Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[smedly]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

How high does this really go? you ask. My answer is, How high can it go? In there lies your answer.

The answer is simple - chain of command, the PM lifts the phone and talks with the Chief of Police, he tells him I need this sorted asap as I am being pressured directly by the British PM, the Chief of police reviews the case and sends someone he believes will take over and get a result, neither the PM or the COP will have instructed anyone to look for scape goats but will have been very direct in requiring progress and a resolution as quickly as possible - that is how I see it

[BoristheBlade]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

How high does this really go? you ask. My answer is, How high can it go? In there lies your answer.

No headman has enough influence to have all this done for his family......this is far bigger....what is hidden? something very sinister

[stickylies]

Small islands controlled by maffia, drugs, youngsters in overdrive, bikinis, macho Thai men... yeah sounds sinister to me.

[BritTim]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

How high does this really go? you ask. My answer is, How high can it go? In there lies your answer.

No headman has enough influence to have all this done for his family......this is far bigger....what is hidden? something very sinister

What I believe is that rich and influential figures were able to ensure any attempts to implicate them were blocked at the local level. Pressure from above for quick results lead to the decision to use scapegoats. Once that decision was made, it became impossible to reverse. (By the way, the promotion of Lt Gen Panya Mamen was irrelevant).

[a99az]

Well well what do you know when the police have to put up or shut up they have absolutely <deleted> all worth a rub. So I guess we will soon see an eye whiteness step forward for the police or who knows some Devine intervention to provide them with a conviction. After all they can't be seen to be what they are and I can't say it or I could be arrested too. Thailand is a scary place these days.

[stickylies]

Thailand afterdark has always been a scary place imo. I'm not talking about adult-disneyland known as Pattaya or Phuket. The nights here are immoral and vicious (I can speak for the South which I have travelled thoroughly, also at night). Wolves and vultures. Any local will confirm.

[loonodingle]

Well well what do you know when the police have to put up or shut up they have absolutely <deleted> all worth a rub. So I guess we will soon see an eye whiteness step forward for the police or who knows some Devine intervention to provide them with a conviction. After all they can't be seen to be what they are and I can't say it or I could be arrested too. Thailand is a scary place these days.

Welcome to the fold O Enlightened One.

[boomerangutang]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them

The promotion of Lt Gen Panya Mamen, and his replacement with Maj Gen Decha Budnampeth is a red herring. It has been an unwelcome distraction from proper investigation by those who (like me) are convinced the Burmese kids are innocent scapegoats. Panya was complicit in the decision to look for scapegoats. For instance, look at this report from around the time of the promotion: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murders-arrest-in-2-3-days-police-48958.php.

Panya, the original head cop, was initially following leads to where they led, which is what an investigator is supposed to do. He and his crew didn't look at many things which could have aided in the investigation (phone records, CCTV, laundry facilities, clothes at or near crime scene, local airline manifests, money transfers, person's of interest), but we expect such omissions in a Thai crime investigation. Even so, Panya was trying to do a decent job. However, he was being directed by higher ups in Bkk to not be concerned with any suspects connected to the Headman, and concurrently try as hard as possible to indict Burmese migrants. This he did (reluctantly? We don't know. He's not speaking, and even if he did speak up, he would be required to toe the police line) . With all that pressure from Bkk, Panya fingered the Burmese, but the water was under the bridge, so he was yanked off the job, given a promotion, and put at a desk job in Bkk and told not to talk about the crime or the investigation. A higher ranking police General put himself in charge, and earlier prime suspects were never looked at again. Anyone connected to the Headman are permanently off the hook.

[fish fingers]

I read that Jack Hansen-Bartel (who was seriously beaten up by two chinese rich kids in Samui) is acting as translator. If this is true, that kid deserves some kind of medal of bravery

[cookee68]

Lack of Evidence, Local Media Coverage Adds to Mystery of Koh Tao Murder

By Khaosod English

Police bring Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to Koh Samui court on 9 July 2015.

BANGKOK — The first week of the trial of two Burmese men accused of murdering British tourists on a Thai island last year has done little to shed light on a case that has been shrouded in mystery from the start.

Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, both 22, have been charged with murder, rape, and theft over the deaths of British travelers David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23. The tourists’ badly beaten bodies were found on Koh Tao’s Sairee beach in the early morning of 15 September 2014.

The gruesome murder shocked the idyllic resort island and captured the attention of the foreign press, who detailed polices’ every stumble in a wayward investigation that ended with the arrest of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo several weeks later.

The suspects initially confessed after being interrogated by police without a professional interpreter or lawyer, but later declared their innocence and said they were tortured. They could face the death penalty if convicted.

Suspicions that the Burmese men were used as scapegoats to wrap up a case that was threatening to harm Thailand’s tourist industry were compounded last year by reports of locals refusing the speak to journalists, citing fears of “powerful families” on the 21 km2 island.

Despite hopes that the first round of witness examinations in a court on nearby Koh Samui last week would provide clarity on the murder, questions remain about police’s alleged “watertight” case, and rumors about a suspected cover-up continue to flourish.

'Used up evidence'

In response to the defense team’s repeated calls for access to forensic evidence that the prosecution says links Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the rape and murder, police revealed in court that swabs taken from semen found in Witheridge’s body are no longer available because they were “used up” in the original testing, which was conducted privately.

“For police to say they don’t have these materials completely undermines the credibility of their investigation,” said Andy Hall, a migrants' rights activist from the UK who is assisting the defendants.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626

-- Khaosod English 2015-07-13

How did this half blind beach cleaner know where the hoe came from originally to be able to return it back there?

[loonodingle]

^{These are worth a read in order below}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1410768025&section=12}

^{Island On Lockdown After Gruesome Murder of British Tourists}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1410951357&section=12}

^{Autopsy of Murdered Britons Shows Struggle, Drowning}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1410943513&section=12}

^{Police Misidentify Murdered Britons in CCTV Footage}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411039863&section=12}

^{Prayuth Apologises For 'Bikini Remark,' Shifts Blame to Migrant Workers}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411120709&section=12}

^{Britons' Murder: Lacking Evidence, Police Target Burmese Migrants}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411277826}

^{BANGKOK — Thailand’s chief of police says DNA tests reveal that two “Asians” were behind the murder of British tourists on a resort island in southern Thailand last week.}

^{"The DNA tests reveal that the two culprits are Asians," said Pol.Gen. Somyot Pumpanmuang after visiting the crime scene on Koh Tao yesterday. "We will try to find the culprits for prosecution in a timely manner."}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411635247&section=12 Island leader's son goes from 'primary suspect' to 'innocent' in a day}

^{Police hunt down the 22-year-old son of a local village leader on Koh Tao, who they say fled the island shortly after the murder and is now a "primary suspect." On the following day, he is cleared of a connection to the case because police determine that he was in Bangkok at the time}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1411463212&section=12}

^{BANGKOK — Thailand’s new police chief has brushed off media reports that there is "mafia" network on the resort island in Southern Thailand where two British tourists were murdered last week}

^{.http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1412314798}

^{Police Say Forensic Tests Implicate 2 Burmese in Koh Tao Murder}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1413896452}

^{Koh Tao Murder Suspects Retract Confessions, Describe Torture}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1415711380&section=12}

^{The United Kingdom dispatches a team of detectives to observe the murder investigation after human rights groups raised concerns about Thai police’s handling of the case. The three UK police officials said they were granted 'observer status' to limited parts of the investigation, did not provide any advice or assistance, and relied on a translator provided by Thai police}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436360221&typecate=06&section=}

^{Year in Prison Has Been 'Torture,' Says Koh Tao Suspect}

^{http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1436774626}

^{Court approves re-test of remaining evidence}

^{The court approves a re-testing of the limited forensic evidence still available, which includes a shoe, sock, bags, and the bloodied garden hoe found nearby. Police say that other key evidence, including DNA samples taken from Witheridge's body and cigarettes found near the crime scene, are no longer availabe because they were "used up" during the original testing}

^{May They R.I.P and May Justice Be Served}

[a99az]

Well well what do you know when the police have to put up or shut up they have absolutely <deleted> all worth a rub. So I guess we will soon see an eye whiteness step forward for the police or who knows some Devine intervention to provide them with a conviction. After all they can't be seen to be what they are and I can't say it or I could be arrested too. Thailand is a scary place these days.

Welcome to the fold O Enlightened One.

No thanks I moved out two years ago when having lived there for a few years I released that to live in Thailand one could not expect to see real justice or be treated in any way other than a foreigner / sucker ready to be taken advantage of.

[IslandLover]

I don't know if this has been posted already (too many pages to plough through in this thread) but here is a photo of a recent article from the Sun newspaper as well as a quote from Sky News journalist, Jonathan Samuels:

“Thickset, menacing-looking Thai men hang around the court, glaring at witnesses and western journalists. We are told some are police officers in plain clothes.”

[BritTim]

Panya, the original head cop, was initially following leads to where they led, which is what an investigator is supposed to do. He and his crew didn't look at many things which could have aided in the investigation (phone records, CCTV, laundry facilities, clothes at or near crime scene, local airline manifests, money transfers, person's of interest), but we expect such omissions in a Thai crime investigation. Even so, Panya was trying to do a decent job. However, he was being directed by higher ups in Bkk to not be concerned with any suspects connected to the Headman, and concurrently try as hard as possible to indict Burmese migrants. This he did (reluctantly? We don't know. He's not speaking, and even if he did speak up, he would be required to toe the police line) . With all that pressure from Bkk, Panya fingered the Burmese, but the water was under the bridge, so he was yanked off the job, given a promotion, and put at a desk job in Bkk and told not to talk about the crime or the investigation. A higher ranking police General put himself in charge, and earlier prime suspects were never looked at again. Anyone connected to the Headman are permanently off the hook.

Sigh! This has been repeated so often, and is so wrong. Panya was as guilty as any of the other cops at making claims that he then changed a few hours later. At the time of his (announced prior to the murders, and taking place on schedule) promotion, he had already given the instruction to find scapegoats. Just look at any of his statements from immediately prior to and following his promotion.

September 23:

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

(Source http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run)

September 25:

Pol Lt Gen Panya Mamen, chief of Provincial Police Region 8, told Thai Rath Online on Thursday that investigators had exluded the son of Woraphan Tuwichian from the suspect list as investigations found...

(Source: find it via a Google search on Panya Mamen Woraphan Tuwichian)

September 27:

Everybody who was in a 600-metre radius of the murder scene between 2am and 4am on September 15 is a suspect, said Pol Lt-General Panya Mamen, chief of the Police Region 8 command. The resort island comes under his jurisdiction.

(Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Koh-Tao-murder-probe-85-complete-Panya-30244247.html)

October 1:

Police are confident that they will be able to issue warrant for the arrest of or arrest the suspects in the September 15 murder of two British bakcpackers on Koh Tao in a few days, said Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen, acting assistant national police chief, said today.

He disclosed that police had narrowed down the number of suspects to about ten who are to be requestioned. These ten suspects who include Thais, foreigners and Myanmar migrant workers were at the AC Bar on Koh Tao on the night of September 15 between midnight to 4.40 am of the following day.

...

...

Pol Lt-Gen Panya also dismissed as groundless an allegation made by one suspect, Pornprasit Sukdam, that he was tortured by police to implicate others of being the suspects in the murder.

(Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-confident-arrest-suspects-koh-tao-murder-2-days)

Show me any source from after September 26 that suggested Panya had any intention of going after the real culprits. Panya took up his new position October 1.

[loonodingle]

Well well what do you know when the police have to put up or shut up they have absolutely <deleted> all worth a rub. So I guess we will soon see an eye whiteness step forward for the police or who knows some Devine intervention to provide them with a conviction. After all they can't be seen to be what they are and I can't say it or I could be arrested too. Thailand is a scary place these days.

Welcome to the fold O Enlightened One.

No thanks I moved out two years ago when having lived there for a few years I released that to live in Thailand one could not expect to see real justice or be treated in any way other than a foreigner / sucker ready to be taken advantage of.

So did I lock stock and barrel. Nearly lost my life there and shaken down by the Polee on a spurious attempted murder charge that cost me a fortune to extricate myself from.

I am enlightened though.

Thailand...Its just an illusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnfHdZrmMAw

[loonodingle]

Sigh! This has been repeated so often, and is so wrong. Panya was as guilty as any of the other cops at making claims that he then changed a few hours later. At the time of his (announced prior to the murders, and taking place on schedule) promotion, he had already given the instruction to find scapegoats. Just look at any of his statements from immediately prior to and following his promotion.

September 23:

(Source http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run)

September 25:

Pol Lt Gen Panya Mamen, chief of Provincial Police Region 8, told Thai Rath Online on Thursday that investigators had exluded the son of Woraphan Tuwichian from the suspect list as investigations found...

(Source: find it via a Google search on Panya Mamen Woraphan Tuwichian)

September 27:

(Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Koh-Tao-murder-probe-85-complete-Panya-30244247.html)

October 1:

(Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-confident-arrest-suspects-koh-tao-murder-2-days)

Show me any source from after September 26 that suggested Panya had any intention of going after the real culprits. Panya took up his new position October 1.

Good Piece here

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao

The investigation into the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao sees a new twist after the police questioned two prime suspects they earlier said have enough evidence to prove their connection.

[loonodingle]

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

He also dismissed any suggestion of local mafias or influential people that could twist the investigation with promise that local influence would pose no obstacle to the police investigation.

Instead the police will eliminate all these mafias, he said.

Meanwhile a police source said the police are also looking into the cooperation of those who helped to arrange the suspect to escape. They also will be arrested.

[sambum]

David Milgaard was convicted in 1970 in Canada for the rape and murder of a nursing assistant. He was only 17 years old by then but had a rap sheet as long as your arm by then to.

David spent 23 years in prison during the better part of his life. From age 17 until age 40. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence, and a testimony of what he would call a good friend. With the introduction of DNA as evidence, and his friend admitting he only accused David for the $2,000 reward money, David was finally released. Mostly by the help of his mother who never lost faith in him. He was paid 10 Million CAD Dollars for the governments mistake.

Through DNA they found the real rapist and murdered. He was renting the basement suit of his friend and very close to where the Nursing Assistant was raped and murdered. He was in jail at the time for another rape, but also before David was convicted he was charged with another rape and was on Parole. I admitted to his crime after his DNA Matched.

If ever there was a Key Stones Cop Scenario, or the prize for the Biggest Police Blunder in the World, then Canada gets the 1st Prize on this case hands down! The only thing that could make this whole story worst was that we had the Death Penalty then, and he was dead before proven innocents. The Moto for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is "We always get our Man!". They just never admit that they always get the right man.

Yea, of misguided faith! What makes you think your legal system is so much better? Have you looked in your own backyard for junk, before you come here? But it is better, you claim! Do you think for a second David Milgaard feels the same way as you do, and he has experience in the Canadian Legal System, where chances are you have had no dealing of your own in your own legal system?

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.

But now this case surrounds Migrant Workers Rights! How the Local Police here, and around the World, should conduct Interrogations! How they should conduct their Crime Scene Investigation. How they should report news. How their DNA Evidence should be thrown out because it does not live up to the standards, you THINK you have, but do not! How this case is so important to change things like as stated as faults in thiss World.

Why bring the World Problems to Thailand to solve? Did they aske for that? Do they need this? Solve your own problems back home first. I mean this to Andy to. Especially to Andy! I don't mind at all to have a debate here with him on this subject. Link this to him! Let's Go!

The Thai Police are trying to solve a Rape and Murderer case here which I feel confident they have spent a lot of extra Manpower and Resources on to do. A lot more then I would spend for sure. They have been Mum (quiet) as they are ordered to do by that by their Superiors. This is not uncommon. Police don't talk much about the case in your country to. But the Defense sure does and throughout everything to twist everything, which is there job. I think?

Up-to-You

. .

.

Let me tell you all something! This case started as a terrible rape and murder of 2 young people on the holiday of a life time, and from what I read about them I would be proud if they could call me "Uncle Goldbuggy". That the 2 accused was arrested on strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.k t

Back to your old condescending, patronising style GB, and "Uncle Goldbuggy"? Seriously, that is worrying, coupled with the "Victoria" scenario.

Uncle Goldbuggy's "facts" (strong evidence, including their confession, admitting to be near the scene during this crime, and DNA Matching Hannah's, and also an eye witnesses and holding Davids stolen Mobile Phone.) are as credible and uncontestable as the RTP's story, lol

edit: non-relevant nested posts deleted

This is "worrying" to you! Why? Are you part of the Defensive Team or a Relative to one of the accused that you should worry about this? Or is it that you are just the type of person afraid to look at both sides of a coin to get at the truth?

"Uncontested"? Sure! So far! The beauty of my post is that in a few short weeks it will either be "contested" by the Defense if it is brought out in court, or it will not be. Ending it all.

But your Grand Conspiracy Theory lives on for many Generations. You can even pass this down to your Grandchildren. This is because none of it is based on actual fact or evidence, so it cannot be contested in a Court of Law anywhere because it does not exist. The is the "worrying" part!

If you don't know what is worrying to me about you wanting to be "Uncle Goldbuggy", and talking like you were one of a dead girl's close friends,(by calling her by a name that "only a few" of her friends used) then maybe you should ask someone else if this is normal behaviour, because I certainly don't think it is!

And your ramblings about "Grand Conspiracy Theories" (Your words, your capital letters, which by the way, are frowned upon by the Mods - check the Thai Visa Rules) are wearing a bit thin now in the light of recent events regarding key evidence.

[loonodingle]

This is "worrying" to you! Why? Are you part of the Defensive Team or a Relative to one of the accused that you should worry about this? Or is it that you are just the type of person afraid to look at both sides of a coin to get at the truth?

"Uncontested"? Sure! So far! The beauty of my post is that in a few short weeks it will either be "contested" by the Defense if it is brought out in court, or it will not be. Ending it all.

But your Grand Conspiracy Theory lives on for many Generations. You can even pass this down to your Grandchildren. This is because none of it is based on actual fact or evidence, so it cannot be contested in a Court of Law anywhere because it does not exist. The is the "worrying" part!

If you don't know what is worrying to me about you wanting to be "Uncle Goldbuggy", and talking like you were one of a dead girl's close friends,(by calling her by a name that "only a few" of her friends used) then maybe you should ask someone else if this is normal behaviour, because I certainly don't think it is!

And your ramblings about "Grand Conspiracy Theories" (Your words, your capital letters, which by the way, are frowned upon by the Mods - check the Thai Visa Rules) are wearing a bit thin now in the light of recent events regarding key evidence.

Go SamBum....LOL... u don't mince your words hey!!

[BritTim]

snip ...

Show me any source from after September 26 that suggested Panya had any intention of going after the real culprits. Panya took up his new position October 1.

Good Piece here

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao

The investigation into the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao sees a new twist after the police questioned two prime suspects they earlier said have enough evidence to prove their connection.

Sure. That was on September 24. They were supposedly completely exonerated after being proven guilty September 23. This was not because of the scheduled promotions October 1.

[fish fingers]

So.. whats the truth ... Sean M alibiwise seems to contradict himself more than once and had to 'fix' some of his 'heat of the moment' social media comments on more than one occasion. I'm totally convinced he has all the answers

Sean also said he was among a group of people playing guitar on the beach near the scene.

The group was also suspected by the police as they were near the scene.

But Montriwat discredited the Briton’s claim saying in fact on the night of the murder an employee of a spa has told him she helped to wash and clean blood from the face and body of Mr Sean who is a friend of the murdered David Miller.

He said he asked Mr Sean about the blood on his face and body and insisted on asking where he was that night.

Mr Sean claimed he did not go out anywhere but slept in the room, Montriwat said.

‘This is very suspicious,’ Montriwat told reporters while insisting in his innocence.

[loonodingle]

snip ...

Show me any source from after September 26 that suggested Panya had any intention of going after the real culprits. Panya took up his new position October 1.

Good Piece here

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/new-twist-murder-two-brits-koh-tao

The investigation into the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao sees a new twist after the police questioned two prime suspects they earlier said have enough evidence to prove their connection.

Sure. That was on September 24. They were supposedly completely exonerated after being proven guilty September 23. This was not because of the scheduled promotions October 1.

I don't know Brit Tim things have moved at such a pace. It was a very strange time though it jumped from we have cctv of 2 people and they were adamant about that. Very very adamant and then at the drop of a hat forgotten.

Moved on as though someone threw a switch. But heyho what do I know. Personally I think Sean Mcanna hold some very important pieces. he was in protective custody whilst one of the suspects was in jail which is why he had had a shave etc before he left the island. he hadn't been in a jungle sleeping out that was aloada bs.

Then you have the reports of the fight in the bar that night. all disappeared into never never land never to be mentioned again. like it never happened. they have made evidence fit the story. released selected cctv to portray the suspects as the killers. lets face you don't dispose of dna sample. a condom for example. its a solid object and you swab it. you don't bin it &lt;deleted&gt; how daft do they think we are. I was at on the fence until recently. a lot of things didn't stack up but the cappers of the last 3 days trial has reinforced my belief that they are scapegoats. Even the diehard tv members who supported the RT Polee Farce have been subdued they don't know how to fight their corner anymore.

Anyway you wait to the revelations from the UK autopsy. Backed by the CSI expert who is contracted to the MOD and the UN. A forensic heavyweight in more than one sense hey!!!.

[loonodingle]

So.. whats the truth ... Sean M seems to contradict himself more than once and had to 'fix' some of his 'heat of the moment' social media comments on more than one occasion. I'm totally convinced he has all the answers

Sean also said he was among a group of people playing guitar on the beach near the scene.

The group was also suspected by the police as they were near the scene.

But Montriwat discredited the Briton’s claim saying in fact on the night of the murder an employee of a spa has told him she helped to wash and clean blood from the face and body of Mr Sean who is a friend of the murdered David Miller.

He said he asked Mr Sean about the blood on his face and body and insisted on asking where he was that night.

Mr Sean claimed he did not go out anywhere but slept in the room, Montriwat said.

‘This is very suspicious,’ Montriwat told reporters while insisting in his innocence.

There was also a Bristolian Chris Cooper from a Koh Tao dive school who came out and said he was drinking with Sean Mcanna that night. He then deleted his post from Facebook and had CSI remove the copy's as well. David CSI will verify this

http://news.sky.com/story/1339247/thai-murders-hannah-dna-matches-asian-men

[JohnThailandJohn]

Finally the British press have really got hold of this. I am sure another paper which has been blocked here would be keen to get in on the act. The changing of the guard is the part I would focus on if I were them.

The first guy had it all going in the right direction, then wham it all changes.

Who authorized that change, and could this person owe a favor to someone with serious political clout in that area?

How high does this really go?

Only throwing ideas around of course not making assumptions or accusations.

How high does this really go? you ask. My answer is, How high can it go? In there lies your answer.

The answer is simple - chain of command, the PM lifts the phone and talks with the Chief of Police, he tells him I need this sorted asap as I am being pressured directly by the British PM, the Chief of police reviews the case and sends someone he believes will take over and get a result, neither the PM or the COP will have instructed anyone to look for scape goats but will have been very direct in requiring progress and a resolution as quickly as possible - that is how I see it

Why would the British PM make such a call when UK investigators have indicated to the victim's family the police nabbed the right people for these crimes and the evidence is strong against them.

[BritTim]

I don't know Brit Tim things have moved at such a pace. It was a very strange time though it jumped from we have cctv of 2 people and they were adamant about that. Very very adamant and then at the drop of a hat forgotten.

Moved on as though someone threw a switch. But heyho what do I know. Personally I think Sean Mcanna hold some very important pieces. he was in protective custody whilst one of the suspects was in jail which is why he had had a shave etc before he left the island. he hadn't been in a jungle sleeping out that was aloada bs.

Then you have the reports of the fight in the bar that night. all disappeared into never never land never to be mentioned again. like it never happened. they have made evidence fit the story. released selected cctv to portray the suspects as the killers. lets face you don't dispose of dna sample. a condom for example. its a solid object and you swab it. you don't bin it <deleted> how daft do they think we are. I was at on the fence until recently. a lot of things didn't stack up but the cappers of the last 3 days trial has reinforced my belief that they are scapegoats. Even the diehard tv members who supported the RT Polee Farce have been subdued they don't know how to fight their corner anymore.

Anyway you wait to the revelations from the UK autopsy. Backed by the CSI expert who is contracted to the MOD and the UN. A forensic heavyweight in more than one sense hey!!!.

It is really difficult to keep the facts straight. It is one of our important responsibilities not to spread misinformation ourselves, however much we want it to be true.

September 23: we have strong proof they are guilty; September 24: we have strong proof they are innocent; on Panya's watch. Yes, highly suspicious. There are many possible explanations.

Sean McAnna is somewhat interesting. I do not think he was directly involved, and I believe his statement that he did not know about the murders until after noon the following day. However, he probably knows what happened (with or without proof). He certainly upset Mon and his pet police goon. There must have been some reason for that, and I do not believe the version of the story either Mon or Sean gave. Personally, I think Sean might have been stupid enough to ask Mon for money to keep his mouth shut. That is highly speculative. I further speculate that Sean might have actually received some cash once safely out of Thailand.

There is some evidence that the mafia and RTP wanted Sean as a scapegoat. Sean stayed close enough to the journalists that this would not have been easy and, anyway, they needed accomplices. Sean doing this alone would have been at least as unconvincing as the two Burmese kids managing it.

The RTP are trying to pretend that they are even less competent than we already know them to be. It is the only other reasonable explanation other than scapegoats and a cover up.

[catsanddogs]

So.. whats the truth ... Sean M seems to contradict himself more than once and had to 'fix' some of his 'heat of the moment' social media comments on more than one occasion. I'm totally convinced he has all the answers

Sean also said he was among a group of people playing guitar on the beach near the scene.

The group was also suspected by the police as they were near the scene.

But Montriwat discredited the Briton’s claim saying in fact on the night of the murder an employee of a spa has told him she helped to wash and clean blood from the face and body of Mr Sean who is a friend of the murdered David Miller.

He said he asked Mr Sean about the blood on his face and body and insisted on asking where he was that night.

Mr Sean claimed he did not go out anywhere but slept in the room, Montriwat said.

‘This is very suspicious,’ Montriwat told reporters while insisting in his innocence.

There was also a Bristolian Chris Cooper from a Koh Tao dive school who came out and said he was drinking with Sean Mcanna that night. He then deleted his post from Facebook and had CSI remove the copy's as well. David CSI will verify this

http://news.sky.com/story/1339247/thai-murders-hannah-dna-matches-asian-men

McAnna said he had arranged to meet up with David that night but he didn't make it because he was sleeping off a hangover. McAnna's no wallflower. He's not got the face, physique or attitude to fade into the background from what I've seen in the press and on social media. If he was out that night drinking on Koh Tao in public there will be witnesses. Maybe he was in one of his strange costumes and donning a wig as per some of the photos and was unrecognisable. Maybe he is one of the British witnesses for the defence. Who knows?

[loonodingle]

So.. whats the truth ... Sean M seems to contradict himself more than once and had to 'fix' some of his 'heat of the moment' social media comments on more than one occasion. I'm totally convinced he has all the answers

Sean also said he was among a group of people playing guitar on the beach near the scene.

The group was also suspected by the police as they were near the scene.

But Montriwat discredited the Britons claim saying in fact on the night of the murder an employee of a spa has told him she helped to wash and clean blood from the face and body of Mr Sean who is a friend of the murdered David Miller.

He said he asked Mr Sean about the blood on his face and body and insisted on asking where he was that night.

Mr Sean claimed he did not go out anywhere but slept in the room, Montriwat said.

This is very suspicious, Montriwat told reporters while insisting in his innocence.

There was also a Bristolian Chris Cooper from a Koh Tao dive school who came out and said he was drinking with Sean Mcanna that night. He then deleted his post from Facebook and had CSI remove the copy's as well. David CSI will verify this

http://news.sky.com/story/1339247/thai-murders-hannah-dna-matches-asian-men

McAnna said he had arranged to meet up with David that night but he didn't make it because he was sleeping off a hangover. McAnna's no wallflower. He's not got the face, physique or attitude to fade into the background from what I've seen in the press and on social media. If he was out that night drinking on Koh Tao in public there will be witnesses. Maybe he was in one of his strange costumes and donning a wig as per some of the photos and was unrecognisable. Maybe he is one of the British witnesses for the defence. Who knows?

you won't find him as a witness. I already advised u there was one witness but he deleted his comments. In fact the whole island has been wiped clean of witness testimony and instead we have had to endure taxi men and gardener's report being order to lie by the police.

Mcanna done a runner that night IMHO when it all kicked of and he suffered his injuries. Koh Tao was his second home and after a few days he couldn't help himself and blabbed. He upset the wrong people and only by luck really he got away.

I don't think for one minute he was paid off. 100 baht for a bullet or a pile of cash to silence him. You don't know Thailand I suggest.

Anyway we will never know I suspect. The main thing is if the B2 are innocent then they get released and i am waiting the revelations due in September to be able to rub some TV members face right in it. I will start with JTJ perhaps.

[fish fingers]

Just doing a refresh on some of the things that happened the day after re Sean M

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/2014/09/22/scottish-man-goes-into-hiding-on-thai-island-after-claiming-he-knows-who-killed-backpackers-david-miller-and-hannah-witheridge/

[JohnThailandJohn]

This of course is the reason police early on had no problem publicly accusing them and humiliating them on only unsubstantiated rumor.

huh? You mean when the initial police team was following evidence - which led to announcing Mon and Nomsod as prime suspects? You can call that 'accusing them' if you want. Following evidence/leads and announcing suspects is what inspectors are supposed to do - it's part of their job description. However, JTJ, you mention 'humiliating them' in the same phrase. Well yes, perhaps the accused were humiliated by being named suspects. But look at what happened at the crime: a lot more than humiliation. Should we shed crocodile tears for men being 'humiliated' by being named as suspects? You can if you want. But not to worry, JTJ, your humiliated-for-3 days buddies were quickly declared innocent by the replacement head cop. So they're free forever - to do in the next uppity farang victims who don't submit to their sexual advances. Feel better now?

Interesting bit of incoherent deflection but the fact remains -- police has absolutely no issue what-so-ever naming them as suspects as they did many people early on before clearing them. So, it is lunacy to think they tiny island headsman's power trumps that of the Thai Police, investigators, forensic teams, witnesses, video, DNA, laboratories, UK observers ....

DELUSIONAL

Methinks that JTJ and cohorts are so heavily invested in Death Island that they're getting ever more desperate.

I seem to recall JTJ admitting to having some dive school connections? Maybe a bubble went astray, accounting for his/her brainless defense of all things RTP and the apparent blood lust for the necks of the B2?

In any event, given the history and stories of the Koh Tao mafia, I would suggest that any opinion offered by anyone having vested business interests there must be treated with a good deal of caution.

Suggest you checkout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

I have no ties to Koh Tao. I have no ties to anyone in this case and could care less what nationality those responsible for the crime are just as I could care less the nationality of the victims. I don't know the victim or the accused families but feel for them both ... as much as I do other strangers I read about in the news. This is to say I have absolutely no emotional or other investment in this case except that it is a newsworthy story. I also find it highly fascinating the way many have used this story to benefit their own psychological needs. These people also have no ties to this event but have taken this to levels of great emotional importance. So much so, that they have lost sight of reality and cannot even step back to see just how ridiculous some of what they say is.

This story has been used by people from those who simply feel lonely and unimportant and want to feel they are special people in the know as well as being part of a group to those who simply have an ax to grind with Thailand and authorities. What appears to be the most common thread is low self-esteem. I don't mean this as a negative comment as we all suffer such periods and have insecurities but using this case as a way to sooth these feelings is not a positive step as can be seen clearly by those who just keep doubling down with nonsense offered as some proof of innocence. It has become an addiction for those wanting to not properly deal with other personal issues.

People are simply being used and manipulated be it by the press, social media or other groups who have a vested interest in drumming up viewers or making a political statement. The reality and facts of this case are meaningless to those who have made such a distorted and unhealthy emotional connection to this case ... all that is important is that they can continue to come up with, or rehash old, baseless and implausible theories.

This case has never been about justice, the accused, guilty or the victims to many and to others it has now also taken a back seat to the theorists being the main spectacle.

[loonodingle]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating

suggest you check out ~