Thailand is the Most Religious Country in the World

[Commerce]

Twaddle, particularly the bit about religion becoming more popular over the next 35 years. How on earth can anyone predict that with any degree of certainty? With science gradually pushing back the frontiers of our ignorance and likely to discover the origins of the universe in the foreseeable future, I would have thought God is on his way out and will disappear with a big bang when we learn the scientific truth about how we really got here.

The sooner we wake up to the fact that we are, whether we like it or not, the masters of our own earthly destiny, the better for mankind. Just getting rid of religious hatred and the conflicts it has created over centuries, will be compensation enough for having to stand on our own feet. We might even start trying to build a heaven on this planet, rather than praying for one in the hereafter.

The late and great contrarian Christopher Hitchens opined that religion poisons everything and if one looks at the degree of corruption, crime and lack of compassion for anyone outside the immediate family in the world's most religious country where I, an anti-theist, have spent the last two decades you can't help feeling he was right.

Go back and read my posts.

[Linzz]

People saying they are religious doesn't mean anything and certainly doesn't prove they are.

So many Thais go through the motions of being ' good ' Buddhists yet are up to all sorts of things that are definitely not on and all the merit making, pandering to monks and wearing amulets etc doesn't count for anything.

Like so much here it's all show and no substance.

You sound a little cynical but you are 90% right in what you say. However it is also a good thing that so many Thai have a heart for beggars. If that is making merit then I applaud it whatever the motivation is.

[Johnnie99]

They missed April Fool's Day by a few.

[Aussiescott]

"When it comes to education and religion, people with no education are most religious"

Now there's a thing.

Are you saying that the pope is thick ? or in on the scheme

You can't take what the pope says seriously , after all he believes in a god...

The Catholic Church/Pope believe in "the other God"...Very few Thai's practice true Buddhism,... they are all just superstitious and do wrong and then go to the temple to try and cover their ass...I have this debate with my missus all the time... DON"T claim to be religious if you dont live by the rules of the religion, or in the case of Buddhism, it's the way of life. True religion does not worship Idols/a Statue, they worship a God... Who researches these misleading articles...

[boomerangutang]

I don't know what is funnier - the claim that Thailand is the most religious country or saying that they were voted most religious.

They weren't voted most religious, they voted themselves (individually) most religious. If you ask people in a community, "are you honest?" "are you a thief?" ...what will they say? Yet, that same community might have a lot of things stolen and a lot of lies told.

What would be more interesting, would be a survey about the # and % of lady boys. In both categories, Thailand would be tops.

[Commerce]

I am so happy to see the amost universal agreement concerning Budhism in Thailand. It did not take all of my eight years here to discover that of all the BS and Lies, that this is the biggest one. And the saddest. I am Christian but very studied in much. Basic (real original) Budhism, which is essentially the correct understanding of the MIDDLE WAY, is as close to being Christian in Behavior that you can get. These people do not have a clue. Exceptions of course. Most Thai are exstreenist in practice. Sometimes I wonder what the point is talking about any of these things. Impossible to change them. And if you tell the new farang on the block, to help him, he will not listen. MAYBE there is reason for our being here. I call it PURGATORY. I used to call it HELL, but HELL is forever, I cannot face that possibility. No, you cannot leave either untill the jailhouse door is opened. That is why we stupidly lose most all our money within the first three years. Jaildoor slams shut. Help me Budha, Help me. He laughs. Idiot he says!!!

I'll give you a little insight. I have a very good understanding of Pali. I teach Phra and Phramaha at Wat Raiking, one of Thailand's most famous temples/wats.

I go to stay, 3 or 4 days, catered (very well indeed) for whilst I teach them, usually 4/5 times a year - helping them complete their UNBOUGHT PhDs, get their Pali in order, and translations of such because I know how to reference such, etc.

They have everything inside their buildings, and I mean EVERYTHING. They do not cease eating after 12pm.... in fact they eat when they want to.... and they always have a huge dinner between 6pm-8pm each day. I am invited to the room table, and sit in a venerable position I may add (usually on a level above Phra, and on the level seating of Phramaha).,Exquisite food is delivered - many tastes of food from Chinese, to Indian, freshly delivered from restaurants, you name it. They do go outside of the building to smoke - I'll offer that due to them - they do respect the buildings. They watch TV, play on their phones and computers (all behind closed doors, of course), get up in the morning, and walk to the main temple as if they are Buddha-like and poor - waiting to collect their merit food in their jarns, which is generally frozen and fed to the fish or pigs.

They pay me in cash! From the Phramaha to me, who actually wais me and sits lower. You wouldn't believe what goes on behind closed doors. I could go on, but prefer not to in too much detail. It is now a business, not a true practice....... I'll leave it that. However, a final word; they consider me, a farang, to be as Buddhist as they are!

[boomerangutang]

my understanding is that Buddhism isn't a religion. its a set of beliefs. Buddha himself proclaims hes no god

you are 100% correct in your assumption sir..

That's a cop-out. By every indication, Buddhism is a religion. It has rules, it has icons to worship, it has a plethora of requirements, it has houses of worship, it has reams of rituals, it has myths, monks, nuns, orthodoxy, stratification of roles.

That's like Thaksin saying (true story) "I'm not a rich man" 2 days after he got multi-millions of dollars from Singapore for selling AIS.

[micmichd]

I was born as a Christian Farang, and I quit church at the age of 14 because I believed in biology, so I couldn't accept a pregnant virgin.

Still I believe that everyone needs something to believe in to sort his/her views of the world around.

Many say religion is only for the uneducated.

Define 'religion' as 'cognitive frame', and things might look different.

There's mathematical-logical *proof* that you have to have a cognitive frame for any logic, it's called the Goedel theorem (s. Douglas Hofstaedter, Goedel Escher Bach, if you have time and patience to read)

Taking this into account, it might be the best educated scientists that know about their limits and then accept religion as a cognitive prerequisite.

Many of those who disgust animism are afraid of snakes or black cats crossing their way. Better watch out.

From a psychiatric point of view, your Christian God might be labeled as a sadistic psychopath, and his followers were created as an image of Him. Fortunately I don't believe in psychiatry too much.

Don't go for bashing Buddhist monks now, please.

Guess Thailand might turn into a madhouse without those places for contemplation they call temples. Many rich and educated people go there, and of course people who know how to drive a car or use a computer. Going to a temple and join the monks is not a one-way street, you're not forced to stay there for the rest of your life.

Please think about what you are saying when you label Buddhist monks as 'losers', someone who has been in the temple might not be too amused.

[mikemac]

really depends on how you interpret religion.

IS slashes throats in the name of "religion".

This one by the Guardian is pure hogwash.

After reading some of the Guardian stories concerning the Junta and the Coup I would say the majority of their content is hogwash.

This topic has become just another Buddhist bashing free-for-all.................................next !

[digibum]

The reality is that Thais think they're practicing Buddhism. This is what they know. Whether you believe their views to be logical, well intentioned, or self-serving is really not of consequence in terms of whether they believe themselves to be religious.

Deep down inside, I very much doubt they do think they are practicing Buddhism. Not many I encounter can answer even the most rudimentary questions on the subject.

As for it being all they know, well, that is entirely their choice - the information is all out there if you want to give Facebook a rest for five minutes...

And I know plenty of Christians who can't answer rudimentary questions about Christianity and think that they're religious as well. In fact, some of the most "religious" people in the world are woefully uneducated - about religion and in general.

BTW, what subject are you talking about? Buddhism the religion or Buddhism the philosophy? I 100% agree that few Thais practice Buddhism as a philosophy. However, I do believe that they practice what they think is Buddhist religion.

Much in the same way that I think many Christians practice Christianity the mythology, religion, and superstition but have no clue about theology or even the philosophy.

On a whole, I think if you picked 10 random Christians off the street and 10 Thai Buddhist off the street and ask the Christians to recite the ten commandments and the Thais to recite the noble eightfold path, you would have a somewhat equal number of each group who couldn't perform the task.

The point I'm trying to make is that all religions are built on masses of people who do not understand the theology but get some comfort out of the community. If a Buddhist were to be dropped into the middle of the western world and observed the genocides, intolerance towards gays, materialism, bigotry, etc, etc and then asked to reconcile that with the Christian religion, I'm sure they would think the west was full of hypocrites.

[Fullstop]

According to my own research over the years ... Thailand is the most bullsh!t ridden country in the world. No real substance. But fun.

[Tchooptip]

No it isn't.. the Philippines is the most religious country in the world - if devout Christians count

Saudi Arabia....I think they kill you if you are not religious

Not every time do I agree with you but this time 1000% "they kill you if you are not religious"

[blazes]

500 years ago, all of Europe was riddled with priestly corruption. Monks used to sell "holy" relics....the bone of the little finger of Saint SoandSo....and so on.

Many of the greatest writers used to mock the priestly crap....see, for ex, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.

So, hang on a while and the monks will all be gone....

[BwindiBoy]

"...people with no education are most religious..." - that says it all to me. Well done Thailand!

[Guest]

I have never been to the Middle East ... The Muslim states or Israel.

I am willing to bet there are places where exactly zero people would answer "No" to the following questions.

Are you religious?

There is no point in arguing this, for it is a ridiculous statement. We really may as well debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The reason I am posting this is not to argue this ... but point out atht lately Thai Visa is posting some ridiculous and obtuse "headlines" ... I really am beginning to think they sit around dreaming up "articles' sure to feed the trolls and generate endless debate.

OK ... have a nice day.

PS: Thanks to the professional Thai Bashers for finding a way to insult Monks, the Thai People and their government.

[Guest]

The reality is that Thais think they're practicing Buddhism. This is what they know. Whether you believe their views to be logical, well intentioned, or self-serving is really not of consequence in terms of whether they believe themselves to be religious.

Deep down inside, I very much doubt they do think they are practicing Buddhism. Not many I encounter can answer even the most rudimentary questions on the subject.

As for it being all they know, well, that is entirely their choice - the information is all out there if you want to give Facebook a rest for five minutes...

And I know plenty of Christians who can't answer rudimentary questions about Christianity and think that they're religious as well. In fact, some of the most "religious" people in the world are woefully uneducated - about religion and in general.

BTW, what subject are you talking about? Buddhism the religion or Buddhism the philosophy? I 100% agree that few Thais practice Buddhism as a philosophy. However, I do believe that they practice what they think is Buddhist religion.

Much in the same way that I think many Christians practice Christianity the mythology, religion, and superstition but have no clue about theology or even the philosophy.

On a whole, I think if you picked 10 random Christians off the street and 10 Thai Buddhist off the street and ask the Christians to recite the ten commandments and the Thais to recite the noble eightfold path, you would have a somewhat equal number of each group who couldn't perform the task.

The point I'm trying to make is that all religions are built on masses of people who do not understand the theology but get some comfort out of the community. If a Buddhist were to be dropped into the middle of the western world and observed the genocides, intolerance towards gays, materialism, bigotry, etc, etc and then asked to reconcile that with the Christian religion, I'm sure they would think the west was full of hypocrites.

Kudos to you Sir. It really is a new year, for we see before us an extremely well written and thoughtful posting regarding religious philosophy and faith.

They often travel together … but faith can travel solo. It is not ours to question another’s faith in God.

Nor, even debate what God is …

I know people who “believe” in Hermes … and have Faith it somehow makes them Holy to own their stuff.

There is an arse for every seat …

Anyway … point is … it was a delight to find this rare gem of a posting … wish there were more like it.

[anotheruser]

krub

[casindonet]

SInce when money became a religion?

[digibum]

my understanding is that Buddhism isn't a religion. its a set of beliefs. Buddha himself proclaims hes no god

you are 100% correct in your assumption sir..

That's a cop-out. By every indication, Buddhism is a religion. It has rules, it has icons to worship, it has a plethora of requirements, it has houses of worship, it has reams of rituals, it has myths, monks, nuns, orthodoxy, stratification of roles.

That's like Thaksin saying (true story) "I'm not a rich man" 2 days after he got multi-millions of dollars from Singapore for selling AIS.

Actually, I think the major difference is that Buddhism has little if any dogma. Most religions are based on dogma. You cannot be Christian and not believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection. You cannot be a Jew without believing that God chose a certain group of people to be his favorites. You cannot be a Muslim without believing that Mohamed was a profit of God.

Buddhism started out quite different. The Buddha never asked anybody to believe in anything. He constantly challenged people to try it themselves. He didn't even claim he had the only way. He only claimed that that was the way that had worked for him.

After his death it became a religion. But, there is always a distinction between Buddhism the philosophy - the actual teachings of The Buddha - and the religion which is all of the rituals, etc that followed. You can pull out the teachings of The Buddha and practice them as a Buddhist, a Jew, a Christian, or even an atheist.

The way most Thais practice it though is completely as a religion and not even a very representative version of Buddhism. One of the reasons Buddhism, as a religion, spread so quickly was because it didn't require you to give up your existing traditions. It wasn't like other religions where you had to abandon everything and follow a new religion. Thais could keep their ghosts, tree spirits, superstitions, etc and add Buddhism into the mix.

Maybe someone remembers the book Phra Farang better than I do but I recall a piece in there where Phra Farang becomes somewhat disillusioned with Thai Buddhism when he contemplates all of the rites and ceremonies they have to perform that have no basis in Buddhism. Blessing motorbikes, blowing on children's heads, etc. He was distressed over how Thai Buddhism had become a public service to be performed for the laypeople. Without their financial and political support, they wouldn't exist so the entire practice of Buddhism had devolved into a magic show to appease the people.

Don't confuse that with what The Buddha was teaching. It's not the same.

[Commerce]

I was born as a Christian Farang, and I quit church at the age of 14 because I believed in biology, so I couldn't accept a pregnant virgin.

Still I believe that everyone needs something to believe in to sort his/her views of the world around.

Many say religion is only for the uneducated.

Define 'religion' as 'cognitive frame', and things might look different.

There's mathematical-logical *proof* that you have to have a cognitive frame for any logic, it's called the Goedel theorem (s. Douglas Hofstaedter, Goedel Escher Bach, if you have time and patience to read)

Taking this into account, it might be the best educated scientists that know about their limits and then accept religion as a cognitive prerequisite.

Many of those who disgust animism are afraid of snakes or black cats crossing their way. Better watch out.

From a psychiatric point of view, your Christian God might be labeled as a sadistic psychopath, and his followers were created as an image of Him. Fortunately I don't believe in psychiatry too much.

Don't go for bashing Buddhist monks now, please.

Guess Thailand might turn into a madhouse without those places for contemplation they call temples. Many rich and educated people go there, and of course people who know how to drive a car or use a computer. Going to a temple and join the monks is not a one-way street, you're not forced to stay there for the rest of your life.

Please think about what you are saying when you label Buddhist monks as 'losers', someone who has been in the temple might not be too amused.

They are certainly not 'losers'. The gains from serendipity are tremendous!

[digibum]

"...people with no education are most religious..." - that says it all to me. Well done Thailand!

You do realize that I'm also talking about:

Most of West-Asia, Africa, Central and Latin America, and Europe for several centuries

[Commerce]

you are 100% correct in your assumption sir..

That's a cop-out. By every indication, Buddhism is a religion. It has rules, it has icons to worship, it has a plethora of requirements, it has houses of worship, it has reams of rituals, it has myths, monks, nuns, orthodoxy, stratification of roles.

That's like Thaksin saying (true story) "I'm not a rich man" 2 days after he got multi-millions of dollars from Singapore for selling AIS.

Actually, I think the major difference is that Buddhism has little if any dogma. Most religions are based on dogma. You cannot be Christian and not believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection. You cannot be a Jew without believing that God chose a certain group of people to be his favorites. You cannot be a Muslim without believing that Mohamed was a profit of God.

Buddhism started out quite different. The Buddha never asked anybody to believe in anything. He constantly challenged people to try it themselves. He didn't even claim he had the only way. He only claimed that that was the way that had worked for him.

After his death it became a religion. But, there is always a distinction between Buddhism the philosophy - the actual teachings of The Buddha - and the religion which is all of the rituals, etc that followed. You can pull out the teachings of The Buddha and practice them as a Buddhist, a Jew, a Christian, or even an atheist.

The way most Thais practice it though is completely as a religion and not even a very representative version of Buddhism. One of the reasons Buddhism, as a religion, spread so quickly was because it didn't require you to give up your existing traditions. It wasn't like other religions where you had to abandon everything and follow a new religion. Thais could keep their ghosts, tree spirits, superstitions, etc and add Buddhism into the mix.

Maybe someone remembers the book Phra Farang better than I do but I recall a piece in there where Phra Farang becomes somewhat disillusioned with Thai Buddhism when he contemplates all of the rites and ceremonies they have to perform that have no basis in Buddhism. Blessing motorbikes, blowing on children's heads, etc. He was distressed over how Thai Buddhism had become a public service to be performed for the laypeople. Without their financial and political support, they wouldn't exist so the entire practice of Buddhism had devolved into a magic show to appease the people.

Don't confuse that with what The Buddha was teaching. It's not the same.

Do Buddhists believe in god?

No, we do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas, and especially the god idea, have their origin in fear.

The Buddha says:

"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,

sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".

Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world. The fear of wild animals; of not being able to find enough food; of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation - when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious in times of crises, and you will hear them say that their belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and that their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires, and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear not with irrational belief, but with rational understanding.

The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists, and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine, and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god, but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising, that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods, that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgment until such evidence is forthcoming.

The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin of the universe. However, Buddhists believe this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being, without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary, because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties, through their own inner resources and through their own efforts without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. Again, however, this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation, and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion, and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart, and He encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.

Enough?

[NoshowJones]

No it isn't.. the Philippines is the most religious country in the world - if devout Christians count

Saudi Arabia....I think they kill you if you are not religious

It makes one wonder how many muslim nations were in this poll...

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

[gaijinsomchai]

Interesting. I've gone from the "most religious" country to one of the "least religious." I prefer Japan's way. The people are honest and polite. So much for religion making people "good."

[NeilSA1]

my understanding is that Buddhism isn't a religion. its a set of beliefs. Buddha himself proclaims hes no god

Absolutly.

• A Basic Buddhism Guide: 5 Minute Introduction - BuddhaNet

  www.buddhanet.net/.../5minb...

  Buddha Dharma Education Association Inc

  Is Buddhism a Religion? To many, Buddhism goes beyond religion and is more of a philosophy or 'way of life'. It is a philosophy because philosophy 'means ...

[mikiea]

No it isn't.. the Philippines is the most religious country in the world - if devout Christians count

italy & the philippines about thecsame, hmmm......both catholic, go gigure :-)

[Commerce]

No it isn't.. the Philippines is the most religious country in the world - if devout Christians count

italy & the philippines about thecsame, hmmm......both catholic, go gigure :-)

Would you call 7th day adventist christian?

[Jim walker]

Thais worship money that is their main concern in life all this going to the temple is defiantly for show only they just go to see if they can get the winning lottery numbers from some of the temple money making stick shaking games.

[rebbu]

The sad thing is that if you speak to a Thai about this, they honestly believe that they ARE religious, and that all the 'perversions' of Buddhism that we read about in Thailand, is actually the norm and part and parcel of being a true Buddhist.

For me, that is the really sad part

I find that building a hotel and giving it away for nothing can really make you feel better inside.

[Commerce]

The sad thing is that if you speak to a Thai about this, they honestly believe that they ARE religious, and that all the 'perversions' of Buddhism that we read about in Thailand, is actually the norm and part and parcel of being a true Buddhist.

For me, that is the really sad part

I find that building a hotel and giving it away for nothing can really make you feel better inside.

Wow! You did that?

Say no to meth.