Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police

[NeverSure]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

[JLCrab]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

So what if the alleged rapists pulled out before ejaculating or there was none?

[HeijoshinCool]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

So what if the alleged rapists pulled out before ejaculating or there was none?

.

You have blinders on.

In a scene like this one, there would be high probability of large amounts of Touch DNA on both victims, something I doubt the RTP sampled for, and since it was taken by an amateur, likely do not know exists.

[BSJ]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

So what if the alleged rapists pulled out before ejaculating or there was none?

There will still be body fluid from the rapist in the vagina. Sperm isn't the only thing!

[DerekMarshall]

Y in every report do they have to somewhere mention flocking tourists... Weird stuff. Mark Kent to little to late.... Let the justice process take its course.... What's that, suicide by days end. Sadly I fear their is no DNA to even be re tested. Release all the CCTV footage for a start. The airport CCTV footage would b handy also....

As would passanger list for all morning flights of the morning of September 16th. The CCTV footage of Bangkok university apartments alreadys shows an average student with a GPA of 2.0 going to class 40mins or so late and no bag no books!

Yes Mark Kent, get your finger out and do something about those photos you have seen of tortured Burmese people! Or..people could rebel and have you kicked out

just as the Yankies done with their Amabasador in Thailand!

[timewilltell]

KOH TAO KILLINGS

Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police

Suwannee Bantisak

The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- NHRC sending a team to investigate crime scene as suspects retract confession

In a related development, British Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent urged Thai social media users not to spread disturbing photos relating to the case or passport photos and details of the victims, saying their families had already suffered a lot. He made the request via his Thai-language blog on Friday. He also urged the Thai mainstream mass media not to prejudge the accused and let the justice process run its course.

Kent said the Thai media, including the social media, should be "responsible as well as free".

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Lawyers-want-DNA-tested-by-UK-police-30245295.html

-- The Nation 2014-10-12

I do not think Mr Kent has a clue about how the Thai justice system works. As for social media, people should take responsibility for their actions but that does not mean silence when there is such palpable corruption and incompetence exhibited nor should it stop people asking questions and demanding transparency.

As far as responsibility is concerned the Authorities and for that matter the Britsh Embassy have a far, far greater responsibility to seek the truth and justice and to ensure that Justice is SEEN to be done as well. That responsibilty comes from being representatives of the people regardless of who appointed them. Even the junta is there by consent of the people albeit implicit and uneasy.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[JLCrab]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

So what if the alleged rapists pulled out before ejaculating or there was none?

There will still be body fluid from the rapist in the vagina. Sperm isn't the only thing!

OK I withdraw -- I have avoided any discussion of evidence -- I'm only really interested in procedure.

[phuketandsee]

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

[DerekMarshall]

I love to repeat my request

It would be so easy to save the reputation for thailand and authorities

-release all cctv recordings from the crime night

-take DNA from Nomsod by an independence investigation group

It would be so easy to stop all speculations and outcry

Its so simple,isn´t it ?

yep so simple, but this is Thailand!

Passanger list of flights out of Koh Samui to Bangkok morning of 16th, class register from Bangkok university. Annalysis of original CCTV from Bangkok uni dorms

required as the current CCTV that is released shows nomsot leaving at 0916 while his class started at 0840 with no bag, no rucksack defo no books! barely a grade a student merely GPA 2.0 average at best! CCTV from Koh Samui port where speed boat was possible docked would help as would CCTV from airport.

An investigation into all murders and suspicious deaths including suicides over past decade could establish a pattern.

Look at policemen assets including their wives, and compare that to their salaries earned...

[Hisseho]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

Yes, they have this DNA, for sure. We can trust them

Since lawyers are calling for Burmese against expertise they can easily compare.

And I bet the hat of my ancestor that DNA match.

It seems to me impossible that the Thai police have lied about the DNA. Too big, too random, too risky. This would obviously be a conspiracy by idiots.

Contrary to overall racist and contemptuous opinions posted here I do not feel the conspiracy and I think that Thais are not idiots.

[lannarebirth]

This is really good news. It would end all the speculations if UK test the DNA from everyone involved. If the Burmese really did it , it would probably come as a shock for the rest of the world and clear RTP . So if RTP really wants to clear their name this is the only way. If they refuse , well this could very well be a coverup.

Be careful what you wish for. Without following proper testing procedures and chain of custody protocols any samples provided by the RTP would be worthless, or worse, implicate whomever they choose. In order to assure a good outcome, I would think all new samples would need to be collected from both victims and suspects, if indeed such samples still exist.

[JLCrab]

There have plenty of posts on this forum to the effect: We just want the truth to come out in respect for the victims. Bullsh-t.

If the 2 in custody are not responsible, and the REAL perpetrators are those who have been repeatedly suggested as such, then this becomes a story of Thai Police bungling, official corruption, bribery, the mafia in action, denial of human rights, and more.

If the 2 in custody ARE the real culprits,then it is just 2 stupid kids who got drunk and overreacted when they realized there were 2 people screwing near them on the beach.

[RubbaJohnny]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. '

Now that would be interesting.

Never going to happen.

If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large.

.

DNA samples taken from victims and suspects is termed "referral" samples.

The RTP has publicly claimed they are following "international" criminal investigative procedures.

In the west, in addition to referral samples, "elimination" samples of DNA are also often taken, and in a very public case such as this one, always taken.

What does this mean? Well, first responders such as police and medics, but also "bystanders" who may have contaminated the scene (intentionally or otherwise) give samples to rule themselves out. This should be done contemporaneously, but since the UK has had access to the victims, and has presumably (only recently) collected DNA, could still be done now.

The detective in charge in the UK, should "request" elimination samples.

Guess who was in a number of photos smack dab in the middle of the crime scene, while the victims were still there?

Is there a UK detective in charge? Where dd you find that please name him/her? Seems extremely unlikely the truth will out.The fall gus will either die rot or be swiftly deported.

What many people do not nderstand that rich importan6 people are above the law and in many "isloated " places are the law.The law is to police coerce those to poor to object.

A wanted criminal is issued a passport,doznes are shot in the capital nobody brough to book,drag a cop to his death no consequences,nightclub fires.I regret those new to the local justice system are about to discover the local mores.How much justice can you afford?

Foreign agencies ,ambassador,and Reuters press can say what they wish the poor and non English soeakers will never read that.The wealthy with cash and passports don't care and the aspiring middle classes understand censorship,the meagre cost of a hit and why its safer not to ruffle pooyais. Phuketwan ase reveals the state of local investigative journalism.

There is no democracy,press courts or law enforcement in the way westerners are used to ,think feudal warlords power protecting face cash and phallocrats.

[evadgib]

From the OP:

British Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent urged Thai social media users not to spread disturbing photos relating to the case or passport photos and details of the victims, saying their families had already suffered a lot. He made the request via his Thai-language blog on Friday. He also urged the Thai mainstream mass media not to prejudge the accused and let the justice process run its course.

Kent said the Thai media, including the social media, should be "responsible as well as free".

Link to the full text:

http://blogs.fco.gov.uk/markkent/2014/10/10/media-should-be-responsible-as-well-as-free/

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

What and lose face like the case at Chiang Mai a decade + back, when the BBC and the murdered girls family got a Ex Scotland yard guy out and he found the killer, a Thai, the PTP had charged a guy from Sydney, they threw the BBC out and cancelled there media accreditation.

[NeverSure]

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

Wasn't it the official from Burma who visited them, who told that they confessed only because they were tortured? Wasn't it to that person that they recanted the confessions?

So the RTP have them back and again they are confessing? Is that the story?

[Eliot Rosewater]

the weird thing in this case is the fact that Thai police have claimed they base their case on witness statements and cctv footage but no mention of the DNA match

If a sample of the DNA evidence originally obtained from the crime scene cannot be provided by the Thai police for independent testing then this case is far from solved - it has already been pointed out by the head of forensics in Bangkok that his team (which should have been involved from the start) had seemingly no involvement

So who is holding the DNA from the victim ? and why is it not being made available to defence lawyers

If the DNA doesn't match then there is no case

If Thai police won't provide samples of the DNA for independent testing - why not ?

Could the UK authorities have tested the bodies on return to UK, or would they have been scrubbed clean?

[DerekMarshall]

There have plenty of posts on this forum to the effect: We just want the truth to come out in respect for the victims. Bullsh-t.

If the 2 in custody are not responsible, and the REAL perpetrators are those who have been repeatedly suggested as such, then this becomes a story of Thai Police bungling, official corruption, bribery, the mafia in action, denial of human rights, and more.

If the 2 in custody ARE the real culprits,then it is just 2 stupid kids who got drunk and overreacted when they realized there were 2 people screwing near them on the beach.

But then why does Sean McAnna have similar injuries to those received by David?

The two Burmese kids and tiny and have supposedly beaten up David who is strongly built and 6ft 3 (190cm) tall Hannah much taller than them also. So the beat up rape, kill and drag body to the sea yet they the tiny Burmese kids have not a single mark on their bodies?

Mean while class mates of nomsot (who refuses to take DNA test) claim to have seen scratches on his neck while he attended class the following morning in Bangkok.

Missing 2mins of CCTV.

Failure to seal crime scene.

Failure to take moulds of foot prints

Failure to take finger or partial finger prints from the bloodied Hoe.

Publishing of photos of dead bodies by RTA policemen yet still being allowed to work on the case.

Mafia henchmen photographed standing next to police looking like best of mates at the crime scene

An "independent" translator Mr Banana pancake photographed in a RTA uniform!

2 Burmese passing initial DNA testing.

Refusal to insist and take DNA from nomsot.

Not looking at CCTV from Koh Samui airport or passanger lists of the morning after the murders and comparing to residents/tourists on the Island (TM30 would help there!)

If Nomsot is innocent why did he run from the island and wjhy is he refusing DNA test?

If the Burmese are guilty why did they not run?

Why release vital information and clue to the public way way way too early?

I am no Dick Tracey but even I can punch holes in RTA investigation.

[BritTim]

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

Wasn't it the official from Burma who visited them, who told that they confessed only because they were tortured? Wasn't it to that person that they recanted the confessions?

So the RTP have them back and again they are confessing? Is that the story?

I think it is pretty clear the suspects have been warned that, if they persist in retracting their confessions, they will prove their guilt by committing suicide.

[doremifasol]

"The NHRC, meanwhile, is sending a team to examine the crime scene".

Hoping to find what exactly? A month has passed.........................

[JLCrab]

Re post #48: There are plenty of persons on here already with whom you can debate the evidence. In Thailand, a judge or judge panel can throw out all the evidence and still make a guilty or not guilty determination.

[boomerangutang]

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

I was 'never sure' about UK authorities taking DNA samples, so I wouldn't bet my bippy nor my Lady Gaga brassiere on that. I hope it's true though, and just as importantly, I hope UK authorities will step up to the plate and quit being brown-nosing pansies.

Newspaper that shall not be named reporting this morning that police say recanting of confession was just a "rumor" and that "suspects" are maintaining their guilt and "repented their crime"

Zero surprise. Cops are also priming the public for possible 'suicide' of the Burmese.

It seems to me impossible that the Thai police have lied about the DNA. Too big, too random, too risky. This would obviously be a conspiracy by idiots.

And it's impossible a Thai bar girl would ask a farang for money for her sick father, if her father wasn't really sick?

[balo]

And it's impossible a Thai bar girl would ask a farang for money for her sick father, if her father wasn't really sick?

Please do not compare bar girls with the RTP. Decent Thais despise bar girls.

This is not something you should joke about,

[NeverSure]

And it's impossible a Thai bar girl would ask a farang for money for her sick father, if her father wasn't really sick?

Please do not compare bar girls with the RTP. Decent Thais despise bar girls.

This is not something you should joke about,

Yes of course. Dont compare bar girls with the RTP. It is sooooo insulting to bar girls.

[JenniferSG]

I love to repeat my request

It would be so easy to save the reputation for thailand and authorities

-release all cctv recordings from the crime night

-take DNA from Nomsod by an independence investigation group

It would be so easy to stop all speculations and outcry

Its so simple,isn´t it ?

You'd have to have access to the evidence (DNA profile from attackers) to compare Nomsod's DNA. An independent investigation thus would need that evidence from the Thai authorities. What's the liklihood of that?

[JenniferSG]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. '

Now that would be interesting.

Never going to happen.

If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large.

.

DNA samples taken from victims and suspects is termed "referral" samples.

The RTP has publicly claimed they are following "international" criminal investigative procedures.

In the west, in addition to referral samples, "elimination" samples of DNA are also often taken, and in a very public case such as this one, always taken.

What does this mean? Well, first responders such as police and medics, but also "bystanders" who may have contaminated the scene (intentionally or otherwise) give samples to rule themselves out. This should be done contemporaneously, but since the UK has had access to the victims, and has presumably (only recently) collected DNA, could still be done now.

The detective in charge in the UK, should "request" elimination samples.

Guess who was in a number of photos smack dab in the middle of the crime scene, while the victims were still there?

Who says anyone in the U.K. took samples from the victims? The bodies were released to the families (who would coordinate with a funeral home), were they not? Where was it said that the bodies were turned over to U.K. police or that autopsy or any other examination was done in the U.K.?

[phuketandsee]

Check out BP opinion piece (google The big issue: The unsolved murders).

This looks like it has reached critical mass now.

[jpp2bkk]

What would have been Mr Kent reaction to this farce if it was one of his child "Let the "justice" process run its course"!!!??? Really? I don't think so.

[JenniferSG]

Exactly as this is what it all boils down to.

Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want.

Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too.

Sorry, I don't think that is totally accurate.

Myanmar lawyers can come here and take their DNA any time they want. They have the jurisdiction in Thailand, as they are the Myanmar Embassy lawyers. So they almost certainly are licensed to practice in this kingdom.

They are completly within their rights to demand the ability to collect DNA from their clients which will be the main basis for their defence.

Neither the Junta nor the BIB have any right to block it. These are NOT Thai nationals..... They are Myanmar nationals.

They have rights under international law.

Specifically what rights under "international law" are you referring to?

[JOC]

I don't understand the blind faith by many posters here in that DNA will solve the case.

It might get the two Myanmar guys off, but will not help get the real killers!

You are not so naive, that you think the original DNA from the girl, is not conterminated from day one to cover the backside of the real culprits?

So their will never be a match to bind someone to the crime, but at best to exclude suspects!!