HPV / Warts / Treatment / HPV Vaccine Questions

[fauxrang]

I have some questions of various nature - I hope some people can help.

So I recently came down with some warts, and I am rather surprised, as the girl that infected me was from *6 months* before the warts appeared. The only other possibility is a girl from about *7 days* before the warts appeared. Which does not seem possible, from what I have read. The warts are not really even on my penis - more down at the bottom, the part where a condom would not cover anyway. I am really really annoyed... but the Dr I went to see assured me, "don't worry, this is very common!". I am aware that virtually everyone has HPV - but I do not think virtually everyone has **genital warts**.

Anyway - this Dr wanted to use the electro treatment, and said it would be about 4-5k baht... which I thought was a bit ridiculous (after reading of 2k baht treatments on here). So I opted for the cheap liquid that you apply every night. I used it for 5 nights - and am not really pleased... I have burn marks around the warts, and while the warts are probably going away - I wish I just opted for a more instant removal treatment. I stopped using it 2 nights ago.

My plan is to go to Saint Louis, and get the instant (freeze?) removal. And then I would plan to follow this up with... Vitamin C tablets, and Aldara.

Questions:

1. Does St Louis offer all removal treatments - ice/fire/electric? And if so - are any treatments less/more likely to cause scarring? Are any treatments less/more likely to prevent a future outbreak?

2. Does anyone have advice on immune system boosters, other than Vitamin C and Aldara?

3. Does anyone use Aldara down there - even with no outbreak? Just a regular regime of applying it to prevent anything from forming?

^ I will ask a Dr these same questions, but I would like to hear impartial opinions from people that are not in the process of getting $$$ from me.

4. My main concern - I could have an outbreak in the future. If I were to meet a girl that I really like next week/month/whatever... I would want to tell her about my recent HPV issue... but should I press the issue of the HPV vaccine to her? How prevalent is the vaccine here? Are most well-to-do Thai girls in their early-mid 20s getting the vaccine? I am aware that the vaccine is slightly controversial - but how can a guy that recently had an outbreak enter a relationship with a girl - and not want her to have the vaccine? Am I just supposed to pray that I never get another outbreak? And keep my mouth shut?

Giving a girl warts 3-6 months into a relationship seems like a sure-fire way to kill the relationship - on top of giving a girl something that is far more harmful to her than it is to me.

Any help/advice?

- worried guy

[meatboy]

count yourself lucky thats all you got.

[AyG]

The virus can live on the skin for months or years without symptoms. Only when there's a small cut or abrasion can the virus get in and start a wart, so there's no way of knowing how long ago you contracted the virus.

For genital warts Aldara is often the first choice since it's the least likely to leave significant scarring. Failing that, "laser" treatment is usually the next option. (It's technically not a laser, but most people call it that.)

Freezing and keratolytics (which dissolve the wart) are not particularly effective. I have a wart on a finger which has been frozen 5 times at fortnightly intervals by a doctor and treated with a keratolytic twice a day. It's still there. I certainly wouldn't want either treatment on my naughty bits.

Aldara is applied to a wart and helps the body's immune system recognise it as alien and target it for attack. It doesn't kill the virus. There would be absolutely no point in applying Aldara as a preventative measure.

Since the virus will almost certainly still be present on your skin after the wart has gone, a wart can appear at any time and you will remain infectious.

The HPV vaccine only protects against certain strains of HPV - specifically those most likely to cause cancer. It's not targeted at the strains which cause warts.

[Sheryl]

As above. Plus would add re your last question that the vaccine is only recommended for girls/young women prior to the onset (or very early into it) of sexual activity, not for women who have already been sexually active for sometime. Any woman you would likely to get involved with would probably not fit the criteria for the vaccine.

Useful info here http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/common-clinicians/InsertGW.pdf

[inbangkok]

It is never too late to get the HPV vaccine. I cannot stress this enough. Ideally, getting it before ever having sex is advised.... But it is never too late....

And there are 2 different HPV vaccines. Gardasil indeed protects against two of the strain which cause warts.

Edited December 9, 2014 by inbangkok

[PMNL]

Hence Gardasil is also recommended for boys for that particular reason.

[fauxrang]

I did go to Saint Louis today - the Dr was unable to do any procedure due to the burn marks from the Verrumal (ugh) - so I now have an antibiotic cream for that... and I am scheduled to have them frozen off next week. So 2 weeks of wasted time.

"Gardasil indeed protects against two of the strain which cause warts."

Yes, this is what I had read - hence I would want a future girlfriend/wife/whatever to have the vaccine. I am still curious as to what % of girls in their 20s (my dating rage) in BKK have had the vaccine.

"Freezing ... not particularly effective."

Well I hope that is not true...

As for scarring - the issue isn't even really on my penis... its down more in the pubic hair line, so I am not particularly concerned if there is some very minor scar from the freezing method. It's possible I already accomplished that much with this crap Verrumal.

[cdmtdm]

PM sent

[OnMyWay2]

Apple cider vinegar look it up on youtube.

[inbangkok]

Hence Gardasil is also recommended for boys for that particular reason.

100% correct

[Globalist]

In hot climates, MCV is actually at least as likely to be the cause as HPV.

Both types of warts are harmless though, and treatment (if needed), is the same.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Globalist

[liddelljohn]

I usually remove warts with a soldering iron , quick and effective ,, heals up within a week ,learned the technique from an army medic , cheaper than laser ,

pain is an issue but its over quickly , antibiotic cream applied after ,,you have to go deep enough to kill the roots

not for the faint hearted

[MilesofSmiles]

Aldara works, just give it a few days.

[rhythmworx]

The level of misinformation regarding health issues on this forum is disgraceful.

Anyone who tells you that Aldara is the 1st go to treatment for genital warts which is speaking absolute nonsense (I wouldn't like to have your doctor).

Others who compare normal warts to genital warts....

I will give you advice from 1st hand experience stay away from Aldara, do some research on it.

Ask yourself this :- Do I want to take a drug that has passed basic labrat tests that will permanently change my DNA cellular structure with the risk of causing my immune system to destroy healthy cells it requires for it's own well being?

It's primarily a cancer treatment, if your dying well you will try anything bevause you have nothing to lose that your not already losing, but you just have genital warts your not dying.

Get them burned off and follow up with podophyllotoxin that's the 1st port of call anyone with any medical knowledge will give you, unless they want to get the prescription bonuses like some doctors do.

Legal drug dealers in white coats.

Edited December 23, 2014 by rhythmworx

[fauxrang]

Thanks guys.

Does anyone know where one could get 'female condoms' in Bangkok? I am interested in trying this - as I mentioned earlier, my issue is/was not even really on my penis.. just down in the area not covered by a condom anyway. I am very interested in trying a female condom, as it seems to have a big circular area that protects her nearby/outer region (and mine, by proxy).

[fauxrang]

Just bumping myself... I went to a Topps, 3 different Boots, and 2 other lesser name pharmacies... none of them carry female condoms, and I am pretty sure at least a couple of the stores were just pretending they even knew what a female condom was. ("tung phooying")

None of them knew where they could be purchased. Maybe I can get 'prescribed' them at a hospital??

[Rhys]

Trust you have taken care of this.. go with the electric option.. man up, burns off.. wise up more.. move on more carefully..

[fauxrang]

^ LOL... I did cryotherapy, but I would say it is somewhat inconclusive as to whether they are gone or not. I have a follow-up visit coming up.

Regardless - I would like to pick up some female condoms to try in the future - as I mentioned, many times, my bumps were not in an area a condom would cover.

[fauxrang]

I am not finding any recommendation for electrocautery on here. St Louis is often mentioned as a good + cheap option for treatment - but they seem to be only interested in cryotherapy.

If I need future treatment - I would rather try electrocautery for a change.

[Sheryl]

Female condoms are not available in Thailand AFAIK.

[inbangkok]

Female condoms are not available in Thailand AFAIK.

Stunning! You think with the teenage pregnancy rate here they would be airdropping every type of contraceptive imaginable across the country.......

[fauxrang]

Still hoping for recommendations on electrocautery - or I could just show up to any other hospital.

[lopburi3]

Believe most places prefer to use CO2 laser to burn off. At least that has been my experience for back and arm areas. This is really very effective and painless.

[jpinx]

I've done a bit of searching and come up with Veregen/Polyphenon E/Sinecatechins, Aldara/Zyclara cream, Imiquimod, Condylox/Podofilox/podophyllotoxin, Wartec/warticon, Organic Apple cider vinegar, Olive leaf extract, Hypnotism, all as treatments for genital warts. They are certainly not the same as other warts, and different treatment is needed so the Warticon might not be correct.

Aldara is made by 3M Healthcare, Loughborough; England, so it is presumably cleared by the UK's FDA. Immune-boosting is a common treatment in different forms. Inoculations were the same - a mild dose of the problem was injected to stimulate specific white blood cells which then remain in the blood for some time after. Not sure how the HPV virus is eliminated by the body, or what kind of inoculation does that.

Burning off in various ways seems to vary in success as much as the treatments, but with the additional risk of scarring. The warts can come back at any time if the virus is still there.

To bury a soldering iron into the head of your penis would take a certain mentality, and to not go deep enough to kill the root will leave a scar with a wart growing through it.

Edited January 18, 2015 by jpinx

[Maailmanmatti]

A bit of cryo followed by podophyllotoxin is what the docs gave me and worked like a charm.

The warts made a comeback some months later and couldn't find any podophyllotoxin in Sri Lanka so a local doc (didn't seem to know much about the problem) suggested salicylic acid, worked just as well and was much cheaper, but felt more burning. Not a problem since the warts were not in the most sensitive spots. If yours are at the sensitive areas, I'd say get podophyllotoxin.

[INDI12]

go to amorn electric shop or any big electronic shop. get a can of 0 freeze.liquid nitrogen. used for cooling off components when soldering. same shit doc uses. 95 bht a can. had a plantar wart on foot for years.. gone.... some skin tags under arms..... gone..... and like you i had a wart in the same area as you....gone.....

use the straw that comes with the can and carefully slowly hit the area (s). it will blister up and fall off.. no big deal if you ask me... but im no doc worked for me and friends also

[AyG]

go to amorn electric shop or any big electronic shop. get a can of 0 freeze.liquid nitrogen. used for cooling off components when soldering.

I have no idea what product you're talking about, but it most definitely isn't liquid nitrogen. Liquid nitrogen isn't something you can just buy in a can. Liquid nitrogen is extremely cold and is normally carried in vacuum flasks.

[fauxrang]

I will give a lengthy update here... I am in a very good mood.

Basic timeline up to now...

Day -180: I have sex with a girl. Have a major STD issue (that ultimately goes unidentified). Take lots of tests, and lots of pills - zero answers. Symptoms slowly go away-ish over 5-6 months. (I made a lengthy thread on this forum about it)

Day -7: Finally have sex again.

Day 0: I notice barely-distinguishable bumps around the base of my penis. I am in a different (lesser developed) country at this time. Do some googling to look at pictures of genital warts and such... nothing seems to match - including the fact that, according to everything I am reading, the warts will show 1-3 months after contact. I was completely abistinent during that time period.

Day 14: I am back in Bangkok. The bumps are still there, although not really changing. I return to Urologist #1 at Hospital X (where I went after testing negative for everything at the Red Cross 180+ days earlier). He verifies that the bumps are warts. He offers to perform electrocautery, or will prescribe me the acid to use on my own. He estimates the procedure may cost 4-5k baht. I was a bit unsure if a Urologist would be the best option to cauterize warts... and I had already read threads on this forum about having cryo treatments at Saint Louis for 1-2k. So I took the acid.

Day 14-19: I use the acid. I hate it. It is definitely doing something - but it is leaving big black burn marks - and because the warts were down in my pubic hair line, the acid was all clumped up and I could not clean it off every day. Each day, I was essentially applying acid on top of the previous day(s) acid/hair/scar buildup. It was sillyness. (granted I should have shaved/trimmed down the hair before the first application, I messed up).

Day 21: Go to a Dermatologist at Saint Loius. The dermatologist will not treat me, as the wounds from my acid treatment are still open. Dr gives me some antibiotic.

Day 28: Return to St Louis. Do the cryotherapy. Tells me to come back in 14 days.

Day 33: Scabs are falling off. I am not satisfied with the results.

Day 35: I return to Saint Louis. Dr tells me to go away - come back in 1 more week. I indicate some spots that I think were not sufficiently treated. Dr says that is not clear. Come back in 1 week.

Day 42: More cryo (in the spots that I already indicated were *not* treated yet). Dr refuses to use the cryo on a spot on my testicle that I am requesting she treat. Tells me to return in 2 weeks if I have a problem. Hah - right.

Day 56: I return to Hospital X. The testicle spot is still there, and there are others near it. Both original bump areas have small/reforming warts still present. I now have something developing on a finger (jokes about touching myself are relevant, and warranted, here). Urologist #1 cauterizes anything and everything I desire on my testicles and base of penis. Doesn't want to cauterize my finger.

Day 56: I go home. That night I see some very small issues that neither I or the Dr could see. I am talking tiny stuff.

Day 59: Return to Hospital X. Urologist #1 is not there. Urologist #2 cauterizes new spots. Cauterizes my finger.

Day 59-60: I go home. I see new spots. Again. Super tiny, and very hard to see without dramatic lighting. I put acid on it for 2 nights.

Day 61: Screw it - return to Hospital X for the 3rd time in a week. Urologist #2 cauterizes 2 new spots. Day 59 and Day 61 involve cauterizing things that are now creeping up the skin of my shaft... This stuff is spreading by contact, imo, so I choose to just keep returning and cauterize the hell out of my penis - to prevent any more contact-spread. My penis looks like a warzone.

*******************

So as of this moment, it is possibly the first time I am wart-free in 61 days (I won't know for sure until the wounds heal). If I could do it all again, I would just have them cauterized on the Day 1, and I suspect it all would have been over. I am extremely unimpressed with my time at Saint Louis - both with cryotherapy, in general, and with the Drs unwillingness to cooperate. 2 of my 4 visits to Saint Louis ended with me paying for the Dr to *not* treat me... and the other 2 visits were ineffective. And the cryotherapy made me feel ill for a couple days, both times. Super.

*******************

***Lastly***, the reason why I am in a good mood... Urologist #2 mentions, casually, during our final conversation, that I don't have 'genital warts' - that I just have 'skin warts'. What??? I asked him to verify... "Yes, this is just a common skin wart, like the skin on your arm or hand. You do not have any warts on the glans/membrane of your penis. This could come from a dirty towel, or anything." W.T.F. I did a ton of traveling during that 1-3 month period (and zero sex). I used towels given to me many times... so its entirely possible... although the location sure looks like it would come from grinding into a girl who had warts on the outside of her vagina. But again, I had no sex during this time period.

Note: During my consultations with the Dermatologist and Urologist #1 about my timeline (no sex) + the general timeline of genital warts... neither one felt it was pertinent to inform me that I *don't* have genital warts. Both simply agreed that the timing was odd - and that it must have been from the girl 180 days earlier, as 7 days is too fast.

If someone wants to send me crashing down to earth - and tell me that I *do*, in fact, have genital warts - please do so gently. I suppose that depends on the definition of 'genital warts'. If I have common skin warts in the pubic hair line of my genitals - this does not qualify as 'genital warts' (according to Urologist #2).

*******************

As of a couple days ago... I am taking 1mg L-Lysine, and 1mg Cod Liver Oil. I have been taking 1mg Vitamine C for 45 days, or so. If anyone has other advice, please share. I have zero interest in having another 'outbreak'.

edit: I don't smoke, rarely drink, eat very well, and am physically active.

Edited January 25, 2015 by fauxrang

[Globalist]

I will give a lengthy update here... I am in a very good mood.

Basic timeline up to now...

Day -180: I have sex with a girl. Have a major STD issue (that ultimately goes unidentified). Take lots of tests, and lots of pills - zero answers. Symptoms slowly go away-ish over 5-6 months. (I made a lengthy thread on this forum about it)

Day -7: Finally have sex again.

Day 0: I notice barely-distinguishable bumps around the base of my penis. I am in a different (lesser developed) country at this time. Do some googling to look at pictures of genital warts and such... nothing seems to match - including the fact that, according to everything I am reading, the warts will show 1-3 months after contact. I was completely abistinent during that time period.

Day 14: I am back in Bangkok. The bumps are still there, although not really changing. I return to Urologist #1 at Hospital X (where I went after testing negative for everything at the Red Cross 180+ days earlier). He verifies that the bumps are warts. He offers to perform electrocautery, or will prescribe me the acid to use on my own. He estimates the procedure may cost 4-5k baht. I was a bit unsure if a Urologist would be the best option to cauterize warts... and I had already read threads on this forum about having cryo treatments at Saint Louis for 1-2k. So I took the acid.

Day 14-19: I use the acid. I hate it. It is definitely doing something - but it is leaving big black burn marks - and because the warts were down in my pubic hair line, the acid was all clumped up and I could not clean it off every day. Each day, I was essentially applying acid on top of the previous day(s) acid/hair/scar buildup. It was sillyness. (granted I should have shaved/trimmed down the hair before the first application, I messed up).

Day 21: Go to a Dermatologist at Saint Loius. The dermatologist will not treat me, as the wounds from my acid treatment are still open. Dr gives me some antibiotic.

Day 28: Return to St Louis. Do the cryotherapy. Tells me to come back in 14 days.

Day 33: Scabs are falling off. I am not satisfied with the results.

Day 35: I return to Saint Louis. Dr tells me to go away - come back in 1 more week. I indicate some spots that I think were not sufficiently treated. Dr says that is not clear. Come back in 1 week.

Day 42: More cryo (in the spots that I already indicated were *not* treated yet). Dr refuses to use the cryo on a spot on my testicle that I am requesting she treat. Tells me to return in 2 weeks if I have a problem. Hah - right.

Day 56: I return to Hospital X. The testicle spot is still there, and there are others near it. Both original bump areas have small/reforming warts still present. I now have something developing on a finger (jokes about touching myself are relevant, and warranted, here). Urologist #1 cauterizes anything and everything I desire on my testicles and base of penis. Doesn't want to cauterize my finger.

Day 56: I go home. That night I see some very small issues that neither I or the Dr could see. I am talking tiny stuff.

Day 59: Return to Hospital X. Urologist #1 is not there. Urologist #2 cauterizes new spots. Cauterizes my finger.

Day 59-60: I go home. I see new spots. Again. Super tiny, and very hard to see without dramatic lighting. I put acid on it for 2 nights.

Day 61: Screw it - return to Hospital X for the 3rd time in a week. Urologist #2 cauterizes 2 new spots. Day 59 and Day 61 involve cauterizing things that are now creeping up the skin of my shaft... This stuff is spreading by contact, imo, so I choose to just keep returning and cauterize the hell out of my penis - to prevent any more contact-spread. My penis looks like a warzone.

*******************

So as of this moment, it is possibly the first time I am wart-free in 61 days (I won't know for sure until the wounds heal). If I could do it all again, I would just have them cauterized on the Day 1, and I suspect it all would have been over. I am extremely unimpressed with my time at Saint Louis - both with cryotherapy, in general, and with the Drs unwillingness to cooperate. 2 of my 4 visits to Saint Louis ended with me paying for the Dr to *not* treat me... and the other 2 visits were ineffective. And the cryotherapy made me feel ill for a couple days, both times. Super.

*******************

***Lastly***, the reason why I am in a good mood... Urologist #2 mentions, casually, during our final conversation, that I don't have 'genital warts' - that I just have 'skin warts'. What??? I asked him to verify... "Yes, this is just a common skin wart, like the skin on your arm or hand. You do not have any warts on the glans/membrane of your penis. This could come from a dirty towel, or anything." W.T.F. I did a ton of traveling during that 1-3 month period (and zero sex). I used towels given to me many times... so its entirely possible... although the location sure looks like it would come from grinding into a girl who had warts on the outside of her vagina. But again, I had no sex during this time period.

Note: During my consultations with the Dermatologist and Urologist #1 about my timeline (no sex) + the general timeline of genital warts... neither one felt it was pertinent to inform me that I *don't* have genital warts. Both simply agreed that the timing was odd - and that it must have been from the girl 180 days earlier, as 7 days is too fast.

If someone wants to send me crashing down to earth - and tell me that I *do*, in fact, have genital warts - please do so gently. I suppose that depends on the definition of 'genital warts'. If I have common skin warts in the pubic hair line of my genitals - this does not qualify as 'genital warts' (according to Urologist #2).

*******************

As of a couple days ago... I am taking 1mg L-Lysine, and 1mg Cod Liver Oil. I have been taking 1mg Vitamine C for 45 days, or so. If anyone has other advice, please share. I have zero interest in having another 'outbreak'.

edit: I don't smoke, rarely drink, eat very well, and am physically active.

Entirely consistent with an earlier comment I made to your OP:

In hot climates, MCV is actually at least as likely to be the cause as HPV.

Both types of warts are harmless though, and treatment (if needed), is the same.

[TerryLH]

Does anybody know the cost of the HPV vaccinations?