse. The rules used to be subject to a bit of softening at the sight of a purple note; it was a necessarily unwritten rule, but if everyone was on the same page, it was done gracefully, and everyone went home satisfied and relatively happy. Now, knuckleheads insist on bringing their Western anti-graft sensibilities with them, and foreign governments impose theirs from without, engendering even more anti-foreign sentiment among those whose rice bowls have been broken.

So, it's no wonder that Pol Col Somchai doesn't smile much, or exchange pleasantries with Billy-Bob with his iPad and new pickup in the lot as he has to stamp the guy in for another 90 days or one year. The officer can no longer extort enough to show the trappings necessary to actually get to home plate with the young thing of his fancy...

So, it's not really a lack of respect for the "rules", whatever they may ACTUALLY be, it's the lack of consistency, and lack of recourse that make it incomparable to the Western countries so popular in the posts of the schadenfreudists.

Some Jingthing character has been fighting the wishful thinking and outright lunacy of the deniers throughout this thread. One wonders: why does he bother? Anyone who can not parse the clear and obvious meaning of the statement:

"Overstay for less than 1 year > Forbidden from re-entering the kingdom for 5 years."

is not worth arguing with.

Personally, although it was heartbreaking to do so, I have left Thailand, not so much owing to the vagaries of my own ability to stay, but due to outright abuse of my poor Filipino wife, who was subject to untoward comments from immigrations staff, in Nong Khai, and in Bangkok, and even in Vientiane. It was the correct decision, but not a happy one.

In 30+ years, this is the farthest I have seen the pendulum swing, and I don't dare hope to live long enough to see it return to the point where foreigners can retire with any sense of security or fairness. Thailand is failing, and as Thais will do, will blame everyone but themselves until the bottom is hit. We're easy targets these days, and no matter the parachute, the ground is coming up fast...

------------------------------------------

Such bitter bile has it's source somewhere other than a clear view of immigrations rules. The rules for visiting Thailand are clear enough for most of us. and the requirements for long-term stay or residency are there to read in detail. Comparisons are odious at best, and Thailand may well be more strict than it's immediate neighbours, but compare Thailand with countries around Peru or Kenya and the picture is clear that Thailand is, in fact, very easy-going, even with the new rules.

There is no "right" to leave your country, choose a wife from another country and live the rest of your days in a third country with which neither you nor your wife has any connection. Thailand extends a warm welcome to those who visit within the rules , and who maintain a happy and respectful disposition towards their hosts, but you are always a foreigner.

As an aside -- reciprocity of immigration rules is not a "requirement" of any country unless there isa bi-lateral agreement. If reciprocity was across the board, the "holier-than-thou" EU, US and OZ would get the blame for the draconian immigration requirements.

If you read the proposed penalties for overstay, you have to admit they look draconian..... I traveled through the land border not long ago and I was told I would only get a 15 day visa on arrival but I got 30 days on arrival. Its difficult to be clear when you change the rules all the time.

Perhaps immigration should set up a monthly subscription service so tourists and travellers can get the latest updates on the ever changing and evolving visa regulations....... Honestly! its badly timed and badly thought out and is going to scare lots of people away from what is become the lance armstrong of tourist destinations. (5 star hotels are 50% down) .... what's next? erecting a getto at Kao San?

[neverdie]

Noted that ED vusas are being touted too much as an option. I am guessing that abuse is going to be dralt with next.

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Indeed.

I have recently written to the immigration chief about the need to tighten the rules surrounding this visa opportunity.

Hopefully they close it right up and make it so that genuine students only need apply

[Sealbash]

I read that (in the US) a name change in the court costs $200 and a new passport costs $120. Problem solved?

How much to change fingerprints?

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[smedly]

So is there now going to be a mass exit of people on overstay to avoid the ban

and if they can't pay the fine and fare - selling a kidney

it's all falling into place lol

[simon43]

Just to repeat (again), the correct interpretation of these overstay rules that JingThing mentioned.

If you overstay from 1 day to 365 days, and are apprehended before you get to the border to confess your overstay, then you are/could be subject to a 5-year blacklisting.

I mention this only because it seems some posters are unable to understand basic English - if you're not a native speaker of English then that's quite acceptable - if you are a native speaker, can I politely suggest a return to school? (ED visa??)

I'd be surprised at a one day overstay resulting in the 5 year ban being implemented.

Perhaps true - would you like to be the 'guinea-pig' to test this?????

Edited July 8, 2014 by simon43

[mrtoad]

Noted that ED vusas are being touted too much as an option. I am guessing that abuse is going to be dralt with next.

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Indeed.

I have recently written to the immigration chief about the need to tighten the rules surrounding this visa opportunity.

Hopefully they close it right up and make it so that genuine students only need apply

Interesting how i saw an email yesterday from a visa company offering a "no study" ED visa for 17,000. Some people have made good money out of this loophole in yhe past few years, but if i had shares in it, i would be dumping them pdq

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[kingalfred]

I can't believe there are so many posters on this thread crying about how it's not fair that they won't be able to break the law so easily any longer.

There are rules and regulations for anyone who wants to live in a foreign country. If you currently can't meet the requirements, go home and come back when you can.

Hahaha.... Yes, and there was a loophole that people took advantage of and stayed here and started a life. Same as in buying a house using a business, loophole. Should they close that one too and take all those homes from people who are going against the spirt of the law. Advise them that they need to sell by August 12th or loose it to the bank...You think the people who are loosing this current loophole would be judging you same ??? Be careful what you say ....there are few farang who live a 100% legal life.

I've overstayed due to a cock up by an employer. Was only a few days (about 2 years ago) but still. They actually LOST my passport...and then found it as I was about to grovel at the British Embassy for help.

On your last sentence I would amend it to 'there are few farang and Thai'. I know a few teachers that have worked without permits (you're not seeing many now). I;ve also seen shit loads of Thais working on food stalls or whatever. Something tells me that some of those won't be paying tax.

More power to 'em, I say. The Thais, that is. Any westerner applauding these new rules (more every day it seems) needs their bumps feeling. Applaud away. Until you're affected that is. If you look at it logically, it's gone like this:

1) UK/EU accepts TESOL/A levels for many TESOL jobs legally (apart from the British Council). Most of the World accept any degree+TESOL/CELTA to do the job. Including Japan/S.Korea/Singapore. Thailand is asking for a degree in Education to teach here. It used to be any degree. You can get a waiver for a few years and then..you're out unless you can pay for a Masters on a Thai salary. Possible, but why is Thailand becoming so strict compared to other nations? It's not like it's easy sorting visas/permits. The salaries are pretty low compared to other nations. Not like you're also made to feel like a criminal by 90 day reporting ( is that all about?)

2.After the 'waiver' thing...we've got the tourist visa thingy. I can see the point of this one to be fair. Only problem is with those changing jobs. You need to do a border hop to cancel the visa in order to get a new one for the permit. So, when the Imm officer asks you ''Are you coming into Thailand as a tourist, you have to lie! That one needs sorting out. Surely, a transfer of employer should be allowed on a work permit? Hell, charge folk if you like to check docs again etc.

3. After waivers and tourists...let's get the ED Visas! First, those language schools are being targetted. I can see why. However, targetting those doing a full time degree at a Thai Uni is a bit cruel. Again, I'm sure some may be earning a few quid on the side doing private lessons to pay for a drink with the wife on a Saturday night...but most nations allow foreign students to do some kind of work on a Education Visa. Leave those on degree courses alone, just my two cents. By 'leave alone' I mean not asking for too much income from abroad half way through their studies as well as a grilling every three months.

4. Next, this Elite card/Visa gathers pace. Interesting. Anyone seeing what's going on yet?

5. Overstay thing. I can see the point of this one. Overstaying for 10 years is taking the piss. Short overstays for Admin problems by an employer/passport theft/illness should be taken into account. I'm sure it does to be fair, but maybe it depends on the mood of an officer.

6. What's next? Well, what's left? I'm thinking retirement/marriage visas next. Perhaps not. Everyone will know soon as things are happening fast. I think the marriage visa applications are a bit cruel. If you had lived in most nations with a wife from that country for a decade, you would probably be given leave to remain (in many cases). Here, you could have 1m in your account for years. Work on a permit and then you or a close one gets seriously ill. You spend most of your savings on the treatment and are just short of the 400k limit. Let's say it's you and you can't work for six months whilst you recuperate as your visa ends. A similar thing could happen on a retirement visa if they suddenly up the amount. You could've been here for 40 years, have grandkids here, sent them all to nice schools, paid for the medical, built a house or two, paid taxes and generally been a good thing for Thailand..... Any compassion? Nope. Be gone. That sort of shit isn't fair in my eyes. But it's one that could happen to anyone and one reason I'm not planning on a long stay.

well didnt wanna quote this,but as it's a pile of whining,self serving rhetoric...........

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[GoonDizzy]

^

Glad you liked it!

[Bellacissa]

Noted that ED vusas are being touted too much as an option. I am guessing that abuse is going to be dralt with next.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Indeed.

I have recently written to the immigration chief about the need to tighten the rules surrounding this visa opportunity.

Hopefully they close it right up and make it so that genuine students only need apply

I'm coming in January on an ED visa. As in, I'm not going to work at all (my husband's income will support me) and I'm actually going to learn the Thai language. Of course, all of that now hinges on whether it's a legitimate visa by the time I get there in January.

What are the chances that I'll get my tuition back from the language school if the rules change? That's a rhetorical question. I'm sure the answer is zero percent. I already have a bachelor's degree and no desire to get my master's degree, so a "real" university is not really an option.

Oh well, I'll just keep my fingers crossed. But, no matter what visa I end up qualifying for, I can promise that I'll be a good girl and report every 90 days just like the nice immigration man tells me to. I'll even go EARLY to be sure I don't screw up. I have a healthy respect for the government. Whoever they are at the time.

[Skywalker69]

So you think people should be punished...so long as it's for something you "never do" - that's a fairly safe point of view, don't you think?

Nonsense. I am a retired law enforcer and law abiding citizen. Previously I have received a couple of traffic fines for flouting the law, once was a parking fine Andre other time was for riding a bike without a lid. Both times I gladly accepted my medicine and moved on. I felt no need to create a forum thread and carry on about it.

It's not hard to stay on the right side of the law, especially ones as important as immigration.

Wow! A retired law enforcer. You should become a TV moderator; you'd be perfect.

Take your meds and go back to bed.

[nicolas18]

Are you suggesting that ED visas are not being abused?

ND has every right to complain about bogus ED visas.

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And how does it matter to YOU?

Are these people somehow less savory than the retired sexpat who happens to be old enough to have a retirement visa?

[theoldgit]

Flame and quoted response removed.

[mrtoad]

Are you suggesting that ED visas are not being abused?

ND has every right to complain about bogus ED visas.

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And how does it matter to YOU?

Are these people somehow less savory than the retired sexpat who happens to be old enough to have a retirement visa?

It seems to concern you. Which one are u?

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[neverdie]

Are you suggesting that ED visas are not being abused?

ND has every right to complain about bogus ED visas.

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And how does it matter to YOU?

Are these people somehow less savory than the retired sexpat who happens to be old enough to have a retirement visa?

nocolas,

Make a few inquiries before you flame. MrToad is no where near the retirement age. He is a business man with the correct visas and paperwork.

You could do a lot worse than to listen to the advice he gives as hes in his second decade in Thailand and I believe hes never had an overstay either.

Do things like MrToad and you havent got a worry in the world. Okay, dokey? Consider yourself admonished.

Edited July 8, 2014 by neverdie

[nicolas18]

Are you suggesting that ED visas are not being abused?

ND has every right to complain about bogus ED visas.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And how does it matter to YOU?

Are these people somehow less savory than the retired sexpat who happens to be old enough to have a retirement visa?

nocolas,

Make a few inquiries before you flame. MrToad is no where near the retirement age. He is a business man with the correct visas and paperwork.

You could do a lot worse than to listen to the advice he gives as hes in his second decade in Thailand and I believe hes never had an overstay either.

Do things like MrToad and you havent got a worry in the world. Okay, dokey? Consider yourself admonished.

I have never had an overstay either, and I am working legally with a Non-B. So please spare me the condescending cr*p.

Oh, and I also do not spend my days worrying about what type of visas my fellow expats happen to have.

[mrtoad]

Are you suggesting that ED visas are not being abused?

ND has every right to complain about bogus ED visas.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And how does it matter to YOU?

Are these people somehow less savory than the retired sexpat who happens to be old enough to have a retirement visa?

nocolas,

Make a few inquiries before you flame. MrToad is no where near the retirement age. He is a business man with the correct visas and paperwork.

You could do a lot worse than to listen to the advice he gives as hes in his second decade in Thailand and I believe hes never had an overstay either.

Do things like MrToad and you havent got a worry in the world. Okay, dokey? Consider yourself admonished.

I have never had an overstay either, and I am working legally with a Non-B. So please spare me the condescending cr*p.

Oh, and I also do not spend my days worrying about what type of visas my fellow expats happen to have.

Are ED visas being abused? Answer the question.

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[neverdie]

Are you suggesting that ED visas are not being abused?

ND has every right to complain about bogus ED visas.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

And how does it matter to YOU?

Are these people somehow less savory than the retired sexpat who happens to be old enough to have a retirement visa?

nocolas,

Make a few inquiries before you flame. MrToad is no where near the retirement age. He is a business man with the correct visas and paperwork.

You could do a lot worse than to listen to the advice he gives as hes in his second decade in Thailand and I believe hes never had an overstay either.

Do things like MrToad and you havent got a worry in the world. Okay, dokey? Consider yourself admonished.

I have never had an overstay either, and I am working legally with a Non-B. So please spare me the condescending cr*p.

Oh, and I also do not spend my days worrying about what type of visas my fellow expats happen to have.

You are attacking other posters for no reason. You flamed mrtoad for no reason, I wonder what your motivation for that was. Now you are attacking me.

its easy for all to see what you are worried about & your 'coverstory' seems doubtful.

Goodbye.

[smotherb]

Bugger ... that's going to stuff up a lot of the plans of the overstayers.

I hope there are the usual exemptions such as 'Medical' etc.

I don't think people actually plan to overstay. It's just that circumstances tend to overtake them and they get in a mess.

Best of luck to all people in that situation.

The way the statement is written, it says, " . . . plans of the overstayers . . .," meaning the plans of those who have overstayed and not those who plan to overstay. Another reason proper punctuation is necessary.

[tonytigerbkk]

ND, did you get your TGAU in time for NGD?

[rebelplatoon]

I agree that there seem to be quite a few TV members who are in a lucky position (now) and seem it fit to laugh at others in a difficult situation. If you know the visa rules these situations can be brought about by a number of reasons. Money, wife left, status changed, pension lowered,

passport mislaid or thrown out or kept by jealous wife, whatever. Everyone hits a 'Bump' in life sometimes. Instead of being compassionate there s this 5555 good riddance mentality. Pathetic to say the least. Like I said before: when xenophobia hits the fan, you never know what they change next. Then you ll find out we re all in the same boat. Visitors in a country that can make it hard for us. Yes, right now I am in a safe position, it gives me no right to be judgmental of the plight of others who are less lucky.

All in all, a grace period would be a good idea. Report now, solve the problem and no blacklist. After the grace period, you re on your own.

[crazykopite]

And I read they want the Country to become the number one tourist destination !! Not a chance when they appear to make it harder for visitors to stay for a longer period

[kamahele]

Sounds fair to me. Break the rules, pay the penalty. I would assume this would be normal for most countries. Just my assumption. I have a friend who overstayed his visa in the USA and he can't go back.

[larsjohnsson]

I mean really what is gained for all the headaches of these visa's??,,

So all the visa thing is for as far as I can see is to annoy everybody and send a message that Thailand is for Thais and that you might be permitted to stay for now, but we can change the law tomorrow and get rid of you just like that like that then we’ll have all your nice Villas and cars and we who wield the power will grow richer from your losses and laugh at the dumb farang who thought he was above us just because he thought he had more money.( then the statement would be followed by manic laughter)

Why would anybody buy houses and cars if they don't even have a proper visa???

[Soutpeel]

And I read they want the Country to become the number one tourist destination !! Not a chance when they appear to make it harder for visitors to stay for a longer period

They are not making anything harder for genuine visitors to stay longer periods, they are targeting the people who are abusing the system who are not genuine visitors to stay "permanently" in Thailand without the proper paperwork, is this really so hard to understand

The 2 & 3 week millionaires will still come to Thailand to spend cash, and shag themselves silly, that's not going to change

[jacko45k]

Depressing to see so many people saying "great to see life getting harder for someone other than me"

What people forget is, there are no good immigration bureaucracies in the world. The western ones mostly suck too. Immigrants are some of the most vulnerable people in the world. Thousands of people fall through the cracks, can't get visas, get separated from their loved ones, etc. because of inflexible bureaucracies.

For a long time one of the attractions of Thailand was that it was easy to come and go. I don't promote overstaying, but if they want to clean up corruption and enforce the law, how about starting with corrupt cops, or hi-so Thais who literally get away with murder? Because foreigners are an easy target that have no rights and no political representation.

If you're cheering on these changes that's what you're supporting -- selective law enforcement that goes after the easy targets.

Who knows where this stops, my concern is that it will continue to a point where living legally in Thailand gets too hard, and then that's one less great place in the world where I can live.

These retirees living smugly on their farms should be next. Confiscate their land and triple the retirement income requirement. Don't let that door you love hit YOUR ass this time.

They don't own any land!

[Oziex1]

And I read they want the Country to become the number one tourist destination !! Not a chance when they appear to make it harder for visitors to stay for a longer period

Making it hard? Ivé stayed for up to 90 days by getting a tourist visa from my home country. I agree bureaucracy and filling out all those forms is a pain, but can be done.

[crazykopite]

All these thousands of overstayers do pay into the economy some way or other as they still have to buy clothes and food it is not like the UK where the government hand out benefits every week I have met a few they seem to be single retired people who survive on the pensions they get from back home. Maybe while the government are looking into these matters they will make one rule for everyone and that is one must have the same amount of income at the moment if you are married to a Thai your income requirement is only 40,000 per month as opposed to 65,000 per month which I find to be totally unfair