Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Arkady]

I think if all the people waiting for the PR pool in some money and take the interior ministry to court PRs will be issued immediately.

Ever hear of peeing into the wind ?

Maybe an attempted class action of this type would create some publicity that would be helpful if embassies and chambers of commerce also got behind it. However, class actions are not permitted in Thailand and it is not immediately obvious what the legal basis for such an attempt would be anyway even on an individual basis. LIke most processes to do with foreigners in Thailand the permanent residence process is not subject to any judicial review. The Immigration Act ultimately leaves it to the discretion of the minister. That appears to leave only two possible avenues: a civil suit for damages and a suit in the administrative court. The former seems laughable since all the applicants have been allowed to stay in Thailand and do their businesses and even permitted easy extensions of stay every six months which is almost equivalent to permanent residence from a visa perspective and significantly cheaper too. Filing cases with the Administrative Court seems a non starter because there are no official decisions for the court to review. Since the Administrative Court was established by the 1997 constitution cases have been filed against the Interior Minister by people whose PR applications were rejected, most famously when Purachai was the minister. However, I am not aware of any of these cases ever being successful.

As the year grinds on and there has been no follow up on the encouraging noises about processing the backlog made earlier in the year, it will be interesting to see whether Immigration will open again for applications this December. This requires the Minister to propose a cabinet resolution setting the annual quota for permanent residence applications (always set at the maximum allowed by law of 100 per nationality and 50 stateless persons) which has to be published in the Royal Gazette. With a cabinet reshuffle looming and the Minister slated for the chop the idea of adding to the pile of unprocessed applications might not be considered a political priority.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Arkady

[NewlyMintedThai]

I think if all the people waiting for the PR pool in some money and take the interior ministry to court PRs will be issued immediately.

Ever hear of peeing into the wind ?

Maybe an attempted class action of this type would create some publicity that would be helpful is embassies and chambers of commerce also got behind it. However, class actions are not permitted in Thailand and it is not immediately obvious what the legal basis for such an attempt would be anyway. LIke most processes to do with foreigners in Thailand the permanent residence process is not subject to any judicial review. The Immigration Act ultimately leaves it to the discretion of the minister. That appears to leave only two possible avenues: a civil suit for damages and a suit in the administrative court. The former seems laughable since all the applicants have been allowed to stay in Thailand and do their businesses and even permitted easy extensions of stay every six months which is almost equivalent to permanent residence from a visa perspective and significantly cheaper too. Filing cases with the Administrative Court seems a non starter because there are no official decisions for the court to review. Since the Administrative Court was established by the 1997 constitution cases have been filed against the Interior Minister by people whose PR applications were rejected, most famously when Purachai was the minister. However, I am not aware of any of these cases ever being successful.

I've heard that class actions suits are now permitted, but largely untried so far. I think they are called "khadee ruam". As always, I could be mistaken.

[skippybangkok]

I think if all the people waiting for the PR pool in some money and take the interior ministry to court PRs will be issued immediately.

Ever hear of peeing into the wind ?

LOL...

Edited August 19, 2012 by skippybangkok

[Arkady]

I think if all the people waiting for the PR pool in some money and take the interior ministry to court PRs will be issued immediately.

Ever hear of peeing into the wind ?

Maybe an attempted class action of this type would create some publicity that would be helpful is embassies and chambers of commerce also got behind it. However, class actions are not permitted in Thailand and it is not immediately obvious what the legal basis for such an attempt would be anyway. LIke most processes to do with foreigners in Thailand the permanent residence process is not subject to any judicial review. The Immigration Act ultimately leaves it to the discretion of the minister. That appears to leave only two possible avenues: a civil suit for damages and a suit in the administrative court. The former seems laughable since all the applicants have been allowed to stay in Thailand and do their businesses and even permitted easy extensions of stay every six months which is almost equivalent to permanent residence from a visa perspective and significantly cheaper too. Filing cases with the Administrative Court seems a non starter because there are no official decisions for the court to review. Since the Administrative Court was established by the 1997 constitution cases have been filed against the Interior Minister by people whose PR applications were rejected, most famously when Purachai was the minister. However, I am not aware of any of these cases ever being successful.

I've heard that class actions suits are now permitted, but largely untried so far. I think they are called "khadee ruam". As always, I could be mistaken.

Perhaps you're right. Things may have changed on that front.

[skyaslimit]

Hi guys,

just been to immigration for my 6 months extension, same results , its all aut there to Interior ministry.

[Arkady]

Hi guys,

just been to immigration for my 6 months extension, same results , its all aut there to Interior ministry.

" its all aut there to Interior ministry". Fortunately we guess what you mean but without the context it would be difficult.

[CMexpat]

Is anybody familiar with the procedure to renew the Permanent Residence book (blue), mine is full with re-entry stamps?

[NewlyMintedThai]

Is anybody familiar with the procedure to renew the Permanent Residence book (blue), mine is full with re-entry stamps?

Just take it to immigration, and they'll replace it with a new white one.

[lopburi3]

One post removed for violation of:

29) Not to lobby members.

[CMexpat]

Is anybody familiar with the procedure to renew the Permanent Residence book (blue), mine is full with re-entry stamps?

Just take it to immigration, and they'll replace it with a new white one.

Thanks for that, will do so. I assume that you get to keep the old (blue) one..

[NewlyMintedThai]

No, I believe they take it away.

[Arkady]

Is anybody familiar with the procedure to renew the Permanent Residence book (blue), mine is full with re-entry stamps?

Just take it to immigration, and they'll replace it with a new white one.

Thanks for that, will do so. I assume that you get to keep the old (blue) one..

Go to Immigration with your passport, residence book, alien book, tabien baan, copy of tabien baan and some photographs (I think 4x5 cm). It takes about 3 working days. Once you have got that you have to apply for your non-quota visa and residence book endorsement separately, assuming these are expired or close to expiry. All the forms are online and you can fill them out and print them before you go. For some reason they didn't use the form I had printed out to apply for a new book last month and the officer filled in one herself for me (maybe there were too many errors in mine). But the other officers did use the forms I had completed for the new visa and endorsement which saved some time. They are unable to process the new visa and endorsement at the same time as issuing the new book and you have to wait again for these. Fee is B1,900 for a new book and, as usual, B5,700 for the endorsement and a multi-entry visa.

No, you don't get to keep the old blue book or the old white books. Take copies first, if you want them as a souvenir.

[Dork]

Is anybody familiar with the procedure to renew the Permanent Residence book (blue), mine is full with re-entry stamps?

Just take it to immigration, and they'll replace it with a new white one.

Thanks for that, will do so. I assume that you get to keep the old (blue) one..

Go to Immigration with your passport, residence book, alien book, tabien baan, copy of tabien baan and some photographs (I think 4x5 cm). It takes about 3 working days. Once you have got that you have to apply for your non-quota visa and residence book endorsement separately, assuming these are expired or close to expiry. All the forms are online and you can fill them out and print them before you go. For some reason they didn't use the form I had printed out to apply for a new book last month and the officer filled in one herself for me (maybe there were too many errors in mine). But the other officers did use the forms I had completed for the new visa and endorsement which saved some time. They are unable to process the new visa and endorsement at the same time as issuing the new book and you have to wait again for these. Fee is B1,900 for a new book and, as usual, B5,700 for the endorsement and a multi-entry visa.

No, you don't get to keep the old blue book or the old white books. Take copies first, if you want them as a souvenir.

Seems a little bit convoluted. Is it a requirement to be there in person? Or can it be done via an agent/messenger?

[Dork]

There is a rumour that a bunch of PR's were signed off last week. Heard it from 2 sources so might be true. The first one said about it was 200 approved, the second said more than 100.

[tamvine]

There is a rumour that a bunch of PR's were signed off last week. Heard it from 2 sources so might be true. The first one said about it was 200 approved, the second said more than 100.

called Immegration and per them nothing received at their end. It will be fantastic if this is true.

[Spinning Dwarf]

A friend who has been waiting for years in the backlog said he got a letter last week informing him that his application has been approved by the MoI.

There is a rumour that a bunch of PR's were signed off last week. Heard it from 2 sources so might be true. The first one said about it was 200 approved, the second said more than 100.

[tamvine]

A friend who has been waiting for years in the backlog said he got a letter last week informing him that his application has been approved by the MoI.

Can you ask him what year he has been waiting from? Also where did he get letter from? From Immegration or from MOI?

[sas_cars]

Seems to be a fantastic update if true. 200+100 seems to be just the backlog for 1 year I guess. or maybe 2 years.

[Dork]

Seems to be a fantastic update if true. 200+100 seems to be just the backlog for 1 year I guess. or maybe 2 years.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. I meant one source of the rumour mentioned a figure of 200. The other said "over 100" so not 200+100.

I'm in the 2006 lot and I haven't heard anything directly apart from these rumours. Certainly no letter from Immigration.

Once when I was at the PR section at CW, one of the officers told me that there are still some applications pending from 2005! I think that was about a year ago and at the same time he said that the total pending applications from all years was just under 1000.

[scorecard]

My admin. manager called and asked this question (can agent, messenger, do it etc.,) several times over quite a few years, and the answer was always 'no', you must come in person.

Perhaps the replacement book now has a different process, I've had to get a replacement book 4 times because I travelled in and out every week for many years. This was mostly at the old Suan Phlu office and once at the new Chang Wattana centre, but that was maybe 3 to 4 years back, It was always completed on the spot, normally taking 1 hour or less, and painless.

As said, maybe the process has changed.

Keeping copies of old PR books, every page is wise, you never know how they may be helpful for another purpose.

Another TV member always sends me PMs asking about 'new approval', meaning is it difficult to get the replacement book approved?

The said member has locked his thinking into the concept of the so called 'retirement visa' and the reality that each year is to some extent a new application and there is no guarateee that you will get a renewal (of the 'retirement visa) just because you had it last year or for several years.

To be clear, PR is for life and when you need to get a replacement book it's NOT a new application for PR!

Once achieved there are only two ways you can lose Thai PR:

1. Get a criminal record in Thailand or anywhere and by the rules PR is revoked.

2. You can be outside of Thailand for 364 days in one block period and your safe. Outside for 365 days or more and it's gone, and there is no appeal process.

If any members have any updates on the last point, would you please share.

[Mario2008]

The last point is still in the rules, but you are supposedly have it easier to apply for PR again after losing it for reason of being out of the country for more then a year.

[tamvine]

Seems to be a fantastic update if true. 200+100 seems to be just the backlog for 1 year I guess. or maybe 2 years.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. I meant one source of the rumour mentioned a figure of 200. The other said "over 100" so not 200+100.

I'm in the 2006 lot and I haven't heard anything directly apart from these rumours. Certainly no letter from Immigration.

Once when I was at the PR section at CW, one of the officers told me that there are still some applications pending from 2005! I think that was about a year ago and at the same time he said that the total pending applications from all years was just under 1000.

PR's have been issued for year 2006, next in line are 2007. Whomsoever is waiting for the good news must make sure that address was updated in Immegration system in case there was a change in it. Also as everyone would have done in last Feb./Mar. to reconfirm that you still intend to take PR. Hopefully more good news is on the way for more people waiting and there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel.

[Dork]

Seems to be a fantastic update if true. 200+100 seems to be just the backlog for 1 year I guess. or maybe 2 years.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. I meant one source of the rumour mentioned a figure of 200. The other said "over 100" so not 200+100.

I'm in the 2006 lot and I haven't heard anything directly apart from these rumours. Certainly no letter from Immigration.

Once when I was at the PR section at CW, one of the officers told me that there are still some applications pending from 2005! I think that was about a year ago and at the same time he said that the total pending applications from all years was just under 1000.

PR's have been issued for year 2006, next in line are 2007. Whomsoever is waiting for the good news must make sure that address was updated in Immegration system in case there was a change in it. Also as everyone would have done in last Feb./Mar. to reconfirm that you still intend to take PR. Hopefully more good news is on the way for more people waiting and there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel.

That sounds more concrete than the information I got earlier this week from an immigration lawyer. Do you mean that all pending applications from the year 2006 have been approved?

[tamvine]

Seems to be a fantastic update if true. 200+100 seems to be just the backlog for 1 year I guess. or maybe 2 years.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. I meant one source of the rumour mentioned a figure of 200. The other said "over 100" so not 200+100.

I'm in the 2006 lot and I haven't heard anything directly apart from these rumours. Certainly no letter from Immigration.

Once when I was at the PR section at CW, one of the officers told me that there are still some applications pending from 2005! I think that was about a year ago and at the same time he said that the total pending applications from all years was just under 1000.

PR's have been issued for year 2006, next in line are 2007. Whomsoever is waiting for the good news must make sure that address was updated in Immegration system in case there was a change in it. Also as everyone would have done in last Feb./Mar. to reconfirm that you still intend to take PR. Hopefully more good news is on the way for more people waiting and there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel.

That sounds more concrete than the information I got earlier this week from an immigration lawyer. Do you mean that all pending applications from the year 2006 have been approved?

yes that is the information from my source. No one knows (except CW and IM) exactly how many applications were there in first place, but all the people who reconfirmed to CW that they still are interested in PR are expected to be approved. However we all can keep checking from our various sources so nothing gets missed.

[Dork]

yes that is the information from my source. No one knows (except CW and IM) exactly how many applications were there in first place, but all the people who reconfirmed to CW that they still are interested in PR are expected to be approved. However we all can keep checking from our various sources so nothing gets missed.

Thanks. Hopefully I'll know more early next week & will post then. Cheers.

[skyaslimit]

Seems to be a fantastic update if true. 200+100 seems to be just the backlog for 1 year I guess. or maybe 2 years.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. I meant one source of the rumour mentioned a figure of 200. The other said "over 100" so not 200+100. I'm in the 2006 lot and I haven't heard anything directly apart from these rumours. Certainly no letter from Immigration. Once when I was at the PR section at CW, one of the officers told me that there are still some applications pending from 2005! I think that was about a year ago and at the same time he said that the total pending applications from all years was just under 1000.

PR's have been issued for year 2006, next in line are 2007. Whomsoever is waiting for the good news must make sure that address was updated in Immegration system in case there was a change in it. Also as everyone would have done in last Feb./Mar. to reconfirm that you still intend to take PR. Hopefully more good news is on the way for more people waiting and there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel.

PR,s for year 2006 are been issued? where that rumor comes from ? I am from year 2006 and some of my freinds are also applied in same year and none of us have recieved any thing yet. we were all there to submit our wish list to immigration when they send us that letter of confirmation that we are still interested to get PRs.

[bob4you]

My good friend got his last month (I saw the red book) he said he was told his was the first one they issued in almost 7 years.

[tamvine]

My good friend got his last month (I saw the red book) he said he was told his was the first one they issued in almost 7 years.

It will be very helpful if you may ask him as to which year he applied for PR. Was it 2005 or 2006 or any other?

Edited September 14, 2012 by tamvine

[NewlyMintedThai]

For the sake of clarity, the red books are issued by the district police station where the applicant lives. So, the police in that particular district hadn't issued one in seven years. It does not mean that no PR's had been granted nationally in seven years.

Carry on.

[samran]

For the sake of clarity, the red books are issued by the district police station where the applicant lives. So, the police in that particular district hadn't issued one in seven years. It does not mean that no PR's had been granted nationally in seven years.

Carry on.

As they say, middle stump.