Israel prepares for ground military operation, 98 dead in Gaza Strip airstrikes

[rascalman]

 war is never good, what besides death will it bring.  I think God will soon have enough of all of this, everything!

[up-country_sinclair]

Today former US President Bill Clinton warned Israel on isolating itself from world opinion and the U.S. State Department accused Israel of failing to do all it can to prevent civilian deaths in Gaza.

 

It's about time. 

[rascalman]

War is evil and begets only death. when will this end, who is right or wrong! stop the killing now!

[Jingthing]

War is evil and begets only death. when will this end, who is right or wrong! stop the killing now!

Are you asking when the current Israeli ground campaign in Gaza will end? I think I read two weeks. That's probably optimistic. Now that Israel is in there, I'm sure they will follow through on the goal of tunnel destruction. 

[Johpa]

Today former US President Bill Clinton warned Israel on isolating itself from world opinion and the U.S. State Department accused Israel of failing to do all it can to prevent civilian deaths in Gaza.

 

It's about time. 

 

The other day Clinton, and I am not a bif fan of the Clintons, noted that Hamas was firing rockets into Israel for the strategic purpose of forcing Israel to respond, knowing that the response would result in civilian casualties and that that would result in increased global public opinion sympathy for Gaza.  Hamas is willing to sacrifice civilians to achieve that strategic goal.  Clinton was clearly as exasperated with Hamas as he is with the Israelis.  This was immediately after Hamas rejected the first ceasefire arranged by Egyptians and similar frustrations were heard in the voices of the Palestinean Authority representative, the Egyptian ambassador, and Tony Blair.

[DPIZZA]

 

 

Israel is now dropping bombs on charitable organizations for the disabled. 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/israel-continues-gaza-bombardment-pushing-death-toll-past-120

 

Just when you think it couldn't get any more despicable,

 

When Hamas starts to target nuclear reactors and international airports? is that despicable in your books or business as usual?

 

 

Why are you posting about imagined fantasies?

 

I posted a link to an atrocity committed by Israel within the last 24 hours.  And yet you've chosen not to comment on it.  Not even to express sympathy for the killed or injured.
 

 

 

Mr. Sinclair,

 

Do you really think it is possible to bomb one of the densest populated places on earth, and 100% avoid collateral damage?

Add to that the fact that Hamas is interested and responsible for those civilian deaths, by not choosing to cease fire, and by firing in the first place among civilian centers as such, and you can start to understand why this happens:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giJlG3KXq8c

 

On the other hand, I still not 100% sure of the validity of those reports.

It might be another great propaganda that the Guardian publishes. It reminds me the pictures from the second Lebanon war, when they photoshoped smokes rising above the cities.

I dont blame the Guardian in lying, but i do blame them for "forgetting" to check their resources carefully.

same story with Al Durah (the liable about Israel killing a boy in his father's hands):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL8ANySuSuk

 

or in so called Quana massacre in Lebanon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4l7pjjTgYc

 

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts and replies have been deleted.   I have no idea why some members insist on quoting post that will likely get deleted.   Emotive phrases like 'concentration camp' will get your post, and your reply deleted.  

 

This thread is about an Israeli ground invasion.     

[Scott]

Where on earth does Hamas store all these rockets?   They should eventually run out I would think.  

[Pakboong]

 

 

Hamas can stop with the rockets now. They got their perfect propaganda pictures. Job done. If anyone really thinks it is Israeli policy to deliberately murder young boys at the beach, I've got a bridge to sell you. 

 

They may actually realize that if they do stop the rockets, all they can get out of it is what their West Bank brothers have and that ain't much incentive.
 

 

Who is they? Hamas leadership or the people of Gaza? Because I don't believe the majority of the people of Gaza actually support these tactics. I do believe the majority of the people of Gaza are extremely anti-Israel, but I don't believe the majority support the insane Hamas tactics that result in so much suffering for their own people. Is there a different path that might help improve things for the people there? Probably. Obviously, this isn't it. 

 

We do not actually know who they is. We don't disagree other than the point that many feel if Hamas or whomever stop the attacks, things for Gaza will miraculously change.

 

According to Ha’aretz correspondent Amira Hass, the IDF has been conducting mass arrests in the West Bank, between 10 and 30 every day. Twenty-four of the arrested are members of the Palestinian parliament from Hamas’ Change and Reform party. The number of those arrested since the kidnapping and murder of the Israeli teens has already exceeded 1,000.

 

[simple1]

Sad that anyone that criticizes Israels policies towards Palestinians or other ME countries is called an anti-semite. I will leave it at that, as I quite like posting on TV.

 

 

"All critics of Jews should not be tagged as anti-Semites. We are not a nation of Christs, Spinozas, and Einsteins; that the Nazis are brutes does not make us angels ... Criticism is not the same as hatred, and critics are not our enemies. The greatest friends of a people are not those who praise but those who honestly find fault. A people without criticism is either a dictatorship or a community so deeply embedded in smug self-satisfaction as to be on the road to decadence."

-- William Zuckerman, Jewish author (written before World War II),

[Jingthing]

 

Sad that anyone that criticizes Israels policies towards Palestinians or other ME countries is called an anti-semite. I will leave it at that, as I quite like posting on TV.

 

 

"All critics of Jews should not be tagged as anti-Semites. We are not a nation of Christs, Spinozas, and Einsteins; that the Nazis are brutes does not make us angels ... Criticism is not the same as hatred, and critics are not our enemies. The greatest friends of a people are not those who praise but those who honestly find fault. A people without criticism is either a dictatorship or a community so deeply embedded in smug self-satisfaction as to be on the road to decadence."

-- William Zuckerman, Jewish author (written before World War II),

 

It's a good quote and not particularly controversial really if you look at it.

Of course not all criticism directed at Jewish people, Zionism and/or Israeli government policy, etc. is antisemitic in nature.

Some is though.

 

Regarding William Zukerman (note the correct spelling) here is a little historical context. A Jewish writer indeed, actually a JOURNALIST, but also a Socialist, Atheist, and dedicated ANTI-ZIONIST. Zionism wasn't always as popular as it has become among global Jews. It was a political movement that started small and grew and now in the purest sense of supporting the existence of Israel as a state home for the Jewish people, enjoys overwhelming support of modern global Jewry.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Where on earth does Hamas store all these rockets?   They should eventually run out I would think.  

I just heard the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. address this somewhat.

If I heard it right, they started with about 12,000, fired over 1000, 3000 or so destroyed, still leaving the majority of the original stock there plus they still have the capability to produce them.

So, no, they aren't nearly at the point of running out according to that source.

Yes I can understand questioning this source, assuming I even heard it right, but on the other hand what other source would there be, it's not as if Hamas is going to announce their numbers.

As far as storage, well I do know it is documented that some are indeed stored in heavily populated civilian areas, but I have no idea of what percentage of the total. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

 

Where on earth does Hamas store all these rockets?   They should eventually run out I would think.  

I just heard the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. address this somewhat.

If I heard it right, they started with about 12,000, fired over 1000, 3000 or so destroyed, still leaving the majority of the original stock there plus they still have the capability to produce them.

So, no, they aren't nearly at the point of running out according to that source.

Yes I can understand questioning this source, assuming I even heard it right, but on the other hand what other source would there be, it's not as if Hamas is going to announce their numbers.

As far as storage, well I do know it is documented that some are indeed stored in heavily populated civilian areas, but I have no idea of what percentage of the total. 

 

 

Well if you know and its well documented please do tell us your sources. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by dexterm

[johna]

58 Palestinians - including 15 under 18s - and one Israeli were killed in the first night of fighting.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-prepare-to-widen-invasion-benjamin-netanyahu-tells-military-9615957.html 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-prepare-to-widen-invasion-benjamin-netanyahu-tells-military-9615957.html

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by johna

[dexterm]

58 Palestinians - including 15 under 18s - and one Israeli were killed in the first night of fighting.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-prepare-to-widen-invasion-benjamin-netanyahu-tells-military-9615957.html 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-prepare-to-widen-invasion-benjamin-netanyahu-tells-military-9615957.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is always the danger that if Netanyahu widens the ground invasion, Hamas may do so too.

[FritsSikkink]

 

 

Hence the reason for ground invasion. All the terror groups including Hamas and Hezbolah use civilians as human shields to paint Israel in a bad light and use the death if civilians for PR propaganda.

They do not even mourn the killed but rather use their death to justify their actions.

Now funny enough for such patriots and marters like Hamas it's always strange that they are hiding behind the civilians and minimal number of Hamas fighters gets killed.

One would think such brave men would be in front line, instead of hiding behind women and kids

 

Here the reason for invasion:

 

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/16/371556/israel-must-kill-all-palestinian-mothers/

 

This is a member of the Israeli government !!!

Edited July 19, 2014 by FritsSikkink

[Jingthing]

She represents a fascist minority. She does not represent most Israelis. Israel is a DEMOCRACY and a diversity of views, even extremely offensive ones like that, are part of the picture.

 

Press T.V. is a propaganda organ from Iran. 

 

A more objective explanation of the ground operation in Gaza:

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5913533/hamas-gaza-israel-invasion

 

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Please get back on topic.  

 

This discussion is simply baiting other posters into off-topic discussions.  

[up-country_sinclair]

1 In 5 Of Gaza Dead Are Children

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/gaza-dead-children_n_5600903.html

 

 

 

 

http://gawker.com/israel-begins-ground-invasion-in-gaza-dozens-of-casual-1606792152

Edited July 19, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[FritsSikkink]

Here the opinion of former US president Jimmy Carter:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152136038346104

 

[Jingthing]

Jimmy Carter is a strong, credible, and reasoned critic of Israeli government policies. But he also supports the right of Israel to exist. That's the kind of criticism, though harsh, that is welcome and constructive. As mentioned in the interview, that's the kind of debate that has been happening WITHIN ISRAEL for many years now, though of course the more conservative wing of Israeli politics has retained more power.

 

While the word apartheid when applied to Israel can sometimes be seen as inflammatory, Carter does a good job of explaining the limited context of his using that word, and how it is different than the meaning of apartheid in the way most people think about it, South Africa. South Africa was South Africa. Israel and Palestine are Israel and Palestine. Not directly equivalent. 

 

Personally I wouldn't use the word apartheid only for the reason that so many people use it to suggest a simplistic equivalency between Israel and South Africa which does not reflect the truth. 

 

Compare Carters's strong but reasoned criticism to Hamas in Gaza which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and does not accept it's right to exist.

 

The current military action by Israel is directed at ... you guessed it ... HAMAS. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[FritsSikkink]

Jimmy Carter is a strong, credible, and reasoned critic of Israeli government policies. But he also supports the right of Israel to exist. That's the kind of criticism, though harsh, that is welcome and constructive. As mentioned in the interview, that's the kind of debate that has been happening WITHIN ISRAEL for many years now, though of course the more conservative wing of Israeli politics has retained more power.

 

With the word apartheid when applied to Israel can sometimes be seen as inflammatory, Carter does a good job of explaining the limited context of his using that word, and how it is different than the meaning of apartheid in the way most people think about it, South Africa. 

 

As opposed to Hamas in Gaza which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and does not accept it's right to exist.

 

The current military action by Israel is directed at ... you guessed it ... HAMAS. 

The only problem is there are getting more children killed than terrorists. An other thing to think about is that with the tactics Israel is using now they are pushing people to the more radical side. How would you react when your little kids are blown to pieces ? Yes, Israel has a right to defend itself. But how many casualty's are there in Israel and with witch force and devastation are they reacting? Let them stop nicking land and resources and oppressing people and arrest the people who attack them and bring them in front of a judge.

[Jingthing]

Israel doesn't want Gaza. Israel gave it up actually. This topic is about Gaza. I totally agree that the civilian casualties are horrible but need to be looked at in context. Hamas invited this situation with rocket fire and storing rockets in civilian areas. Israel in going after Hamas has made efforts to avoid civilian casualties, more than a lot of armies would. If they could do more, who wouldn't support that ? I don't think there is a simple answer out of this. There is a feeling now that the conflict is so ingrained now on BOTH SIDES that time may have run out for any kind of peaceful solution ... ever. Only history will tell. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[FritsSikkink]

There is for billions gas to be found in the sea where Gaza is.

[Jingthing]

There is for billions gas to be found in the sea where Gaza is.

Conspiracy theory time!

[FritsSikkink]

 

There is for billions gas to be found in the sea where Gaza is.

Conspiracy theory time!

 

The official excuse to enter Gaza is to find the tunnels and block them. Why don't they look for the tunnels in their own country and block them there?

Edited July 19, 2014 by FritsSikkink

[Jingthing]

 

 

There is for billions gas to be found in the sea where Gaza is.

Conspiracy theory time!

 

The official excuse to enter Gaza is to find the tunnels and block them. Why don't they look for the tunnels in their own country and block them there?

 

That's easy. Because most of the tunnels don't go into Israel.

Israel wants to stop the rockets and the materials used to build them.

That's linked to the tunnels.

This is on Hamas. They provoked Israel. They knew Israel would react and they knew Israel would dominate militarily.

Interestingly Israel probably doesn't want to TOTALLY break Hamas.

That's because Hamas is the government of Gaza ... and if Israel breaks it, then they probably will have to occupy Gaza ... which Israel needs like a hole in the head. 

 

Next ... 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

 

 

 

There is for billions gas to be found in the sea where Gaza is.

Conspiracy theory time!

 

The official excuse to enter Gaza is to find the tunnels and block them. Why don't they look for the tunnels in their own country and block them there?

 

That's easy. Because most of the tunnels don't go into Israel.

Israel wants to stop the rockets and the materials used to build them.

That's linked to the tunnels.

This is on Hamas. They provoked Israel. They knew Israel would react and they knew Israel would dominate militarily.

Interestingly Israel probably doesn't want to TOTALLY break Hamas.

That's because Hamas is the government of Gaza ... and if Israel breaks it, then they probably will have to occupy Gaza ... which Israel needs like a hole in the head. 

 

Next ... 

 

The truth is Israel provoked Hamas with their phony shenanigans after the 3 teenagers were kidnapped.

 

Go for it Israel..occupy Gaza, annex it even if you are truly concerned about security ...make it part of Israel..block these tunnels once and for all. Then the occupied can shame Israel  before the world into how it treats its occupied people as it does in the West Bank already.

[dexterm]

Israel doesn't want Gaza. Israel gave it up actually. This topic is about Gaza. I totally agree that the civilian casualties are horrible but need to be looked at in context. Hamas invited this situation with rocket fire and storing rockets in civilian areas. Israel in going after Hamas has made efforts to avoid civilian casualties, more than a lot of armies would. If they could do more, who wouldn't support that ? I don't think there is a simple answer out of this. There is a feeling now that the conflict is so ingrained now on BOTH SIDES that time may have run out for any kind of peaceful solution ... ever. Only history will tell. 

 

>> I totally agree that the civilian casualties are horrible but need to be looked at in context. 

 

..whoosh... a neat under the  carpet sweep ..yes, it's horrible isn't it that children playing on a beach are ripped apart by mistaken Israeli shrapnel..but lets look at it in context.

 

Tell that to the parents!

 

Yes history will indeed tell

Edited July 19, 2014 by dexterm

[up-country_sinclair]

Israel continues to slaughter innocent women and children.

 

 

BODY COUNT

18 hours ago

Injured Overwhelm Gaza Hospital

 

A report from a hospital in South Gaza paints a grim picture of the human toll of Israel’s ground offensive launched a day ago. In the city of Khan Yunis, Nasser hospital has already sent 11 people to the morgue, while many others have suffered horrific injuries. A 25-year-old woman had shrapnel rip through most of her body, embedding itself in her brain and gouging out her left eye. In the next bed over, an 18-year-old boy is now paralyzed on his right side after shrapnel entered his brain. His 23-year-old relative has had a leg amputated. Four of their other relatives have been killed, including a four- and six-year-old. Another patient had shrapnel tear into his stomach, kidneys, and intestines. "They are innocents, people sitting next to their homes, people sitting with their relatives," a doctor at the hospital said. "Where should these people go?"

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2014/07/18/israel-ground-offensive-injures-dozens.html