helping my wife in local market

[transam]

My wife has a market stall and I go down to help her clean up and put stuff away in the evenings and both she and the other stall holders say it is OK as it is a family business. no problems with other stall holders and occasionally help them if they need help to lift anything. that is in Khon Kaen

Sorry to tell you chum but if a problem arises you WOULD be in shit.............Sad I know but that is the way it is.

[Howiehotspur]

Work is defined as anything they feel like at the time........especially if it upsets another Thai.

I think you've nailed it here .. Watching eyes , jealous neighbours , or vendor rivals , ... Don't even try IMO

[NickJ]

From experience.....

[recom273]

crazy stuff. I have heard the stories, too, but never though that much about it...when I was single. Now that I'm married the truth is starting to sink in about how unfair this law feels. Has anyone gone to the labor dept. to actually talk to them? I read that the labor dept. can issue work permits at their discretion if the requester has a legitimate reason for one. This is regardless of other criteria, from what I understand. That being said, I wouldn't want to go speak with them and in that opening the door to a lot of scrutiny.

I haven't read through all these posts, but this quote is kind of true.

I didn't hear this from the horses mouth, its reliable second-hand info, but I know this guy, and l will meet him again one day, and find the truth for myself.

This guy, a westerner, he has a motorised food cart which he works on his own. Apparently, he went to court to get his work permit for the food cart, the reasoning behind it, he is a teacher here, with a wife and 2 or 3 kids and the 30K salary is not enough for him to raise his family.

There maybe some disbelievers, but he has operated for a year or so, he's not low-profile either. I'm informed he has had trouble, people who have called the police and after viewing the documents the police walked away.

If the OP thinks their is some milage in it he should go and speak with the labour office, hire a solicitor and proceed.

[chrisinth]

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Little known fact.....if your wife has a business and she is the sole owner....and you have been married for more than two years you can get a work permit to assist your wife......nobody wants to tell you about this but it true.....

Maybe someone should tell the Labour Office, Immigration and the Police......

Without doubting Nick's experience, perhaps providing a link to that little known fact could help a lot of frightened people out there...........................

[bigwhitewarrior]

I know of a guy who has set up a market stall selling things... he has been here 3 years and has no work permit or anything legal going on. I was surprised that he is getting away with that.

[neeray]

OMG. Ignorance really is bliss. By reading ThaiVisaForum and the question posed by "Bamboozled", I now realize that I unintentionally broke Thai law on several occasions during my recent 4 week stay in Thailand with my fiancé.

She owns a little farm (doesn't reside there). I pitched in and helped her accomplish something at the farm for a few days. It is a good thing that this was out in the country and that she is in good graces with her neighbours who saw this farang working (excuse me, helping out his fiancé).

Thanks for the post "bamboozled". And thanks to all members for their valuable input.

[malcoml]

It really depends where you are.

In kohl Samui I have even seen foreigners wait tables.

In pattaya I know of a guy who was fined for carrying groceries into his house. Their house was above his wife's restaurant.

I know a guy who was painting his fence and it took him an hour to explain it was his house but then they wanted to fine him as it was actually his wife's house.

A guy was fined in his bar for cleaning an ashtray after he had finished smoking and put the but out in it.

[longstebe]

Me thinks a lot of posters are missing the point here, most of us would agree that to help your wife in a market stall or around the house is more than ok but I'm sure we're all aware of the Thai authorities or the little snitches that lurk around.

Its just not worth it.

[Gonsalviz]

Where I live I became Tourist police volunteer.......Nooooooooooo, not a street walker...........Just on the end of a phone to help farang folk if needed.......Why did I do that, one of the reasons.............?.............

You always wanted to wear the uniform and look important?

Nope, try again........

I don't have a uniform..........

Don't tell them. Save everyone some hassle.

[Dirk_brijs]

I don't understand this Thailand this and Thailand that no good and so on.........

in every country in the world there are labor laws

I for one in Belgium experienced this several time.

One time helping out making a few sandwiches in a bar from a real good friend not registered to work there while labor inspectors walked in and got my friend in some serious shit.....

His kitchen was in the basement and couldn't come out when they walked in so when they came down I was not even working anymore as I knew they were there but he was fined anyways and I got in some serious trouble with labor department (if I would have been unemployed, which I wasn't at the time, I would have lost my unemployment support)

I also owned my own business in Belgium for a few years and got raided by labor department several times stating it was reported to them I had someone working for me unofficially. Luckily every time they busted in that person (a girlfriend who indeed was not registered working with me) was out or it would have costed me a hefty fine for sure.

So again guys every country in the world has very strict labor laws and in every country you find jealous competitors who try to fix one another

and again if you don't like the laws here ..........you know the rest right?

[DKNY77]

I got all of these beat.. A freind of mine stopped by where his wife worked.to take her to lunch .She had a little clothing shop. While waiting for her to close up ..a customer accidently bumped into him and knocked a soft drink out of his hand (that he had been drinking )and it spilled on the floor . he grabbed a paper towell to wipe it up.. a cop passing by saw him and arrested him for working w/o a permit.. heavily fined and deported. I KID YOU NOT .. Chiang Mai 2 years ago...

complete insanity.

[longstebe]

I got all of these beat.. A freind of mine stopped by where his wife worked.to take her to lunch .She had a little clothing shop. While waiting for her to close up ..a customer accidently bumped into him and knocked a soft drink out of his hand (that he had been drinking )and it spilled on the floor . he grabbed a paper towell to wipe it up.. a cop passing by saw him and arrested him for working w/o a permit.. heavily fined and deported. I KID YOU NOT .. Chiang Mai 2 years ago...

complete insanity.

Noooooooo, honestly.

That's bloody terrible. Imagine if the poor sod had kids and houses cars.......the list goes on.

[Expat Brad]

I was watching a Thai television program (Thai PBS) some time ago about this English guy somewhere in Isaan. He is married to a Thai & he works his farm with no issues in fact he has spoken at several farming seminars. He speaks very good Thai (Isaan dialect) & has assimilated into the local community where he lives & people appeared to respect & like him. The one thing that I noticed on top of this was that he lives no differently to his neighbours which is very simply, small wooden Thai house which was more like a shack actually. I don't know how in this case that this farang is okay to the point of being on national television but others are not. It cannot be his location because of the television program etc. IMO maybe food for thought.

[Baerboxer]

I'd be very careful about doing something like that. Only tales one jealous person to complain.

Having said that, I like going to night markets and looking at the variety of things on offer. There are some good ones around the Ram Inthra area and a very nice one Tuesday's and Thursday's at the side of The Walk mall. I've noticed several farang husbands helping out with their Thai wives at family run food stools. Some more discreet but others laboring and selling, taking the money. They are usually there whenever I go.

I remember once a bar owner telling me he'd been warned for being seen to empty ash trays (a few years ago) as an off duty policeman was a customer at the time.

[bamboozled]

We're planning to go to the labor office to day to get some info. She does not have a registered business but we will look into that as it could be the key to solving the problem (I'm sure very few folks selling in the markets have a registered business). I actually do have an incorporated business in Thai but to get it to the point where I could get a work permit would require maneuvering and too much money...more really than I have to spare. This business I incorporated years ago before I was married. Now that I am no longer single I think it makes more sense for her to register one. Certainly it will be a much smaller cash outlay and much simpler. Well, we'll see about that...

It's really hard to believe one would be deported for helping one's wife lift a bag of lemons or wash a glass or help set up a stand in the local market. I can see being fined but anything over that for a first offense seems inhuman. Unless the farang in question has some back history or starts mouthing off to the police and throwing gasoline on the situation in some way. Then I could see the problem snowballing.

[HooHaa]

yeah yeah, i was picking my teeth in a dentists office and i got deported.

[arthurwait]

If you mean to get a work permit on your wifes business if it is registered you would need 4 Thai employees (2 if you believe what some people say, although my immigration office denies this) pay their wages and SS , just under 10k per month each and pay your tax and SS a bit under 10k per month and supposedly registered and potentially inspected business premises.

Back to the OP though helping your wife lift a few bags doesn't seem a problem , but you would actually be helping a business that pays/contributes for her and her family(you) to live, therefore it is earnings and work.

Personally I don't believe half the stories on here and think there must be more to it like you. Although money is the only thing that talks here and for anything to be done money has to be paid.

Only one I know of was a farang in pattaya the story his mate told us was completely different to what the Thais told us. They hated the guy and also the farang that told us.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Bamboozled, as you can see, a complete range of anecdotes and experiences arrayed before you. Some farangs get away with it, some don't.

I remember sitting helplessly in my (ex) GF's restaurant off Thepphrasit, Jomtien and not being able to help her do very simple, non-customer things, such as speeding up the closing chores or picking up my meal plate and things to place in the kitchen. There's no way she could afford to hire a helper and there's no way I could help her legally. It was the worst feeling.

In this scenario, if Bamboozled is wanting to help his wife, he has to be on really great terms with competitor neighbours. But all it takes is one slight annoyance and that nasty phone call goes out. I think that vendors are not so ignorant that they don't know a farangs can't work in the retail business. Farangs who do this may get away with it for 4-5 years, but one phone call could take it all away. I am aware of a farang who was fined 30,000 baht in court. He was lucky to get off lightly because his wife knew some immigration types.

Last, nothing annoys a local more than seeing someone with advantage running a successful business. There's something in their character, which we could call jealousy, that causes them to make trouble. This is based on my experiences with entrepreneurial GFs and that of another farang friend.

[BuckBee]

Basically if your face fits & everyone likes you & your wife no problem but if local traders or local police/immigration want make a fuss then they can,

I done very much the same if not worse for 3yrs in main bangkok tourist area & bumped into everyone from military, tv crews to bangkok governer without ever once being questioned or hassled but it is indeed a lottery .

[petercool]

A Thai bashing post removed

[elviajero]

I personally saw immigration police threaten to arrest my next door neighbour just for moving a washing basket in his wifes laundry shop, so he could sit down on a chair. .

About fifteen years ago, here in Phuket, a man was arrested and deported due to carrying a sack of lemons to his wife who manned the stall in a market.

What a lovely place to live.

I think it's a paradise, where else can you say, "I'm sorry darling, I cannot do the chores you ask, we may get arrested."

AFAIK, it is permissible to do the usual round the house chores and work in the garden. Not likely to bother anyone. The moment you offer or are asked to help- cut your neighbor's grass you can be in a world of trouble as that is working for someone else. Many people get away with doing the kind of things that have been mentioned on this thread but it only takes one vindictive person to grass you up and you will get that knock on the door.

Perhaps someone with first hand experience can clarify whether doing maintenance on your own (the wife's )dwelling is illegal.

I don't have first hand experience, but the labour acts definition of work means that even doing maintenance on your wife's home would be work and require a work permit. It's a crazy situation, but nonetheless illegal.

Hopefully Thailand will amend this law in the future and bring it up to date.

[paz]

I don't have first hand experience, but the labour acts definition of work means that even doing maintenance on your wife's home would be work and require a work permit. It's a crazy situation, but nonetheless illegal.

Hopefully Thailand will amend this law in the future and bring it up to date.

The "definition" as understood by alien (foreigners) minds could be that, but there are no precedents about anyone prosecuted and sentenced for doing house maintenance. Even in Thailand, some common sense is used.

[culicine]

funny how the rights of westerners seems to less than that of illegal foreign workers sometimes

We have the right to pay tax, and 10x entry to third rate national parks...those are our rights. Nothing else as far as I can see.

I'm surprised I'm even allowed to mow my wife's lawn. Isn't that also taking a job from a Thai ?

[jdinasia]

Where I live I became Tourist police volunteer.......Nooooooooooo, not a street walker...........Just on the end of a phone to help farang folk if needed.......Why did I do that, one of the reasons.............?.............

Oh? You were a volunteer for the Tourist Police department of the RTP?

[thailand49]

Regardless of the labor laws people are citing which to be honest I do not care or even have seconds thoughts about it especially when taking money which I don't. You ask first hand experience. I have been doing what you posted for a number of years off and on and never had a problem. This is what she likes to do even though she does not have to but I help her at home put everything into her side cart when she is done and follow her there. Basically just help her carry the heavy stuff to her area and she does everything else. Return in the evening and put things back into the side cart.

I never had a problem with the locals anyone. Not doing anything different than any other Thai family member or husband regardless of the letter of the law.

For those who want to follow exactly the laws I say knock themselves out and I've spoken to some that say I can't even work on my house. To that I basically follow the rule as I've done for the above.

Many of the police with buys from my wife knows me and I've help them fix things at their own house for those who live near me and when the wives have problem and their man is not home they call on me. I drink with them and party at times and one individual who works in Immigration lives a few door down from me. I been doing what I do living here as a Expat fixing my own house etc..basically re-doing what a Thai contractor did which I paid him handsomely for doing it all wrong. I never having a second thought going about my business just like any human being Thai family member.

The day someone snitch me off for just being a human being and upstanding member living here. I will say the same thing in front of any government official who I stand before to judge me. I will tell him/her I also feed many of the children in my neighborhood, allow them to play in my house with my kids while their mother and father also work at the market. I also have given rides to my Thai neighbors on more than one occasions to the hospital due to a emergency, The list goes on and on I do not keep tabs, I live here and they and I consider myself one of them.

Edited February 25, 2015 by thailand49

[MyFriend You]

I personally saw immigration police threaten to arrest my next door neighbour just for moving a washing basket in his wifes laundry shop, so he could sit down on a chair. ….

About fifteen years ago, here in Phuket, a man was arrested and deported due to carrying a sack of lemons to his wife who manned the stall in a market.

What a lovely place to live.

People complain when they don't enforce the law. People complain when they do.

Frankly, I think some people just like to complain.

Frankly I think you are an idiot if you believe helping ones wife to unpack or pack at a market is something that should require a WP. In Thailand laws against stupid offenses that hurt no-one are enforced if a Farang is involved because it is easy work and a good source of tea money. But laws that forbid drink driving, or burning rice fields and rubbish are rarely enforced because they mainly involve a Thai. Face it, this is a country of very bigotted people who seemingly just do not like Farangs.

Call us idiots if you will, you are not the one that will pay the fine, or do the time, save your rants for someone that posts rediculous requests, not for a legitimate one like this..........I don't even know why I wasted a hundred keystrokes on you, I hope the poster does not even consider this garbage you spit above - get a life.

[MyFriend You]

in CM i just opening a café and bar, and since 6 weeks i am there every morning until evening,

i give workers instructions, i bring tales, colors and all the things who are required,

and i carry things, I am in the rental contract and this is my property for the next 10 years,

and nobody can stop me to do this, as we will also living there,

as I will not serve coffee by my own, there cant be any problem, I can check the stock, controlling money and

as I have a contract with the person who will run it on her name,

all the guys here start with I have heard, omg come with some real experiences from 1. hand and not rumors or

what you wish to be true, nobody can be deported because of wearing a bag to market or because help his wife in market,

if there would be a problem than just tell the IMO here is my adress, i am married with legal status, just lets this solve in front of a court, and nothing will happend, this is no work without work permit like teaching in a school or simular

Six weeks??, just wait until you are successful and start making real money, jealous neighboring Cafe's or Restaurants will make that call people have been talking about.....happened to me in Pattaya , so I wound up selling my place and watched the authorities (Thai Navy) confiscate the property from the new owner, two years later. The 'stories' we tell are from experience - don't believe me?? The City Pump Station on beach road was the location of my Bar/Cafe - The Swiss Chalet was next door, it too was confiscated, it is now Mom & Pop store of a high ranking Naval Officer.

You can't win if you buck authority in Thailand, once you understand that, then you can live here just fine.

[Jessi]

in CM i just opening a café and bar, and since 6 weeks i am there every morning until evening,

i give workers instructions, i bring tales, colors and all the things who are required,

and i carry things, I am in the rental contract and this is my property for the next 10 years,

and nobody can stop me to do this, as we will also living there,

as I will not serve coffee by my own, there cant be any problem, I can check the stock, controlling money and

as I have a contract with the person who will run it on her name,

all the guys here start with I have heard, omg come with some real experiences from 1. hand and not rumors or

what you wish to be true, nobody can be deported because of wearing a bag to market or because help his wife in market,

if there would be a problem than just tell the IMO here is my adress, i am married with legal status, just lets this solve in front of a court, and nothing will happend, this is no work without work permit like teaching in a school or simular

Six weeks??, just wait until you are successful and start making real money, jealous neighboring Cafe's or Restaurants will make that call people have been talking about.....happened to me in Pattaya , so I wound up selling my place and watched the authorities (Thai Navy) confiscate the property from the new owner, two years later. The 'stories' we tell are from experience - don't believe me?? The City Pump Station on beach road was the location of my Bar/Cafe - The Swiss Chalet was next door, it too was confiscated, it is now Mom & Pop store of a high ranking Naval Officer.

You can't win if you buck authority in Thailand, once you understand that, then you can live here just fine.

TunnelRat69, I agree with what you are saying. I have been here on & off for 24years, seen & heard all of the nightmare stories.

Back in 2005 I think or 2006, 5 foreigners were arrested for working in Chantaburi, They were buying Gem stones, yes SHOPPING and they were all deported. One was a U.S citizen and the U.S. were very upset about all of this & contacted the Immigration Dept about it but nothing happened, he still got deported. Some members on here may remember this issue!

I think the OP has been given plenty of warning about this, If he goes ahead with this and gets away with it, good luck to him if he gets caught he is the one that will have to bite the bullet. I just wish him Good Luck with the Choice he makes.

[Jessi]

The City Pump Station on beach road was the location of my Bar/Cafe - The Swiss Chalet was next door,

I remember that place, also Spinneys supermarket. Oh the memories.