Prosecutors set to arraign Myanmar men for Koh Tao killings

[Si Thea01]

"He said police had backed their investigation report with witness statements, circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence."

We were told for a long time there were no witnesses..... magic, all of a sudden?

Circumstancial evidence? In a murder investigation?

We all know the forensics are not worth any tissue they are scribbled on.

I sure hope their defence lawyer has not been bought, and tears this case to pieces.

Just a little information. There are two types of evidence that can be used in a murder trial. Direct evidence: E.G. I was in the house and saw him stab the other man with a large knife.

Circumstantial Evidence; I was standing outside the house, heard a loud scream then this man runs from the house carrying a large knife covered in blood. To be convicted in a murder trial based on circumstantial evidence alone is most unlikely.

[MaxLee]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

something like money paid in advance by certain influential people,....

I have no idea as to the young men's guilt or innocence and if you knew anything about law enforcement then certain items of evidence cannot be disclosed for fear of prejudicing the defendants and not allowing them a fair trial.

Pray tell, how do you know money has been paid in advance? You don't, so why make a reckless statement? Just want to put your two bob's worth of unsubstantitaed B/S on the forum?

Let's just call it my common sense or sixth sense, something, that every halfways appropriate human being has AND which goes BEYOND Thai Law...

WHAT laws in Thailand???? Not for the rich and influential elite,... are you kidding?

Edited December 2, 2014 by MaxLee

[Jai Dee]

General reminder to all members:

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[Si Thea01]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

something like money paid in advance by certain influential people,....

I have no idea as to the young men's guilt or innocence and if you knew anything about law enforcement then certain items of evidence cannot be disclosed for fear of prejudicing the defendants and not allowing them a fair trial.

Pray tell, how do you know money has been paid in advance? You don't, so why make a reckless statement? Just want to put your two bob's worth of unsubstantitaed B/S on the forum?

if the RTP knew anything about law enforcement the crime scene would of been taped off and controlled properly and the head man and his so called hard men would of been nowhere near the crime scene.

You are one hundred percent correct. I have stated this a number of times in previous posts. I also indicated that certain procedures undertaken have left a lot to be desired.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Si Thea01

[Commerce]

Why is everyone hell bent on saying these 2 are innocent.

The General just had some of the top cops in Thailand arrested yet there isn't as much as a hint that his people have found anything untoward and don't think for one minute they haven't checked

I very much doubt if the General would hesitate to arrest anyone who has tampered with evidence...He wants the people behind him and if this was a stitch up and he exposed it, his popularity would go through the roof.

It seems that all we read on Thaivisa these days is post written by know it alls who spend half their lives telling us every policeman in Thailand is corrupt and in every case that comes up the evil Thai Police have an angle.

In the case at hand there is not one piece of evidence that suggests these guys are innocent. They have no alibi of being elsewhere, they admitted they did it but now with their lives on the line and a bunch of lawyers (the most honest people in Thailand) pulling the strings suddenly we here cries of "It wasn't me"c

Some one correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there a 3rd man, their friend who witnessed the attack?

"and a bunch of lawyers (the most honest people in Thailand)"

[MaxLee]

Lets put it plain and simple: MONEY is the law in the Land of Smiles...

[JOC]

Big party at the AC bar tonight for Nomsod and his gang and their mighty protectors!!

"We got away with it..........................again"

Makes me wanna puke!!

[lil fluffy clouds]

I feel my will to live in this sick dishonest world is waning.

[recycled]

Interesting thousands of posts of rumours ifs buts and maybes it amazes me that anyone who dares says something like jdinasia that circumstantial witnesses and DNA will most likely convict then suddenly he is queried whether he has a vested interest.

The very same people who conclude that these guys are innocent are first to cast the guilt stones at anyone with a different veiw.

And a bit of thai bashing for good measure.

The trial will go ahead and yet I haven't seen one headline about the British police observations in this case.

So either their happy with the investigation or just had a nice junket.

Do you really think anybody gives a toss what you think, you have proven time and time again that your credibility is zero. Have a nice day.

[PhillyBoy]

So where is the vaunted Scotland Yard comments??? Did they agree with the collection of evidence or not?? Why are you nay-sayers not up in arms over no comment from them? They collected the information according to the laws in Thailand......its not England, Australia, or America. The DNA will tell all. You conspiracy advocates need get a life and stop thinking everything is a government or police cover-up! STOP!!

[Mooner]

"He said police had backed their investigation report with witness statements, circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence."

We were told for a long time there were no witnesses..... magic, all of a sudden?

Circumstancial evidence? In a murder investigation?

We all know the forensics are not worth any tissue they are scribbled on.

I sure hope their defence lawyer has not been bought, and tears this case to pieces.

Witnesses, circumstantial evidence, DNA, etc will likely be enough to convict.

Only if the DNA match is the DNA found on Hannah and not just a DNA match to a bottle etc near the incident

[Micbozy]

Scapegoats

[recycled]

Why is everyone hell bent on saying these 2 are innocent.

The General just had some of the top cops in Thailand arrested yet there isn't as much as a hint that his people have found anything untoward and don't think for one minute they haven't checked

I very much doubt if the General would hesitate to arrest anyone who has tampered with evidence...He wants the people behind him and if this was a stitch up and he exposed it, his popularity would go through the roof.

It seems that all we read on Thaivisa these days is post written by know it alls who spend half their lives telling us every policeman in Thailand is corrupt and in every case that comes up the evil Thai Police have an angle.

In the case at hand there is not one piece of evidence that suggests these guys are innocent. They have no alibi of being elsewhere, they admitted they did it but now with their lives on the line and a bunch of lawyers (the most honest people in Thailand) pulling the strings suddenly we here cries of "It wasn't me"c

Some one correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there a 3rd man, their friend who witnessed the attack?

"and a bunch of lawyers (the most honest people in Thailand)"

The General will always back his mates, he knows he will need them at a later date. As for the top cops you refer to, they are from a different camp. This powder puff of a leader couldn't give two shites about the 2B lads as previously stated by many it is face saving for the illiterate elite that matters.

[Suffinator]

Any news from the British police? Can't remember when their report is due to be published.

[Si Thea01]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

something like money paid in advance by certain influential people,....

I have no idea as to the young men's guilt or innocence and if you knew anything about law enforcement then certain items of evidence cannot be disclosed for fear of prejudicing the defendants and not allowing them a fair trial.

Pray tell, how do you know money has been paid in advance? You don't, so why make a reckless statement? Just want to put your two bob's worth of unsubstantitaed B/S on the forum?

Let's just call it my common sense or sixth sense, something, that every halfways appropriate human being has AND which goes BEYOND Thai Law...

WHAT laws in Thailand???? Not for the rich and influential elite,... are you kidding?

Common sense is not very common unfortunately. What is a halfways appropriate human being? Am I kidding about laws in Thailand and that they are not for the rich, influential and elite or are you referring to the statement issued by police because I made no reference to these matters?

Edited December 2, 2014 by Si Thea01

[Mooner]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

Why would evidence not be allowed to be made public? Lets hope when the trial starts that it is transparent and information is publicly shared so we can all see what a great job the RTP have done.

[sweatalot]

The BIB said the case they first presented was ' perfect ' but having been told to produce more evidence or clarify some points on more than one occasion the prosecutors now say the case is ' solid ' so maybe they can actually start a trial and let's see what this perfect, solid case is made of unless of course the two accused have' decided ' or been ' persuaded ' to plead guilty.

The prosecutor felt it necessary to say that under the law some items of law can't be disclosed publicly, what a pity this legal requirement meant nothing to the BIB who from the outset never stopped talking. Surely someone from the prosecutors office should have told them to shut up if that's possible.

In some jurisdictions the non-stop comments from the police could jeopardize the prosecutions case but TIT.

The BIB said the case they first presented was ' perfect ' but having been told to produce more evidence

I am afraid now they PRODUCED some evidence.

They have been given time enough

[wabothai]

Bunch of peacocks, utterly discusting.

[Longstaff]

I still don't really understand why Thai authorities tell the public what they are going to do rather than just getting on with it? Seems to me a disproportionate amount of time is spent by an awful lot of police in front of cameras, rather than in back rooms meticulously acquiring and sorting through evidence.

There seems to be two sides to saving face, both driven by the sense of self worth; on the one hand any opportunity is taken to seek public glory / play the hero by parading in front of the media; on the other is the inability to accept then effectively deal with your mistakes.

Mate of mine is a detective in organised crime in the UK. Before that he did cold cases and solved many with new technology / DNA evidence. He's worked / helped bust some big cases. Never been in front of a camera or journalist in over 20 years but enormously satisfied with knowing he's done a great job...

[wabothai]

Mr. Police you really think that the world believes one thing you are saying or admitting. You blew it.

i would like to refer to your beloved general who now is crying in jail.

the photo with your peacock attitude is utterly discusting.

[razer]

Guilty or not, the Thai police and Thai justice system has lost face in front of the world. Because of the incompetency made public, it seems likely everyone will believe the real murderers will never be known. A tragedy for the parents. The PM should have stepped in sooner and invite UK police inspectors observe and advise. If he had done so this whole event would not seem like such a sham.

[Sviss Geez]

I am no defender of what passes for a justice system here but:

All cases are drawn out because the Procedure Code is hopeless. Adjournments the norm because it is a delaying tactic and there are no costs to it - in the West the adjourning party will usually pay the other sides cost of an adjournment but here one side can adjourn for no cost and little reason. Also the whole trial management is a joke when compared to more efficient systems.

It is usual for the press to limit reporting during a trial to avoid prejudice to either side. The fact cases take years here rather blunts the media story because people want breaking news not an outcome of something started 5 years ago.

Witnesses are examined, cross examined and re-examined just as in the West if the judge allows the witnesses into evidence. Perversion of justice can and does occur where witnesses are refused as that evidence is very hard to introduce at appeal or Dika appeal stage. That is why a judge can be bribed at the first stage and the effect last through the appeal stages. Retrials are also very difficult where a miscarriage of justice has occurred because the judiciary do not like to admit any fault in their judges or processes in normal Thsi fashion.

"The fact cases take years here..."

That is not a fact at all. Some cases do get drawn out, the majority don't.

[alfalfa19]

They have no choice but to prosecute. Huge loss of face if charges are withdrawn. Can't wait for the not guilty verdict!

My money is on an open and shut case. They are already guilty in the eyes of the law. Case closed. Sad. I, for one, will never visit KT nor will I recommend others to do so. My own personal boycott, for what its worth.

Same here, I will never visit that place, and I wish others would follow suit, but I am powerless over other people. Now I catch myself wondering if the same kind of atrocities and organized crime happen on other "island paradises". I seem to recall other cases of hideous violence which were quickly "solved" by the arrest of one or two burmese laborers. I have a couple hundred thai friends on facebook, and not one of them believes this farce.

[Baerboxer]

so the police are saying that if the parents become co-plaintiffs that they can find enough evidence and witnesses to convict them too even though they were in a different country at the time - sounds about right

Plaintiff / Defendant.

Not the same.

[Frank James]

If these boys can get top class legal representation, on the level of OJ Simpson's Dream Team, and a trial by jury, this case will be shown to be a railroad job and an international travesty.

[joebrown]

"He said police had backed their investigation report with witness statements, circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence."

We were told for a long time there were no witnesses..... magic, all of a sudden?

Circumstancial evidence? In a murder investigation?

We all know the forensics are not worth any tissue they are scribbled on.

I sure hope their defence lawyer has not been bought, and tears this case to pieces.

Witnesses, circumstantial evidence, DNA, etc will likely be enough to convict.

Only if the DNA match is the DNA found on Hannah and not just a DNA match to a bottle etc near the incident

Sorry, I didn't think there was a DNA issue with a bottle, only a cigarette butt, the same brand as smoked by the B2. The serious doubts I have are that (1) the forensic integrity of the crime scene was corrupted, and therefore open to abuse,(2) the police originally stated there were 2 murder weapons, but now there is only a hoe? (3) The Roti interpreter was interviewed and stated the B2 said a large wine bottle was used in the attack? (4) The re-enactment of the murders was 'directed' by the RTP, because the B2 appeared clueless as to what actually happened and had to be 'coached'. There are many more inconsistencies, which hopefully a 'vigorous' defence lawyer(s) will persue, if allowed to do so.

[Sviss Geez]

I have no idea as to the young men's guilt or innocence and if you knew anything about law enforcement then certain items of evidence cannot be disclosed for fear of prejudicing the defendants and not allowing them a fair trial.

Pray tell, how do you know money has been paid in advance? You don't, so why make a reckless statement? Just want to put your two bob's worth of unsubstantitaed B/S on the forum?

Let's just call it my common sense or sixth sense, something, that every halfways appropriate human being has AND which goes BEYOND Thai Law...

WHAT laws in Thailand???? Not for the rich and influential elite,... are you kidding?

"Let's just call it my common sense or sixth sense, something, that every halfways appropriate human being has AND which goes BEYOND Thai Law..."

Well that statement makes sense. There is no way anyone could say that that was illogical, banal nonsense is there?

[Sviss Geez]

Big party at the AC bar tonight for Nomsod and his gang and their mighty protectors!!

"We got away with it..........................again"

Makes me wanna puke!!

Is that what they were saying or is it just your imagination in action again? No-one's got away with anything yet...

[Baerboxer]

<snip>

Poor show that people hi-jack this case for political comment. Do you really think anything would've been any different under the previous corrupt regime? They showed zero interest in reforming the police, or improving the justice system. It made matters worse when they used investigative offices for their own benefit.

The issue is the often inept, ineffective and sometimes corrupt police completely bodged things up. Local officers were way out of their depth, local headmen and people of influence told them what to do, and then a procession of senior officers made contradictory reports to the press which stoked up all the theorists.

Power to the people - look at history. That usually includes "peoples' courts" and show trials that have little to do with justice and rarely delivers an improved society to all but replaces one elite with another.

Democracy is a fragile flower which won't bloom without a robust justice system and law enforcement which is fair to all, unbiased and corruption free. Thailand is light years away from that.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Jai Dee
Reference to deleted post

[Sviss Geez]

Interesting thousands of posts of rumours ifs buts and maybes it amazes me that anyone who dares says something like jdinasia that circumstantial witnesses and DNA will most likely convict then suddenly he is queried whether he has a vested interest.

The very same people who conclude that these guys are innocent are first to cast the guilt stones at anyone with a different veiw.

And a bit of thai bashing for good measure.

The trial will go ahead and yet I haven't seen one headline about the British police observations in this case.

So either their happy with the investigation or just had a nice junket.

Do you really think anybody gives a toss what you think, you have proven time and time again that your credibility is zero. Have a nice day.

Yet his credibility is higher up the scale than yours.