Koh Tao murder trial date brought forward by 2 months

[jdinasia]

boycott that dirty mafia infested koh tao

No thanks

[transam]

boycott that dirty mafia infested koh tao

No thanks

We KNOW you wouldn't..............Believe me, we know...............

[Dogmatix]

Not exactly fair to defence. They can't possibly review the prosecutors files in time to mount any robust defence. It is only 2 weeks away.

Actually it says the prosecutor will present witness and evidence 7 days before the start of trial. So that will be the first defense will know what they are fighting. Defense will have 7 days for 1 lawyer to get through 900 pages and prepare.

Unlike in Western jurisdictions, the defence has to present its list of witnesses and evidence without being able to see the prosecution's. So it has to mount a defence without knowing what it is defending against and has very little time to do anything.

When influential defendants go on trial, you can be sure the start of the trial will be delayed for at least two years to give the public time to forget about the case. Meanwhile the defendants are out on bail and can easily flee the country, if they want.

[jdinasia]

Not exactly fair to defence. They can't possibly review the prosecutors files in time to mount any robust defence. It is only 2 weeks away.

Actually it says the prosecutor will present witness and evidence 7 days before the start of trial. So that will be the first defense will know what they are fighting. Defense will have 7 days for 1 lawyer to get through 900 pages and prepare.

Unlike in Western jurisdictions, the defence has to present its list of witnesses and evidence without being able to see the prosecution's. So it has to mount a defence without knowing what it is defending against and has very little time to do anything.

When influential defendants go on trial, you can be sure the start of the trial will be delayed for at least two years to give the public time to forget about the case. Meanwhile the defendants are out on bail and can easily flee the country, if they want.

The prosecution gets no more discovery than the defense. I prefer a system which allows discovery.

[jabis]

Not exactly fair to defence. They can't possibly review the prosecutors files in time to mount any robust defence. It is only 2 weeks away.

Actually it says the prosecutor will present witness and evidence 7 days before the start of trial. So that will be the first defense will know what they are fighting. Defense will have 7 days for 1 lawyer to get through 900 pages and prepare.

Unlike in Western jurisdictions, the defence has to present its list of witnesses and evidence without being able to see the prosecution's. So it has to mount a defence without knowing what it is defending against and has very little time to do anything.

When influential defendants go on trial, you can be sure the start of the trial will be delayed for at least two years to give the public time to forget about the case. Meanwhile the defendants are out on bail and can easily flee the country, if they want.

The prosecution gets no more discovery than the defense. I prefer a system which allows discovery.

What about the Thai Law regarding Criminal Procedure Code?

Criminal Procedure Code

Section 8 From the moment the charge is preferred, the defendant shall be entitled to:

1. Access to an expeditious, regular and fair trial.

2. Appoint a counsel to represent him in the course of a preliminary hearing or trial in the first instance, as well as in the second instance and the last resort.

3. Take advice of a counsel or a person to become his counsel tête-à-tête.

4. Inspect any article adduced as evidence and make a copy or take a photograph thereof.

5. Inspect the court’s file of preliminary hearing or trial and make a copy thereof or request for a certified copy thereof with payment of costs, save where such costs are exempted by a judicial order.

6. Inspect or copy the plea he has given during the inquiry or the supplementary document thereof.

Should the defendant be represented by a counsel, the counsel shall be entitled to the same aforementioned rights as the defendant.From the moment the charge is entered by the public prosecutor in court, the victim shall be entitled to paragraph 1 (6) as on a par with the defendant.

[BoristheBlade]

Two innocent young lives slaughtered in Koh Tao

And prepare for two more innocent lives to be taken by the Thai authorities.

Edited December 10, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[stephen terry]

I am totally disgusted that the wishes of the victims' families, i.e. that a fair and transparent trial, is not going to happen. There is no disclosure, which is unfair to both sides and is hardly transparent.

Add to that the diminished time frame for the defence to submit documents to the court is anything but fair. Justice is not going to happen in this case. I don't even think that the authorities consider what the outside world thinks - they just don't give a monkey's, except to finalise this case. The B2 will be found guilty. End of story - bleat about it, but nothing will change.

[BoristheBlade]

I can not imagine and hope I never have to experience what Hanna and David's families are going through.

But don't they want justice for their children?

Do they want vicious , evil murderers removed from the streets, so another mother and father don't have to experience the same loss?

Do they want two more innocent young lives to be taken, as in the two Burmese scape goats?

Please be brave and seek justice for you children.

I am totally disgusted that the wishes of the victims' families, i.e. that a fair and transparent trial, is not going to happen. There is no disclosure, which is unfair to both sides and is hardly transparent.

Add to that the diminished time frame for the defence to submit documents to the court is anything but fair. Justice is not going to happen in this case. I don't even think that the authorities consider what the outside world thinks - they just don't give a monkey's, except to finalise this case. The B2 will be found guilty. End of story - bleat about it, but nothing will change.

Edited December 10, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[Wilsonandson]

A very sensetive case not only for the accused but for the inhabitants of Koh Toa who will have more of their beloved island in the international news, negative for all. I apologise for my offence post but only wanted to support the islanders who have lived through this tragedy, don't take it out on them was all I wanted to say.

[peecee]

I hope they remember to tell the defendants so they can be there this time.

Yes, it's probably brought forward so that it is completed before the UK inquest gets going.

Guilty, executed and forgotten. mai pen rai

The inquest will be opened & adjourned whilst the trial proceeds; thereafter the verdict will be unlawful killings by person or persons unknown if there's a not guilty verdict.

[jdinasia]

Not exactly fair to defence. They can't possibly review the prosecutors files in time to mount any robust defence. It is only 2 weeks away.

Actually it says the prosecutor will present witness and evidence 7 days before the start of trial. So that will be the first defense will know what they are fighting. Defense will have 7 days for 1 lawyer to get through 900 pages and prepare.

Unlike in Western jurisdictions, the defence has to present its list of witnesses and evidence without being able to see the prosecution's. So it has to mount a defence without knowing what it is defending against and has very little time to do anything.

When influential defendants go on trial, you can be sure the start of the trial will be delayed for at least two years to give the public time to forget about the case. Meanwhile the defendants are out on bail and can easily flee the country, if they want.

The prosecution gets no more discovery than the defense. I prefer a system which allows discovery.

What about the Thai Law regarding Criminal Procedure Code?

Criminal Procedure Code

Section 8 From the moment the charge is preferred, the defendant shall be entitled to:

1. Access to an expeditious, regular and fair trial.

2. Appoint a counsel to represent him in the course of a preliminary hearing or trial in the first instance, as well as in the second instance and the last resort.

3. Take advice of a counsel or a person to become his counsel tête-à-tête.

4. Inspect any article adduced as evidence and make a copy or take a photograph thereof.

5. Inspect the court’s file of preliminary hearing or trial and make a copy thereof or request for a certified copy thereof with payment of costs, save where such costs are exempted by a judicial order.

6. Inspect or copy the plea he has given during the inquiry or the supplementary document thereof.

Should the defendant be represented by a counsel, the counsel shall be entitled to the same aforementioned rights as the defendant.From the moment the charge is entered by the public prosecutor in court, the victim shall be entitled to paragraph 1 (6) as on a par with the defendant.

What about it? Already covered by my answer.

[wilcopops]

The prosecution must have solid evidence if they are so confident! So im presuming they have the following.

DNA on Hannah matching one or both of the suspects

DNA/fingerprints of one or both of the suspects on the hoe.

CCTV footage of one or both suspects walking around Koh Tao after the attack.

Witness testimony of bruising or wounds the following day after the attack. Remember the coroner said David's hands showed signs of a fighting back. Must of been hitting something!

If they don't have any of the above what do they have? Guess we will have to wait and see.

Yet another poster who has missed the point - it is the procedure and processes that have rendered any trial a farce regardless of what "evidence" is produced.

In the states or UK this trial would never have taken place.

I haven't missed the point! I am a keen supporter of the B2(Don't think they did it and if they did they were not alone!) My post is what should be expected for this case to go ahead.

It doesn't MATTER if they did it or not - that is NOT the point!

[anon022]

Fantastic! The sooner we're relieved from the TV amateur head-in-the-sand detectives who keep on going against the wishes of the victims' parents to respect their privacy and dignity with their ludicrous denials that there is no evidence and that these "poor boys" are tortured scapegoats, and their sick habit to regurgitate in detail what happened to the victims, the better!

Edited December 10, 2014 by Impossible

[Krenjai]

Letter from the B2 @ CSILA & Samui Times and you know what JD, I believe them!! Poor fellows!

http://www.samuitimes.com/letter-two-accused-koh-tao-murders-daw-aung-san-suu-kyi-myanmar-democracy-icon/

To: Daw Aung San Suu Kyi,

We pay obedience to the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, our parents and our teachers.

The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already. We think it is injustice that we are in the jail. We want justice and equality.

When you are reading this letter, we do not know really how you will think about us, but if possible we want you to help us, and we are also asking the help from you.

We are poor, so we came to Thailand to work and save money. My friend, Zaw Lin, he does not have father, he has to support his widow mother.

I (Wai Phyo) also have to support my grandmother and parents. In the beginning when we arrived in Thailand we suffered many difficulties, we do not want to be suffering like poor people and we tried to work hard and sent money back to our parents regularly, we were happy so much for that.

But now our hopes are broken. We are worried about our parents, who will support them, and we miss our parents every day, when we miss them we are crying. When we go to bed we pray for all people and creatures in the world to have safety, peace, good health and happiness. Please also pray for us to be released from this case.

A May Suu, please have pity on us.

Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin

Edited December 10, 2014 by Krenjai

[Krenjai]

I am totally disgusted that the wishes of the victims' families, i.e. that a fair and transparent trial, is not going to happen. There is no disclosure, which is unfair to both sides and is hardly transparent.

Add to that the diminished time frame for the defence to submit documents to the court is anything but fair. Justice is not going to happen in this case. I don't even think that the authorities consider what the outside world thinks - they just don't give a monkey's, except to finalise this case. The B2 will be found guilty. End of story - bleat about it, but nothing will change.

"The defense team has been given just sixteen days to prepare their case, which has been brought forward from February 25^th 2015 to December 26^th, Boxing Day in the UK and the anniversary of the Asian Tsunami.

The prosecution has made no disclosure of their witness statements while the defense has been asked to produce a full witness list, according to lead defense lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat. Reports suggest that the prosecution have only provided a six page document for the defense team to go on giving the defense team no time to prepare challenges to prosecution witnesses."

http://www.samuitimes.com/letter-two-accused-koh-tao-murders-daw-aung-san-suu-kyi-myanmar-democracy-icon/

[Robby nz]

This morning from Christopher Harkins :

A call on supporters to email the FCO

Christopher Harkins

U.S. Minor Outlying Islands

10 Dec 2014 — While I have tried repeatedly to contact the FCO, my calls for them to release all evidence related to this case to the Thai defense team have consistently been ignored. I have also called for an official response by the UK government to our original petition but there has been no reply.

In the United Kingdom, once a suspect is indicted all evidence collected by the authorities is released to the suspect’s defense team. This is so that the defense team has ample time to go through the evidence and prepare a proper defense. Unfortunately, in the Thai judicial system this is not the case and the defense team must wait until the first day of court to receive what evidence the authorities have.

All any of us have wanted since the beginning of this horrible ordeal was greater UK involvement in the hopes that this would lead to a clear and transparent investigation, and a fair trial for the accused. While we have been successful in helping to pressure the government to send an investigation team over to Koh Tao, we are not actually aware of what this team did and are now waiting impatiently for the results of that investigation to be made available to the defense team in accordance with UK legal standards.

A lot of us are also deeply concerned with both the timing and the way in which the FCO issued statements from the parents. We have clear legal authorities in the UK saying that if the FCO did this for a UK criminal case, it would be a clear case of 'contempt of court' and hence unlawful.

Many of us simply do not trust the Thai authorities to deliver us justice, and there are serious concerns that they are in the process of rushing through this trial as quickly as possible. This has been made clearly evident with the announcement that the trial has been moved forward by 2 months to December 26th, giving the defense team only 16 days to prepare. Because of this, I call on those that have the time to please write to the FCO and plead with them to release all evidence related to this case.

Please if you have a minute, and agree with our approach, then copy and paste the following message, or write your own, and email it to [email protected]

“We ask the Foreign Commonwealth Office to please release all evidence collected by the UK authorities into the investigation of the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller to the Thai defense team of Mr Nakhon Chompuchat. This should include all evidence collected by UK investigators during their visit to Koh Tao, as well as all evidence from their own interviews with UK based witnesses and the UK autopsy reports of David and Hannah. The legal defense team of Nakhon Chompuchat has reported its dissatisfaction with the lack of transparent and full cooperation from the FCO and British authorities to their requests for assistance to ensure a fair trial for the accused. We believe the current actions of the FCO to be unacceptable and demand all evidence be made available to the defense team in accordance with UK legal standards.”

I would also like to mention that the Migrant Workers Rights Network has published a detailed list of the donations spending on their website which I have linked below. We are still accepting letters of support to Win and Zaw at ,deleted> and if you would also like to donate it is very much appreciated.

Thank you again for your support as we continue to fight for justice for David and Hannah.

[slipperx]

The other thing to note is that normally you will wait months between hearings. The prosecution goes first and the evidence may be split across a few months and then there is another 3-6 months until the Defence give their evidence. In one case I have, we are two years in and the court decided to restart the case as someone of the multiple defendants pleaded guilty. So now the case is delayed another year. That will not be the end of it either as it is only the plaintiff giving evidence again. It does give the idea that the courts only finish the cases they want and the others get delayed to death.

Anyway the point is maybe the date given is just for the Prosecutions evidence hearing and then there will be s delay whilst the Defence digest and prepare their evidence. If not then Thai justice will be in the spotlight. The Burmese must be given a chance to formulate their case whether they are guilty or innocent .... Mustn't they?

The OP clearly states:

The hearing of witnesses in the murder case of two British tourists on Surat Thani's Koh Tao has been moved from February 25 to December 26, 2014

Some people that just can't help themselves to jump to conclusions and spin conspiracies seem to just had read the thread title and think that date is for the delivery of the sentence.

Not sure if you are really replying to my post but as I said in the Thai justice system witnesses may give evidence on many different dates and these are not very often dates that follow each other. Usually one side will give their evidence of with several months between sets of witnesses and then more delays until the other side takes its turn. The fact the first hearing has been brought forward does not mean the case will all be finished in December. However this is definitely on a fast track compared to normal- in fact it is rocket propelled

[falangjim]

A very sensetive case not only for the accused but for the inhabitants of Koh Toa who will have more of their beloved island in the international news, negative for all. I apologise for my offence post but only wanted to support the islanders who have lived through this tragedy, don't take it out on them was all I wanted to say.

Very happy to take it out on them considering it's their silence which could lead to two innocents being executed.

[jdinasia]

A very sensetive case not only for the accused but for the inhabitants of Koh Toa who will have more of their beloved island in the international news, negative for all. I apologise for my offence post but only wanted to support the islanders who have lived through this tragedy, don't take it out on them was all I wanted to say.

Very happy to take it out on them considering it's their silence which could lead to two innocents being executed.

Collective punishment is OK with you?

[siampolee]

jdinasia post # 140

Collective punishment is OK with you?

No difference to the agenda you so strongly support against two non Thai's.

[jdinasia]

jdinasia post # 140

Collective punishment is OK with you?

No difference to the agenda you so strongly support against two non Thai's.

My "agenda" is a trial.

[siampolee]

jdinasia post # 141

My "agenda" is a trial.

Indeed we have all noticed your ongoing trial process in all of your biased posts .

R.T.P. good. B2. Bad

(Apologies to the late George Orwell for adaptions of his comments in Animal Farm.)

Edited December 11, 2014 by siampolee

[jdinasia]

Since you seem intent on lying, it is time to ask. Where have I Praised the RTP?

[mcm991]

Since you seem intent on lying, it is time to ask. Where have I Praised the RTP?

Well .. you do have VERY close connections to very senior RTP personal. Seems only right you would defend them.

[slipperx]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

[rickirs]

There may be another more important issue from a government perspective that is driving a quick trial date.

The police commissioner has several times now refused to meet with the Independent Organization National Human Rights Commission over allegations over the use of torture and physical threats against the accused and family to force a confession. Although the NHR Commissioner has stated that his inquiry has no connection with the guilt or innocence of the accused, one might imagine the political fallout with the UN and foreign trade partners if such abuse was confirmed. if the two were found guilty, that might forestall any further NHRC inquiry.

So what can be more important than guilt or innocence of the accused? Saving national face and foreign politics. And remember, even if the accused are found innocent by the Lower Criminal Court, they can be retried on Appeal, and failing a guilty in the Appeals Court, can be retired in the Supreme Court.

[jdinasia]

Since you seem intent on lying, it is time to ask. Where have I Praised the RTP?

Well .. you do have VERY close connections to very senior RTP personal. Seems only right you would defend them.

Umm no I don't have "VERY close connections to very senior RTP personal*". (sic)

Nor have I ever claimed to have close connections with any police.

[jdinasia]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

The FCO will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

[Robby nz]

In an earlier post I Read that the FCO in the UK is being obtuse with regards to furnishing the Defence team with evidence that maybe at their disposal.

If this is indeed the case it is a national disgrace. Having had dealings with the FCO, I have little respect for them but it is sickening to think they will not lift a finger to help serve the cause of justice. This is not the UK I grew up in - what happened to honour in the world?

The FCO will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

Could you please explain how releasing the findings of the UK police team to the defense, which would be normal practice in the UK, is interfering in the Thai judicial system.

Surely having those findings would help the defense in getting the Burmese a fair trial, which you say you support.

[dcutman]

jdinasia post # 140

Collective punishment is OK with you?

No difference to the agenda you so strongly support against two non Thai's.

My "agenda" is a trial.

You mean a fair trial, right?