Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[thailandchilli]

I am grateful Chilli, I would just like to know more of what is being disclosed by the prosecution, but we cant have it all. Would have been much easier if they had somebody in an official capacity reporting also, but maybe there is not much to report.

Agreed BeautifulPain, but thats the Thai system unfortunately, however despite the views of a handful of posters (not you) on here I'm confident the international press have no particular bias aside from reporting the truth, I for the life of me cannot see what benefit it would be for Reuters, BBC, Time or others such as Sky would have in being biased, unless they are part of a grand conspiracy to hold back any reporting from the prosecution side.

[BritTim]

I am grateful Chilli, I would just like to know more of what is being disclosed by the prosecution, but we cant have it all. Would have been much easier if they had somebody in an official capacity reporting also, but maybe there is not much to report.

What would really be great is if there was a verbatim transcript or, alternatively, reporters and NGO representatives allowed to take notes. We might then have a trustworthy record we can read and judge for ourselves. Why this is not permitted, you will need to ask the prosecution. I am confident the defense would have no objection, and cannot imagine the judge refusing this if supported by both defense and prosecution.

[AleG]

"Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

Wonder why they did not produce this in court, I would agree it seemed AH twitter reported things in the defence favour when they were revealed in court, and not alot in terms of what the prosecution said so maybe some things we do not know about, take the last day for the prosecution for example not much has came out about what went on for 10 hours +.

The fuller text of the article says:

"Rumours have circulated about a possible altercation at the AC Bar between the two victims and a group of Thai men.

However, Panya Mamen, the police chief, said interviews with Ms Witheridge's friends indicated there had been "no such confrontation".

Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

It could be because what was thought was just rumors after all. Since rumors also said there was a fight, and an acquaintance of the victims that was there said that was not true, rumors are kind of in the back step then.

As for court reports, yes, most of it has come from Andy Hall and press that calls the defendants things like "Baby faced Burmese", so obviously there's going to be a bias.

I thought this was all to boring for you ntil the trial re starts. So why sre you posting?

I didn't say that, did I?

Quite the contrary in fact, I'm interested in hearing about the actual trial; what bores me are the endless alternative theories being rehashed over and over again and leading to the same place as before, nowhere.

[thailandchilli]

I guess the actual trial got boring, time for the same old speculations that have been flogged more than a rented mule and gone nowhere for the past 11 months to be dumped on the thread.

Yes a poster called Frank was hungry but feel free top get it back on topic, the last day of court was to do with the torture testimony, do you have anything worthwhile you would like to contribute on that?

Bump

[KunMatt]

"Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

Wonder why they did not produce this in court, I would agree it seemed AH twitter reported things in the defence favour when they were revealed in court, and not alot in terms of what the prosecution said so maybe some things we do not know about, take the last day for the prosecution for example not much has came out about what went on for 10 hours +.

The fuller text of the article says:

"Rumours have circulated about a possible altercation at the AC Bar between the two victims and a group of Thai men.

However, Panya Mamen, the police chief, said interviews with Ms Witheridge's friends indicated there had been "no such confrontation".

Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

It could be because what was thought was just rumors after all. Since rumors also said there was a fight, and an acquaintance of the victims that was there said that was not true, rumors are kind of in the back step then.

As for court reports, yes, most of it has come from Andy Hall and press that calls the defendants things like "Baby faced Burmese", so obviously there's going to be a bias.

I thought this was all to boring for you ntil the trial re starts. So why sre you posting?

I didn't say that, did I?

Quite the contrary in fact, I'm interested in hearing about the actual trial; what bores me are the endless alternative theories being rehashed over and over again and leading to the same place as before, nowhere.

You mean like theories that were talked about for the last 11 month that the B2's confessions were extracted through torture. Something that was recounted in detail this week by one of the B2.

So now do you believe that they were tortured into confessing?

Edited September 4, 2015 by KunMatt

[Slip]

"Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

Wonder why they did not produce this in court, I would agree it seemed AH twitter reported things in the defence favour when they were revealed in court, and not alot in terms of what the prosecution said so maybe some things we do not know about, take the last day for the prosecution for example not much has came out about what went on for 10 hours +.

The fuller text of the article says:

"Rumours have circulated about a possible altercation at the AC Bar between the two victims and a group of Thai men.

However, Panya Mamen, the police chief, said interviews with Ms Witheridge's friends indicated there had been "no such confrontation".

Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

It could be because what was thought was just rumors after all. Since rumors also said there was a fight, and an acquaintance of the victims that was there said that was not true, rumors are kind of in the back step then.

As for court reports, yes, most of it has come from Andy Hall and press that calls the defendants things like "Baby faced Burmese", so obviously there's going to be a bias.

I thought this was all to boring for you ntil the trial re starts. So why sre you posting?

I didn't say that, did I?

Quite the contrary in fact, I'm interested in hearing about the actual trial; what bores me are the endless alternative theories being rehashed over and over again and leading to the same place as before, nowhere.

The trial is in recess. Please feel free to return when it commences once more. I imagine more news about the trial will be forthcoming at that time.

[Mooner]

Been hearing the RTP apologists banging on about DNA and trying to poke holes in the defense case.

I have seen nothing reputable from the prosecution. Only took 4 attempts to get to court and still have f$$ck all. Only have a few feeble witnesses saying the B2 were on the beach that night.

Even if they are guilty there absolutely no solid evidence to prove it.

Maybe a impartial investigation might reviel something. Fat chance of that!

[AleG]

I didn't say that, did I?

Quite the contrary in fact, I'm interested in hearing about the actual trial; what bores me are the endless alternative theories being rehashed over and over again and leading to the same place as before, nowhere.

You mean like theories that were talked about for the last 11 month that the B2's confessions were extracted through torture. Something that was recounted in detail this week by one of the B2.

So now do you believe that they were tortured into confessing?

I believe they were mistreated, the defendants claim it amounted to torture and that is the reason they confessed. First of, they have a very strong incentive to be biased in their accounts, secondly they confessed not only to the police during interrogation but also to representatives of the Myanmar embassy and from the Human Rights Commission, and yes, the usual "they were too scared to say something that would anger their captors" will be thrown back and then I'll reply that they weren't scared to tell those people their allegations of torture.

Finally, as I said before (and appears that it needs to be repeated because of the noise to signal ratio problem I mentioned):

"In any case the allegations of torture are neither here or there in respect of whether they are innocent or not. If they were tortured that doesn't change the reality of what happened before it, if the physical evidence proves their guilt then the confessions or "confessions" are largely irrelevant, which I know it's going to rattle some people but it is what the defenders of Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin have been saying all along, isn't it?

I, for one, I'm more interested in finding out the truth about the murders first."

[AleG]

I am grateful Chilli, I would just like to know more of what is being disclosed by the prosecution, but we cant have it all. Would have been much easier if they had somebody in an official capacity reporting also, but maybe there is not much to report.

What would really be great is if there was a verbatim transcript or, alternatively, reporters and NGO representatives allowed to take notes. We might then have a trustworthy record we can read and judge for ourselves. Why this is not permitted, you will need to ask the prosecution. I am confident the defense would have no objection, and cannot imagine the judge refusing this if supported by both defense and prosecution.

I hope someone makes the effort to translate and publish the judge's verdict.

[KunMatt]

I didn't say that, did I?

Quite the contrary in fact, I'm interested in hearing about the actual trial; what bores me are the endless alternative theories being rehashed over and over again and leading to the same place as before, nowhere.

You mean like theories that were talked about for the last 11 month that the B2's confessions were extracted through torture. Something that was recounted in detail this week by one of the B2.

So now do you believe that they were tortured into confessing?

I believe they were mistreated, the defendants claim it amounted to torture and that is the reason they confessed. First of, they have a very strong incentive to be biased in their accounts, secondly they confessed not only to the police during interrogation but also to representatives of the Myanmar embassy and from the Human Rights Commission, and yes, the usual "they were too scared to say something that would anger their captors" will be thrown back and then I'll reply that they weren't scared to tell those people their allegations of torture.

Finally, as I said before (and appears that it needs to be repeated because of the noise to signal ratio problem I mentioned):

"In any case the allegations of torture are neither here or there in respect of whether they are innocent or not. If they were tortured that doesn't change the reality of what happened before it, if the physical evidence proves their guilt then the confessions or "confessions" are largely irrelevant, which I know it's going to rattle some people but it is what the defenders of Wai Phyo and Zaw Lin have been saying all along, isn't it?

I, for one, I'm more interested in finding out the truth about the murders first."

It really is a "yes" or "no" question;

So now do you believe that they were tortured into confessing?

[catsanddogs]

"Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

Wonder why they did not produce this in court, I would agree it seemed AH twitter reported things in the defence favour when they were revealed in court, and not alot in terms of what the prosecution said so maybe some things we do not know about, take the last day for the prosecution for example not much has came out about what went on for 10 hours +.

The fuller text of the article says:

"Rumours have circulated about a possible altercation at the AC Bar between the two victims and a group of Thai men.

However, Panya Mamen, the police chief, said interviews with Ms Witheridge's friends indicated there had been "no such confrontation".

Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

It could be because what was thought was just rumors after all. Since rumors also said there was a fight, and an acquaintance of the victims that was there said that was not true, rumors are kind of in the back step then.

As for court reports, yes, most of it has come from Andy Hall and press that calls the defendants things like "Baby faced Burmese", so obviously there's going to be a bias.

I thought this was all to boring for you ntil the trial re starts. So why sre you posting?

I didn't say that, did I?

Quite the contrary in fact, I'm interested in hearing about the actual trial; what bores me are the endless alternative theories being rehashed over and over again and leading to the same place as before, nowhere.

Best to get out your knitting needles then and come back on the 11th.

[Slip]

Whether or not the 'allegations of torture are clearly neither here nor there" idea is the comment of someone who claims to sit on the fence, yet has a clear agenda, or a genuinely interested observer who isn't too bright may never be known.

Regardless, they miss the point in a spectacular way.

[thailandchilli]

Thankfully there are organizations that recognize the need for justice, unfortunately for a few posters here its neither here nor there;

The International Commission of Jurists have stated they considered this torture and are demanding a full and serious investigation, if proven any evidence submitted with regards the confessions should be immediately dismissed. Human Rights Watch has also made similar statements.

Edited September 4, 2015 by thailandchilli

[thailandchilli]

I wonder what the same few posters will be saying about any further evidence brought up in the defense phase.oh wait I think I can foresee this one coming, lets see, could it be................, "its neither here nor there"

famous last words me thinks

[catsanddogs]

I wonder what the same few posters will be saying about any further evidence brought up in the defense phase.oh wait I think I can foresee this one coming, lets see, could it be................, "its neither here nor there"

famous last words me thinks

I think we can feel confident they won't be saying anything along the lines of 'we don't know', 'we lost it' or 'we just have to pop back to Koh Tao to get some more information'.

[boomerangutang]

Just on a point of information, we really do not know the time of death. The police pathologist stated the time of death could not be determined because the bodies were frozen. The doctor called to the scene presumably did not know how to use a rectal thermometer, or was not asked to estimate time of death. My own suspicion is that it probably occurred prior to the initial running man CCTV (always assuming the date/time on that can be trusted).

I somewhat agree. The final running man video (that's been released. There may be others that weren't) shows him running from the scene just before 5 am. That's why I think the crime wrapped up just before 5 am.

Aleg you have been telling us all for almost a year to wait for the trial let the evidence and justice as purported to be sustained by the rtp to come out. Now you don't like what the press writes...why not? This is the trial you've been waiting for!

Right, he and his few pals have been saying things like, "just wait for the trial, all will be revealed." Well we waited, and we've heard what the prosecution had to offer, and (surprise!) very little was revealed, and most of it was either lies or crafted to nail the B2. What we (concerned public) wanted revealed was evidence of who really did the crime. We didn't get diddly squat of that. The hundreds of things we've been discussing online weren't even mentioned. Cops and prosecution aren't even doing a halfway decent job of a frame-up.

I am grateful Chilli, I would just like to know more of what is being disclosed by the prosecution, but we cant have it all. Would have been much easier if they had somebody in an official capacity reporting also, but maybe there is not much to report.

There are things to report, but it's clear top authorities don't want details of this trial to leak out. Here are some reasons:

>>> it loses face for Thailand

>>> it loses face for RTP and Thailand's justice system

>>> it might annoy KT's headman and his family and buddies - particularly if things leak out which might implicate them.

>>> it lessens tourism money coming in.

What would really be great is if there was a verbatim transcript or, alternatively, reporters and NGO representatives allowed to take notes. We might then have a trustworthy record we can read and judge for ourselves. Why this is not permitted, you will need to ask the prosecution. I am confident the defense would have no objection, and cannot imagine the judge refusing this if supported by both defense and prosecution.

I could see the judge refusing it, if there were higher powers in Bkk, such as the PM and Chief of Police who wanted as little reporting as possible on the trial.

[BeautifulPain]

Chilli - yep fully agreed I don't think there has been bias shown towards the b2 from the international press, what they have reported in terms of incompetence at best corruption at worst I believe to be the truth.

Brit tim - that would have been great, hopefully we get an accurate report at the end of the trial, though I have my doubts, not to say the judges are involved in corruption, just that it must be a difficult task given the restraints placed on the judges.

[BritTim]

What would really be great is if there was a verbatim transcript or, alternatively, reporters and NGO representatives allowed to take notes. We might then have a trustworthy record we can read and judge for ourselves. Why this is not permitted, you will need to ask the prosecution. I am confident the defense would have no objection, and cannot imagine the judge refusing this if supported by both defense and prosecution.

I could see the judge refusing it, if there were higher powers in Bkk, such as the PM and Chief of Police who wanted as little reporting as possible on the trial.

I tend (rightly or wrongly) to lump the prosecution, RTP and higher powers together. I believe if the Burmese kids were guilty, and they could prove it to unbiased observers, they would be going out of their way to demonstrate a transparent trial with all the evidence clearly laid out for inspection. I do not think even the most ardent supporters of the "RTP caught the right men" theory are going to dare claim that is what we are getting.

Edited September 4, 2015 by BritTim

[Madaussie]

No this picture I think was for the benefit of the press.. The RTP had shown a picture of the crime scene with the clothes neatly piled on top of each other. But previously someone had posted on Facebook the actual crime scene with the clothes scattered all over the place

Thats not what they said in the bangkok post article the said the clothes were found piled neatly

nearby

Sorry not sure if we are getting mixed up. I definatly have seen a picture on here at the crime scene of the clothes on a rock on top of each other neatly. A police picture I think. Then there's the pictures as shown above scattered . It was when we were discussing the crime scene being compromised etc and items moved and not recorded and DNA possibly tainted. And the picture above of the clothes laid out were I think I remember for the benefit of the press at a later date and not at the crime scene

Guys and Girls the DNA the RTP are relying on is the DNA from Hannah's swabs. Some cig butts as well. Nothing else as far as I know.

However Pornthip's fired up and ready to go on the 11th Sept so lets see what wonders of forensic science she has tucked up her sleeve.

Andys bursting to say I can sense but he cant. he gave us a teaser today with his tweet. He knows they all know what they have found out .. we just got to sit on the edge of our seats and wait.

[Madaussie]

I notice the pink flip flops, which i guess Hannah wore, but on the night she was wearing white flat shoes, off course she could have changed which suggests she went back to her room. Or maybe i need to go to spec savers, apologies if i am wrong.

Video at 31 seconds

Maybe the pink flip flops weren't her's? Maybe one of the killers stole her shoes and left their flip flops. Who is to say there was not a woman present?

Just a thought

[AleG]

Whether or not the 'allegations of torture are clearly neither here nor there" idea is the comment of someone who claims to sit on the fence, yet has a clear agenda, or a genuinely interested observer who isn't too bright may never be known.

Regardless, they miss the point in a spectacular way.

You very conveniently cut the quote, here it is again with the very relevant part you left out: "In any case the allegations of torture are neither here or there in respect of whether they are innocent or not."

If they were tortured that is a case to answer for by the police, but the current case is about the murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge and if they did it or not doesn't depend on whether they were tortured or not.

In my opinion, their various confessions make more sense than their account of events after the retraction; so I'm waiting to hear how they clarify them.

[KunMatt]

Whether or not the 'allegations of torture are clearly neither here nor there" idea is the comment of someone who claims to sit on the fence, yet has a clear agenda, or a genuinely interested observer who isn't too bright may never be known.

Regardless, they miss the point in a spectacular way.

You very conveniently cut the quote, here it is again with the very relevant part you left out: "In any case the allegations of torture are neither here or there in respect of whether they are innocent or not."

If they were tortured that is a case to answer for by the police, but the current case is about the murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge and if they did it or not doesn't depend on whether they were tortured or not.

In my opinion, their various confessions make more sense than their account of events after the retraction; so I'm waiting to hear how they clarify them.

So do you now believe that they were tortured into confessing or not?

[Madaussie]

Absolutely not, but you saw my post about the false statement in court by the RTP saying they were in a neat pile right? Why would they say that when those clothes were not in a neat pile when found? Because thats the story the RTP want to have us believe. Now in reality could it be true?

As stated before every indication is that no its not true based on the true condition of the clothes, the fact that it was the first time they had ever met, in all pics of them that night they were never together and infact David went home with Chris leaving Hannah alone with her friends. Obviously there are reports they were seen together later in the AC bar but that does not indicate any intimacy. The estimated time of death as stated by the Police pathologist was 5.30am. The estimated time of leaving the AC bar was between 2 and 3am. That leaves a minimum gap of 2.5 hours and up to 3.5 hours that is unaccounted for, where I believe something much more sinister happened.

In addition we have the blonde hair that Hannah was found clutching, this clearly does not fit in the the prosecution case at all as its proof there is at least another person unaccounted for in this crime

Just on a point of information, we really do not know the time of death. The police pathologist stated the time of death could not be determined because the bodies were frozen. The doctor called to the scene presumably did not know how to use a rectal thermometer, or was not asked to estimate time of death. My own suspicion is that it probably occurred prior to the initial running man CCTV (always assuming the date/time on that can be trusted).

Point taken it was the doctor at the scene who estimated the time of death and did this under oath:

In later testimony local doctor Chasit Yoohat, who examined the bodies on the beach, told the court that Witheridge had recently had sex and suffered traumatic head injuries while Miller's body was found naked and had been struck, but without the same level of injury. He estimated the time of death for both was around 5.30 am http://news.yahoo.com/thai-police-competence-questioned-brit-tourists-murder-trial-113911746.html

Well I would disagree with the 5.30.

That's to late. The tide had done a turn with Hannah in situ. her legs up and her foot buried in the sand from the wash of the waves. Almost like rigamortis had set in when they positioned her like that. If you had died your legs would fall down but hers where still up in a missionary position. they set the scene and then bashed her head in. so it was earlier IMHO. enough for the tide to turn and wash her foot into the sand.

[IslandLover]

I believe the Defence has spoken to the 3 friends of Hannah and Also Chris and Jimmy Ware.

I would have expected them to have tried to ascertain if Nomsod was seen by any them and if they had any photos taken with him in it as well as many other issues. If they don't get this I would doubt his presence is likely to be proven. If there's anyone who could speak up it would be them. I also know they have tried to get McAnna to speak via video link to give evidence. I do not know the outcome of this.

We are in for some action though. Significant disclosures. Fingers crossed the judges take it on board.

@Madaussie - Tom Wood made this statement on facebook on December 3, 2014...have no idea if the defence spoke to either him or Matt Barrat though.

Tom Wood - Most importantly there’s nothing more that we would like than for this

case to be solved and for justice for Hannah and David. Me and Matt are just two lads from the UK who visited Koh Tao on our travels throughout Thailand…. We met Hannah and Emma ( H

annah’s friend she was travelling with) for the first time in a bar in Koh Tao that

night, and then proceeded to another bar with them in which Hannah and David went there separate ways….. I assume to the

beach. We have already been questioned by the Thai police, given full statements,explained and tried to help as much and in the best way we could by describing the whole night. Any misleading comments

from people jumping on the bandwagon, accusing us or calling for us to step up for justice are quite frankly out of place and unfair as we’ve already done all we could.

Happy to try and help or answer any further questions to anyone official if it’s needed. Thanks

December 3, 2014 at 8:00pm

Seems that Tom Wood needs to be in court then to give this information first hand. 'Hannah and David went their separate ways' reads to me like Hannah and David separated but it sounds like he means they left the bar together. So Tom Wood could tell the court what bar they were in, approximate time they left and why he assumed they went to the beach. He might also be able to tell the court if he witnessed any altercation that evening/morning. This information coming from a man who only met Hannah and David that night? If that's the case then the victims friends should hopefully be able to fill in many more details about when they left, whether they were together when they left, whether there was an argument of any sort and if they did actually leave by the back door. Maybe Tom's statement will be read in court by the defence and shed some light.

Sean said David had returned to the guesthouse but then gone out for some cigarettes.

It was Chris Ware who said that, not Sean. Sean was supposed to be tucked up in bed that night, nursing a hangover, remember?

Edited September 4, 2015 by IslandLover

[BritTim]

No this picture I think was for the benefit of the press.. The RTP had shown a picture of the crime scene with the clothes neatly piled on top of each other. But previously someone had posted on Facebook the actual crime scene with the clothes scattered all over the place

Thats not what they said in the bangkok post article the said the clothes were found piled neatly

nearby

Sorry not sure if we are getting mixed up. I definatly have seen a picture on here at the crime scene of the clothes on a rock on top of each other neatly. A police picture I think. Then there's the pictures as shown above scattered . It was when we were discussing the crime scene being compromised etc and items moved and not recorded and DNA possibly tainted. And the picture above of the clothes laid out were I think I remember for the benefit of the press at a later date and not at the crime scene

Guys and Girls the DNA the RTP are relying on is the DNA from Hannah's swabs. Some cig butts as well. Nothing else as far as I know.

However Pornthip's fired up and ready to go on the 11th Sept so lets see what wonders of forensic science she has tucked up her sleeve.

Andys bursting to say I can sense but he cant. he gave us a teaser today with his tweet. He knows they all know what they have found out .. we just got to sit on the edge of our seats and wait.

I think partly AH is trying to generate media interest. He is probably disappointed (as am I) that the case does not have a higher profile.

[Madaussie]

"Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

Wonder why they did not produce this in court, I would agree it seemed AH twitter reported things in the defence favour when they were revealed in court, and not alot in terms of what the prosecution said so maybe some things we do not know about, take the last day for the prosecution for example not much has came out about what went on for 10 hours +.

The fuller text of the article says:

"Rumours have circulated about a possible altercation at the AC Bar between the two victims and a group of Thai men.

However, Panya Mamen, the police chief, said interviews with Ms Witheridge's friends indicated there had been "no such confrontation".

Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public."

It could be because what was thought was just rumors after all. Since rumors also said there was a fight, and an acquaintance of the victims that was there said that was not true, rumors are kind of in the back step then.

As for court reports, yes, most of it has come from Andy Hall and press that calls the defendants things like "Baby faced Burmese", so obviously there's going to be a bias.

I thought this was all to boring for you ntil the trial re starts. So why sre you posting?

I didn't say that, did I?

Quite the contrary in fact, I'm interested in hearing about the actual trial; what bores me are the endless alternative theories being rehashed over and over again and leading to the same place as before, nowhere.

You speak as though we force you to read them.

Why don't you do what I do when something's on the tv I don't like....... Turn it off. I don't shout at the tv hey shut up you ..

[Madaussie]

Crime scene clearly shows that a lot of time had passed with Hannah in that location as per cropped photo to avoid distress as much as possible.

My apologises but I cant be arguing about who has money but more than happy to discuss the case and the crime scene.

By the way Hannah still had her clothes on less her panty when she was killed. Top pulled down and skirt pulled up.

[IslandLover]

Sean said David had returned to the guesthouse but then gone out for some cigarettes.

Sean never saw David that night. If you know different, this is huge new evidence: contact the defense team. Also, as David was a non smoker, it is unclear who he would buy cigarettes for.

Reports that are credible have the Ware brothers he was rooming with saying David left to look for Hannah. CCTV subsequently sees him enter AC Bar some time after Hannah.

David was a smoker, apparently. Chris Ware (who is also a smoker) is reported in the British press as saying that he and David went back to the Ocean View after Choppers bar, stopped on the way for a sandwich, and then David went out again, ostensibly to buy cigarettes (and maybe look for Hannah, I don't know). If David wasn't a smoker, perhaps he was buying the cigarettes for Chris Ware. I can't remember which press report this was in now (Daily Mirror perhaps?) but it's out there if someone can find it.

[bamukloy]

Is it just me or is there any increased level of aggression among the shills ever since the defence's case started? The baits and flames are coming out in full force. There is no way that any logical and objective person can say that the prosecution has proved their case beyond any reasonable doubt. In fact, their perfect have flamed the fires of doubt every greater.

And yet, there is a contingent of about 4-5 posters who take great pain to put down logical and sensible posts. The only conclusion I can draw is that they are all out to get as many posters suspended/banned as possible with their biased and disgusting posts, knowing full well that sensible posters struggle to deal with BS and misdirections and are compelled to respond to set the record straight.

I think they are just sad sorry loosers that couldnt make it i the west, then have their prayers answered after arriving here and being treated like the special farang hansum man.

Of course, they have embraced their Thainess and the 'face' factor so well. Thats why they cant admit they are wrong or overlooked things.

The funny thing is they think they are doing the country (or whoever it is whos puppeteering them)

a big favour that will pay dividends, but anyone with a few noggins would realize they are just as expendible as the B2 if the S hit the F.

[balo]

bamukloy : "I think they are just sad sorry loosers"

Just a friendly reminder that we have agreed to focus on the case and not comment on other members. Maybe you are new here but mod already gave out a few warnings .

If you do not agree with someones opinion it gives you no right to call them "sad sorry loosers". Just ignore them or me if you like and carry on.