CHARTER DRAFTING
Politicians blast ministry's call for an unelected PM
Nitipol Kiravanich
The Nation


Newly appointed National Reform Council member Chai Chidchob greets welcoming officials yesterday as he reports to work at the Parliament.

NRC man says an 'outsider' could lead country forward

BANGKOK: -- The Defence Ministry's proposal for an "outsider" prime minister has sparked much criticism from politicians that it is undemocratic.

"If Thailand wants to be seen as a democratic country, the prime minister should come from an election [by the people] rather than be an outsider," Udomdej Rattanasatien, a former Pheu Thai MP, said yesterday.

The Office of the Permanent Secretary for Defence on Wednesday submitted ideas for sweeping changes to the political sector to the National Reform Council (NRC). Among the proposals were the direct election of the prime minister and the appointment by the legislature of a "non-politician" as the head of government.

Udomdej said there was an attempt to make the public accept the concept of a non-elected prime minister, which was manipulating people's ideas of what a democratic country was.

Former Democrat MP Attawit Suwanpakdee said a non-elected PM could cause more disputes.

"If the prime minister does not come from an election, it will cause a bigger problem for the country later, and it is not the way of democracy," he said.

However, Prasan Maruekapitak, an NRC member for political affairs, supported the idea of an unelected PM, saying it would be another way to help the country move forward.

A popularly elected prime minister is not the only solution for the problems of the country. Giving an outsider the opportunity to govern the country might be another way to relieve the country's problems, he said.

"In the past we have learned that sometimes an election was dominated by some people. Their purpose was to amend the constitution for their personal gain. So an election should not be justified as the ultimate goal for democracy," he said.

The proposal by the Defence Ministry to the NRC raised fears that the junta might want to control the reform council by forcing it to follow its ideas.

The NRC will provide input to the Constitution Drafting Committee.

Prasan claimed that the proposals might be helpful to the NRC and could make the its work more efficient and according to plan.

However, another NRC member, Seree Suwanphanont, argued that the reform council was not controlled by the junta.

The NRC would listen to all proposals made by agencies or individuals on how to reform the country, he said.

"We will consider and listen, and will provide solutions for the country," he said.

The military-led government has not ruled out the possibility of staging a referendum on the new charter.

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam said the provisional constitution did not mention a referendum, but the government would consider whether one would be worthwhile.

"If people call for [the referendum] and the situation is right, we may have to allow the referendum to take place and set up a stage for supporters and detractors," he said.

Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha has asked for more time to decide whether a referendum should be held, he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Politicians-blast-ministrys-call-for-an-unelected--30245150.html


-- The Nation 2014-10-10

Without supporting the proposition, may I point out that the last PM was appointed by the fugitive criminal that owns PTP. As Weng said, when you are on the payroll, you follow the party line. the first step to stop this is abandoning the party list system.

BTW why are MPs allowed to accept payments other than their government salary and allowances? how is this not systematic bribery?

This is the only way the Thai ethnic Chinese can cease power, the Bangkok ruling elite know they could NEVER gain power by using democratic process. Have a look at the picture, not one indigenous Thai amongst them.

The last elected PM won in a landslide !

Just another article and statement trotting out the same rhetoric that the elite yellows know better than the majority of voters of Thailand .

They can't win one so use any means to take power.

Whatever they do, we are stuck with it. As investors and employers we have to make do within the circumstances this government determines. We cannot influence and we cannot change it. We simply have to get on with it ....... or move our business elsewhere because it becomes untenable. That will likely happen if there is not a great leap forward.......there are plenty of other countries to consider in the region. ....... just at the drop in FDI here.....

Just affirmation of what was expected. Very sad.

Thais take another four steps backward.

The irony of the situation is just amazing with the PM in Myanmar; as Myanmar takes its first tentative steps towards democracy, Thailand makes more 'noises' that suggest it is taking its tentative steps in the opposite direction towards a more authoritarian and less democratically inclusive political system.

a happy, old piggy on the way to the trough, oink, oink.

This is only one suggestion among many others put forward from one entity, it is not be any means a foregone conclusion.

There are other suggestions in the same package which sound very good even though appointing a PM from outside the political arena is not one of them.

It must be noted though that it has been done before with PM's appointed by someone who had no right to be involved in politics.

There will be many other suggestions from other groups before any decisions are made.

Would be even better with a greater range of ideas if some groups had not refused to take part, instead deciding only to stand back and criticize.

"...an election should not be justified as the ultimate goal for democracy," he said" Priceless!

Please define democracy in a way that excludes getting the people's mandate via the electoral process. Roll out the model and let's take a peek, shall we?

The irony of the situation is just amazing with the PM in Myanmar; as Myanmar takes its first tentative steps towards democracy, Thailand makes more 'noises' that suggest it is taking its tentative steps in the opposite direction towards a more authoritarian and less democratically inclusive political system.

Don't get too excited about Myanmar just yet. too early to tell how that will play out. The same guys are in charge who have always been in charge and I can't see them just giving everything up for Democracy. They will implement a one-party state with a veneer similar to Cambodia. Much like what is about to happen here. This coup is very unlike the 2006 one. This time the 'born to rule' group are playing for keeps!

This is the only way the Thai ethnic Chinese can cease power, the Bangkok ruling elite know they could NEVER gain power by using democratic process. Have a look at the picture, not one indigenous Thai amongst them.

No. This is not the only way. A coup is another way.

"If Thailand wants to be seen as a democratic country, the prime minister should come from an election [by the people] rather than be an outsider," Udomdej Rattanasatien, a former Pheu Thai MP, said yesterday.

Indeed a priceless comment from a creature who was part of the last Shinwatra sponsored administration.

Don't do as I do,. I do as my puppet master told and still tells me.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKM2ym4x-6JhhWk3NWCZvfCQUU4ly8P-V613IVh2am3GRibTEHtA

This is only one suggestion among many others put forward from one entity, it is not be any means a foregone conclusion.

There are other suggestions in the same package which sound very good even though appointing a PM from outside the political arena is not one of them.

It must be noted though that it has been done before with PM's appointed by someone who had no right to be involved in politics.

There will be many other suggestions from other groups before any decisions are made.

Would be even better with a greater range of ideas if some groups had not refused to take part, instead deciding only to stand back and criticize.

Why participate in something that is inherently illegitimate?

The last elected PM won in a landslide !

Just another article and statement trotting out the same rhetoric that the elite yellows know better than the majority of voters of Thailand .

They can't win one so use any means to take power.

Just another comment from a redshirt who still believes that Thaksin and his sister did no wrong.....a landslide ???....don't think so !! I think you should put your head back under your wing until all the damage that the Shins and their cronies created is rectified.

The last elected PM won in a landslide !

Just another article and statement trotting out the same rhetoric that the elite yellows know better than the majority of voters of Thailand .

They can't win one so use any means to take power.

Just another comment from a redshirt who still believes that Thaksin and his sister did no wrong.....a landslide ???....don't think so !! I think you should put your head back under your wing until all the damage that the Shins and their cronies created is rectified.

So if you believe in 1 person=1 vote, you are a redshirt??

Many redshirts worldwide!!

This is the only way the Thai ethnic Chinese can cease power, the Bangkok ruling elite know they could NEVER gain power by using democratic process. Have a look at the picture, not one indigenous Thai amongst them.

It's difficult to parse this comment, but if I understand you rightly, you're claiming that the only way that people of Chinese-Thai ethnicity could 'seize' power was via a coup? Though I'm totally anti-coup - and if I have understood what you say correctly - this notion strikes me as particularly stupid given the ethnicity of Thaksin and Yingluck, and given that the man in the picture (one of the 'good people', one of the incorruptible reformers charged with bringing forth a new order of clean politics and rule of law), is Chai Chidchob, surely the epitome of the rural machine politician, a man who knows more than most about winning elections, I'd say. I have no idea whether he's Sino-Thai or not, but many if not most elected politicians in provincial areas are.

I can see where the idea comes from that there is an ethnic divide between the wealthy Thai-Chinese and the 'indigenous Thai'* because I think there is genuine prejudice directed at rural people from a section of the affluent urban class. But that last word is key, because I think it's far more about class than anything to do with race. I might be wrong but I don't think most rural people have any resentment specifically towards the Thai-Chinese - or why do they keep voting for them? It happens that most politicians on both sides of the divide have Sino-Thai ancestry, but that's because they were the ones who became succesful in the new capitalist society post WWII and they saw politics (& military/police service) as a way of consolidating their newly found economic power.

Too much to go into now to give a detailed account, but it was the mostly 'ethnic' Thai govts of the 50s/60s/70s which were authoritarian and repressive, whereas the student movement and the communist insurgency were both largely Thai-Chinese organized (the ruling bloc attempted to ostracize both the student movement and the communist party by painting them as 'jek' outsiders, despite - or rather because of - the support both of these movements had amongst the wider population). Don't forget, most Chinese started as coolies or manual labourers and there was prejudice against them up until the early 80s.

It was only after this that it began to be seen as a privilege to be Chinese-Thai, and I think this is largely because of their success as businessmen and in the traditionally bourgeois occupations (doctor, lawyer etc), and the change in attitudes wealth brings about. Being Chinese-Thai was then marketed as a 'cool' thing, and this is perhaps one of the causes of the desire to have white skin (I think there are a few different things which might give rise to this phenomenom, which is not particular to Thailand anyway). It's also during the eighties that many of the Chinese-Thai bourgeois seemed to become ultra-committed royalists, and that's perhaps why you had the phenomenon of Sondhi talking about the proud sons & daughters of China or whatever it was. But to re-emphasize my initial point that this has little to do with ethnicity: at that time he was opposing PPP govt largely made up of people of Sino-Thai origin, with the very much Sino-Thai Thaksin Shinawatra as patron.

Anyway, to condense my argument: I simply see no reason to bring race into this. I don't know many Thai that are too bothered about Chinese-Thai (and if they made an issue of that rather than the inequalities of wealth and power in general, I'd simply assume they were misdirecting their antagonism towards race rather than the real issues) so I think the reading of ethnic conflict between Chinese-Thai and the "indigenous" people here is mostly a projection by outsiders. It's also strange that this issue is often brought up by those who claim to believe in equality. Because to me the singling out of Chinese-Thai as exploitative bears some resemblance to the anti-Semitism that plagued (and still plagues in some places) old Europe. If there's exploitation and inequality, point it out. But the ethnicity of those exploiting their wealth and power to further perpetuate inequality and injustice is surely irrelevant, unless it's overtly racially driven (i.e. slavery), which clearly isn't the case here.

*What does an 'indigenous Thai' look like anyway given that many taxi drivers and people from villages might have at least one Chinese relation somewhere down the line, and are Issan people properly 'Thai'? Some might beg to differ... ?

give the people a choice of ten names

let them campaign and be voted in

This is the only way the Thai ethnic Chinese can cease power, the Bangkok ruling elite know they could NEVER gain power by using democratic process. Have a look at the picture, not one indigenous Thai amongst them.

The Thai ethnic Chinese, Chiang Mai ruling elite (ie Thaksin) used money to seize power.

"If Thailand wants to be seen as a democratic country, the prime minister should come from an election [by the people] rather than be an outsider," Udomdej Rattanasatien, a former Pheu Thai MP, said yesterday.

Indeed a priceless comment from a creature who was part of the last Shinwatra sponsored administration.

Don't do as I do,. I do as my puppet master told and still tells me.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKM2ym4x-6JhhWk3NWCZvfCQUU4ly8P-V613IVh2am3GRibTEHtA

Apart from your pathetic reference to a former PTP MP being a "creature" as opposed to a human being, just why is his comment is such an anathema to you? Do you have any reason to believe that he was ordered by Thaksin to make that statement, other than your irrational fear of the man?

This is the only way the Thai ethnic Chinese can cease power, the Bangkok ruling elite know they could NEVER gain power by using democratic process. Have a look at the picture, not one indigenous Thai amongst them.

The Thai ethnic Chinese, Chiang Mai ruling elite (ie Thaksin) used money to seize power.

Really? Just money? Interesting. If it were that simple one would have thought the Democrat Party would have remained in power much longer than they have done

"If Thailand wants to be seen as a democratic country, the prime minister should come from an election [by the people] rather than be an outsider," Udomdej Rattanasatien, a former Pheu Thai MP, said yesterday.

Indeed a priceless comment from a creature who was part of the last Shinwatra sponsored administration.

Don't do as I do,. I do as my puppet master told and still tells me.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKM2ym4x-6JhhWk3NWCZvfCQUU4ly8P-V613IVh2am3GRibTEHtA

Apart from your pathetic reference to a former PTP MP being a "creature" as opposed to a human being, just why is his comment is such an anathema to you? Do you have any reason to believe that he was ordered by Thaksin to make that statement, other than your irrational fear of the man?

The MP is certainly more aware of Thai history than the poster and would recognize the relationship this proposal has to nearly a decade under the rule of another General in the 80's.

This country needs a Lee Kuan Yew to lift up the WHOLE population and modernize the country. Is there aThai person out there who is an extremely smart pragmatist, willing to learn from anyone (including foreigners) and who is totally honest with only the best interest if the country in mind, with the backing of the armed forces, police and general public, who can lead Thailand? No, I doubt it.

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Without supporting the proposition, may I point out that the last PM was appointed by the fugitive criminal that owns PTP. As Weng said, when you are on the payroll, you follow the party line. the first step to stop this is abandoning the party list system.

BTW why are MPs allowed to accept payments other than their government salary and allowances? how is this not systematic bribery?

An interesting take on the election of Yingluck Shinawatra by her fellow MP's......................... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

* just for the record, 296 of the 500 members of parliament voted to approve the premiership of Yingluck Shinawatra, three disapproved, and 197 abstained. 4 Dems didn't even bother to turn up.

You think forum readers are that stupid fabie.

There can be no doubt that very large numbers of the house members (or to be more accurate the salaried members of the get rich quick club) voted as per instructions from the club owner / their paymaster.

On the other hand why did such a very large number abstain?

Chamnan Chaneyang, independent law expert and a member of the Midnight University, said he was indifferent to the list. He said the purpose of establishing the NRC was for the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) to gain public approval and credibility, pointing out that the NRC would not have any real influence on the country's reform.

"The NRC is not an essential part of the country's reform because its only task is to propose a reform agenda, which will be approved by the NCPO."

Pretty good summary.

The last elected PM won in a landslide !

Just another article and statement trotting out the same rhetoric that the elite yellows know better than the majority of voters of Thailand .

They can't win one so use any means to take power.

You're stuttering, my dear parrot. The needle in your grammafone needs to be replaced, I think.

Mind you, I'm a bit surprised myself to see k. Chai as appointed NRC member. Maybe the NCPO forgot to set an 'age limit', or maybe they thought that to be undemocratic ?

PS the last elected PM won in a landslide as Pheu Thai and a few more other party MPs which agreed on a coalition, obviously needed a PM which was approved by that single person, the criminal fugitive abroad.

"...an election should not be justified as the ultimate goal for democracy," he said" Priceless!

Please define democracy in a way that excludes getting the people's mandate via the electoral process. Roll out the model and let's take a peek, shall we?

Priceless indeed, my dear chaser of visions. Imagine just wanting to have a democracy in order to stage elections.

The price for stating the obvious goes to k. Prasan Maruekapitak.

Chamnan Chaneyang, independent law expert and a member of the Midnight University, said he was indifferent to the list. He said the purpose of establishing the NRC was for the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) to gain public approval and credibility, pointing out that the NRC would not have any real influence on the country's reform.

"The NRC is not an essential part of the country's reform because its only task is to propose a reform agenda, which will be approved by the NCPO."

Pretty good summary.

Well, it might be a more correct summary if it was something like

"The NRC is not an essential part of the country's reform because its only task is to collect input, formulate and propose a reform agenda, which will be approved by the NCPO."

Mind you, somehow I think you would agree with the NRC not being part of the reform itself, nor should be part of the reform itself. We would like to avoid possible 'conflict of interest', now don't we ?

"If Thailand wants to be seen as a democratic country, the prime minister should come from an election [by the people] rather than be an outsider," Udomdej Rattanasatien, a former Pheu Thai MP, said yesterday.

Indeed a priceless comment from a creature who was part of the last Shinwatra sponsored administration.

Don't do as I do,. I do as my puppet master told and still tells me.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKM2ym4x-6JhhWk3NWCZvfCQUU4ly8P-V613IVh2am3GRibTEHtA

Apart from your pathetic reference to a former PTP MP being a "creature" as opposed to a human being, just why is his comment is such an anathema to you? Do you have any reason to believe that he was ordered by Thaksin to make that statement, other than your irrational fear of the man?

The MP is certainly more aware of Thai history than the poster and would recognize the relationship this proposal has to nearly a decade under the rule of another General in the 80's.

Pray tell and explain, my dear TB.

A former Pheu Thai MP knowing Thai history? I know one who tried to forget Thai history, but that was only 1976 history. The nearly a decade in the 80sh seems to be a reference to PM Prem who seems to have been appointed by a House of Representatives resolution and afterwards survived three elections. He was PM from 1980-03-03 till 1988-08-04.