Eight dead after Florida shooting

[sgtsabai]

I knew weapons before I ever went in USMC. I learned in the Corps, and I learned a lot more "later". Don't let your imagination run wild.

[ldnguy]

Why do so many Americans agree to people like this being allowed to have guns?

[ClutchClark]

Why do so many Americans agree to people like this being allowed to have guns?

There is a perception amongst American gun-owners that if even one regulation is allowed to pass that it will steamroll into the ATF knocking down everyones' doors to forcibly remove all firearms.

It has been a tremendously successful advertising campaign by the gun manufactures (aka NRA).

[ClutchClark]

The grandfather was convicted of a weapons violation in 2005.

Another report states a felony weapons violation in 2003.

He "accidentally" shot and killed his own son in a hunting incident in 2001.

He served three years for felony marijuana as well.

The felony convictions meant he could not legally own a firearm.

One of the main problems with firearms in the US is there widespread availability.

Basically anyone can get access to a firearm...even 6-year old school children.

[NeverSure]

The focus here is on a nut case who went postal on his family, he could have done it with anything really, the gun for once isn't the issue here, get off your soapboxes.

Oz

Oz you are right ! I own five guns for over 40 years and they have not even killed an animal must less a human. Doctors and hammers kill more people than guns and then there are knifes.

I learned to use fire arms in the military

How many US citizens who own weapons were trained to use them properly by the military? A vanishingly small number I would imagine.

Most. Many grew up with guns, many were in the military and many choose to take a shooting a safety course if they are beginners. Otherwise the gun scares them, too.

My father taught me to shoot when I was about 6 or 7. He is a decorated veteran of D-Day. He and his friends took me hunting every year partly because my license allowed for one more deer or elk and we wanted the free meat. If I screwed up handling my rifle I really heard about it.

I was carrying a full powered big game rifle (30-06) in a rifle scabbard on a horse by the time I was about 9. And I was out all by myself. We did.not.tolerate coyotes, wolves, or cougars anywhere near our place because they killed cattle. I was expected to drop them any time I saw them, and I did. 9 years old.

These days in the US most states don't allow hunting below the age of 14, and then only after a hunter's safety course is passed.

IMHO it's the gang bangers in the nasty areas in some cities who can't shoot for shit, have no training, maybe have a criminal record which precludes them from owning a gun anyway, and who think they are cool who are really dangerous. The good news is that they can't shoot and get outshot by the police or private citizens like me when it becomes necessary. With any luck they are shooting each other. That's usually what goes down. They shoot each other in gang disputes and become part of the national statistics.

[chooka]

Security guards don't carry firearms (Cash in Transit excepted) Australians aren't Naturally Aggressive and thousands of Aussies own firearms, people aren't forbidden from owning a gun. Australia has just implements stricter provisions. Background checks, classes, licences and a legitimate reason for requiring a gun. Protection is not a legitimate reason.

When did Australians stop being naturally aggressive? Did you have a particular year in mind? Or was it a gradual thing? I really don't think Australians have anything to do with this thread but if Chooka is allowed to compare the naturally non aggressive Australians to Americans I think we should be able to dispute it.

If a comparison is made between two countries it is only fair to be allowed to dispute it.

Of course to assign natural tendencies of aggression or non aggression to particular nationalities is nonsense as any professor in any natural science beyond kindergarten will tell you but .........

eth·no·cen·tric adjective \ˌeth-nō-ˈsen-trik\

: having or based on the idea that your own group or culture is better or more important than others

Recent collaborative work has provided validated assessments of the personality profiles of over 50 cultures, and judged by these criteria, perceptions of national character are unfounded stereotypes.

http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/15/4/156.abstract

Where on earth was I comparing Australian aggression to American. If you bothered to read the post I was responding to then you would seen it was an American poster who accused Australian of being Naturally aggressive and I simply said they were not. I didn't initiate the discussion.

Your apology is accepted.

[Kooweerup]

Security guards don't carry firearms (Cash in Transit excepted) Australians aren't Naturally Aggressive and thousands of Aussies own firearms, people aren't forbidden from owning a gun. Australia has just implements stricter provisions. Background checks, classes, licences and a legitimate reason for requiring a gun. Protection is not a legitimate reason.

When did Australians stop being naturally aggressive? Did you have a particular year in mind? Or was it a gradual thing? I really don't think Australians have anything to do with this thread but if Chooka is allowed to compare the naturally non aggressive Australians to Americans I think we should be able to dispute it.

If a comparison is made between two countries it is only fair to be allowed to dispute it.

Of course to assign natural tendencies of aggression or non aggression to particular nationalities is nonsense as any professor in any natural science beyond kindergarten will tell you but .........

eth·no·cen·tricadjective \ˌeth-nō-ˈsen-trik\

: having or based on the idea that your own group or culture is better or more important than others

Recent collaborative work has provided validated assessments of the personality profiles of over 50 cultures, and judged by these criteria, perceptions of national character are unfounded stereotypes.

http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/15/4/156.abstract

New Kelly was Iris and roamed around the British colony of Victoria. He died 20 years before Australia existed. He has been kind of adopted but he never had Australian citizenship.

[thailiketoo]

Security guards don't carry firearms (Cash in Transit excepted) Australians aren't Naturally Aggressive and thousands of Aussies own firearms, people aren't forbidden from owning a gun. Australia has just implements stricter provisions. Background checks, classes, licences and a legitimate reason for requiring a gun. Protection is not a legitimate reason.

When did Australians stop being naturally aggressive? Did you have a particular year in mind? Or was it a gradual thing? I really don't think Australians have anything to do with this thread but if Chooka is allowed to compare the naturally non aggressive Australians to Americans I think we should be able to dispute it.

If a comparison is made between two countries it is only fair to be allowed to dispute it.

Of course to assign natural tendencies of aggression or non aggression to particular nationalities is nonsense as any professor in any natural science beyond kindergarten will tell you but .........

eth·no·cen·tric adjective \ˌeth-nō-ˈsen-trik\

: having or based on the idea that your own group or culture is better or more important than others

Recent collaborative work has provided validated assessments of the personality profiles of over 50 cultures, and judged by these criteria, perceptions of national character are unfounded stereotypes.

http://cdp.sagepub.com/content/15/4/156.abstract

Where on earth was I comparing Australian aggression to American. If you bothered to read the post I was responding to then you would seen it was an American poster who accused Australian of being Naturally aggressive and I simply said they were not. I didn't initiate the discussion.

Your apology is accepted.

You're right I didn't read the previous post about the Aussie bar fights and Australians being naturally aggressive. I don't think Aussies are any more aggressive than anyone else. Sorry I blamed it on you. I was wrong.

[sgtsabai]

"IMHO it's the gang bangers in the nasty areas in some cities who can't shoot for shit, have no training, maybe have a criminal record which precludes them from owning a gun anyway, and who think they are cool who are really dangerous. The good news is that they can't shoot and get outshot by the police or private citizens like me when it becomes necessary. With any luck they are shooting each other. That's usually what goes down. They shoot each other in gang disputes and become part of the national statistics." Reminds me of my work in the mountains of Nuevo Mexico del Norte', northern New Mexico. While "gang bangers" as such didn't really exist up there, there were factions that were always causing trouble, poaching for drugs (big money), robbery, many shootings. Many already had an extensive criminal record and did not leagally own a gun. Amongst us working in law enforcement we thought the best idea was to give them plenty of free ammo and just back off and let them kill each other off. Yea, I know sick humor. Some of these guys did know how to shoot and wouldn't hesitate. They were hard men. One's last words in front of the cops, his wife and children were "I told you, you would never take me alive" and killed himself. For the uninitiated, the pucker factor gets real high when working alone at night, nearest back-up 30-45 min. away and you know you are up against a shooter. Nobody went unarmed up there, nobody. BTW there were a lot of really great folks living up there. Always had to eat a hot tortilla when I would stop by one of my friends's mom's. And it really wasn't the "Wild, wild west", but to some of you, I think it would have been and then some...lol.

[rethaier]

No gun control would prevent this kind of insanity. When children are the victims, he could have used other equally effective methods to end their lives. Very sad. As a US citizen, I'm a strong believer in gun ownership, but also a strong believer in the regulation of firearms so that only defensive firearms are sold, with sales only to people who pass stringent background checks. I think gun education and target practice are worthy investments. I enjoyed going to police firing ranges growing up, as it was similar to archery practice. No reason to bash the US or its people. It's just something that needs to be solved in the political process, like immigration. But, good luck with that, as the media has intensified the voices of extremists on both sides of these issues.

Right so if it must be a firearm, a shotgun that is not easy to conceal is all you need,

[rethaier]

"IMHO it's the gang bangers in the nasty areas in some cities who can't shoot for shit, have no training, maybe have a criminal record which precludes them from owning a gun anyway, and who think they are cool who are really dangerous. The good news is that they can't shoot and get outshot by the police or private citizens like me when it becomes necessary. With any luck they are shooting each other. That's usually what goes down. They shoot each other in gang disputes and become part of the national statistics." Reminds me of my work in the mountains of Nuevo Mexico del Norte', northern New Mexico. While "gang bangers" as such didn't really exist up there, there were factions that were always causing trouble, poaching for drugs (big money), robbery, many shootings. Many already had an extensive criminal record and did not leagally own a gun. Amongst us working in law enforcement we thought the best idea was to give them plenty of free ammo and just back off and let them kill each other off. Yea, I know sick humor. Some of these guys did know how to shoot and wouldn't hesitate. They were hard men. One's last words in front of the cops, his wife and children were "I told you, you would never take me alive" and killed himself. For the uninitiated, the pucker factor gets real high when working alone at night, nearest back-up 30-45 min. away and you know you are up against a shooter. Nobody went unarmed up there, nobody. BTW there were a lot of really great folks living up there. Always had to eat a hot tortilla when I would stop by one of my friends's mom's. And it really wasn't the "Wild, wild west", but to some of you, I think it would have been and then some...lol.

So that old man who shot his daughter and six of here kids, IYHO, was a gang banger. IMHO gang bangers are usually shooting each other. There are a heap of murders not attributed to gang bangers. In fact most of those I read about never mention a gang banger. So I am sorry but I do not accept your humble opinion.

[sgtsabai]

You confuse 2 posts, one of which I quoted from. I did not say all were gangbangers. On the other hand I was very involved in the arrest of a young teenager that tried to kill/shot his dad. His dad was without doubt one of the bad guys. The teenager I'm sure knew about gangbangers as did many others. Oh, he eventually succeeded in ridding our area of a very bad man. Many of the families had relatives in California, Espanola, Santa Fe, Albuquerque etc. and there were definitely gangbangers there. We had gang bangers from Espanola south. When one of the wanna' be's was sent up north by his family in Albq. he shot up the village and killed a friend of mine. The post about gang bangers did not say all murders were by gang bangers, please go back and reread both posts. He was talking about how statistics can be misleading. The mass murders are not by gang bangers, but insane people that should have never been on the street in the first place. Oh, I have no humble opinions, period.

[copa8]

So silly to see Americans in the general forum complaining that they can't have their guns in Thailand to defend themselves.

Having spent years reading this forum, it's not just Americans asking about guns.

As mentioned above, don't turn this into a US bashing thread. Show some respect here.

"The children range in age from 3 months to 10 years old". Mein gott!

Anyway, never knew there is such a thing as US-bashing. Usually it's China-bashing.

[craigt3365]

So silly to see Americans in the general forum complaining that they can't have their guns in Thailand to defend themselves.

Having spent years reading this forum, it's not just Americans asking about guns.

As mentioned above, don't turn this into a US bashing thread. Show some respect here.

"The children range in age from 3 months to 10 years old". Mein gott!

Anyway, never knew there is such a thing as US-bashing. Usually it's China-bashing.

You've not spent any time in our Russian threads? OMG. They are very difficult to moderate!

But enough discussion of moderation. Please.