Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[StealthEnergiser]

I was just browsing youtube and came across this comment from a lady who's stayed there 7 years ago

"I lived on this island for three months and was planning to stay for good until I had a gun pulled on me and got beaten up by three guys with bats! needless to say I left very quickly the next day! Not a nice place to be!!!! be careful if you are going there!!!

[thailandchilli]

I know I can be a bit condescending to people and we all have our moments but I really am not seeing the kind of hatred, childish emotion, nastiness and unrelated personal attacks that seem to flow from one side. Could be wrong but also haven't seen many posting vacations given to those who believe the right folks are standing trial. Obviously I may have some bias but I also really believe it is not even close to measurable when you look at who is doing the name calling and unrelated personal attacks. Also, look at the likes these posts receive from one side. The more nasty, unrelated and harassing the post, the more likes. I don't watch posters on a personal level and have to assume many are not doing this but just the familiarity with names would indicate the most vocal people are. In further reality, there isn't even that many people still posting in this thread just us people who are either bored or have some other reason to be sitting in front of a computer for way too much time.

Another example and evidence that you've lost touch with reality more than any other poster on this site: As soon as you anxiety levels reach fever pitch you show your true colours;

Yup, a condescending post I made many months ago that is not a personal attack towards anyone nor is it name calling.

However your saving and continued re-posting it because you imagine it means something it doesn't is much more telling about your issues than the fact I admit I can be condescending.

Anxiety levels ... again a far off and illogical assumption. Neither the post you are replying or the one you treasure and save and re-posted had any anxiety attached to them or feeling of anxiety from me. One was simply sarcasm and the other was simply an observation. I have stated numerous times, I have no emotional attachment to this case and I certainly am not going to let an anonymous internet poster upset me. If I find a post too childish and irrational or just too much a bore I will ignore the post, same if I am just not in the mood to deal with nonsense -- other times i mind find it amusing to respond .. such as the case with this post.

I think the B2 and their families would disagree with you on that one, together with the victims families

[DM07]

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

But didn't they organize the frame-up of these two and hasn't it been successful to date or did I miss the news of the case being dismissed?

Yes, although that depends a little, on how you define "successful", I guess!

"Successful" as in "the whole world is laughing -in horror- about the unbelievable fumbles made"?

Or "successful" as in "haven't brought forth a single shred of evidence, that didn't blow up right under their pompous BIB-@r$$es"?

[saminoz]

You should work for TAT JTJ. Can you get a transfer from RTP supporter to TAT spokesperson? Maybe there's a scheme similar to those sterling Tourist Police chappies?

Do I remember rightly, from way back in September when the whole debate started, that you have some interest in a diving outfit or some other business on KT?

This might explain why you are trying to protect the tourist industry, albeit by mistakenly blindly promoting everything the RTP has achieved as viable and correct.

Not speculating, my memory isn't what it once was. This thread has erratically killed off a few brain cells, not that I had too many in the first place!

Very sad if true......

[AleG]

There's also the insults, baseless accusations, character attacks, violations of privacy and threats aimed at silencing people. All in all, not a good showing.

By the way, the prosecution presented the CCTV of "Running Man" as evidence,saying it is Zaw Lin; I think there's a resemblance to that person (specially the very thick hair); but as I said it's not possible to make a 100% match without other corroborative evidence to support the notion.

Thanks Ale -- do you have a link or text string (if it is on a banned site) I can search on regarding Zaw Lin being the running man. The stories I read about the video day in court (assuming this is when it would have been introduced) didn't mention this and I read a few even one which broke down a time line based on the videos which doesn't include what I think would be a relevant thing. So many things get said here that are not backed up by credible reports, often things become facts that have no basis ... want to verify this is not the case with this.

Pol Col Cherdpong also showed the court footage of a small “Asian man” who was seen running back and forth several times between 3am and 5 am on the night of the crime. According to the officer, the man was traveling between the crime scene on the southern part of the beach and a Burmese community nearby.

The defendants' lawyers told Khaosod English that Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo both said they were not the man seen running in the CCTV footage presented to the court.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/koh-tao-trial-resumes-court-shown-footage-of-victims-final-night-53318.php#sthash.Cp3RStl0.dpuf

Based on the above, they didn't name the runner and the lawyers are saying it is neither defendant -- why say both if they prosecutors indicated it was a specific one.

Sorry to interrupt your mutual admiration fest (Aleg types the same crud JTJ "likes" him, JTJ types the usual tripe and, surprise surprise, Aleg likes him right back!! ) again gents but aren't you forgetting that one of the other characters of interest (and NS' uncle) was reported to have immediately come forward and claimed that it was he, and not NS in the "running man" clip? What happened to that little morsel and does anyone have a link to the original post/claim?

No matter how you, in particular, JTJ try constantly to discredit every tiny morsel of the scant CCTV evidence that got past the information blackout, serious questions still remain that just add fire to the speculation and increasing skepticism about the handling of this case by the RTP.

If the RTP were being direct, transparent and forthcoming, shouldn't they investigate the fairly distinctive couple caught on tape in front of "Running Man"?

The apparent & somewhat clumsy altering of just the actual day and month (if I remember correctly) of the time stamp on some CCTV clips purporting to show NS at the university the next morning (the reason I say apparently altered is because the day and month of the time stamp were in a different color and in one case, format (in the middle of the time stamp but inconsistent!) to the rest of the time stamp. It really does look like someone has done a rushed but pretty poor job of making it look like earlier clips were from a time better suited to the "I was in BKK!" alibi, doesn't it? I might suggest that in the first screenshot, someone substituted another day & month to make it look like it was the morning following the crime (it could have been any number of the previous Monday mornings in 2014 up to that weekend). In the second, they seem to have been even more sloppy with the color of the characters but tried to change to make it look as though he was there on the Saturday before the attack too. I assume he must have got his hair cut on Sunday as the hairstyle and length seem somewhat different from the "Saturday" to the "Monday"!

I know that we are on opposite sides of the reality barrier here but, seriously, doesn't any of these issues cause you to have the tiniest, slightest, teeniest little doubt in the integrity of the RTP's investigation?

Just asking, and I have tried to be very, very civil as I just returned from a three day holiday for (I thought) humorously likening someone's intellect to that of a salad vegetable! I fell foul of TVF's own Article 44 measures, it seems!

Ah yes, the "the text is on different colour so it's a fake!" meme.

The only thing demonstrated by that is that 1) You don't know how security cameras work and 2) That people will cling to things that are known to be false no matter what.

It's been explained many, many times, the colors are different because that camera changes the color to provide more contrast with the background, as it was clearly explained by the Thai PBS report on the footage:

https://youtu.be/l4Z1zEjDj7I?t=2m29s

The link goes directly to a part of the video when the colors change as explained before.

As for Mon admitting he was the man on the "Running Man" video it's a case of, again, people jumping to unwarranted assumptions, turning them into facts and using those "facts" to support their theories. The fact is that there was one article where it said "Police have confirmed that Montriwat is the man appeared in the CCTV video footage near the scene and they still did not rule out a possible connection.", it didn't say anywhere what footage from what camera and at what time.

It works like clockwork, someone makes an unwarranted assumption, turns around and says "this fact unwarranted assumption doesn't make sense!, it proves it's all lies!". Well, knock me over with a feather.

So before you go on casting aspersions about the intelligence of other people make sure you are actually right in what you are saying.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

But didn't they organize the frame-up of these two and hasn't it been successful to date or did I miss the news of the case being dismissed?

Because no judge anywhere in the world would dismiss a case before prosecution has presented all its evidence. But that doesnt mean the prosecution case so far isnt a complete shambles.

You really need to think before you post.

Actually cases can and are dismissed prior to prosecution finishing case. If the probably cause the case was based on that got the defendant held for trial (such as DNA) is showed to not be reliable then a motion certainly can be made to dismiss the case. The burden to hold somebody over for trial always has to be met. It is also possible and happens that a prosecutor drops a case that is falling apart such as a key witness changing testimony or not showing.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

But didn't they organize the frame-up of these two and hasn't it been successful to date or did I miss the news of the case being dismissed?

No in no shape or form as the RTP case against the accused up to now been remotely successful . They have had 6 days in court up to now to put forward the case and haven't presented one iota of evidence to even remotely suggest the B2 were involved.. I could list the failures and in some cases massive failures at that. If that is successful to date then you don't live in the real world. Please feel free to show any incidence of this Perfect case !!

The have been in jail 10 months and they are on trial for the crime. By definition any imaginary set-up is to date successful. Unless or until they are freed from these charges, the imagined set-up has worked unless of course your definition of a successful police set-up has nothing to do with those who may have been set-up but only about your opinion and perceptions or some in the public. In that case even if the final outcome is guilty and they are put to death, it still would not be successful in your mind. If that is the case then that is fine but I just was not talking in such abstracts but actual reality.

[StealthEnergiser]

Does anyone know why they couldn't use the police station to conduct the interviews and reverted to a "Safe House" and what is a Safe House. Safe from Screams being heard?

Perhaps it was having major construction carried out at the time??

Just wondering as we had Ali'G JD GB and JTJ around at the moment and between them I am sure we can get a definitive answer

PiggiesMightFly.jpg

Lots of people mad at those responsible for this crime. Not unheard of for locals to swarm a police station when word gets out they have those responsible (why they had them in bullet proof vests and helmets while they reenacted the murders) but then again could have just been a private place where they wanted to possibly use some unconventional methods to get the truth out what they saw as two murdering rapists (animals). Bottom line, doesn't really mean anything to me except the confession "to police" should not hold weight but then again shouldn't in my opinion if they retracted it for any reason. Even if it was recorded, we clearly see a pattern on this thread of not believing video if it goes against what people want to believe. So if they retracted so be it, throw out the confession they gave to the police and let the other evidence including the DNA be used against them.

Wow!

...just wow!

I never read that before correctly how disgraceful and low can some people get.

[saminoz]

Sorry to interrupt your mutual admiration fest (Aleg types the same crud JTJ "likes" him, JTJ types the usual tripe and, surprise surprise, Aleg likes him right back!! ) again gents but aren't you forgetting that one of the other characters of interest (and NS' uncle) was reported to have immediately come forward and claimed that it was he, and not NS in the "running man" clip? What happened to that little morsel and does anyone have a link to the original post/claim?

No matter how you, in particular, JTJ try constantly to discredit every tiny morsel of the scant CCTV evidence that got past the information blackout, serious questions still remain that just add fire to the speculation and increasing skepticism about the handling of this case by the RTP.

If the RTP were being direct, transparent and forthcoming, shouldn't they investigate the fairly distinctive couple caught on tape in front of "Running Man"?

The apparent & somewhat clumsy altering of just the actual day and month (if I remember correctly) of the time stamp on some CCTV clips purporting to show NS at the university the next morning (the reason I say apparently altered is because the day and month of the time stamp were in a different color and in one case, format (in the middle of the time stamp but inconsistent!) to the rest of the time stamp. It really does look like someone has done a rushed but pretty poor job of making it look like earlier clips were from a time better suited to the "I was in BKK!" alibi, doesn't it? I might suggest that in the first screenshot, someone substituted another day & month to make it look like it was the morning following the crime (it could have been any number of the previous Monday mornings in 2014 up to that weekend). In the second, they seem to have been even more sloppy with the color of the characters but tried to change to make it look as though he was there on the Saturday before the attack too. I assume he must have got his hair cut on Sunday as the hairstyle and length seem somewhat different from the "Saturday" to the "Monday"!

I know that we are on opposite sides of the reality barrier here but, seriously, doesn't any of these issues cause you to have the tiniest, slightest, teeniest little doubt in the integrity of the RTP's investigation?

Just asking, and I have tried to be very, very civil as I just returned from a three day holiday for (I thought) humorously likening someone's intellect to that of a salad vegetable! I fell foul of TVF's own Article 44 measures, it seems!

Ah yes, the "the text is on different colour so it's a fake!" meme.

The only thing demonstrated by that is that 1) You don't know how security cameras work and 2) That people will cling to things that are known to be false no matter what.

It's been explained many, many times, the colors are different because that camera changes the color to provide more contrast with the background, as it was clearly explained by the Thai PBS report on the footage:

https://youtu.be/l4Z1zEjDj7I?t=2m29s

The link goes directly to a part of the video when the colors change as explained before.

As for Mon admitting he was the man on the "Running Man" video it's a case of, again, people jumping to unwarranted assumptions, turning them into facts and using those "facts" to support their theories. The fact is that there was one article where it said "Police have confirmed that Montriwat is the man appeared in the CCTV video footage near the scene and they still did not rule out a possible connection.", it didn't say anywhere what footage from what camera and at what time.

It works like clockwork, someone makes an unwarranted assumption, turns around and says "this fact unwarranted assumption doesn't make sense!, it proves it's all lies!". Well, knock me over with a feather.

So before you go on casting aspersions about the intelligence of other people make sure you are actually right in what you are saying.

Very good explanation of the CCTV time stamp issue, thanks.

I had not seen that before (I was probably enjoying some real life as I don't live on here looking to stick my finger in the next dyke, as you can see from my post count, compared to yours , JTJ's et.al.) so I shall have a deeper look.

I'd still like to know about the couple seen on the video in front of the "Running Man", as I am sure you would.

As for casting aspersions? I don't believe I cast a single one in my post!

Do you even know what an aspersion is? Perhaps you are confusing it with asparagus which is, indeed, another vegetable!

Maybe you are referring to the little quip about cucumber IQs that got me a 72 hour rest and thus showing your particular salad sensitivity?

I didn't realize what a delicate little ego you must have.

Sorry for bruising it.

Sincerely.

[glenmohr]

It strikes me as a bit odd that the 2 Burmese commit what is turning out to be the crime of the century and having committed 2 gruesome murders go calmly off to bed.

In the meantime another local identity who had nothing to do with the crime flees the island in a speedboat in the wee dark hours.

Got me baffled. We employed a guy once who was in rehabilitation from being a fairly physical sort of criminal, he told me that when they do the big ones the adrenalin rush is through the roof. The crime is better than drugs were his words, And now we have two midgets who had no practice in the art of murder performing a really big one and calmly going off to bed.

Another poster raised the point about their comradeship and dignity since their arrest. It seems no other prisoner has over heard them quarrelling or telling each other they should not have gone so far etc. Its got me baffled. If Sean could get off the island why could the Burmese not get off the same way, they must have known the Thai authorities would punish them for the murders.

In addition to your first sentance may i add something i find very odd..

After the most dispicable crime, when they are confessing, they were sloshed drunk..

So, you might think under the horriffic circumstances they would forget certain insignificant details, but yet they thought it significant to mention their smoking and drinking wine.

and both these details fit snugly in with the 2 main pieces of evidence.

Now i dont about you, but to see poor Burmese on minimum wage drinking wine? (Also the friend was supposed to have gone back to the accomodation to get more beer)

So now, they've pulled of the crime of the century, while plastered, able to pull the whole thing off, got home safe and sound on bike, in bed by 5am.

then when confessing just happen to casually mention smoking and bottles of wine and..bingo!

And as for the running man in the cctv..well he is running quite effeciently for a 5"guy sloshed on beer and wine...doesnt look drunk at all to me

Bamulkloy you did not mention that there was Hannah's DNA all over one of the cigarettes the culprits were smoking. Now all previous reports indicate that Hannah was a non smoker. But it is easy to explain how her DNA got there, while the 2 midgets were taking turns to bash David with a rusty hoe, which was conveniently lying on the beach at the time, they would have asked Hannah to hold the cigarettes for them, therefore Hannah's DNA is now on the cigarettes. You assume that the running man ( a drunken Burmese) was not drunk, not sure about that but I noticed something odd about the way he carried his left arm, am I seeing things or is it just all in the shadows?

[AleG]

I personally don't trust the translator, he is in bed with police and could also possibly be getting huge kickbacks from certain people to fabricate his statements or other peoples statements, in my opinion anything he has said or quoted is highly unreliable JMO - it is also possible that B2 in isolation had no idea what was being released or about their statements (written in Thai) and alleged confessions to the media, don't forget that translation works both ways and they were likely completely in the dark until they got independent council to tell them exactly what was going on - they should have been given legal council immediately upon their arrest - exactly why this investigation cannot stand up to scrutiny or due process which most of us expect in the west

It's about time Thailand got their criminal justice and police procedures brought up to date and into this century instead of from the dark ages

This sums it up really. You don't trust the translator, you don't trust the RTP, you don't trust DNA labs in Bangkok, just say it out loud. You don't trust Thailand , that's why you and anyone following this case will never believe a word of what any Thai investigator wll tell you.

Even if it is the truth you will never believe. So theres no hope really.

The defense team and their supporters here and elsewhere have made it perfectly clear that they want to turn this case into a case against Thai society in general, Thailand's justice system and the RTP in particular.

Yesterday the OJ Simpson case came up in a debate forum I frequent and the similarities were apparent, that case was fought in the "court of public opinion" exploiting resentment over the police conduct and racial issues; thanks to that, and a sympathetic jury, OJ Simpson walked away free... at least for some years until it was proven in a civil case that he, indeed, had brutally murdered two people.

The morality of the story is that people that want to make this case anything else than the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller and whether the men on trial guilty or innocent have lost the plot.

[Linky]

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

But didn't they organize the frame-up of these two and hasn't it been successful to date or did I miss the news of the case being dismissed?

Because no judge anywhere in the world would dismiss a case before prosecution has presented all its evidence. But that doesnt mean the prosecution case so far isnt a complete shambles.

You really need to think before you post.

Actually cases can and are dismissed prior to prosecution finishing case. If the probably cause the case was based on that got the defendant held for trial (such as DNA) is showed to not be reliable then a motion certainly can be made to dismiss the case. The burden to hold somebody over for trial always has to be met. It is also possible and happens that a prosecutor drops a case that is falling apart such as a key witness changing testimony or not showing.

One is a prosecutor dropping a case, not a judge dismissing a case. So nothing to do with this.

The other one is that dna is basically the only real evidence. In this case the prosecution are not yet finished with dna evidence and are yet to prove chain of custody. In any event, as you say, there is a motion made by defence to dismiss, that is not he same as a judge dimissing the case.

So there is no hope of prosecution dropping the case and the judge will not dismiss it unless defence request.

You really have not said anything. As I said, no JUDGE would dismiss a case prior to prosecution completing evidence.

As dna evidence in this case has not yet finished then it cant be dismissed

[JohnThailandJohn]

I personally don't trust the translator, he is in bed with police and could also possibly be getting huge kickbacks from certain people to fabricate his statements or other peoples statements, in my opinion anything he has said or quoted is highly unreliable JMO - it is also possible that B2 in isolation had no idea what was being released or about their statements (written in Thai) and alleged confessions to the media, don't forget that translation works both ways and they were likely completely in the dark until they got independent council to tell them exactly what was going on - they should have been given legal council immediately upon their arrest - exactly why this investigation cannot stand up to scrutiny or due process which most of us expect in the west

It's about time Thailand got their criminal justice and police procedures brought up to date and into this century instead of from the dark ages

This sums it up really. You don't trust the translator, you don't trust the RTP, you don't trust DNA labs in Bangkok, just say it out loud. You don't trust Thailand , that's why you and anyone following this case will never believe a word of what any Thai investigator wll tell you.

Even if it is the truth you will never believe. So theres no hope really.

It is not a matter of trust with these folks. I don't trust any police department as a whole or any group with power because it is human nature to abuse and take advantage of the power. However, I do believe they have the right people on trial in this case and I don't believe just because police are corrupt they want to see murdering rapist animals go free. Questioning things is not the issue here but rather an anger towards Thailand as a whole and the need to spread this anger and hatred. The focal folks have no concern for the defendants, the victims or justice. They simply have a desperate need to try to bring pain to Thailand and Thais they feel have more power than them and this is seen through the refusal to see the obvious and the outrageous theories including blaming anyone if the fit the bill of being a Thai they dislike. It is a very common theme seen in this thread of the pleasure folks get from the negative attention this case brings Thailand as opposed to any actual reality of the case. Not everyone clearly fits this boat but seems the most vocal conspiracy theory folks it does.

[loonodingle]

Maybe the running man had a stitch. I get that sometimes if I exert myself. In fact quite often I find if I get from one end of soi 6 to the other it is possible to get a stitch several times to the extent I wanna go to my loom and lie down.

[JohnThailandJohn]

It strikes me as a bit odd that the 2 Burmese commit what is turning out to be the crime of the century and having committed 2 gruesome murders go calmly off to bed.

In the meantime another local identity who had nothing to do with the crime flees the island in a speedboat in the wee dark hours.

Got me baffled. We employed a guy once who was in rehabilitation from being a fairly physical sort of criminal, he told me that when they do the big ones the adrenalin rush is through the roof. The crime is better than drugs were his words, And now we have two midgets who had no practice in the art of murder performing a really big one and calmly going off to bed.

Another poster raised the point about their comradeship and dignity since their arrest. It seems no other prisoner has over heard them quarrelling or telling each other they should not have gone so far etc. Its got me baffled. If Sean could get off the island why could the Burmese not get off the same way, they must have known the Thai authorities would punish them for the murders.

In addition to your first sentance may i add something i find very odd..

After the most dispicable crime, when they are confessing, they were sloshed drunk..

So, you might think under the horriffic circumstances they would forget certain insignificant details, but yet they thought it significant to mention their smoking and drinking wine.

and both these details fit snugly in with the 2 main pieces of evidence.

Now i dont about you, but to see poor Burmese on minimum wage drinking wine? (Also the friend was supposed to have gone back to the accomodation to get more beer)

So now, they've pulled of the crime of the century, while plastered, able to pull the whole thing off, got home safe and sound on bike, in bed by 5am.

then when confessing just happen to casually mention smoking and bottles of wine and..bingo!

And as for the running man in the cctv..well he is running quite effeciently for a 5"guy sloshed on beer and wine...doesnt look drunk at all to me

Bamulkloy you did not mention that there was Hannah's DNA all over one of the cigarettes the culprits were smoking. Now all previous reports indicate that Hannah was a non smoker. But it is easy to explain how her DNA got there, while the 2 midgets were taking turns to bash David with a rusty hoe, which was conveniently lying on the beach at the time, they would have asked Hannah to hold the cigarettes for them, therefore Hannah's DNA is now on the cigarettes. You assume that the running man ( a drunken Burmese) was not drunk, not sure about that but I noticed something odd about the way he carried his left arm, am I seeing things or is it just all in the shadows?

Yea, would be completely crazy to think DNA (blood, saliva, skin cells, tissue, sweat ...) could be transferred from the perps hands or lips to the cigarette. But of course if you have an agenda that has nothing to do with truth or facts it makes more sense to put out outrageous implausible theories out there to discount the very obvious and logical explanation for something that is not the least bit mysterious.

[AleG]

The defense team and their supporters here and elsewhere have made it perfectly clear that they want to turn this case into a case against Thai society in general, Thailand's justice system and the RTP in particular.

Yesterday the OJ Simpson case came up in a debate forum I frequent and the similarities were apparent, that case was fought in the "court of public opinion" exploiting resentment over the police conduct and racial issues; thanks to that, and a sympathetic jury, OJ Simpson walked away free... at least for some years until it was proven in a civil case that he, indeed, had brutally murdered two people.

The morality of the story is that people that want to make this case anything else than the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller and whether the men on trial guilty or innocent have lost the plot.

Oh dear, please stop lying.

OJ was not proved to have committed the murders. A civil case does not prove anyone committed a crime, it is a different standard of proof, lesser.

Civil case is preponderence of evidence which just means one side has more evidence than the other, it is not a standard used in criminal law. As such it does not prove he did it, thats why he was acquitted on the murder charges.

So I think you owe an apology to OJ, who I dont care for, and this forum for a deliberate lie.

If your post is the indication of how you think it is little wonder members on here ridicule you and perhaps a good look at yourself in the mirror is warranted.

He was found to be responsible for the deaths of the murder victims, you may want to cling to the finely split straw that verdict doesn't amount to being found guilty of the murders to justify a miscarriage of justice, but I don't place much validity on that sort of specious arguments.

[JohnThailandJohn]

As this hasn't yet been closed perhaps this might bring it back somewhere near topic: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-office-minister-hugo-swire-visitus-burmas-rakhine-state

Typo in your link? Getting to the site but says page not found.

[Rykbanlor]

Did someone just post that the people in support of the defence side on this forum, are basically doing it because they hate Thailand?

I am not going back to paraphrase, but whoever wrote that is sadly way off target. Maybe you are making a sweeping generalisation because some of the chronic Thai-bashers commented (not very intelligently) on the thread.

[Darkknight666]

Thing about conspiracy theorists is they're usually the minority....

[thailandchilli]

It strikes me as a bit odd that the 2 Burmese commit what is turning out to be the crime of the century and having committed 2 gruesome murders go calmly off to bed.

In the meantime another local identity who had nothing to do with the crime flees the island in a speedboat in the wee dark hours.

Got me baffled. We employed a guy once who was in rehabilitation from being a fairly physical sort of criminal, he told me that when they do the big ones the adrenalin rush is through the roof. The crime is better than drugs were his words, And now we have two midgets who had no practice in the art of murder performing a really big one and calmly going off to bed.

Another poster raised the point about their comradeship and dignity since their arrest. It seems no other prisoner has over heard them quarrelling or telling each other they should not have gone so far etc. Its got me baffled. If Sean could get off the island why could the Burmese not get off the same way, they must have known the Thai authorities would punish them for the murders.

In addition to your first sentance may i add something i find very odd..

After the most dispicable crime, when they are confessing, they were sloshed drunk..

So, you might think under the horriffic circumstances they would forget certain insignificant details, but yet they thought it significant to mention their smoking and drinking wine.

and both these details fit snugly in with the 2 main pieces of evidence.

Now i dont about you, but to see poor Burmese on minimum wage drinking wine? (Also the friend was supposed to have gone back to the accomodation to get more beer)

So now, they've pulled of the crime of the century, while plastered, able to pull the whole thing off, got home safe and sound on bike, in bed by 5am.

then when confessing just happen to casually mention smoking and bottles of wine and..bingo!

And as for the running man in the cctv..well he is running quite effeciently for a 5"guy sloshed on beer and wine...doesnt look drunk at all to me

Bamulkloy you did not mention that there was Hannah's DNA all over one of the cigarettes the culprits were smoking. Now all previous reports indicate that Hannah was a non smoker. But it is easy to explain how her DNA got there, while the 2 midgets were taking turns to bash David with a rusty hoe, which was conveniently lying on the beach at the time, they would have asked Hannah to hold the cigarettes for them, therefore Hannah's DNA is now on the cigarettes. You assume that the running man ( a drunken Burmese) was not drunk, not sure about that but I noticed something odd about the way he carried his left arm, am I seeing things or is it just all in the shadows?

Yea, would be completely crazy to think DNA (blood, saliva, skin cells, tissue, sweat ...) could be transferred from the perps hands or lips to the cigarette. But of course if you have an agenda that has nothing to do with truth or facts it makes more sense to put out outrageous implausible theories out there to discount the very obvious and logical explanation for something that is not the least bit mysterious.

Can blood, sweat, skin cells, tissue fly 50 to 60 meters through the air onto the butts where they were found by the log. Apparently so if we believe your theory but then I guess you do have an agenda

[loonodingle]

I agree with Sonthi.. Can someone post it again I cant find it..

In fact when a heavyweight like Sonthis speaks out then there must be substance. I don't see NS or the RTP taking him to court either. Still they must know they would lose

[Rykbanlor]

I agree with Sonthi.. Can someone post it again I cant find it..

In fact when a heavyweight like Sonthis speaks out then there must be substance. I don't see NS or the RTP taking him to court either. Still they must know they would lose

Let me provide some likely answers = He's just politicising it for his own gain, or, That guy has no credibility, look at his past.

Someone should be along shortly to provide these, or other defle, answers.

[thailandchilli]

I agree with Sonthi.. Can someone post it again I cant find it..

In fact when a heavyweight like Sonthis speaks out then there must be substance. I don't see NS or the RTP taking him to court either. Still they must know they would lose

With the greatest of pleasure

And heres the one from the UK police again who traveled to Thailand

[smedly]

There's also the insults, baseless accusations, character attacks, violations of privacy and threats aimed at silencing people. All in all, not a good showing.

By the way, the prosecution presented the CCTV of "Running Man" as evidence,saying it is Zaw Lin; I think there's a resemblance to that person (specially the very thick hair); but as I said it's not possible to make a 100% match without other corroborative evidence to support the notion.

Thanks Ale -- do you have a link or text string (if it is on a banned site) I can search on regarding Zaw Lin being the running man. The stories I read about the video day in court (assuming this is when it would have been introduced) didn't mention this and I read a few even one which broke down a time line based on the videos which doesn't include what I think would be a relevant thing. So many things get said here that are not backed up by credible reports, often things become facts that have no basis ... want to verify this is not the case with this.

Pol Col Cherdpong also showed the court footage of a small “Asian man” who was seen running back and forth several times between 3am and 5 am on the night of the crime. According to the officer, the man was traveling between the crime scene on the southern part of the beach and a Burmese community nearby.

The defendants' lawyers told Khaosod English that Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo both said they were not the man seen running in the CCTV footage presented to the court.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/koh-tao-trial-resumes-court-shown-footage-of-victims-final-night-53318.php#sthash.Cp3RStl0.dpuf

Based on the above, they didn't name the runner and the lawyers are saying it is neither defendant -- why say both if they prosecutors indicated it was a specific one.

Sorry to interrupt your mutual admiration fest (Aleg types the same crud JTJ "likes" him, JTJ types the usual tripe and, surprise surprise, Aleg likes him right back!! ) again gents but aren't you forgetting that one of the other characters of interest (and NS' uncle) was reported to have immediately come forward and claimed that it was he, and not NS in the "running man" clip? What happened to that little morsel and does anyone have a link to the original post/claim?

No matter how you, in particular, JTJ try constantly to discredit every tiny morsel of the scant CCTV evidence that got past the information blackout, serious questions still remain that just add fire to the speculation and increasing skepticism about the handling of this case by the RTP.

If the RTP were being direct, transparent and forthcoming, shouldn't they investigate the fairly distinctive couple caught on tape in front of "Running Man"?

The apparent & somewhat clumsy altering of just the actual day and month (if I remember correctly) of the time stamp on some CCTV clips purporting to show NS at the university the next morning (the reason I say apparently altered is because the day and month of the time stamp were in a different color and in one case, format (in the middle of the time stamp but inconsistent!) to the rest of the time stamp. It really does look like someone has done a rushed but pretty poor job of making it look like earlier clips were from a time better suited to the "I was in BKK!" alibi, doesn't it? I might suggest that in the first screenshot, someone substituted another day & month to make it look like it was the morning following the crime (it could have been any number of the previous Monday mornings in 2014 up to that weekend). In the second, they seem to have been even more sloppy with the color of the characters but tried to change to make it look as though he was there on the Saturday before the attack too. I assume he must have got his hair cut on Sunday as the hairstyle and length seem somewhat different from the "Saturday" to the "Monday"!

I know that we are on opposite sides of the reality barrier here but, seriously, doesn't any of these issues cause you to have the tiniest, slightest, teeniest little doubt in the integrity of the RTP's investigation?

Just asking, and I have tried to be very, very civil as I just returned from a three day holiday for (I thought) humorously likening someone's intellect to that of a salad vegetable! I fell foul of TVF's own Article 44 measures, it seems!

the only thing I see questionable is in the first pic the month figure (9) font is completely different from both pictures.

[glenmohr]

Actually there have been numerous times defendants have been attacked while doing reenactments especially when it comes to these types of horrible crimes. Each time it happens there are demands the police stop doing these reenactments, at least announcing them in advance.

Exactly............. now u r seeing the story. Its normal to attack as the Thais feel it is necessary......... However they didn't. Not 1 stone or one person spitting or shouting.......Zilchhhhhh nil. zero

I am not sure what you are trying to say. The only thing I take away from the is that sometimes people act badly and sometimes they don't along with the fact that taking security precautions often deter people from acting badly. Now doubt there would be a lot of leaders around the world killed if they didn't have the security in place they do to deter people from acting against them, especially emotionally charged individuals who might otherwise not give pause if security was lax.

You are so far out of touch with reality, it isn't even funny anymore...or even the opposite, I don't know!

Security precautions keeping an angry mob from shouting or showing their disgust for the "animals" in any other way?

Thais, even more so?

Did you watch the reenactment?

It almost went in complete silence!

Do you know, what that was?

That was a STATEMENT!

Far more powerful, than you obviously can imagine!

These people knew, they were watching an absurd version of the Muppet Show!

That's why no sound was heard!

Not because of "security measures" by the RTP, who can usually not organize a peepee-up in a brewery!

I was just about to make the same point DM07, but you got there first.

Right around the world, it is quite common for boos, hisses or jeers to be heard when the chief suspects appear publicly following a gruesome murder/ rape.

These 2 Burmese have been greeted by silence on their many many public appearances, I wonder why? The only sounds have been the audible gasps at the audacity of the RTP to suggest we are all mentally defective with their deliberate and continuous obstruction of justice..

[glenmohr]

Stingray Man

compelling and very hard to account for these wounds other than that ring

except perhaps for the lack of obvious bruising made by the fist behind the ring . does death stop bruising coming out ?

on the other hand , sees odd that many of the usual suspects no longer seem to see on his list of facebook friends , wonder if they have distanced then selves from him .

Yes Chetzee, correct. Once the heart stops there is no further bruising

[loonodingle]

By the way I just cant wait until the defence take the lead in the trial.............. God I am sat on the edge my chair... knowing that we may at least get some more precise facts and genuine results.

[loonodingle]

Stingray Man

compelling and very hard to account for these wounds other than that ring

except perhaps for the lack of obvious bruising made by the fist behind the ring . does death stop bruising coming out ?

on the other hand , sees odd that many of the usual suspects no longer seem to see on his list of facebook friends , wonder if they have distanced then selves from him .

Yes Chetzee, correct. Once the heart stops there is no further bruising

I think your barking up the wrong tree about that daft ring. Really I do.. those injuries have been done with an implement not some ring on a finger that twists around etc. A hand held weapon that's is used to stab and hack. Just Look at David's Head for example. That's a hacking injury. The autopsy will reveal bone damage as it includes X-Rays.

[StealthEnergiser]

[bamukloy]

Just a personal experience. ive been following this case for some time and althroughout ive never mentioned this to the GF as she is typical Thai and doesnt like to dwell on the bad stuff.

Just today we are watching the tv news and as a test, i ask

how come you never hear anything about kho tao?

Now i fully expected her to say what about kho thao and no nothing of it..

No! Straight away She says..evryone knows the cops are no good there and its all BS. Prayuth just wants everyone to shut up and forget it, for the good of the country.

straight away my first thought is to ask should the parents forget? Would you forget if it were your kid?

But the penny dropped for me just seeing the look on her face.

no-one likes or is proud of this. In true typical thai style they just want to pretend it didnt happen so it might go away.

The clueless cops who drew the short straw and got sent in to the trial to "carry the dolly", they dont want a bar of it, hence the "i don know" answers.

No-on in the court wants a bar of it either as hints already it will be passed on to appeal.

so what do you think will happen?

She looks at me as if to say derrr....the same thing as always, the cops will play dumb and BS when they have to..until eventually someone in the system will be forced to make a decision..

i guess by that time everyone will be sick of it and it will go away with the B2 acquitted because of international pressure and the last thing the Bib will do is reopen the case.

Sadly,it is what it is. The thais seem to have accepted the whole thing that way, since there is not a jot anyone can do about it and the same would have applied if the victims were Thai.

so as others have stated, this will get played out the thai way. 600 pages of farang outrage on thaivisa wont change anything.

I Fear we are all wasting our time, especially those commenting abou legal procedure and standards in our own countries..all of that doesnt mean diddly-squat here.

They can deal wit it any way they want as theres no-one to tap them on the shoulder