South Thailand border crossings reports problems to enter with 60-days tourist visas "TR60"

[Essex Exile]

If one has a Non-0 visa based on marriage, does it state on the visa that this is why you qualified for said visa?

Furthermore, what else qualifys a person to apply for a NON-0? We know they are no longer generally available not even in Europe, having children here without being married doesn't qualify you, if you are retired you would be on an extension of stay and then you have the education visa. So what else except for being married allows you to apply for a NON-O?

Marriage to a Thai, having a Thai child, being 50 or over, being the family member of a person living here, working as a volunteer or anything else that an embassy or consulate deems that fits under the non-o category.

Having a Thai child alone doesn't qualify you unless you have custody papers. Being over 50? Not sure about that and why wouldn't you be on a retirement type visa? I know for sure that you cannot get a NON-O from the UK unless you are 65+. So as I suspected, not a lot.

[hawker9000]

@IMA: If a double-entry tourist visa is not intended as a "long-stay visa" (by which I have to assume you mean the max 180d it could theoretically be used for), then why is it issued with a validity window that forces you to use the two entries practically back-to-back? My last one, despite being for a double-entry, only had a 90-day validity window. And THAT'S from the date of ISSUE, which was in the U.S., NOT from the date of first entry! And as any wise man knows, Thailand provides for an optional 30d extension which it will happily accept your money for, in connection with EACH of those entries! What you're saying will appeal to the righteous & smug (if not so wise), but doesn't really quite make sense. And the same for triple-entry visas: you can only get a max 180d validity window as far as I know.

If Thailand really doesn't want people staying for 90d, or 180d, or 270d, as tourists (as you seem to be preaching), then DON'T sell them the visas! Simple. If it wants some arbitrary "gone time" between each exit & entry, then SPECIFY THAT! Just SAY SO! It would be EASY!

A wiser, less pompous man might suggest that tourist visas were never intended to be used on a back-to-back-to-back basis, with foreigners only out of Thailand only long enough to obtain, and only for the purpose of obtaining, new ones when the old is used up. Even then, the limitations could easily be made more explicit and understandable. As an example (and this is only an example; these limitations could work in a number of ways), just declare that a person cannot be in the country on a tourist visa for more than xx days in any 6-month or 12-month (or yy-month) period, or that there must be a minimum zz days between each exit and entry, or that only one tourist visa can be issued within any 6/12/?? month period. So many ways to skin this cat. And all better than the current guessing game and lottery. Simply define the terms and declare the limits of use, and let the issuing consulates & embassies in on the secret as well. Get everyone - IOs, issuing authorities, and travelers - on the same page.

Sounds very familiar, has been tried and proven not to work, too impractical at the border.

There really is no guessing game at the moment: tourists are very welcome and can enter, if in doubt some questions will be asked, people living here on tourist visa are in for a hard time.

You actually mean people thought to be living in Thailand on a tourist visa. And that's the crux of the matter. That shouldn't be as subjective and arbitrary a determination as it currently is. If I only stay in Thailand for as little as a week, you could technically say I "lived" there for a week. So that sort of statement or criteria is of absolutely no help, and in fact contributes to the confusion and arbitrariness that's fueling so much of this discussion in so many different threads.

You make a very precise statement about what's been tried and has failed at the border ("has been tried and proven not to work"). Please support this statement; I'm not aware of this. The only such limitation I AM aware of was one that imposed awhile back a maximum of so many days in country within a certain period (90d out of 180, or 180 in a yr - not sure), and I only think it applied to those in the visa exempt program, or possibly on tourist visas as well. It was rescinded, but I've never heard it was because it was "unenforceable" or "proven not to work" (not sure what that would even mean). There are reports here currently of IOs scrutinizing passports in excruciating detail; certainly with enough attention to make the simple determination that someone has been here more than 90d within just the last 6mos, or 180d within the last year! (And in some cases, not currently actually doing exactly that!!)

[DrTuner]

It may be worth remembering that those on a NON-O based on marriage can, I believe, extend your stay at any immigration by 60 das as long as you take the wife with you? This would mean only having to leave the country every 150 days.

Worth posting this one again: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf . It's 2.24, you don't even need a visa to get that one.

I am a bit worried about this police order being revamped. When I came here in 2007, the marriage extension did not have the 400k baht in bank option. If they fiddle with it again, I still have the Thai kid option, should they change that too .. screwed.

I wish immigration would be more transparent about the changes they are contemplating and actually allow discussion, instead of just blurting them out suddenly.

[RTH10260]

I sincerely hope that Joe is correct in his view, and I suspect he is, that those with re-entry permits would have no problem.

....

(an obvious question here is whether its the responsibility of the Consulate to make that call before you get anywhere near the border. Do Consular staff have the training necessary to act as Immigration officers and if you were running a business, would you want to turn people away when the fees they paid were your primary revenue stream ? Rhetorical questions but it would be interesting to know how many get any direct training from Immigration)

As I just mentioned upthread, consular fees will not be the only income, but folks on correct visa will get their yearly extension and the Revenue Department will get its turn on the expats income stream.

[stevenl]

You actually mean people thought to be living in Thailand on a tourist visa. And that's the crux of the matter. That shouldn't be as subjective and arbitrary a determination as it currently is. If I only stay in Thailand for as little as a week, you could technically say I "lived" there for a week. So that sort of statement or criteria is of absolutely no help, and in fact contributes to the confusion and arbitrariness that's fueling so much of this discussion in so many different threads.

You make a very precise statement about what's been tried and has failed at the border ("has been tried and proven not to work"). Please support this statement; I'm not aware of this. The only such limitation I AM aware of was one that imposed awhile back a maximum of so many days in country within a certain period (90d out of 180, or 180 in a yr - not sure), and I only think it applied to those in the visa exempt program, or possibly on tourist visas as well. It was rescinded, but I've never heard it was because it was "unenforceable" or "proven not to work" (not sure what that would even mean). There are reports here currently of IOs scrutinizing passports in excruciating detail; certainly with enough attention to make the simple determination that someone has been here more than 90d within just the last 6mos, or 180d within the last year! (And in some cases, not currently actually doing exactly that!!)

You're making a fool of yourself now.

[slipperylobster]

Which brings me to this situation......

I have a double entry tourist visa. My first entry, along with the 30 day extension has been used.

So now I will be flying into Kuala Lumpur for two days of travel, then flying back into Thailand (Chiang Mai) for my second entry.

This thread has only mentioned denial of "New Tourist Visas" at Land Borders. Mine is a second entry on a previously issued double entry ....and I will be flying back in.

Am I correct in the assumption that second entries are permitted on tourist visas (I have a history of 4 back to back visa exempt land border runs. Will this affect me?

[emiinnz]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

After denied entry did they let you freely go and buy flight ticket to freely selected destination outside of Thailand? Would it be possible to buy ticket online in that situation?

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

There will be someone collecting you and the person will be from the airline you flew in with, no many options as they said they need to get authorization and have paperwork to be done. They will also try to get you direct flight (at least in my case) and ask you to pay by either cash or C.C.

So... you cannot book flight online and won't have too many choices.

[Essex Exile]

It may be worth remembering that those on a NON-O based on marriage can, I believe, extend your stay at any immigration by 60 das as long as you take the wife with you? This would mean only having to leave the country every 150 days.

Worth posting this one again: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf . It's 2.24, you don't even need a visa to get that one.

I am a bit worried about this police order being revamped. When I came here in 2007, the marriage extension did not have the 400k baht in bank option. If they fiddle with it again, I still have the Thai kid option, should they change that too .. screwed.

I wish immigration would be more transparent about the changes they are contemplating and actually allow discussion, instead of just blurting them out suddenly.

So if you are married here with a family to support they won't let you in? Scaremongerers may tell you otherwise but I really don't see it coming to that as that would be absolutely absurd and I would imagine break some kind of human rights violation. It would actually be completely laughable. Don't stress about that one.

[Essex Exile]

Which brings me to this situation......

I have a double entry tourist visa. My first entry, along with the 30 day extension has been used.

So now I will be flying into Kuala Lumpur for two days of travel, then flying back into Thailand (Chiang Mai) for my second entry.

This thread has only mentioned denial of "New Tourist Visas" at Land Borders. Mine is a second entry on a previously issued double entry ....and I will be flying back in.

Am I correct in the assumption that second entries are permitted on tourist visas (I have a history of 4 back to back visa exempt land border runs. Will this affect me?

My gut feeling is that you will be ok, particuarly at an airport, but it's all a bit sketchy right now, but in their eyes they may ask why you have been on 'holiday' for 6 months plus. When are you due to leave,? Just keep an eye on things. I don't know the legal standpoint with this issue, but how can a Thai consult/Embassy issue someone with a valid toursist visa then when arriving into Thailand tell you that you cannot come in? Absolutely absurd IMO.

[Bubblefunk]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

@emilnnz - v sorry to hear about this.

This is also my concern. Having spent over a year in Thailand on back to back Visas, will I now be turned down by ALL other Consulates for a visa application in other countries? Is it now advisable to leave the country every 30 days for visa exemption? (If you're from UK, US, AUS etc).

[ubonjoe]

It may be worth remembering that those on a NON-O based on marriage can, I believe, extend your stay at any immigration by 60 das as long as you take the wife with you? This would mean only having to leave the country every 150 days.

Worth posting this one again: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf . It's 2.24, you don't even need a visa to get that one.

I am a bit worried about this police order being revamped. When I came here in 2007, the marriage extension did not have the 400k baht in bank option. If they fiddle with it again, I still have the Thai kid option, should they change that too .. screwed.

I wish immigration would be more transparent about the changes they are contemplating and actually allow discussion, instead of just blurting them out suddenly.

The 400k baht in Thai bank for extensions based upon marriage was in the police order in 2007. In fact at that time if could be in a joint account and the 40k income could also be your wife's or a combination of yours and hers.

Police order 777/2551 eliminated the wife's income option and joint accounts.

There has been no indication from immigration that will be any changes made to the extension rules.

[Essex Exile]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

@emilnnz - v sorry to hear about this.

This is also my concern. Having spent over a year in Thailand on back to back Visas, will I now be turned down by ALL other Consulates for a visa application in other countries? Is it now advisable to leave the country every 30 days for visa exemption? (If you're from UK, US, AUS etc).

?????? You HAVE to leave every 30 days fro visa exemption.

[ubonjoe]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

@emilnnz - v sorry to hear about this.

This is also my concern. Having spent over a year in Thailand on back to back Visas, will I now be turned down by ALL other Consulates for a visa application in other countries? Is it now advisable to leave the country every 30 days for visa exemption? (If you're from UK, US, AUS etc).

Only the embassy in Singapore has used that excuse for not issuing a tourist visa and his is not the first it has happened. Tourist visas are still available at other embassies and consulates.

I would certainly not advise to plan on being able to stay here for a long period of time on exempt entries. They are the primary target of the recent "crackdown".

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

After denied entry did they let you freely go and buy flight ticket to freely selected destination outside of Thailand? Would it be possible to buy ticket online in that situation?

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

There will be someone collecting you and the person will be from the airline you flew in with, no many options as they said they need to get authorization and have paperwork to be done. They will also try to get you direct flight (at least in my case) and ask you to pay by either cash or C.C.

So... you cannot book flight online and won't have too many choices.

Certainly looks bad, how did you eventually enter Thailand?

[Essex Exile]

Does anyone know for sure if one would qualify for a NON-O in Savanakhet based on having a Thai child, but without custody papers? This still seems a grey area?

[MrWorldwide]

It may be worth remembering that those on a NON-O based on marriage can, I believe, extend your stay at any immigration by 60 das as long as you take the wife with you? This would mean only having to leave the country every 150 days.

Worth posting this one again: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf . It's 2.24, you don't even need a visa to get that one.

I am a bit worried about this police order being revamped. When I came here in 2007, the marriage extension did not have the 400k baht in bank option. If they fiddle with it again, I still have the Thai kid option, should they change that too .. screwed.

I wish immigration would be more transparent about the changes they are contemplating and actually allow discussion, instead of just blurting them out suddenly.

Suddenly ? Other than the overstay punishments announced a couple of days back. the rest of it was foreshadowed back in May. I posted a link to the Thaivisa thread from late May containing details of the August 12 crackdown earlier in this thread. I dont believe it was ever up for discussion - the article claims Immigration wanted to forewarn visa run companies and others involved in the travel industry and their warning was blunt - 'Some companies will not like these changes, but they need to ask themselves if they really love Thailand'. Like it, or lump it

[smedly]

Look, if you have been here more than 180 days doing back to back border runs of any kind then you are going to have difficulties either getting another visa or getting back into the country even if you manage to get a visa unless you leave for a prolonged period- that is basically simple

If you are married - have children - are retired and over 50 - and meet the requirements get a proper visa then extension of stay based on that visa (usually a Type O or converted from tourist visa to type O at Thai immigration )

If you cannot do the above or don't meet the requirements including finances - then you are shafted

is that plain enough

[RTH10260]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

Could you give some details please - on the face of it this seems like a game changer. Which country are you from? would you normally be allowed to enter for 30 days on a visa exempt stamp? How long have you been in Thailand? which airport did you arrive at in Bangkok?

Thanks.

Nothing new. Singapore has used that excuse for not issuing a visa long before this one. There is no rule to back it up.

They are using a rule for exempt entries that went away almost 6 years ago.

My Thai consulate in Switzerland applies same rule, and iirc from another thread, Paris France same.

[carstenp]

I must admit. I got my retirement visa and secure for now, but I'm still going for the pr visa. IMHO if you want to retire and live the rest of you life here, buy condo, allowed to work and so on, maybe get married so why don't learn the laungage apply for 7600. And pay the 192000. It's easy. No more visa runs, no more complain about immigration rules , you can have you name on anything, you are almost like a thai.

Why not use maybe 2 years of you life to be able to read, write and understand thai. This crackdown on the visa will never ever be a problem for you.

[ubonjoe]

Does anyone know for sure if one would qualify for a NON-O in Savanakhet based on having a Thai child, but without custody papers? This still seems a grey area?

It is not possible unless your are the legal father of you child by way of marriage or legitimization. The has been discussed in other topics. And is off topic in this one.

[Essex Exile]

Look, if you have been here more than 180 days doing back to back border runs of any kind then you are going to have difficulties either getting another visa or getting back into the country even if you manage to get a visa - that is basically simple

If you are married - have children - are retired and over 50 - and meet the requirements get a proper visa then extension of stay

If you cannot do the above or don't meet the requirements including finances - then you are shafted

is that plain enough

More importantly, why don't you use your 'full stop' button?

[DrTuner]

It may be worth remembering that those on a NON-O based on marriage can, I believe, extend your stay at any immigration by 60 das as long as you take the wife with you? This would mean only having to leave the country every 150 days.

Worth posting this one again: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf . It's 2.24, you don't even need a visa to get that one.

I am a bit worried about this police order being revamped. When I came here in 2007, the marriage extension did not have the 400k baht in bank option. If they fiddle with it again, I still have the Thai kid option, should they change that too .. screwed.

I wish immigration would be more transparent about the changes they are contemplating and actually allow discussion, instead of just blurting them out suddenly.

The 400k baht in Thai bank for extensions based upon marriage was in the police order in 2007. In fact at that time if could be in a joint account and the 40k income could also be your wife's or a combination of yours and hers.

Police order 777/2551 eliminated the wife's income option and joint accounts.

There has been no indication from immigration that will be any changes made to the extension rules.

I've been googling and can't find it, but I distinctly remember there was only the 40k/month income option at the time, I even contemplated setting up a company just to fulfill that. Anyway by the time my multi-entry non-o got old, the 400k rule was in place and I've been on those extensions ever since.

The problem with immigration is, there never is any indication of changes. They just drop from the clear sky.

[MJCM]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

@emilnnz - v sorry to hear about this.

This is also my concern. Having spent over a year in Thailand on back to back Visas, will I now be turned down by ALL other Consulates for a visa application in other countries? Is it now advisable to leave the country every 30 days for visa exemption? (If you're from UK, US, AUS etc).

?????? You HAVE to leave every 30 days fro visa exemption.

I guess you don't know what a Visa Exemption is.

That is the "stamp" what you get when arriving at a Thai Border without a Visa, max. validity is 30 days.

[DrTuner]

Suddenly ? Other than the overstay punishments announced a couple of days back. the rest of it was foreshadowed back in May. I posted a link to the Thaivisa thread from late May containing details of the August 12 crackdown earlier in this thread. I dont believe it was ever up for discussion - the article claims Immigration wanted to forewarn visa run companies and others involved in the travel industry and their warning was blunt - 'Some companies will not like these changes, but they need to ask themselves if they really love Thailand'. Like it, or lump it

Suddenly in the case of the rules for extending stay, which is what the immigration now wants people to do, means less than one year.

[Essex Exile]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

@emilnnz - v sorry to hear about this.

This is also my concern. Having spent over a year in Thailand on back to back Visas, will I now be turned down by ALL other Consulates for a visa application in other countries? Is it now advisable to leave the country every 30 days for visa exemption? (If you're from UK, US, AUS etc).

?????? You HAVE to leave every 30 days fro visa exemption.

I guess you don't know what a Visa Exemption is.

That is the "stamp" what you get when arriving at a Thai Border without a Visa, max. validity is 30 days.

You have read it all wrong. Try again. I am perfectly aware of what a exemption visa is.

[MJCM]

@ Essex

You are correct

Ps: I was a bit confused with the "??????" in front of your answer.

[RTH10260]

If I understand correct and some poster was check very hard on Non o visa so Iam worried. I have a couple of Turist visas

and the last 3 years on Ed visa and plan to get retirement visa soon but as I read they can if they feel like it say get lost at the boarder based on my history?

Three years ED visa, you have been studying Thai for so long? You should by now be able to explain your situation in fluent Thai with the immigration officer.

[scandinavi]

I just went to Singapore to apply tourist visa 60 days, and they denied. They won't accept if you have been in Thailand more than 90 days in 6 months, they said. So i couldn't even apply.

As return to Bangkok, they said I need a tourist visa and they turned me home. I had return ticket to home in 3 weeks, but it wasn't their concern at all....

Thailand has changed a lot.

After denied entry did they let you freely go and buy flight ticket to freely selected destination outside of Thailand? Would it be possible to buy ticket online in that situation?

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

There will be someone collecting you and the person will be from the airline you flew in with, no many options as they said they need to get authorization and have paperwork to be done. They will also try to get you direct flight (at least in my case) and ask you to pay by either cash or C.C.

So... you cannot book flight online and won't have too many choices.

Anyway they said you need a tourist visa. So you may be allowed entry with tourist visa. In any case it would be more nice to get at least 7 days which they sometimes give on the land border.

Thanks for the info.

[stgrhe]

I am about to get into the car and drive to Korat immigration for my third year of non imm 'o' visa. i am married to a Thai and I have sufficient funds...

Do you think I will have a problem? Because it seems the immigration officials are not trained properly and seem to be labouring under the impression that they have to make it super hard for all farang to stay here now.

I suppose I will find out in the next hours.... Seems as though reading through these comments it is looking like each immigration officer is a law unto himself.

Wish me luck.

If your parers are in order you should have no problem since you will not be "applying for a new visa" but a "temporary extension of stay based on marrige".

[MrWorldwide]

and you wonder why tourist numbers are down 11%

I'm surprised if that's the only impact of a military coup and a visa crackdown. We can have the debate again about what is and what isnt a 'genuine' tourist, but I'm fairly confident that the people I see taking photos of one another in front of the kitsch in Central Festival arent living here 6-12 months of the year, nor are the Chinese and Korean tour groups as they leave their hotels for the boat ride across to our Koh Lan. It gets easier and easier to separate the people who live here from those who really are just visiting.

On balance, if they are serious about their stated aim of rooting out illegal workers, low season is the time to do it.