Special report: Investigation into Koh Tao murders seriously flawed

[JOC]

From the picture in the OP.

So they are sending traffic-cops to solve a double homicide??

No wonder the case is a mess!!

[Tatsujin]

If Prayuth doesn't step in right now, tell the RTP to keep their mouths shut, get some Police/Military there who know what the <deleted> they are doing, stop making contradictory statements, and stop taking cash from the local big shots to "clear" them of any wrongdoing, then nothing will have changed here.

[rkidlad]

Before we start jumping all over the thai police let me ask one question.

How many murders go unsolved in your old country where they have all the latest equipment and training.

There are a couple of things to rmember.

1 KT is a back packers paradise because there is no police and it is a free and easy place.

That is good if you want to let loose but also makes life easy forsomeone that wants to do harm.

2. because it is an island there is in actuality no way to stop boats fromleaving

Yes, must be very difficult to solve. On a small island with a small population governed by the mafia. Add to that a completely corrupt and buffoonish police force (I hear the ones on Kho Tao are even worse)

I agree with you why this case is so difficult to solve.

Where there's a will there's a way. And believe me, there is absolutely no will!

[SOTIRIOS]

....at this point....how can anyone say what the facts are....

...it has essentially been 'a controlled crime scene' from day 1........

[Emster23]

Setting the stage for the defense lawyers is how things have been progressing. No DNA in condom? A man doesn't need to spill his seed in order for there to be DNA.... if it can be taken off a cigarette butt, should be no problem getting from inside a condom... me thinks the fix is in big time on this one.

[crazykopite]

Before we start jumping all over the thai police let me ask one question.

How many murders go unsolved in your old country where they have all the latest equipment and training.

There are a couple of things to rmember.

1 KT is a back packers paradise because there is no police and it is a free and easy place.

That is good if you want to let loose but also makes life easy forsomeone that wants to do harm.

2. because it is an island there is in actuality no way to stop boats fromleaving

Koh Tao does have police on the island there office is some 50 meters away from where the murders took place unless they have moved it since I was last there !

[fritzzz25]

"Police initially thought of turning to the US Federal Bureau of Investigation for help, but the idea was dropped when getting similar inferior and controllable assistance from Singapore became an option."

I wouldn't be so hasty to jump on the Singapore Police assistance, they are a well paid and well funded organization. The FBI isn't the "be all and end all" that everyone thinks they are. There are numerous other police agencies that do just as good of work and sometimes better than the FBI.

This investigation was definitely going to be inherently difficult to the best of police forces. The crime scene was compromised from the start due to the location being on the shore of a beach where tides have an effect. This in of itself is probably the biggest obstacle. Precious evidence would be lost with every wave.

The major problem with this investigation is what we are all reading.... the RELEASE of information. Crime scene photos were online within 24 hours of this incident. Numerous photos show the crime scene being walked through by what appears to be "the village headman" as seen in a photo posted online. The key to solving crimes like this is preservation of evidence that only the killer(s) would know. It is called "hold back" evidence (I referred to this in another post), that would only be known by the lead investigator and as FEW other investigators as possible. "Loose lips sink ships"... well this investigation has been sunk with everything laid out for the world to see (and the true killer). The UK embassy should be co-ordinating with the Thai government to assist in this investigation. They need to put their "face" aside, and get some people in there who KNOW what to do.

[pmh2009]

Before they ---the concerned authorities say or do anything ---- they should first solve the "Case of the Dead Saudi Diplomat" which was from the 80s!!!

All the suspects are dead--- most probably killed by the police themselves!!! Someone wrote here a comment on corruption, well look no further than this case... never has been solved, never will be solved due to the fact they themselves were involved!!! So this is it!!! If a case like this being pushed by the Saudi Arabian royal family gets no results for over 30 years how will a case like this be resolved????

[Elmer Gantry]

This country is making me sick,I worry for my daughter.If the choice was solely up to me without having to jump through red tape hoops I and my family would be on a plane out of here today.I find reading these threads the most saddening thing I have ever come across in all my time in Thailand.Before all the MAS brigade jump down my throat about not reading or commentating etc.I personally know of a family who had daughter murdered by Peter Manuel in the 50's.The end result was that it destroyed a beautiful family.

[ChrisY1]

"Police initially thought of turning to the US Federal Bureau of Investigation for help, but the idea was dropped when getting similar inferior and controllable assistance from Singapore became an option."

Would obviously be quite difficult to tamper with US DNA results...

[MJP]

Before they ---the concerned authorities say or do anything ---- they should first solve the "Case of the Dead Saudi Diplomat" which was from the 80s!!!

All the suspects are dead--- most probably killed by the police themselves!!! Someone wrote here a comment on corruption, well look no further than this case... never has been solved, never will be solved due to the fact they themselves were involved!!! So this is it!!! If a case like this being pushed by the Saudi Arabian royal family gets no results for over 30 years how will a case like this be resolved????

Was thinking the same a moment ago.

[Wilsonandson]

If Prayuth doesn't step in right now, tell the RTP to keep their mouths shut, get some Police/Military there who know what the <deleted> they are doing, stop making contradictory statements, and stop taking cash from the local big shots to "clear" them of any wrongdoing, then nothing will have changed here.

I think something has changed here. The whole world now knows that a foreigner on holiday in Thailand or an expat living in Thailand who is murdered can expect the same sort of investigation where the murderer is not caught or someone is fitted up for the crime i.e a migrant worker. The real murderer is free to murder again.

[j15mth]

One National Newspaper has said it was the Social Media to Blame. The Police always do the correct thing and blame ALL but themselves.

The Island is renowned for Backpackers,Partys Drugs and run by the Mafia.

[monk213]

So in the same day the police force come out blaming social media for muddying up the waters and bringing harm to the investigation, and now this article comes out and states several points I myself and many others have been screaming about the entire time.

The police are incompetent, they are corrupt, they are bought and legalized gangsters. This needs to change if Thailand is to change, and this double murder, at least in my 5 years being here, has caused the most international uproar and pressure out of any crime excluding coups. Lets hope this is a tipping point and the Mr General takes this and uses it to push forward. It is a great opportunity for him and Thailand to start setting the railway tracks straight.

[kriswillems]

Everyone knows the police is totally incapable and corrupt.

How many of the mysterious tourists deaths on Thai Islands during the last years got solved?

Hope this case is an exception, but probably not.

If Thai people would be murdered this way, there wouldn't even be an investigation of this kind.

Thai people suffer even more from the incompetence of the police.

What is most important is that the parents and family are not given false hope.

I see the police making declarations about how it will take another 2 days, while in reality they've messed up the whole case and have no idea of where to look.

The family should be aware of how Thai police works or doesn't work.

That will protect them from disappointments later on.

Edited September 26, 2014 by kriswillems

[JacknDanny]

If Prayuth doesn't step in right now, tell the RTP to keep their mouths shut, get some Police/Military there who know what the <deleted> they are doing, stop making contradictory statements, and stop taking cash from the local big shots to "clear" them of any wrongdoing, then nothing will have changed here.

Agreed. And even then it may well be to late to apprehend the guilty parties, but at least we may get closer to the truth.

Prayuth should send the army in, let Khun Pornthip secure and be in charge of all forensic details, including DNA samples. These DNA samples need to be retaken, repacked and reexamined.

All local police, including the Police chief need to be prohibited from taking ANY further part in the investigation.

I t is obvious to anybody having followed these sad events, that the chief suspects are the so called connected families and owners of the bars mentioned.

I think if Pornthip were to take their samples unhindered and personally take them to Singapore or wherever, then you will either know who the guilty parties are, or be able to clear these parties.

Bringing the guilty parties to justice is another matter . But at least they will have the evidence.

Everything so far, from allowing potential suspects to wander around the murder scene, to not securing the murder scene. Police making ridiculous statements. All smoke and mirrors, deliberately set in motion by the police.

It really is a disgrace.

[monk213]

Everyone knows the police is totally incapable and corrupt.

How many of the mysterious tourists deaths on Thai Islands during the last years got solved?

Hope this case is an exception, but probably not.

If Thai people would be murdered this way, there wouldn't even be an investigation of this kind.

Thai people suffer even more from the incompetence of the police.

What is most important is that the parents and family are not given false hope.

I see the police making declarations about how it will take another 2 days, while in reality they've messed up the whole case and have no idea of where to look.

The family should be aware of how Thai police works or doesn't work.

That will protect them from disappointments later on.

I was speaking about this one facebook yesterday about how flawed the police force have been in the case and the crime scene itself. Someone said to me, 'well you live in a developing country, what do you expect?'

I guess to some extent this should be considered, the Westernization of Thailand, the Burger King, shopping malls, all that crap sometimes can mask the fact we still live in a country far behind out homelands. That being said human nature should prevail in times such as a horrific double murder, common sense also maybe, if it exists here?

[Number 3]

This morning Andrew Drummond advises there are only two media outlets left covering this debacle in KT.

We must implore these representatives to stay on. Without their presence it will be game over for any type of justice. Daily mail and Jonathon Head of BBC please please continue your coverage of this from the island.

We support your decision to stay this long and will continue to do so.

[bangkokheat]

Thai police are reportedly coordinating with her family in the United Kingdom to get phone registration details and see if they can unearth any relevant clues.

why would you be releasing to the media your plan to get phone registration details, just another flaw i guess

[Incobart]

In my opinion, they had a great opportunity, as it happened on a small island. If I was the killer, I would get off the island as quickly as possible, especially if they start dna investigation.

More then 4000 burmese on the island, ok, but everyone that work there and have nothing to do with it will not try to escape. so if they would have controlled very well everyone leaving the island immediately the days after .... would have a record of Burmese that wants to leave, tourist that are suspicious/non suspicious .. locals that leave for what reason ?

these were maybe more possible dna samples then anyone on the island.

the search can also be narrowed to men .. age .. smoker (maybe brand) .. alibi of the people still on the island.

also distance of the crime scene, I don't think a rapper will bring his hoe from the other side of the island (without witnesses) the hoe should come from nearby ..

[navara]

I think the Thai police followed their own experiences at first. It is not likely that the common people of Kho Tao would do a crime like this. Perhaps we all have seen to much fbi stories on tv. It takes some time to make a profile of the murderers.

That they left the murder weapon, it very odd. Or they are plain stupid or just full of confidence. If the last is the case, the police should look into older cases, there might be a match. If this was a sexual offence, it must have occurred more often and it will happen again in the future. Perhaps those rapists are buddies (and always travel together). The police assumed they are drug abusers, are they? Was Jack the Ripper a drug abuser?

[tigermoth]

From the time the bodies were found unttil the arrival of specialist police investigators who are presumably based in Bangkok would not take more than 3 hours by chopper.

[navara]

I also asked myself 'how the murders knew about the woman'? Did they have met somewhere? Did they followed them or was it an coincidence? Where did the ax (field tool) came from? They must have stolen it. Or did they carry it? Somebody must have seen this.

[khunpa]

If Prayuth doesn't step in right now, tell the RTP to keep their mouths shut, get some Police/Military there who know what the <deleted> they are doing, stop making contradictory statements, and stop taking cash from the local big shots to "clear" them of any wrongdoing, then nothing will have changed here.

Maybe you should ask yourself, why he has not already done this a long time ago? It has been clear for days, that the investigation was a joke.

Nothing has changed or ever will. The agenda is still corruption, greed, racism and MONEY. Believing one man can change what requires a total mindset change in EVERYBODY, is an illusion. There is no hero, rightfulness or justice in this country and never will be for many generations to come.

[razer]

General consensus among Thais and expats is that the police always find the path of least resistance work and officially close cases with some absurd speculation.

Thai police proved themselves incompetent and poorly trained. Perhaps the new government could fix this by creating their own FBI who are trained in the west.

[MJP]

General consensus among Thais and expats is that the police always find the path of least resistance work and officially close cases with some absurd speculation.

Thai police proved themselves incompetent and poorly trained. Perhaps the new government could fix this by creating their own FBI who are trained in the west.

It's called the DSI.

[Plutojames88]

The place is gonna be cheap -

World media will forever label Thailand as poorly to the extreme policed .

Rightly or wrongly.

This is really looking bad for the Thai economy .

[joedot]

They think the guys that did this don't follow the media on this too? Let's just tell them exactly how we're investigating this so they know. I mean if you were the guy that did this and you heard that the police are trying to get the iphone info, don't you think you would lose that phone real quick. Such incompetent idiots it's almost unbelievable.

Edited September 26, 2014 by joedot

[khunpa]

General consensus among Thais and expats is that the police always find the path of least resistance work and officially close cases with some absurd speculation.

Thai police proved themselves incompetent and poorly trained. Perhaps the new government could fix this by creating their own FBI who are trained in the west.

This case, does not require trained police. I am 100% sure that the people on Koh Tao and the police know exactly who did this.

To solve a case like this requires non-corrupt police - nothing else. Thats also why the case is still unsolved and will remain so (unless a migrant scapegoat is found in the last minute).

[BestBitterPhuket]

UK myst demand that Scotland Yard gets involved to oversee the investigation. It will benefit Thailand as well because the police here obviously needs to learn about proper procedures and conduct. The UK government can't accept what has now happened.

The junta has to reform the police and it's going to be difficult. Without police reforms such reforms as the drive against corruption will fail again, and failure of the reforms means that the threat of Thaksin coming back and more instability. They have to do it. Take down the police completely. Change everything including the uniforms.