NGO questions if the two Myanmar suspects are scapegoats

[Soutpeel]

I can't remember where I read that there was to be a formal investigation by British authorities-

No you didn't, British authorities will not investigate anything....there may be an inquest to confirm the cause of death of both British citizens, which is already know - Murder

the "investigation" is a formality in these circumstances, the cause of death is not in question

is that what I keep seeing in the news that will happen on 6 January? It was mentioned in articles I read about the funeral back in UK. Is that all the inquest is, a confirmation of what we already know? To make it an official record I guess.

I guess so, in cases of suspicious deaths, in the UK or even overseas involving British nationals, believe it is law that an inquest be held and cause of death is entered into the record, in this case its a formality.

TV's CSI Thailand, should not start suggesting or believing the UK are going to investigate this case based on this info, they are not...its a legal formality that needs to be closed as there is no debate over the cause of death - they were murdered, it has nothing to do with and investigation into the innocence or guilt of any suspects.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Halion]

These Burmese have been arrested and charged under rather convoluted and dubious circumstances. A myriad of stories exist regarding torture, collusion and bribery. There is little doubt that these confessions were extracted under duress and both the current PM and the British Ambassador could not wait in conferring their adulation on the police for an outstanding job.

The deceased were British subjects and under the current circumstances this diplomatic buffoon should have kept his mouth closed. If he does not have the courage and intellect to do this job then he should simply go home and let a more capable person represent British interests in this country. This was not diplomacy but simply ass kissing disguised as political correctness.

[stephen terry]

I will provide evidence that the two Burmese are innocent. The 7-eleven staff witnessed McAnna (covered in blood, and as stated by another witness?) being threatened by Two Thai men who accused him of being on the beach and committing murder.

That is a whole different scenario to what the RTP has dreamed up to protect the guilty.

I don't quite understand this post...Sean was threatened about 1 week after the murder.

Your point being? read this. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11113268/Terrified-Briton-flees-Thai-island-after-mafia-death-threat.html

[metisdead]

A post linking to Bangkok Post has been removed:

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

[mataleo]

I'm guessing the thai police will make up some BS about the phone ... but i really can't see how they can get out of that one, caught red handed telling fibs.. the friend of Hannah needs to back it up...

[englishoak]

Even though he lives in the US, the Thai guy that runs CSI LA has been contacted by family members of the chief with threats to stop enabling people to get involved with the case.. or else.

Yup, there is pressure being brought to bare on any blog taking a keen interest in this case.

Its basic bully tactics and not unusual.

The threats are a clear indication some are more than a little concerned and that there are some real nasty characters involved...

If the FB page goes down or deleted youll know why.

[bunglebag]

Even though he lives in the US, the Thai guy that runs CSI LA has been contacted by family members of the chief with threats to stop enabling people to get involved with the case.. or else.

Yup, there is pressure being brought to bare on any blog taking a keen interest in this case.

Its basic bully tactics and not unusual.

The threats are a clear indication some are more than a little concerned and that there are some real nasty characters involved...

If the FB page goes down or deleted youll know why.

It is good that it is getting a lot of publicity. Likes are going up every second!

[Dogmatix]

Something is wrong with this whole case. There were multiple slits found all about the male's head; a small hand-held knife, it wasn't reported in the case? Something is very wrong here...

The latest police statement said that one of the Burmese confessed in writing (although he can't speak Thai) to attacking David about the head with the hoe and then dragging him to the water. After finishing that assignment he joined his friend in alternately raping Hannah and then his friend demolished Hannah's face with hoe while he presumably held her down. That doesn't explain why David had those knife wounds on his head but no hoe wounds like the awful ones inflicted on Hannah. It also means that one of the Burmese was restraining Hannah by himself while she watched his friend murdering David. The two Burmese men are tiny. They only come up the Thai policemen's necks and they are probably malnourished as they must be dirt poor and have apparently only been in Thailand for a short time, as they haven't learned much Thai yet.

Hannah would have fought for her life to get away while David was being attacked. The Burmese man who was restraining her would have scratches and bites all over him and she might have got away from him too. She would also have had signs of a struggle on her body which was not the case apart from the wounds to her face from the hoe. Unless David suffered a knock out blow at the outset, he would also have put up a struggle and the Burmese who attacked him would have the marks of it. Whichever way you look at it points towards several attackers. It seems more likely that David was held by half a dog pack while one of them laid into him with the knuckle duster knife, then they held him under the water. Meanwhile the other half of the dog pack must have been holding Hannah do tight that she couldn't move or cry out. (The early police theory that Chris Ware murdered both of them by himself is nothing short of preposterous).

Perhaps these two Burmese really were there but who else was there?

Edited October 4, 2014 by Dogmatix

[emilymat]

I can't remember where I read that there was to be a formal investigation by British authorities-

No you didn't, British authorities will not investigate anything....there may be an inquest to confirm the cause of death of both British citizens, which is already know - Murder

the "investigation" is a formality in these circumstances, the cause of death is not in question

is that what I keep seeing in the news that will happen on 6 January? It was mentioned in articles I read about the funeral back in UK. Is that all the inquest is, a confirmation of what we already know? To make it an official record I guess.

Put me right if I'm wrong. The guy David is not a British citizen. He's from Jersey, which is not part of the UK - except for defence purposes. My point is ,what, if anything have the Jersey Police said or done. Or nothing?

[kkup]

David's other mates also made a hasty exit on the Monday.. One of them also had scratches.. Maybe that means nothing but I think they probably knew what happened and were scared out of their minds so they bolted.

[Beetlejuice]

I wonder how they are going to answer this one?

This post nails it.

On the contrary Dr Watson, the only connection I see here on the two photos in the red circles drawn around some phones.

I'm intrigued Holmes that the two lads murdered ....then both raped....then murdered again....then decided to steal the phone....only to throw it in the bushes behind their hut later.

The only surprise in this case is the three weeks it took to solve wouldn't you say?

Well, my dear Watson, the way you describe the events, yes, I would say the whole thing stinks to high heaven.

But even I, a master detective am confused and confounded by all the mesh mash of reports that are now circulating around the media that I have no clues as to what order the actual chain of events should be placed in?

What is required here is a collated events list, starting from day 1 up to the arrest of these guys so as to be able to grasp and have a full understand of exactly how everything transpired and in what order.

I will have to fill my pipe twice and dwell on this, as this is a two pipe problem.

[kjhbigv]

I am a bit confused on one point?

"Pol Gen Somyot said Friday that investigators Thursday night found Witheridge's mobile phone near Wyn's living quarters."

Wasn't the phone handed in to the police, by her friend, after the murders?

[OmarZaidMD]

I imagine Sean McAnna has not expressed himself clearly or perhaps knows a bit more that what we do. The pieces do not fit from what I can see, and that's not saying much.

[Lozza]

Where to point ???

Did you see Mon headmans brother in the pics, he is in there front position next to one of the boy's. He has a bluish checked shirt. Look for a photo where two navy blue shirts are captured from behind...he is in that shot and also another of him observing behind a tree.

Can't post it because I don't know how to do it-yet. lol

[crazykopite]

The few police stationed on Koh Tao make a fortune each month collecting 500 baht for every illegal Burmese worker what the hell will they do when there all kicked off the island . These guys as far as I am concerned have been well and truly stitched up after all it would never ever be a Thai who would carry out these murders

[heyexile]

Rami=fications? - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765781-koh-tao-murders-guilty-by-dictum-or-trial-what-are-the-ramifications/#entry8484109

Good essay wilcopops. Unfortunately, zealous men on a mission may be impervious to international opinion expressed by inferior races. Media attention likely to encourage more isolationism and xenophobia.

The ultimate authorities have pronounced that the Burmese are guilty. End of story.

You`re right.

Whatever may turn up to question that decision, they cant back away from it now

[fgmr]

"She said the pursuance of the case by the British embassy and its lawyer has inevitably turned a pressure on the Thai police that could jeopardize confidence in the countrys justice system."

I agreed with her concerns and saw good points in her arguments right up until that last bit of nationalistic chauvinism.

Sure am glad you agreed with the lady's concerns. somehow I missed her "bit of nationalistic chauvinism".

[Lozza]

For all the knockers spruiking Thai bashing. We really don't care who did it could have been American French Thai Burmese we all want justice to be served in a dignified and professional manner.

The Police can only blame themselves for this outrage. They had headline news everyday all made up of course. They underestimated the outrage this crime would cause. With the eye's of the world on their doorstep they played out a farcical, embarrassing and corrupt investigation.

The PM should resign. I don't know of any PM in any country display this kind of behaviour nor even congratulate a force on a job well done albeit corrupt and in public.

Worst, every sentence they spoke was riddled with 'we need the tourist to feel safe. No, sorry Headman and his family are still on the Island so NO the tourists will not be returning en masse to fund his family in Koh Lak for his 20 year old sons driving brand new mercedes.

If I have to write to every travel agency around the globe I will. I will keep twitter and facebook very busy.

Karma coming your way.

The boys were coached it shows in the re enactments. Why did they give the boys a short handle dustpan, because they are about 4'9" and 48 kg too risky to bring out one the same size and weight a dead giveaway.

200 police to protect them, means another photo op. I think they're all on Ya Ba

[fish fingers]

I'm sure there will be a further twist to this story... hoping the relatives speak out and also the friends speak to the UK media at some point. I can't see how they can sit and watch this circus

[heyexile]

For all the knockers spruiking Thai bashing. We really don't care who did it could have been American French Thai Burmese we all want justice to be served in a dignified and professional manner.

The Police can only blame themselves for this outrage. They had headline news everyday all made up of course. They underestimated the outrage this crime would cause. With the eye's of the world on their doorstep they played out a farcical, embarrassing and corrupt investigation.

The PM should resign. I don't know of any PM in any country display this kind of behaviour nor even congratulate a force on a job well done albeit corrupt and in public.

Worst, every sentence they spoke was riddled with 'we need the tourist to feel safe. No, sorry Headman and his family are still on the Island so NO the tourists will not be returning en masse to fund his family in Koh Lak for his 20 year old sons driving brand new mercedes.

If I have to write to every travel agency around the globe I will. I will keep twitter and facebook very busy.

Karma coming your way.

The boys were coached it shows in the re enactments. Why did they give the boys a short handle dustpan, because they are about 4'9" and 48 kg too risky to bring out one the same size and weight a dead giveaway.

200 police to protect them, means another photo op. I think they're all on Ya Ba

You might like to start with Tripadvisor (I did) whose stance on this has been shameful from the start. Sign in and check out their Ko Tao forums, all the closed topics and deleted posts. GT ADVENTURES, a business on the isle, does not have its posts deleted. They are a kind of travel agency so...............

As for the outrageous suggestion that all the cops are on ya ba, would they consume their own product?

The honest and hard working police everywhere deserve all the support and rewards they can get. imho

[Mackie]

Do something good today and sign the petition. I don't know if it is too late to change anything but at least we can all try to do our bit to influence the outcome. The independent DNA test conducted by the British forensic team. If they declare Burmese guilty, so be it. I would personally hate to see innocent people executed.

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

[OPG]

For anybody interested in reading about DNA Testing Results Timeline, here's a link and it's actually quite interesting as it breaks down each process with a timeline and continues to the next with an additional timeline etc...until such time they complete the entire process that takes about 54 hours and 15 minutes to complete the DNA process.

http://www.patc.com/...-timeline.shtml

Now, I've also read that it is possible to have results on a DNA test in as little as 2 hours, but Thailand would need the RAPID DNA System that CODIS (FBI) has in the USA...and does not as they have all ready stated that they lack the technology.

Here's a link describing the RAPID DNA - http://www.evidencem...sk=view&id=1115

I want this to be over as much as anybody else, but the Thai Authorities have already earned the award for Non-Trustful Police Force and with as much news coming out about tourism and statements on how KT will return to profitability in the future...after the murders are solved etc... and how they will protect future tourists etc..., it shows that what matters most is the the dent in their pocketbook if they cannot clear this up quickly. I will believe their findings 1000000000000% and PRAISE THEM and donate to the Police Fund if they allow transparency and allow a reputable third party from outside of Thailand to confirm all findings and to match those findings to the three migrant suspects they currently have in jail.

The Authorities word alone now doesn't amount to crap...I'm sorry, but it's the truth!

Pol Lt Gen Kamrob Panyakaew, chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science, said experts in Bangkok were rushing to complete the tests, though each sample takes at least 48 hours to complete.

From an article in The Bangkok Post dated 28th September

AND he said this days after Mon's alleged DNA was allagedly cleared in less than 24 hours.

In less than 24 hours... That's the whole point of my post...it is impossible unless they were using CODICS in the USA. It's all false!

[phuketandsee]

Myanmar murder suspects escorted to Samui court for extended detention

KOH TAO: -- Two Myanmar rape murder suspects were this morning escorted by the police from Phangan island to Samui island for permission from the court to detain them 12 more days for further questioning.

Win or Wepew, 21, and Cholin or Soren, 21, both of Arakanese ethnics, were handcuffed and taken on board a speed boat from Phangan island to Koh Samui under protection by about 10 police, both in uniforms and plainclothes.

The travel to Ban Nathon pier on Samui took three hours. Both were later put in car to the Samui provincial court.

The police sought 12 days from the court to further detain the two suspects with reason that the 48 hours allowed by law to detain them has expired while they still needed more time for questioning.

The police said they would officially indict the two suspects on October 8.
The two suspects were seen to be very exhausted as they have been questioned throughout the night.

While at Samui police station, Win, a prime suspect, who spoke little Thai as he has been working on Koh Tao for three years, admitted to the murder of David miller and raping and killing of Ms Hannah Witheridge.

Another suspect, Mao, was not escorted to the court today as the police have booked him as the witness to the case.

Mao was playing guitar with the two suspects but left to see his girlfriend before the murder took place.

Earlier he was also charged, but after the two confirmed he was not involved, and DNA test did not match the samples collected on the victim’s body, the police freed him but still kept him as witness.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765779-myanmar-murder-suspects-escorted-to-samui-court-for-extended-detention/?p=8484841

More questioning?? After confessions and re-enactment?

Still any doubters out there?

[CapeThai]

I may be wrong, but i think that Sean McAnna knows a lot .

He accused a Koh Tao family, the Koh Tao family accused him.

So , why did Thai police let him go ?

Did they just dismiss him as a paranoid fool ?

If he went back home, why English police didn't ask him some questions ?

...Or did he vanished in the air ?

A couple of possibilities...

He's gone to ground in shame after been outed publicly for the child porn conviction.

Or he's signed a contract with a TV production company..

There is no doubt one will be working on a documentary as we speak and will probably be out within a month or so.

If he has he wont be speaking to anyone else until its broadcast as they will do anything to protect their exlusive.

Remember the British media have been in contact with him, even in Koh Tao so i imagine hes been signed up already.

Thats just how it works these days with something this big.

The police in the UK will definitely have interviewed him already, I suspect as he got off the airplane.

Whatever........ as long as the truth comes out in one way or another.... which I'm positive will happen sooner then we all think....

Thailand investigators or " cover up agents if I may " don't quite have Everything wiped under the carpet as they would have wanted it..... The pooh will hit the fan sooner or later

I just wonder if they're prepared for what is coming their way.......

Good Bye Paradise...... And welcome a completely worthless Thai Baht.... You lucky Brits..

[whaleboneman]

If you are suggesting the DNA was "planted" I trust YOU have very strong evidence, or are you just indulging in a bit of Cop Bashing?

I doubt, that given the international publicity surrounding these murders, the Royal Thai Police would take any chance on bungling the case.

As I indicated above, if you have evidence of wrong doing by our Police, I suggest you exhibit some Testicular Fortitude and bring it forward.

I take it you haven't followed this bungled case?

[bunglebag]

For anybody interested in reading about DNA Testing Results Timeline, here's a link and it's actually quite interesting as it breaks down each process with a timeline and continues to the next with an additional timeline etc...until such time they complete the entire process that takes about 54 hours and 15 minutes to complete the DNA process.

http://www.patc.com/...-timeline.shtml

Now, I've also read that it is possible to have results on a DNA test in as little as 2 hours, but Thailand would need the RAPID DNA System that CODIS (FBI) has in the USA...and does not as they have all ready stated that they lack the technology.

Here's a link describing the RAPID DNA - http://www.evidencem...sk=view&id=1115

I want this to be over as much as anybody else, but the Thai Authorities have already earned the award for Non-Trustful Police Force and with as much news coming out about tourism and statements on how KT will return to profitability in the future...after the murders are solved etc... and how they will protect future tourists etc..., it shows that what matters most is the the dent in their pocketbook if they cannot clear this up quickly. I will believe their findings 1000000000000% and PRAISE THEM and donate to the Police Fund if they allow transparency and allow a reputable third party from outside of Thailand to confirm all findings and to match those findings to the three migrant suspects they currently have in jail.

The Authorities word alone now doesn't amount to crap...I'm sorry, but it's the truth!

Pol Lt Gen Kamrob Panyakaew, chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science, said experts in Bangkok were rushing to complete the tests, though each sample takes at least 48 hours to complete.

From an article in The Bangkok Post dated 28th September

AND he said this days after Mon's alleged DNA was allagedly cleared in less than 24 hours.

In less than 24 hours... That's the whole point of my post...it is impossible unless they were using CODICS in the USA. It's all false!

Yes I agree. I was just pointing out that even their own head of forensics in Bangkok where the testing was taking place also (possibly unwittingly) agreed

Edited October 4, 2014 by bunglebag

[englishoak]

If you are suggesting the DNA was "planted" I trust YOU have very strong evidence, or are you just indulging in a bit of Cop Bashing?

I doubt, that given the international publicity surrounding these murders, the Royal Thai Police would take any chance on bungling the case.

As I indicated above, if you have evidence of wrong doing by our Police, I suggest you exhibit some Testicular Fortitude and bring it forward.

Are you for real ?

evidence of wrong doing by the RTP ? how about the whole episode from the beginning.

Failing to secure a crime scene, Destroying a crime scene, contaminating evidence, ignoring leads, ridiculous accusations and claims ongoing by RTP, ridiculous and scandalous and false theories by the police, torture and probably illegal detention, threats of violence and attempts at bribing people to be witnesses

If its your RTP then your police force are a total disgrace to all police forces around the world... a perfect example of how NOT to run a police force.... what you have there is a Police Farce, nothing else.

Edited October 4, 2014 by englishoak

[phuketandsee]

Some really good news:

Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

A team of lawyers has been sent to help the two migrant Myanmar workers being charged with murdering two British tourists and raping one of them on Koh Tao, a prominent activist for the rights of migrant workers said yesterday.

http://www.nationmul...n-30244775.html

[EnigmaBurn]

If the science (DNA) speaks, then the argument over 'rights' is kind of "namby-pamby" shouting in the face of the wind.

That being said, there are so many things wrong with this case, the investigation, forensics, suspect handling, international [undue] concern, and posturing that it boggles the mind.

I would like to believe it all tried and true, but I have a hard time doing that even based upon the Thais' own media handling of this sad situation.

It seemed sort of like (sort of, boiled down): Farangs dead - "Farang's fault, she's sexy" [That's not good for tourism...?] OTHER farangs did this! See? Not our fault!? ... "Oh, the science does not support that that..."

"We caught the EVIL, BAD, BLOOD THIRSTY and BLACK HEARTED persons resposible, several Thai men who confessed to the crime [after hours of 'intensive interrogation]."

"Yay for Thailand!" But wait - "Thais did this? NO! That is not good for tourism either.. Hold on...

"Burmese! [Those &$@&]! - now we got them!" Once again *intense interrogations* that needed to be done away from the police station(s) or prying eyes in ironically named 'safe houses' that led to full confessions of all the Burmese suspects.

Yay! No Thai perpetrators,no farang led awry in the Land of Smiles, nor was it even a mark for money. Instead it was those brutal savages from a boarding third-world county who properly confessed [during intense interrogation we needed to hold in s'safe' house, away from the official police stations].

GREAT! Woo-hoo! I said "science" at the beginning of this post. DNA, witness and camera footage seems to make a clear case. I agree with the Royal Thai Police in their findings ultimately, but the process was a farce and that undermines any semblance of truth you could hope to find...

No worries - just sit back and enjoy the Brit Ambassador busting his arm off patting himself and the new RTP commissioner on the back over the fine, FINE, job they are doing.

[Lozza]

It's now shaping up to be a Dark of the Moon Party -- not a Full Moon party.

As the brilliant Pink Floyd remarked "There is no dark side of the moon. It's all dark".

PARTY ON, Poindexter!

The new ad for tourists: Come to our island and buy drinks from murderers. Maybe you could be next!

These jokes don't really work on a thread about tragic murders.

Welcome to Koh Tao, Thailand...

The Thai forums are appalled by this as am I. @bongoz how dare you treat this subject as a comedy show..leave this forum now your not welcome.