Economic ministers 'complete failures'

[Rancid]

Anyone wanting the job of next government will always claim that the economy is suffering etc, then they will go on to announce new spending and infrastructure initiatives that can earn them fortunes in kickbacks. That is supposed to be a solution? Governments favourite is Keynes as it allows them to defend running up debts.

There no such thing as a professional government, whether soldiers, politicians or revolutionaries. Some just happen into boom times and others cop depressions, they get judged by economic circumstance and certainly not economic prowess.

That aside, central banks are also in the mix doing whatever they can to ensure the banking sector gets to keep skimming.

[rubl]

Did Kasit recolour his shirt in mentioning that former PMs should be consulted what with our favourite criminal fugitive already having offered his services

Edited August 1, 2015 by rubl

[exbikey]

Chinese tourists #1 in visitors, #9 in daily spend per capita.

do you have a source for this?

(not trolling you i am genuinely interested)

I think if you do a quick search through the ThaiVisa forums you'll find the answer your looking for. I seem to recall a few threads on the subject but personally I can't be a**ed. (not trolling)

I hope this helps.

[djjamie]

An interesting point of view, considering the country's economy was in worse shape as a result of political turmoil directly related to the political unrest caused by the PAD. (not that it didn't need to be said).

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

The tourism industry took a massive hit because of the Suthep/Yingsy spat. And the country was crawling along, mainly on the back of exports.

Exports, reliant on China and Europe are down now (not as a result of the current economic policies but because the world in general teeters on the brink of a very large depression).

Since the current government came to power, there has been a rebound in tourism, but they can't do a lot to affect the export sector as that relies on trade partner economies being in good shape. The Baht has been high and that discourages manufacturing in the country. The baht has now fallen in value. The domestic economy is mired by household debt.

But career diplomat Kasit (not an economist) has the answer which is...

"Since the current government came to power there has been a rebound in tourism"

Are you kidding??? Speak to any Thai involved in the tourism industry and there has been an enormous fall in Tourism. Get your facts right don't rely on government properganda misleading all, or so they think.

The old "talk to any Thai" excuse. I love that belief structure that some cling too because facts obscure their agenda. It is like some think global economists should go and talk to a local to gauge economic indicators in the country.

Facts. The PTP's greatest friend. Beliefs, their dearest friend.

Can you present facts to state what you "believe"? I can guarantee you can't because to argue it is to argue that terrorism has a positive effect on tourism. The facts in the below graph prove otherwise and shows you are wrong.

Interestingly it is a Democrat that has criticised the Junta as well. The Junta's biggest fear is solidarity between old waring parties like the Dems and the one principle supporters.

[mommysboy]

Somewhat ironic that Thailand's most fruitful and progressive years were under Thaksin. Just saying !

[rubl]

Somewhat ironic that Thailand's most fruitful and progressive years were under Thaksin. Just saying !

World Global Boom by our Thai Hero. Left in time to avoid needing to tackle a downturn.

[lovetotravel]

Somewhat ironic that Thailand's most fruitful and progressive years were under Thaksin. Just saying !

The emerging and developing countries were experiencing one of the greatest economic times ever. Had nothing to do with him. It all slowed down by 2007 and started around 2001.

[lovelomsak]

Somewhat ironic that Thailand's most fruitful and progressive years were under Thaksin. Just saying !

The emerging and developing countries were experiencing one of the greatest economic times ever. Had nothing to do with him. It all slowed down by 2007 and started around 2001.

I amnot sure if it was all about the times. Between 2001 and 2006 GDP grew by 30%,,public sector debt fell from 57% of GDP to 41% and foreign exchange reserves doubled. The budget was even balanced.Income in the Northeast of Thailand rose by 41% Poverty dropped from 21% to 11%nationwide. and the prevalence of aids and hiv declined. He also registered 2.3 million migrant workers to qualify for health cover.

I am sure the times had something to do with it but it shows he worked with what was there.

[Red Queen]

An interesting point of view, considering the country's economy was in worse shape as a result of political turmoil directly related to the political unrest caused by the PAD. (not that it didn't need to be said).

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

The tourism industry took a massive hit because of the Suthep/Yingsy spat. And the country was crawling along, mainly on the back of exports.

Exports, reliant on China and Europe are down now (not as a result of the current economic policies but because the world in general teeters on the brink of a very large depression).

Since the current government came to power, there has been a rebound in tourism, but they can't do a lot to affect the export sector as that relies on trade partner economies being in good shape. The Baht has been high and that discourages manufacturing in the country. The baht has now fallen in value. The domestic economy is mired by household debt.

But career diplomat Kasit (not an economist) has the answer which is...

"Since the current government came to power there has been a rebound in tourism"

Are you kidding??? Speak to any Thai involved in the tourism industry and there has been an enormous fall in Tourism. Get your facts right don't rely on government properganda misleading all, or so they think.

The old "talk to any Thai" excuse. I love that belief structure that some cling too because facts obscure their agenda. It is like some think global economists should go and talk to a local to gauge economic indicators in the country.

Facts. The PTP's greatest friend. Beliefs, their dearest friend.

Can you present facts to state what you "believe"? I can guarantee you can't because to argue it is to argue that terrorism has a positive effect on tourism. The facts in the below graph prove otherwise and shows you are wrong.

Interestingly it is a Democrat that has criticised the Junta as well. The Junta's biggest fear is solidarity between old waring parties like the Dems and the one principle supporters.

And the chart was produced by which independent source?

But but but... they'd never lie, would they?

[Charlie Croker]

An interesting point of view, considering the country's economy was in worse shape as a result of political turmoil directly related to the political unrest caused by the PAD. (not that it didn't need to be said).

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

The tourism industry took a massive hit because of the Suthep/Yingsy spat. And the country was crawling along, mainly on the back of exports.

Exports, reliant on China and Europe are down now (not as a result of the current economic policies but because the world in general teeters on the brink of a very large depression).

Since the current government came to power, there has been a rebound in tourism, but they can't do a lot to affect the export sector as that relies on trade partner economies being in good shape. The Baht has been high and that discourages manufacturing in the country. The baht has now fallen in value. The domestic economy is mired by household debt.

But career diplomat Kasit (not an economist) has the answer which is...

"Since the current government came to power there has been a rebound in tourism"

Are you kidding??? Speak to any Thai involved in the tourism industry and there has been an enormous fall in Tourism. Get your facts right don't rely on government properganda misleading all, or so they think.

Why is it the guy who shouts 'GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT' always thinks they have the best argument.

Here are 'The FACTS'

Tourism rose slightly at the end of 2014.

1Q15 tourist arrivals reached 7.88 million, up 23.5% on 1Q14

2Q15 tourist arrivals were at 6.20 million, an increase of 21.6% from 2Q14

As opposed to a 15.9% drop at same time last year.

These FACTS clearly indicate tourism has risen since last year. The drop in tourism was credited to the political upheaval in Thailand. Prior to Prayut taking over.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Charlie Croker

[craigt3365]

An off topic post has been removed from view. Please do not continue with posts like this.

[Charlie Croker]

Somewhat ironic that Thailand's most fruitful and progressive years were under Thaksin. Just saying !

I know it seems ironic.

But many people don't understand the difference between irony and coincidence.

Is it a coincidence that the rest of the world also enjoyed a period of prosperity at the same time too?

Is it ironic or coincidental that Thailand economy is suffering at the same time as their trading partners and indeed the world economy?

Irony and Coincidence - always difficult to distinguish.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Charlie Croker

[phoenixdoglover]

An interesting point of view, considering the country's economy was in worse shape as a result of political turmoil directly related to the political unrest caused by the PAD. (not that it didn't need to be said).

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

The tourism industry took a massive hit because of the Suthep/Yingsy spat. And the country was crawling along, mainly on the back of exports.

Exports, reliant on China and Europe are down now (not as a result of the current economic policies but because the world in general teeters on the brink of a very large depression).

Since the current government came to power, there has been a rebound in tourism, but they can't do a lot to affect the export sector as that relies on trade partner economies being in good shape. The Baht has been high and that discourages manufacturing in the country. The baht has now fallen in value. The domestic economy is mired by household debt.

But career diplomat Kasit (not an economist) has the answer which is...

"Since the current government came to power there has been a rebound in tourism"

Are you kidding??? Speak to any Thai involved in the tourism industry and there has been an enormous fall in Tourism. Get your facts right don't rely on government properganda misleading all, or so they think.

Why is it the guy who shouts 'GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT' always thinks they have the best argument.

Here are 'The FACTS'

Tourism rose slightly at the end of 2014.

1Q15 tourist arrivals reached 7.88 million, up 23.5% on 1Q14

2Q15 tourist arrivals were at 6.20 million, an increase of 21.6% from 2Q14

As opposed to a 15.9% drop at same time last year.

These FACTS clearly indicate tourism has risen since last year. The drop in tourism was credited to the political upheaval in Thailand. Prior to Prayut taking over.

It doesn't take much to undercut this analysis.

TAT and the related departments regularly talk up the tourist numbers. AOT recently did the same with flight volumes.

However, several months back, TAT also made the "mistake" of releasing additional information about tourists in 2015, and it is now understood that the Chinese make up most of the volume increase. Moreover, figures were also published concerning typical length of stay, and the spending rate per day, for tourists from different countries.

Chinese tourists spend more per day (say 6,000 baht vs 5,000 baht), but typically stay for one week. Europeans stay on average for 2 weeks. Thus overall spending by non-Chinese per stay is significantly higher.

It is understandable that TAT has stayed away from completing and publishing the analysis, and they do not regularly announce tourist revenue estimates. The last estimates I saw held fast to the year-end projection for 2015, but would require a remarkable acceleration in tourist spending in the 2nd half of the year.

That's the rub, isn't it? Tourist numbers up; revenue down. These two trends comport very well with ad hoc observations contributed by members on TVF. More Chinese, but an observable decline in overall business activity.

Edited August 1, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[ramrod711]

Strange how a "bad economy" causes a currency to drop, which allegedly helps exports, but exports are damaged by proposed bans by governments that import Thailand's products....because of decades old human trafficking and fishing practices....which have little or nothing to do with the current one year government. Probably more to do with those "other countries" punishing Thailand for the military government. Just a thought.

And right they are, those foreign governments.

You may be right, I'm not going to debate the right or wrong, the point is that it seems that the blame should be on the fact that they are military, not incompetent. They may prove to be useless, but I've never seen a government turn an economy around in one year.

[Eric Loh]

Christ, talk about calling the pot black, any previous Ministers from right back to Khun Chuan's day should keep a low profile and tend to their roses , there are too many skeletons in the proverbial closet and too many ready to send it all back in kind, twice over.

Excepting Korn. They should definitely bring back Korn

Oddly enough I was just going to mention Korn Chatikavanij as he was the best Minister of Finance of Thailand, certainly during the last 15 years.

He was, and still is, vastly superior to Surapong and many others of that ilk, nor did he lie to the public as other FMs did.

Your "best MF" has been snubbed by the junta for Somkid. That blow your hypothesis wide open. He lied about his Adminstration not taken any off budget loan and he is still under a cloud of suspicion regarding the fire sales of post '97 assets. Vastly superior? Doubtful at the least.

[Charlie Croker]

An interesting point of view, considering the country's economy was in worse shape as a result of political turmoil directly related to the political unrest caused by the PAD. (not that it didn't need to be said).

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

The tourism industry took a massive hit because of the Suthep/Yingsy spat. And the country was crawling along, mainly on the back of exports.

Exports, reliant on China and Europe are down now (not as a result of the current economic policies but because the world in general teeters on the brink of a very large depression).

Since the current government came to power, there has been a rebound in tourism, but they can't do a lot to affect the export sector as that relies on trade partner economies being in good shape. The Baht has been high and that discourages manufacturing in the country. The baht has now fallen in value. The domestic economy is mired by household debt.

But career diplomat Kasit (not an economist) has the answer which is...

"Since the current government came to power there has been a rebound in tourism"

Are you kidding??? Speak to any Thai involved in the tourism industry and there has been an enormous fall in Tourism. Get your facts right don't rely on government properganda misleading all, or so they think.

Why is it the guy who shouts 'GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT' always thinks they have the best argument.

Here are 'The FACTS'

Tourism rose slightly at the end of 2014.

1Q15 tourist arrivals reached 7.88 million, up 23.5% on 1Q14

2Q15 tourist arrivals were at 6.20 million, an increase of 21.6% from 2Q14

As opposed to a 15.9% drop at same time last year.

These FACTS clearly indicate tourism has risen since last year. The drop in tourism was credited to the political upheaval in Thailand. Prior to Prayut taking over.

It doesn't take much to undercut this analysis.

TAT and the related departments regularly talk up the tourist numbers. AOT recently did the same with flight volumes.

However, several months back, TAT also made the "mistake" of releasing additional information about tourists in 2015, and it is now understood that the Chinese make up most of the volume increase. Moreover, figures were also published concerning typical length of stay, and the spending rate per day, for tourists from different countries.

Chinese tourists spend more per day (say 6,000 baht vs 5,000 baht), but typically stay for one week. Europeans stay on average for 2 weeks. Thus overall spending by non-Chinese per stay is significantly higher.

It is understandable that TAT has stayed away from completing and publishing the analysis, and they do not regularly announce tourist revenue estimates. The last estimates I saw held fast to the year-end projection for 2015, but would require a remarkable acceleration in tourist spending in the 2nd half of the year.

That's the rub, isn't it? Tourist numbers up; revenue down. These two trends comport very well with ad hoc observations contributed by members on TVF. More Chinese, but an observable decline in overall business activity.

It doesn't matter that the figures I supplied came from an independent source.

Kasikorn Research Depth. Independent renowned and respected economic research centre in Thailand.

Unsubstantiated statements shouldn't be believed, that's fair enough. First someone asked for the facts, the facts were supplied and now they are erroneous according to phoenixdogginglover.

Kasit made a statement which I believe is wrong. I gave my reasons and showed my working out. By all means argue. But you should at least come back with alternative independent sources to refute the information I gave.

Or you are just another numptyheaded windbag.

[billd766]

Christ, talk about calling the pot black, any previous Ministers from right back to Khun Chuan's day should keep a low profile and tend to their roses , there are too many skeletons in the proverbial closet and too many ready to send it all back in kind, twice over.

Excepting Korn. They should definitely bring back Korn

Oddly enough I was just going to mention Korn Chatikavanij as he was the best Minister of Finance of Thailand, certainly during the last 15 years.

He was, and still is, vastly superior to Surapong and many others of that ilk, nor did he lie to the public as other FMs did.

Your "best MF" has been snubbed by the junta for Somkid. That blow your hypothesis wide open. He lied about his Adminstration not taken any off budget loan and he is still under a cloud of suspicion regarding the fire sales of post '97 assets. Vastly superior? Doubtful at the least.

Actually it doesn't at all but don't let that get in your way. Let me try to work out the diffenece between 1997 and 2008. It is 11 years which included 4 years of the Democrats, 6 years of TRT, 1 of military, and 1 year of PPP but it seems that in YOUR opinion which is worth as much as mine it was all Korn's fault.

Nothing like a good bit of bias to boost your post count.

PS For people like you the truth is somewhat inconvenient at times.

[lvr181]

I guess that bringing in some overseas technocrat economic advisers with some ideas wouldn't help the country?

With work permits of course. Nah, such help would not be allowed. A pity really. Thus the status quo of going nowhere will continue?

[Charlie Croker]

I think the current leadership has a blind spot for economic issues, and of course the emphasis of the Junta has been on "pacifying" the opposition, asserting broad control, and making a show of addressing corruption . In addition, they've been largely reacting to issues related to airline safety, the migrant crisis, and slavery in the fishing industry. All of this keeps them away from addressing the growing problems of the Thai economy.

Here's what I consider to be the major items over the past 18 months with respect to probable economic impact:

1. The amnesty bill - the catalyst (or excuse) for protests - probably not an economic factor

2. Mass demonstrations and reactionary violence - disruption of the local (Bangkok) economy and a reduction in tourism revenues

3. Delayed payments to rice farmers - lack of economic stimulus, reduction in farm activity

4. The coup - introduced uncertainty both internally and externally - a general negative effect

5. Stoppage of demonstrations - restoration of normal business in Bangkok and better conditions for tourism

6. Payments and financial aid to rice farmers - stimulus for farming regions

7. Various highly publicized corruption cases (DSI chief, etc) - probably no effect on economy

8. Ongoing issues with airline safety oversight - clearly an economic issue for local airlines

9. Price controls for lottery tickets - probably not a big economic item, but approach showed lack of understanding of middle markets

10. Forest encroachment - reduction in economic activity on the disputed lands

11. G2G Rail Deals - so far, lack of transparency makes it hard to judge if net economic benefits will accrue to Thailand

12. Delayed government projects - clearly a major item highlighted by international economists, and a lack of short term stimulus

13. Human trafficking - major threat to Thai fishing industry, reduced economic activity

14. Oil price reduction - should be a benefit for Thailand

15. Faltering global economy - a negative factor for Thailand and many other countries

16. Liquor sales restrictions (rescinded) - would have created significant economic disruption, if enforced

17. Submarine purchase (on hold) - probably no economic impact, but gives strong impression of lack of spending priorities

18. Loss of manufacturing businesses - negative impact

19. Drought - negative impact

I probably missed some items; it's been an eventful time for Thailand.

Overall, I get the impression the current government is:

- weak in focus and understanding

- reactionary, not anticipating problems in the economy

- slow; not using the tools they have (such as project spending)

- mute; not articulating an economic strategy for Thailand (if manufacturing goes, kiss this baby goodbye)

Is this surprising? Let's ask the Generals.

Phoenixdogginglover is wrong to lay this at the door of the current government.

1. The current government took over 15mths ago, not 18mths ago.

2. Within the first 3 days of taking power they paid the rice farmers outstanding monies owed.

3. I don't need to read anymore the suggestions are dodgy at best. The numbers are rubbery, the hyperbole obvious.

[LomSak27]

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

Charlie, It seems unbelievable that Yingsy, I assume you mean Yingluck, would refuse to pay farmers as they were one of the pillars of her support. Or for that matter refuse to disburse funds as that would have increased her governments popularity at a very critical time of rising protests and judiciary strangulation

After that porky pie I am supposed to believe your tourism statistics . Hey they may be totally accurate but your credibility is now zilch

[rubl]

Christ, talk about calling the pot black, any previous Ministers from right back to Khun Chuan's day should keep a low profile and tend to their roses , there are too many skeletons in the proverbial closet and too many ready to send it all back in kind, twice over.

Excepting Korn. They should definitely bring back Korn

Oddly enough I was just going to mention Korn Chatikavanij as he was the best Minister of Finance of Thailand, certainly during the last 15 years.

He was, and still is, vastly superior to Surapong and many others of that ilk, nor did he lie to the public as other FMs did.

Your "best MF" has been snubbed by the junta for Somkid. That blow your hypothesis wide open. He lied about his Adminstration not taken any off budget loan and he is still under a cloud of suspicion regarding the fire sales of post '97 assets. Vastly superior? Doubtful at the least.

Which 'fire sales of post 97 assets' ? Any left by the time he became MoF in December 2009 ?

Edited August 1, 2015 by rubl

[Baerboxer]

He suggested that the National Council for Peace and Order consult with former prime ministers about running the country.

'Cause they did so much better?

"All the economic engines appear to have stopped functioning rendering Thailand’s economic outlook the worst in 40 years, said Mr Thanawat Polvichai, director of the Economic and Business Forecast Centre of the University of Thai Chamber of Commerce." 2015-04-17

The Prayut regime has not only the worst economic track record of previous civilian governments, but also the worst compared to previous military governments.

Maybe you can provide economic statistical data to support the idea that previous governments did worse.

Maybe you can tell us where we can get reliable information on the economic performance of the last Shin regime please?

Given their creative propensity for changing figures at the drop of a hat, allowing different ministers to issue their own wildly differing figures, and in ability to produce and reliable accounting for their prestige self financing rice support scheme, would you believe them.

Yes, actually, you probably would.

[Charlie Croker]

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

Charlie, It seems unbelievable that Yingsy, I assume you mean Yingluck, would refuse to pay farmers as they were one of the pillars of her support. Or for that matter refuse to disburse funds as that would have increased her governments popularity at a very critical time of rising protests and judiciary strangulation

After that porky pie I am supposed to believe your tourism statistics . Hey they may be totally accurate but your credibility is now zilch

Lomsak, unbelievable - but true. 13-16 families of rice farmers in Thailand claim their beloved died as a result of stress from not being paid, after the government withheld payments over 2 seasons of rice production.

Here is the headline story in the Nation from May 25th last year:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Rice-payments-tomorrow-30234535.html

Its a matter of public record.

As is this report from that well known instrument of Thai military propaganda, ' The Wall Street Journal' discussing the planned infrastructure disbursement

http://www.wsj.com/articles/thai-military-moves-on-infrastructure-projects-foreign-investment-1401724234

Unbelievable Lomsak-(For redshirts to acknowledge widely known truths), but true.

[Beng]

That should include the education- transport- and tourism ministers as well.

[LomSak27]

Charlie you sound like a Nation newspaper article, which of course is the Yellow, Democratic party media outlet so ...

But you really do not get it. Red, yellow that is so 2013. It's over. However one thing, if payments were stopped so Ying couldn't juice her faithful, if rice was impounded in warehouses, ( and is now unsaleable) for the same purpose, once the government has been reset, you don't just get to go back and change all that. You can say whatever you want, some people may even believe that gibberish but ...

Reboot Thailand; does not mean you get a whole new pack of monopoly money. What has been lost, has been lost and if that helped get rid of Yingluck; great. That said the economic costs of one years spent on locking up the government, for the coup, and one year spent in amateur hour economic management, post coup, has had serious economic problems that are now coming home to roost..

Case you missed it, this last week a real hard hitting story in the NY Times came out about the Thai fishing industry, putting a face on what had been a nameless business. Today The Guardian has a big report about the eastern Maluku waters based Thai fishing fleet. It's being chased down, branded as a slave fleet run by a criminal Thai organization. You really don't have to worry about government sanctions or TP reports now. I expect consumer groups are going to go after the western companies that buy from them. Another hit to the economy and it will be big.

As you seem to be a unofficial expert on blaming Ying and the Reds for all problems economic, I suggest you get to work immediately on this disaster now ... damage control is also needed, as this will get messy.

Make us proud!

[dageurreotype]

An interesting point of view, considering the country's economy was in worse shape as a result of political turmoil directly related to the political unrest caused by the PAD. (not that it didn't need to be said).

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

The tourism industry took a massive hit because of the Suthep/Yingsy spat. And the country was crawling along, mainly on the back of exports.

Exports, reliant on China and Europe are down now (not as a result of the current economic policies but because the world in general teeters on the brink of a very large depression).

Since the current government came to power, there has been a rebound in tourism, but they can't do a lot to affect the export sector as that relies on trade partner economies being in good shape. The Baht has been high and that discourages manufacturing in the country. The baht has now fallen in value. The domestic economy is mired by household debt.

But career diplomat Kasit (not an economist) has the answer which is...

"Since the current government came to power there has been a rebound in tourism"

Are you kidding??? Speak to any Thai involved in the tourism industry and there has been an enormous fall in Tourism. Get your facts right don't rely on government properganda misleading all, or so they think.

The old "talk to any Thai" excuse. I love that belief structure that some cling too because facts obscure their agenda. It is like some think global economists should go and talk to a local to gauge economic indicators in the country.

Facts. The PTP's greatest friend. Beliefs, their dearest friend.

Can you present facts to state what you "believe"? I can guarantee you can't because to argue it is to argue that terrorism has a positive effect on tourism. The facts in the below graph prove otherwise and shows you are wrong.

Interestingly it is a Democrat that has criticised the Junta as well. The Junta's biggest fear is solidarity between old waring parties like the Dems and the one principle supporters.

I don't know where in Thailand you live but I can assure you the people of Phuket are suffering a massive downturn in tourists which cannot be solely attributed to the Low Season. Many closing up and going back to their home provinces. The knock on effect of this is hotel staff including maintenance and ancillary workers are without work of any kind. My mae baan has just asked me if I am able to find more work for her. Her usual work is as a painter/decorator for local hoteliers. I'm unable to help. Any work available is being spread very thinly. Some will say Phuket deserves this as a wake up call for their greed. I have much sympathy with this view. However, doesn't help the many good people I know having been able to earn a living here now finding themselves destitute.

[Charlie Croker]

An interesting point of view, considering the country's economy was in worse shape as a result of political turmoil directly related to the political unrest caused by the PAD. (not that it didn't need to be said).

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

The tourism industry took a massive hit because of the Suthep/Yingsy spat. And the country was crawling along, mainly on the back of exports.

Exports, reliant on China and Europe are down now (not as a result of the current economic policies but because the world in general teeters on the brink of a very large depression).

Since the current government came to power, there has been a rebound in tourism, but they can't do a lot to affect the export sector as that relies on trade partner economies being in good shape. The Baht has been high and that discourages manufacturing in the country. The baht has now fallen in value. The domestic economy is mired by household debt.

But career diplomat Kasit (not an economist) has the answer which is...

"Since the current government came to power there has been a rebound in tourism"

Are you kidding??? Speak to any Thai involved in the tourism industry and there has been an enormous fall in Tourism. Get your facts right don't rely on government properganda misleading all, or so they think.

The old "talk to any Thai" excuse. I love that belief structure that some cling too because facts obscure their agenda. It is like some think global economists should go and talk to a local to gauge economic indicators in the country.

Facts. The PTP's greatest friend. Beliefs, their dearest friend.

Can you present facts to state what you "believe"? I can guarantee you can't because to argue it is to argue that terrorism has a positive effect on tourism. The facts in the below graph prove otherwise and shows you are wrong.

Interestingly it is a Democrat that has criticised the Junta as well. The Junta's biggest fear is solidarity between old waring parties like the Dems and the one principle supporters.

I don't know where in Thailand you live but I can assure you the people of Phuket are suffering a massive downturn in tourists which cannot be solely attributed to the Low Season. Many closing up and going back to their home provinces. The knock on effect of this is hotel staff including maintenance and ancillary workers are without work of any kind. My mae baan has just asked me if I am able to find more work for her. Her usual work is as a painter/decorator for local hoteliers. I'm unable to help. Any work available is being spread very thinly. Some will say Phuket deserves this as a wake up call for their greed. I have much sympathy with this view. However, doesn't help the many good people I know having been able to earn a living here now finding themselves destitute.

I live in a Thailand Dageurootype, in a place called

The Real World -

where the FACTS count more than the opinion of some bloke on social media who claims he saw some other bloke moving out and whining about his failed business and blaming it on the government and tourists.

The FACTS are tourism has risen in 2015, maybe not enough to counteract the losses accumulated over time especially after last years even worse year of tourism which occurred when Yingluck was PM and Suthep were making protests.

I said tourism had risen.

I never said it had skyrocketed.

[Charlie Croker]

Charlie you sound like a Nation newspaper article, which of course is the Yellow, Democratic party media outlet so ...

But you really do not get it. Red, yellow that is so 2013. It's over. However one thing, if payments were stopped so Ying couldn't juice her faithful, if rice was impounded in warehouses, ( and is now unsaleable) for the same purpose, once the government has been reset, you don't just get to go back and change all that. You can say whatever you want, some people may even believe that gibberish but ...

Reboot Thailand; does not mean you get a whole new pack of monopoly money. What has been lost, has been lost and if that helped get rid of Yingluck; great. That said the economic costs of one years spent on locking up the government, for the coup, and one year spent in amateur hour economic management, post coup, has had serious economic problems that are now coming home to roost..

Case you missed it, this last week a real hard hitting story in the NY Times came out about the Thai fishing industry, putting a face on what had been a nameless business. Today The Guardian has a big report about the eastern Maluku waters based Thai fishing fleet. It's being chased down, branded as a slave fleet run by a criminal Thai organization. You really don't have to worry about government sanctions or TP reports now. I expect consumer groups are going to go after the western companies that buy from them. Another hit to the economy and it will be big.

As you seem to be a unofficial expert on blaming Ying and the Reds for all problems economic, I suggest you get to work immediately on this disaster now ... damage control is also needed, as this will get messy.

Make us proud!

Typical you deny the truth which is put in front of you.

Then change the discussion topic and move around like you know what your taking about.

This is a thread on the economic performance of the current government. Not an opportunity to air every festering grudge that you feel remains unresolved.

You spoke mistruths I posted links to news items from last year refuting the rubbish. Its that simple. Post FACTS to refute the FACTS I posted.

Otherwise its just your stale hot air filling the void.

[billd766]

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

Charlie, It seems unbelievable that Yingsy, I assume you mean Yingluck, would refuse to pay farmers as they were one of the pillars of her support. Or for that matter refuse to disburse funds as that would have increased her governments popularity at a very critical time of rising protests and judiciary strangulation

After that porky pie I am supposed to believe your tourism statistics . Hey they may be totally accurate but your credibility is now zilch

It is not so much that Yingluck refused to pay the farmers but the fact that the PTP with all its attendant best of the best Ministers didn't make ANY provision to do so. I think that Yingluck was out of the loop, probably deliberately, to keep her clear of any fallout so the only blame that could be attached to her is her statements that the cabinet was "HER" choice and that she was responsible for them all.

It was the cabinets responsibilty to make provision to pay the bills BEFORE the government was dissolved as they should have know that under the law a caretaker government is NOT allowed to incur extra debts just in case they lose the election.

IMHO the cabinet skated around that and simply assumed that as they had been elected they could do as they wished. Sadly for them and the farmers they found out that even they were subject to the laws of the land and this was one law that they were unable to ignore.

[Larry001]

Military governance and strong fair economic policies do not mix