Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[StealthEnergiser]

He found a metal part of a shovel, a wooden stick, and three cigarette butts about 60m north of Witheridge.

A used condom, grey pants with a belt, a pair of canvas shoes, and a pair of pink sandals were piled neatly nearby.

What, was he dreaming when he said this, piled neatly nearby...............

it seems that these photo's got out before the scene was re arranged .

It's all becoming a little clearer now. I maybe understand now why it took the police so long to arrive after the call was made to them.

I also remember on one of the videos where the hoe was being dusted by forensics it looked like it was in a different position that some photo's i think one of the glee club tried to say I was wrong. will look it up later.

[GOLDBUGGY]

A lot of things seem to have been forgotten now all of the focus is on the dna - or lack thereof. The person on the CCTV who looked remarkably like a "local" who was claiming to be in BKK (and on their cctv the next day). The argument in the bar, the taxi driver who was beaten by the police for refusing to give a false statement saying he witnessed the whole thing.. and etc...

I to am looking forward to the Defense Team bringing all this evidence out in court and providing the witnesses to prove it. This should help there case.

[Yann55]

Quote : Concern that the men were tortured by police originated with advocates for migrant workers, who are often abused and mistreated without the safeguard of rights held by Thai citizens.

Correction : Concern that the men were tortured by police originated with advocates for migrant workers, who are often abused and mistreated without the safeguard of rights held by rich Thai citizens.

[docshock13]

A lot of things seem to have been forgotten now all of the focus is on the dna - or lack thereof. The person on the CCTV who looked remarkably like a "local" who was claiming to be in BKK (and on their cctv the next day). The argument in the bar, the taxi driver who was beaten by the police for refusing to give a false statement saying he witnessed the whole thing.. and etc...

I to am looking forward to the Defense Team bringing all this evidence out in court and providing the witnesses to prove it. This should help there case.

Inflammatory post self-removed.

Original post contained language and content not suitable for viewing audiences and those who cannot read, write, spell or think for themselves.

Apologies to all.

Edited July 10, 2015 by docshock13

[GOLDBUGGY]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Well, I did. Darn near got crucified here for even suggesting that.

People in these parts don't cater to strangers having a different opinion. So forget about free speech here. They much prefer you join by coming up with some conspiracy theory. The Bigger the Better.

[Chetzee]

Andy hall tweets .. no forensic examination of dan from Hannha , just in

[minikev]

I didn't think there was any DNA evidence to retest, we are told it is lost.

The "less important" DNA eg. from the cigarette butt is used up or maybe lost. The more important DNA is supposedly safe in Bangkok.

The red L&M cigarette butt or butts was the reason for the police to knock on the B2's door as they were supposed to have bought L&M red that evening. I'd say they are quite important pieces of evidence.

Looks like having a Fag on the beach makes you a murderer then??

The important stuff like the semen samples not available. Don't get knocked off course Kev. It could of been you who had a fag that night and now locked up after you gave in to repeated torture. Just remember there was 3 DNA profile from Hannah as well. 2 are in the dock accused of being the guilty people.

I presume by 3 DNA profile from Hannah you mean DNA from 3 people. This has been discussed on this forum many times, there was 2 DNA profiles taken from 3 samples from Hannah's body according to a televised interview with the pathologist. I don't believe the 2 people on trial did anything other than smoke a few cigarettes drink a few too many beers sing a couple of songs and go home to sleep. In the back of my mind I do however wonder if they saw something.

Anyway I am not getting knocked off course, It is not possible that the cigarette butts are all used up, as others have stated they could be used many many more times for DNA analysis. The fact that the police are saying they are not available for the defence to use to make their own tests speaks volumes.

There seems to be 2 camps on this forum, those that support the police and those that support the B2. The RTP supporters are selective with replies and seem to ignore common sense and the B2 supporters seem to use all reports to strengthen there own theories which usually incriminate other people. I don't believe the B2 did this and I don't know who did so I'm not in either camp. I really wish there could be a real and thorough investigation with no political or financial agenda. I think we all know by now this case has gone too far down this road and the powers that be need to either convict these 2 poor sods or simply throw it out on a lack of evidence and hope no one notices. Either way no justice for Hannah and David. The families will live with the pain on a daily basis for the rest of their lives.

I can't imagine how I would feel if this were to happen to any of my children and however powerful government officials and policemen become they should think how they would feel if it were to happen to one of their children because if they know the B2 didn't do this crime that means they are protecting and allowing the freedom of the people that did do it. This or these people will with their new power of knowing they can get away with it will of course do it again. Who knows who's child is next.

[Alwyn]

A lot of things seem to have been forgotten now all of the focus is on the dna - or lack thereof. The person on the CCTV who looked remarkably like a "local" who was claiming to be in BKK (and on their cctv the next day). The argument in the bar, the taxi driver who was beaten by the police for refusing to give a false statement saying he witnessed the whole thing.. and etc...

I to am looking forward to the Defense Team bringing all this evidence out in court and providing the witnesses to prove it. This should help there case.

In a real country with a proper law enforcement and legal system it's not the innocent's job to prove innocence, it's the prosecutor's job to prove guilt (you know, proven until proven guilty?) all the defence has to do is prove the police and prosecutors don't have a case - for reasons that have been discussed here and elsewhere.

[bamukloy]

As strange as it seems to western standards, one could argue that having independent laypersons on the scene, photographing all and sundry..can provide the advantage of social media holding the Thai police to some accountability.

If they had closed off the crime scene properly, then they would have been free to alter whatever evidence they wanted to..

IF that was their agenda..(im not saying it was)..

without ANY scrutiny.

One could also argue hypothetically, that this fits in with the powers that be saying they will "improve" the process of how Thai law enforcement agencys collect evidence.

l

Edited July 10, 2015 by bamukloy

[Jimlove]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Well, I did. Darn near got crucified here for even suggesting that.

People in these parts don't cater to strangers having a different opinion. So forget about free speech here. They much prefer you join by coming up with some conspiracy theory. The Bigger the Better.

People just dont like dirty RTP from Koh Toilet ...

[happy Joe]

JDinasia's throws out 'conspiracy theorist' when he's/she's flummoxed, and can't think of anything else to say.

If looking for a conspiracy, look no further than a couple of RTP top brass and perhaps Mon and a few others in there with them. They thought they could stitch up a plausible scenario - which would nail the scapegoats. More importantly, divert attention away from the origianal two prime suspects. But now their mean-spirited ruse is unraveling - in front of the world.

As for the prosecutor who was recently murdered: I'll re-state my prior questions, in the hope someone can answer them: Was he involved with this case? And if so, did he indicate any wavering from the required company line? If so, we'll never know, because nefarious people have devious means of killing people. At those islands, it seems common for people to get away with murder, literally.

Assertion grossly ridiculous as most of your posts. You do not have any specific evidence to judge and yet you judge, and always one-sided. This is exactly what is called the theory of conspiracy.

IMHO I do not think possible that the police have fabricated false evidence with the sole purpose to spare notable. I think so but I'm not 100% sure. So I expect that this trial confirms this feeling based on logic.

you should do the same...

[GOLDBUGGY]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Of course I've considered that remote possibility. But their size and their confession along with the reenactment made no sense. If someone could come up with a plausible explanation for how those two tiny men, who were undoubtedly very tired and probably fairly drunk managed to overpower a man much bigger than them and have him sustain the wounds he did while they suffered none, while at the same time ensuring that Hannah did not escape then I might consider it possible. But instead we have had nonsensical story after story from the RTP.

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

[balo]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

[Chetzee]

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

what planet r u on ..... most uni students do nothing but drink for 2 out of 3 years !

[Fat Haggis]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Of course I've considered that remote possibility. But their size and their confession along with the reenactment made no sense. If someone could come up with a plausible explanation for how those two tiny men, who were undoubtedly very tired and probably fairly drunk managed to overpower a man much bigger than them and have him sustain the wounds he did while they suffered none, while at the same time ensuring that Hannah did not escape then I might consider it possible. But instead we have had nonsensical story after story from the RTP.

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

.

Your making a lot of assumptions there

[Fat Haggis]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

And equally they could be very innocent, not easy for the RTP apologists here to understand .

[bamukloy]

As for the prospect of even one of these guys pulling off this crime...

Not wanting to be crude, but if a male victim was laying on top of a female victim, in a certain act, then even if one midget sneaks up from behind them with a hoe..

well...it doesnt take much imagination. A very long,heavy instrument with a very long and wide swinging ark...as the first blow..

As i have said, i havent got a horse in this race, but im suprised that the "tiny feeble asian against a big westerner" crowd cant think outside of the

box,

Or at least cant think of scenarios outside of their own superiorority complexes.

[Basil B]

So DNA Analysis was taken from condoms at the crime scene. Do we really believe a rapist would use a condom especially in the environment concerned?

If they had the sense to use a condom they would not have left it lying around...

[changnaam]

Some recent posts talk of a large blow from a hoe. Did you not see the wounds on David from a small , sharp instrument? There were many photos around in the early days.

[gchurch259]

From a Defense stand point the PM issuing any such statement prejudiced the entire Judicial System. I like him but he should have kept his mouth shut.

These men should be taken to the bounder, released and then the Police will find the real killer/killers.

We have suspects and we will be presented with evidence in court. If they are not good enough the "boys" will be set free,

No they will never be set free.

The judges will decide if guilty. Not a public jury. The PM has publicly declared that he has looked at the evidence and that they are guilty.

It's done, finished, over, before it has even begun. This is just for show so Thailand can show and say that there was a fair trial and they were found guilty fairly. What actually happens in the trial doesn't matter a jot to the outcome that is already decided.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Of course I've considered that remote possibility. But their size and their confession along with the reenactment made no sense. If someone could come up with a plausible explanation for how those two tiny men, who were undoubtedly very tired and probably fairly drunk managed to overpower a man much bigger than them and have him sustain the wounds he did while they suffered none, while at the same time ensuring that Hannah did not escape then I might consider it possible. But instead we have had nonsensical story after story from the RTP.

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

Was David a Marital Arts Expert or Kick Boxer? Does he have a history of violence and got into a lot of fights? Was he even expecting to be hit over the head with a Garden Hoe when he was standing Butt Naked? Maybe turned his head to see what was happening to Hannah, and they got that one lucky hit in, that crippled him. Was it a fist fight or did one have a weapon, which always makes this not a fair fight? What history does the accused have for violence and fighting skills?

I think someone else here describe it best. He said a 14 year old kid could beat you to death if he was holding a garden hoe and you had nothing to defend yourself with. David had defensive wounds so he obviously tried. But I tend to agree with that. But is okay if you don't. As both are just honest opinions. .

.

Your making a lot of assumptions there

I am sorry but all my statements ended with a Question Marks, as I was asking you a question. I was doing that because you made the "assumption" that these 2 tiny men couldn't overpower 1 larger man. So I thought maybe you knew that David had special fighting skills, and his sobriety at the time or knew the accused background and fighting skills, to make such an assumption.

But, I guess not.

[berybert]

The defense is doing its job. Mounting a vigorous defense for the 2 Burmese defendants.

But nothing that they are saying to the press is actually important. I am really interested in seeing what they offer into actual evidence.

The defense is doing nothing, how can you claim they are mounting a vigorous defense ? So far the prosecution is doing the defense teams job for them.

I was going to mention the fact every time the prosecution team, the RTP, and their supporters on here open their mouths they make the defenses job easier for them.

I notice AleG has had enough of trying to defend the indefensible, You are keeping a low profile yet when you do say anything it seems to be nothing.

What do you think of the RTP asking the defense not to do their job ? Stop defending them and defend the RTP ! How <deleted> up do you need to be to even think about saying something like that. Yet that is the RTP's version of justice.

[Basil B]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

Could...

But with so much conflicting reports from the police if you really do think they are guilty "beyond all reasonable doubt" then probably you believe in Farther Christmas too.

I am no Thai Basher but I do think it is time the Thai's sorted out the rampant corruption within the Kingdom.

[GOLDBUGGY]

And what condition was David when it has been proven he was drinking all night with friends, and probably not used to a lot of alcohol, being young and a University Student?

what planet r u on ..... most uni students do nothing but drink for 2 out of 3 years !

David was studying Engineering at University. I did that to, but many years ago now. But what I can remember and tell you is that is a very difficult course to pass. Anyone who drinks a lot and doesn't study wouldn't make it past his term, let alone 2 years.

David was also only 25 years old. At that age I could get drunk on a 6 pack. Now, I could drink almost anyone under that table when I set my mind to it. Certainly anyone who is a 25 years old university student. Of this I am sure!

[sgtsabai]

and now we have a couple of more shills for the Koh Tao/mafia/police showing up. Gee, outnumbered by those with more than 1 working brain cell, needed some help? Wonder how many post under different AKA? You "people" are like faux (not the) news. Only the Goebbels technique won't work here. Even if these young men were black in the south of the US this case would have never gone to court.

[cumgranosalum]

Any trial... No matter what the system, has to demonstrate rational thought and deduction as well as an orderly scientific procedure

It seems that many on this thread don't grasp this and feel that by arguing about evidence and theories of what might have happened, they are somehow participating in the debate... This is incorrect and they are in fact just clouding the real issues... They are behaving just like the Thai authorities and helping them to get away with a tragic farce masquerading as justice

[sgtsabai]

I forgot to add, by the time I was 21 I was an old man, Vietnam does that to people.

[berybert]

Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan is actually a highly respected forensic scientist and is independant. She has worked on numerous cases and has, in the past, turned police cases upside down by showing evidence that the parties were infact innocent. A good step for the case, either way.

Issue remains, where is the British police report?

She lost her credibility with her repeated endorsement of the fake bomb detectors even after they had been proven to be a total fraud.

The British police report is not and cannot be part of this Thai judiclal procedure. Stop holding your breath.

Oh, the tired argument about the bomb detectors. Bomb detectors aren't her specialty. That's what military experts are supposed to do, and Thai military experts were completely wrong, even when the rest of the world knew the detectors were useless, expensive scams. Her specialty is crime forensics.

And to try and thwart Brit experts' findings on forensics - show you to be another apologist for Thai officialdom's many mistakes. Are you also shielding the Headman's family members who were, and still should be prime suspects?

The GT200 was supposed to be a forensic tool. Something that could detect trace evidence. It certainly could not do that.

Khunying Pornthip was supposed to be the best forensic expert in Thailand. Her continued support for the GT200 most certainly damaged her credibility.

You support a police murder case that has lost evidence, has no credibility in the eyes of the world. If this woman was on the prosecution team you would be defending her with every post you make.

Yet you want to see the Burnese convicted. A fair trial.

[StealthEnergiser]

If it is true that police have stated to the judges that Hannah's and davids clothes were neatly stacked and it looked like they may have had sex .

Also the hoe did not look like it had blood on it when forensics tested it going by a youtube.

There is a big possibility a person took the photos of the scattered clothes and bloody hoe and put them online before the crime scene was inspected by forensics.

It looks like the crime scene inspected by forensics had a clean hoe and neatly stacked clothes I may be wrong but it looks that way to me.

I think people may have been trying to stop this from coming out possibly certain people have knowledge on this forum but i have no idea.

It makes me wonder if the defence and andy hall have actually seen the photo's of scattered clothing and a bloody hoe I think they would have .

This doesn't look good and makes people more suspicious of this whole trial and some posters.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Has anyone considered the remote possibility that the burmese pair actually did commit this gruesome crime ? The very first thing that any s***bag defence lawyer is going to do is instruct his clients to retract their confession and say it was obtained through beating. Just a thought. I have fired numerous staff in this country for theft, and never has one admitted it, and to look at them you would think them so sweet and pure they would be incapable of any wrongdoing. Hopefully real evidence will shed some light on the situation.

Well, I did. Darn near got crucified here for even suggesting that.

People in these parts don't cater to strangers having a different opinion. So forget about free speech here. They much prefer you join by coming up with some conspiracy theory. The Bigger the Better.

People just dont like dirty RTP from Koh Toilet ...

Do you see what I mean now phantomfiddler?