British police arrive in Thailand to observe Koh Tao murder probe

[RustBucket]

I was under the impression they arrived last week.

Maybe that was unofficial and they have been having fun on Soi Cowboy and Nana for a week and can now get to observing.

What ever that means.

What on earth are you on about? This isn't a holiday you know and it's not a joke. The UK police are here working and they will work non-stop until they get justice for Hannah and David. They are not a tin-pot organisation. They have an international image as being the best police force in the world. They don't mess about.

If they get shit from the RTP they will make a big noise, Thailand will end up even worse off than they were before Prayuth gave the offer of them to come here. He could well end up looking a complete corrupt PM over the coming days or weeks if he just sits back and allows his police to continually embarrass him and Thailand. You think he won't care?

There will have been undercover Brit police on KT from week one.

[carmine]

I'm fascinated to know what they are going to observe. A 39 day old crime scene?

Just allowed them to dna test the two Burmese boys and the key suspects on Koh Tao, let them match the samples, case closed.

It really is that simple if the authorities want total clarity and satisfy the concerns of those watching this around the world. If everything has been done correctly why wouldn't the Thai police allow this to happen. They should be delighted for the opportunity.

Otherwise i doubt the conviction of those Burmese lads will ever be accepted.

[SteveFong]

I searched Google to see if i could find anything about Chris Ware's statement to Scotland Yard

I found a link to Daily Mail in UK

But the site is blocked but Thai information ministry

www.dailymail.co.uk

I didn't see a "statement" from Chris Ware to Scotland Yard

There is a summary of Scotland Yards preliminary investigation that may have actually started by Chris walking into a detective bureau upon his safe return to the UK

There was an article, now buried where they reported being chased or followed in Bangkok, by "fake police"

which, can mean almost anything apparently in Thailand.

the summary is on a social media website that we are not permitted to link too, but, CSI LA on that website posted a full review, which named names, and stated

"Scotland Yard knows who the Kho Tao killers are"

[culicine]

I don't believe that it is a waste of time. The officers will examine evidence and procedures, compare with what they know and do in Britain, and tell the world what they think. How can that be a waste of time?

What have they got to examine?

There is no real evidence and no proving the evidence provided is correct or incorrect.

They are not authorised to finger the justice system.

They will find nothing, it's just a few officers or forensics off on a free holiday.

Simple as that.

The Thai police will only have to open their mouths and attempt to answer difficult questions. The writing will be on the wall the UK police. There is not much they can say or do about it though. They can however brief the defense of all the holes in the BiB's story to get it thrown out of court. Pictures of possible suspects and others trampling the crime site (with police!) should raise alarm bells. I hope new swabs are taken form the accused and re-analaysed and compared to data held in Singapore. I hope the defense can request that.

[Artisi]

I have little doubt this case has been truly solved by now by the Brits. It is just a matter of process to diplomatically switch the scapegoats for the real murderers. With the leverage they have should not take long.

Think there is a lot of truth in your statement, however there is a long long road to travel between the 2 current scapegoats and pinning the tag onto the real crims. so many obstacles, twist and turns, hurdles, water crossings, and long toes that need to be stood on - Oh! and don't forget "face" and the all important money aspect.

[BoristheBlade]

British police keep there findings close to hand, statements, evidence, observations etc, that something the British Bobbys should be teaching the RTP when they come calling.

I searched Google to see if i could find anything about Chris Ware's statement to Scotland Yard

I found a link to Daily Mail in UK

But the site is blocked but Thai information ministry

www.dailymail.co.uk

I didn't see a "statement" from Chris Ware to Scotland Yard

There is a summary of Scotland Yards preliminary investigation that may have actually started by Chris walking into a detective bureau upon his safe return to the UK

There was an article, now buried where they reported being chased or followed in Bangkok, by "fake police"

which, can mean almost anything apparently in Thailand.

the summary is on a social media website that we are not permitted to link too, but, CSI LA on that website posted a full review, which named names, and stated

"Scotland Yard knows who the Kho Tao killers are"

[daiwill60]

Isn't it odd that you can open the home page of any article that is not in anyway linked to Thailand, Koh Tao or any thing else to do with these murders, Thank you Ministry of DISINFORMATION

[SteveFong]

The road may be shortened if there truly was an incident in the bar that night,

or someone else has come forward with information, because they fear for their lives

No one knows what the Scotland yard detectives know,

but assuming they have underling people who are in touch with the people doing the "armchair" investigative work and the rest of us "idiots on the internet"

they know plenty

there is also another British female who has come forward to detail her near rape at the hands of some of the same people being accused now, and another woman has claimed she had to jump off a balcony to escape the same people,

this is getting uglier

[TuskegeeBen]

Let's hope the Embassy gave them a very full briefing on what to expect here, what they will be up against and what they MAY be allowed to do / see and most especially what is NOT going to happen.

If this all becomes a waste of time, barely going through the motions, I hope on their return home they are permitted to speak out fully on what did or did not happen. It's too important to have to observe diplomatic niceties so as not to upset Thailand.

As if the British Embassy has even the remotest clue, to give Scotland Yard the "heads-up" on the ways of LOS,

Edited October 24, 2014 by TuskegeeBen

[culicine]

I suspect they'll be home soon, expelled for working without a workpermit

Certain kinds of temporary work don't need a regular work permit.

[boomerangutang]

I don't believe that it is a waste of time. The officers will examine evidence and procedures, compare with what they know and do in Britain, and tell the world what they think. How can that be a waste of time?

Thai officialdom has been obfuscating (and framing the Burmese, and shielding the headman's people) for over a month now. What makes you think the Thai brass are going to miraculously change their game plan now? International reputation? That's secondary when compared to repercussions - if it's proven Thai officials arranged a frame-up. Loss of face is bad (for Thai officials) but not as bad as impact on career status and money prospects.

I'd like to picture UK experts being able to do a dynamic investigation, but the Thai PM has already made clear: that can't happen. Thais control every aspect of this farcical investigation, and are determined to keep it that way.

[TuskegeeBen]

I suspect they'll be home soon, expelled for working without a workpermit

Certain kinds of temporary work don't need a regular work permit.

Apparently the sarcasm went totally over your head

[gyrosman]

I find it interesting that some writers believe that having the British police here will be a waste of time. I would imagine these officers are the best of the best under strict orders from the PM, and if you think that a bunch of Thai police can hinder their technical investigation I think you been in Thailand to long. For one thing the new Thai PM is clever enough the best in years will open any means to properly solve this case. It's 2014 and if Thailand is to be taken seriouly on a world stage then they will learn and not hinden, after Billions of $$$ are at stake. The world is watching especially the ASEAN partners, it time Thailand wakes up, there's more to making a society and economy grow then just screwing tourist. Stop importing cheap China products, education the people and create jobs. India declared yesterday to stop the influx of China products which is causing lost of jobs.

So, I think you'll find a few more police with all of the decorations and ribbions on their shirt fired. Every cop in Thailand has a paratrooper jump pin on their chest, bullshit. Where do they buy these things. Teachers dressing like military officers, who dresses these people.

The point being International attention to this case and false sense of being special here in Thailand with vanish, its just a country with many many problems and the outside is coming, like it or not.

[judgedredd]

The Koh Tao Murders... Simply follow the Electronic Trails...

Perhaps there is great value in what the British cops could follow and observer - - This is what a well-connected and computer savvy British cop should "follow and observe" in Thailand - -

Start with the obvious: The murders were perhaps committed by a well-connected Thai. That is what everyone suspects, so why not start there? Doesn't it appear that the village headman was too keen on avoiding a police investigation of his extended family and friends? To what lengths did he go to deflect an honest inquiry?

It has only been about 6-weeks since the young British couple were slain by unknown attackers. The DNA samples may have been compromised, but the electronic trails are still very warm.

Thai people (..wealthy and powerful and average..) all love their mobile phones and their ATM cards. The British investigators should follow the electronic trails, in order to establish probable or circumstantial evidence.

Even if the Koh Tao village headman and his family have all changed their mobile phone numbers, and opened new bank accounts, it doesn't matter. The local phone company computers retain all SMS text messages, and all cell tower connection data for 90-days. (This is true for DTAC, AIS, etc.) The Thai banking and ATM and CDM data is essentially retained "forever".

The British investigator needs only a starting point. He should start by determining this - -

1. What mobile phone number(s) were in use by the Koh Tao village headman, his son, and their extended circle of family and friends and cop buddies on or about 15-Sept-2014? Start with even just one verified phone number. Follow the connections. Read the text messages. You don't need triangulation data. Just a connection record with one single tower will show where in Thailand was any given mobile on any given day. The text messages, together with the approximate location of the Thai suspects, and the spider's web circle of connections will surely raise a few eyebrows. If we were back in the real world, that is how real police would establish locations and extract electronic information. (By the way, I am not referring to GPS/GPRS data from 3G/4G mobiles. All mobiles, even old 2G phones, leave connection data on the DTAC/AIS computers. Look at the signal strength bar graph on any Thai mobile. When switched on, a mobile phone is continually "connected" to at least one cell tower. Part of the 90-day data retention record is simply the tower registration number, to which that mobile phone is connected at any given time.) (Also, please realize that when you "erase" SMS text messages from your mobile, you have only erased the local copy. The server copy still has a 90-day shelf life...)

2. What bank accounts were in use by the Koh Tao village headman, his son, and their extended circle of family, friends, mia nois, girlfriends, (and cop buddies) on or about 15-Sept-2014? Follow the ATM withdrawals and the CDM redeposits from that day forward. Follow the account-to-account transfers. Follow the money trails. Ask questions. If we were back in the real world, that is how real police would investigate "suspicious behavior" in terms of who was paying off whom from 15-Sept forward...

3. Which cops, translators and other persons of interest were involved with the young Burmese boys in the "Safe House" on Koh Tao? What mobile phone numbers were those cops using on the day that the confessions were "extracted" from the Burmese suspects? The British police should follow the connections from those cops' mobile phones to bigger fish up the food chain. Wouldn't you like to read those Thai cop mobile phone text messages from that day?

It wouldn't take Agent 007 to connect the dots on all of the above, now would it? The media reports that 7 or 8 British cops are here in Thailand looking into the murders. All you need is one computer savvy British cop, and one "honest" Thai translator, and a court order allowing unfettered access to all electronic phone and banking records still stored on local servers.

It ain't rocket science...

JD

[NongKhaiKid]

Undercover Brit police on KT from week one, where did you get that one from ?

Overseas enquiries tend to be given to experienced officers who are and probably look mature. So a couple of ' older ' tourists arrive on KT and do what ?

Are they fluent Thai speakers who can tune in to what's being said or do they do the obvious and give themselves away by asking questions which set alarm bells off ?

At best they might be taken for reporters which would attract official flak, improper visa, no work permit BUT if identified as police officers ... !

" Oh just on holiday and curious " !

This is real life not your television fantasy.

[boomerangutang]

Just curious, does that guy in the photo have a gimpy left arm? If so, much easier to identify.

Yes, that's been noticed by a bunch of us on social media. Yet, it's likely just another of the dozens of potentially useful things that Thai cops either don't want to see (because it implicates the protected family) or they're just too numb-brained to notice.

The key security photos show a young thin man with striking resemblance to Nomsod (headman's son) - with a gimpy left arm. It's also been claimed (by one of his buddies) that Nomsod is left-handed. Note: most of the stabbing wounds to David were on the right side of his neck. Additionally, there are photos of Nomsod relaxing (at other times) and his left arm is clearly curled up in a similar manner to the security photos. None of this is of any interest to Thai officials because it doesn't dovetail with their frame-up of the Burmese, but perhaps the Brit experts can add it to the many things they should be delving into (yet, they won't be allowed, because the Thai PM stated the Brits are only here as observers, not investigators).

[razer]

Thailand is a member of INTERPOL. They have a right to investigate in Thailand. What does it take to get INTERPOL involved?

[boomerangutang]

True tidbit: I had a break-in at the 2nd story of my Thai house. Cops arrived. I showed them muddy boot prints on a white outside wall - where the thief had likely climbed up an adjoining tree. Police grinned and waved it away as inconsequential. Inspector Clouseaus, they aren't.

[Robert2006]

How much input will they be allowed?

If just observing then they might as well stayed at home.

As for setting up a police station well that horse as truly bolted but I suppose anything is better than the current set up.

Still the RTP reckon they have the guys and the DNA so innocent until proven guilty but if they are then throw the full weight of the courts at them

Here is a sentence from a National News Bureau of Thailand article dated October 23rd. “Regional Public Prosecution 8 deputy director-general Thawatchai Siangjaew said that “Thai police will be able to answer every doubt raised but no outside authorities can send their people to work on this case as Thai laws do not permit such a scenario”.

What a scam, it's theater, a show for the public, the Brits will not be allowed to work on the case.

it is not a scam

Chris Ware stood up for his friend, and gave a full briefing of what happened that night.

The full details of what Scotland Yard detectives know, is everything we hoped for, and more.

So much so, that the word is, the Police general in charge, has recently gone on sick leave and his whereabouts are unknown

This case has blown wide open, and the people involved know it

Expect this to get bigger than any of the bad actors could have ever expected, and with it, international coverage of their arrests

That is great news. I hope you are correct.

[binjalin]

True tidbit: I had a break-in at the 2nd story of my Thai house. Cops arrived. I showed them muddy boot prints on a white outside wall - where the thief had likely climbed up an adjoining tree. Police grinned and waved it away as inconsequential. Inspector Clouseaus, they aren't.

didn't you mean to say "ARE"?

[alfalfa19]

We will all observe them, when they leave Thailand completely bored, with made up bullshit, they are only allowed to see, useless completely

Bullshit. These are not RTP assclowns. I'm guessing these are very serious guys, on a serious mission. They may not be able to do everything they want/need to, but I'd be a week's paycheck that they will not go back to Britain carrying some little fairy tale.

[boomerangutang]

Better they come here with a job to do and have a local translator to assist.

Good point. However, there is a caveat: Have you ever tried using a Thai person as a translator? Here's been my experience:

>>> they either summarize to such an extent, that four paragraphs spoken (by other Thai person) gets two or three words conveyed by translator, often with a shrug of the shoulders.

and/or

>>> Thai translator, who is intimately knowledgeable about myriad Thai customs, will take the straight talk of the farang, and convolute it with florid niceties - thereby diluting (or possibly mis-representing) what the farang is trying to convey.

I once went to a Thai translator to translate a letter I wanted to write to my neighbor. My language was straightforward, whereas (I found out later) the Thai watered it down to a flaccid miasma of text.

[alfalfa19]

Just curious, does that guy in the photo have a gimpy left arm? If so, much easier to identify.

Yes, that's been noticed by a bunch of us on social media. Yet, it's likely just another of the dozens of potentially useful things that Thai cops either don't want to see (because it implicates the protected family) or they're just too numb-brained to notice.

The key security photos show a young thin man with striking resemblance to Nomsod (headman's son) - with a gimpy left arm. It's also been claimed (by one of his buddies) that Nomsod is left-handed. Note: most of the stabbing wounds to David were on the right side of his neck. Additionally, there are photos of Nomsod relaxing (at other times) and his left arm is clearly curled up in a similar manner to the security photos. None of this is of any interest to Thai officials because it doesn't dovetail with their frame-up of the Burmese, but perhaps the Brit experts can add it to the many things they should be delving into (yet, they won't be allowed, because the Thai PM stated the Brits are only here as observers, not investigators).

Thanks for that reply. I'm trying to get some clarification about this case. It's not easy because of the shills and imbeciles posting nonsense all through these threads, in an attempt to muddy things up.

[culicine]

I suspect they'll be home soon, expelled for working without a workpermit

Certain kinds of temporary work don't need a regular work permit.

Apparently the sarcasm went totally over your head

No it wasn't. But I've heard that comment on numerous occasions to think people actually believe that.

[boomerangutang]

True tidbit: I had a break-in at the 2nd story of my Thai house. Cops arrived. I showed them muddy boot prints on a white outside wall - where the thief had likely climbed up an adjoining tree. Police grinned and waved it away as inconsequential. Inspector Clouseaus, they aren't.

didn't you mean to say "ARE"?

You're right. I forgot: Clouseau was a bumbler. How about this:

"Inspector Poirots they aren't"

[RustBucket]

Let's hope the Embassy gave them a very full briefing on what to expect here, what they will be up against and what they MAY be allowed to do / see and most especially what is NOT going to happen.

If this all becomes a waste of time, barely going through the motions, I hope on their return home they are permitted to speak out fully on what did or did not happen. It's too important to have to observe diplomatic niceties so as not to upset Thailand.

You seem to think they are wasting their time here because Thailand is a very important country in the international community/

I don't think so... I would go as far as to say that Thailand has totally pissed the UK off, and the government are under pressure there, and will be put under even more 'uncomfortable' pressure by media and the British public to do something about Thailand.

Thailand is an insignificant sex tourism and hedonist destination. It is of no significant strategic diplomatic importance.

Thailand don't give any assistance to this contingent, it is just going to make more negative press and much more noise than before the offer was made for them to be allowed to come.

Diplomatic niceties my backside.

With regards to the popularity of this case. This case is akin to the Maddie McCann case but with the difference of having loads of evidence screaming out that is being very noticably ignored. This is NOT going to go away and is just going to get worse for Cameron and Thailand.

Cameron wants this wrapped up properly and legally. There is an election next year and he is already up against the wall. If he fails with this, that can be the end of him.

You don't seem to be very well up on the ways of the world, diplomacy or reality.

I know a lot more than you think.

It is you who seems to be totally out of touch with reality here.

I will be proven right over the coming days.

Britain is not Thailand's little bitch. As you seem to think.

But please seeing as you are convinced this is going nowhere. Give the ThaiVisa community something concrete to base your theories on regarding diplomatic niceties and the UK not wanting to upset Thailand.

Did it bother the UK foreign office when Thailand asked the UK to give up that girl who committed lese majeste? I can recall they were very rude in their response to Thailand.

This case has 'human rights abuse' stamped all over it.... So which country is under the most pressure here?

[boomerangutang]

Can we send a care package of Bovril and spotted dick down to the Brits?

Either way, thanks fellows, for doing the work that needs to be done.

[NongKhaiKid]

Thailand is a member of INTERPOL. They have a right to investigate in Thailand. What does it take to get INTERPOL involved?

Membership of Interpol has nothing to do with a right to investigate.

Interpol is a clearing hose for information, requests for arrests / finding people and property etc and nothing else.

[JOC]

I find it interesting that some writers believe that having the British police here will be a waste of time. I would imagine these officers are the best of the best under strict orders from the PM, and if you think that a bunch of Thai police can hinder their technical investigation I think you been in Thailand to long. For one thing the new Thai PM is clever enough the best in years will open any means to properly solve this case. It's 2014 and if Thailand is to be taken seriouly on a world stage then they will learn and not hinden, after Billions of $$$ are at stake. The world is watching especially the ASEAN partners, it time Thailand wakes up, there's more to making a society and economy grow then just screwing tourist. Stop importing cheap China products, education the people and create jobs. India declared yesterday to stop the influx of China products which is causing lost of jobs.

So, I think you'll find a few more police with all of the decorations and ribbions on their shirt fired. Every cop in Thailand has a paratrooper jump pin on their chest, bullshit. Where do they buy these things. Teachers dressing like military officers, who dresses these people.

The point being International attention to this case and false sense of being special here in Thailand with vanish, its just a country with many many problems and the outside is coming, like it or not.

Meanwhile, on Planet Earth...................

[NongKhaiKid]

Let's hope the Embassy gave them a very full briefing on what to expect here, what they will be up against and what they MAY be allowed to do / see and most especially what is NOT going to happen.

If this all becomes a waste of time, barely going through the motions, I hope on their return home they are permitted to speak out fully on what did or did not happen. It's too important to have to observe diplomatic niceties so as not to upset Thailand.

You seem to think they are wasting their time here because Thailand is a very important country in the international community/

I don't think so... I would go as far as to say that Thailand has totally pissed the UK off, and the government are under pressure there, and will be put under even more 'uncomfortable' pressure by media and the British public to do something about Thailand.

Thailand is an insignificant sex tourism and hedonist destination. It is of no significant strategic diplomatic importance.

Thailand don't give any assistance to this contingent, it is just going to make more negative press and much more noise than before the offer was made for them to be allowed to come.

Diplomatic niceties my backside.

With regards to the popularity of this case. This case is akin to the Maddie McCann case but with the difference of having loads of evidence screaming out that is being very noticably ignored. This is NOT going to go away and is just going to get worse for Cameron and Thailand.

Cameron wants this wrapped up properly and legally. There is an election next year and he is already up against the wall. If he fails with this, that can be the end of him.

You don't seem to be very well up on the ways of the world, diplomacy or reality.

I know a lot more than you think.

It is you who seems to be totally out of touch with reality here.

I will be proven right over the coming days.

Britain is not Thailand's little bitch. As you seem to think.

But please seeing as you are convinced this is going nowhere. Give the ThaiVisa community something concrete to base your theories on regarding diplomatic niceties and the UK not wanting to upset Thailand.

Did it bother the UK foreign office when Thailand asked the UK to give up that girl who committed lese majeste? I can recall they were very rude in their response to Thailand.

This case has 'human rights abuse' stamped all over it.... So which country is under the most pressure here?

I take it you have studies this case from the off including the local and international media and all the posts on this forum.

Only now we get the benefit of your dubious opinions.