Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[HUH]

A little more on the unofficial court reports, this one from Andy Hall

Zaw Lin’s clothes was tested for blood but came back negative so police alleged he washed his clothes with some strong chemical to remove any traces of blood that came from a very violent murder.

Hannah’s clothes worn on that night (skirt and top) are not even listed as official piece of evidence, apparently never tested and seem to have disappeared, according to defense lawyers. Hannah’s alleged underwear was found but never tested for DNA. David’s clothes in contrast was fully tested even though he was found naked apart from one sock. Hannah’s clothes not tested even though on her body when it was found, clothes allegedly pulled around by an alleged violent rapist and which more than anything else should have DNA of the perpetrator (s) on it.

So did David's clothes that were tested have the Burmese men's DNA all over them? Oh sorry I forgot that Hannah and David were alleged to have been making out when they were attacked. What was the DNA result of David's clothes then?

Very good question, I'm sure the Police forensic dept has the answer somewhere once they get to put a date on it and get it signed

[catsanddogs]

I spent a little time on Koh Tao last year, beautiful Island, and was there just before the horrific murders took place, obviously I have been following this with interest, and I have yet to read anywhere as to what was the motive behind such a barbaric attack, as it seems to be the case that the British Pathologist reports has serious differences between the Thai one.

What was the motive?

some nasty lowlife scum that thinks he is something preying on innocent farang women on the island on holiday doesn't like being told to F'off in front of his mates when he tries it on

I said a very long time ago that it was probably Hannah on her own was followed out of the bar intending to walk a short distance to her room, David got involved by chance when he went to investigate a commotion on the beach near his room, he was likely assaulted and murdered first and that sealed Hannah's fate as she was a witness

Motive - some coward scum losing face in the bar during an altercation

Glad you posted that cos I just remembered that in that post that HUH put up from Andy Hall twitter earlier on, it said about the altercation not being looked into. I'm sure it said 'Hannah's' argument/altercation. Not an argument/altercation, which makes me wonder if the defence may know something. I'll check.

I've checked.

It reads 'Other lead not followed up ie Hannah's argument'

nb my bold to stress the point.

[catsanddogs]

The Cruncher - re your post 2451 - I was asking for an original link please - not a link to something another poster said on TV. Do you have a link to a newspaper report regards what the Miller family allegedly said, or a news site. Thank you.

[Eirene]

Kor toht ka. I no can say name friend. Their no tell me name anyone. Sorry. I have go work now ka.

Careful mookem... there's a lot of ka ka flying around here. Interesting name you have there.

Edit:oops...sorry misspelt your name.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Eirene

[RWA]

I spent a little time on Koh Tao last year, beautiful Island, and was there just before the horrific murders took place, obviously I have been following this with interest, and I have yet to read anywhere as to what was the motive behind such a barbaric attack, as it seems to be the case that the British Pathologist reports has serious differences between the Thai one.

What was the motive?

some nasty lowlife scum that thinks he is something preying on innocent farang women on the island on holiday doesn't like being told to F'off in front of his mates when he tries it on

I said a very long time ago that it was probably Hannah on her own was followed out of the bar intending to walk a short distance to her room, David got involved by chance when he went to investigate a commotion on the beach near his room, he was likely assaulted and murdered first and that sealed Hannah's fate as she was a witness

Motive - some coward scum losing face in the bar during an altercation

I agree Smedly, it sounds just about right ... but still ... WHY would Hannah leave her phone (and perhaps some other items, i.e. purse, keys, etc.,) with her friend before going ALONE back to her room?!!! What on Earth should be the reason for it?

[RWA]

A little more on the unofficial court reports, this one from Andy Hall

Zaw Lin’s clothes was tested for blood but came back negative so police alleged he washed his clothes with some strong chemical to remove any traces of blood that came from a very violent murder.

Hannah’s clothes worn on that night (skirt and top) are not even listed as official piece of evidence, apparently never tested and seem to have disappeared, according to defense lawyers. Hannah’s alleged underwear was found but never tested for DNA. David’s clothes in contrast was fully tested even though he was found naked apart from one sock. Hannah’s clothes not tested even though on her body when it was found, clothes allegedly pulled around by an alleged violent rapist and which more than anything else should have DNA of the perpetrator (s) on it.

If Zaw's clothes has been washed with some "strong chemicals" to remove any traces of the blood, so then the Wai's clothes should be as well, and that would indeed, left a forensic "chemical" traces that can be easily analyzed!!! (That means if the "blood" has been washed out, there won't be any other forensic - bodily, traces left either ... is this the case, or not?)

The Hannah's parent have full right to claim their daughters clothes as their own and demand a detailed, official protocol where they are and why they cannot be provided to them.

Professional forensic analyzes, again, can be done on the cloths to reveal whether they have been cleaned of all DNA or not ...!

Or, just to demonstrate, this time without the doubt, how the crucial evidence is treated by the official professionals.

Edited October 16, 2015 by RWA

[Dogmatix]

Investigators Tuesday interrogated Montriwat Toovichien, a 45-year-old bartender at AC Bar on Koh Tao who identified as the man seen in closed-circuit video footage in the hours before the Sept 15 bludgeoning deaths of Britons David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23.........

Pol Lt Gen Panya said a second suspect, who fled the resort island to Bangkok, will likely be taken into custody soon........

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

I notice there is photo which McAnna put up on his FB page of Mon and Big Ears cop which reads underneath -

A photo taken by a Scottish tourist of two men suspected by police of involvement in the killing of two British tourists on Koh Tao.

This is the first I have read that the COP was suspected of involvement in the murders. Did he take a DNA test? Why has nothing been seen or heard of him regarding this investigation and trial? Nothing whatsoever. I find this most suspicious.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-suspect-arrested-another-on-the-run.html

Good job, digging up 13 month old articles with the excuse I haven't seen that, to keep the conspiracy going.

I thought you always tells other posters that they should read up before posting, so you were not aware of this picture on Sean's FB page?

By the way hasn't the picture been removed?

So the policeman is a suspect and he should have his DNA tested? Suspected by who, by someone who was seen leaving Koh Tao with blood spots on his guitar?

Well maybe I suspect the toilet cleaner. Why wasn't his DNA taken?

If, as determined by the British Home Office pathologist, there was no evidence of sexual assault, then the Thai police autopsy report finding of semen from Mr A and Mr B must have been staged. The implication would be that police were given carte blanche to assign the identities of Mr A and Mr B to any two expendable males that could be tortured into confessing and a fake match could then be announced based on their saliva samples alone. The fact that no other DNA or finger print evidence was presented by police or prosecutors from the multiple items at their disposal, eg Hannah's clothing, the hoe, the blond hair with root, the blood splatterings the cigarette butts, the condom, the phone is entirely consistent with a proactive approach having been taken by police pathologists under big pressure from upstairs to facilitate an outcome in the national interests.

A brilliant piece of policing combining modern technology with the traditional method of the police boot applied to the testicles in a 'safe' house. And the old method has been proving particularly effective with the large numbers of undocumented migrants who have been encouraged by corrupt officials to come to be ruthlessly exploited by Thai employers. Since there is no official record of your existence in Thailand, no one need ever account for your disappearance.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Dogmatix

[RWA]

If, as determined by the British Home Office pathologist, there was no evidence of sexual assault, then the Thai police autopsy report finding of semen from Mr A and Mr B must have been staged. The implication would be that police were given carte blanche to assign the identities of Mr A and Mr B to any two expendable males that could be tortured into confessing and a fake match could then be announced based on their saliva samples alone.

A brilliant piece of policing combining modern technology with the traditional method of the police boot applied to the testicles in a 'safe' house. And the old method has been proving particularly effective with the large numbers of undocumented migrants who have been encouraged by corrupt officials to come to be ruthlessly exploited by Thai employers. Since there is no official record of your existence in Thailand, no one need ever account for your disappearance.

exactly !!!!

You nailed it !

Edited October 16, 2015 by metisdead
2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[IslandLover]

RWA, on 16 Oct 2015 - 01:59, said:

smedly, on 15 Oct 2015 - 17:39, said:

Phil MacRaken, on 15 Oct 2015 - 17:15, said:

I spent a little time on Koh Tao last year, beautiful Island, and was there just before the horrific murders took place, obviously I have been following this with interest, and I have yet to read anywhere as to what was the motive behind such a barbaric attack, as it seems to be the case that the British Pathologist reports has serious differences between the Thai one.

What was the motive?

some nasty lowlife scum that thinks he is something preying on innocent farang women on the island on holiday doesn't like being told to F'off in front of his mates when he tries it on

I said a very long time ago that it was probably Hannah on her own was followed out of the bar intending to walk a short distance to her room, David got involved by chance when he went to investigate a commotion on the beach near his room, he was likely assaulted and murdered first and that sealed Hannah's fate as she was a witness

Motive - some coward scum losing face in the bar during an altercation

I agree Smedly, it sounds just about right ... but still ... WHY would Hannah leave her phone (and perhaps some other items, i.e. purse, keys, etc.,) with her friend before going ALONE back to her room?!!! What on Earth should be the reason for it?

I think Hannah had her purse (wallet) with her when she left Choppers bar with her friend Emma and two guys. If you look at the CCTV footage she is carrying something in her right hand. So what happened to it?

[aphuketinsider]

Hovering Driving on my way to work this morning was listening to the news on the radio in the car, perhaps the justice system is beginning to take notice because of the recent high profile cases that have involved DNA including of course this KT horror

BANGKOK, 16 October 2015 (NNT) – The National Legislative Assembly has accepted in principle a draft law on forensic science services.

Justice Minister Gen. Paiboon Kumchaya told the NLA that as scientific and technological advancement has become more crucial to the justice system, along with other investigations to ensure justice,

Members of the NLA have agreed with the draft but noted that the standards of Thai forensic science still needs to be upgraded to match that of other ASEAN countries and even on an international level. http://nwnt.prd.go.th/CenterWeb/NewsEN/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNPOL5810150010013

Edited October 16, 2015 by aphuketinsider

[sweatalot]

I spent a little time on Koh Tao last year, beautiful Island, and was there just before the horrific murders took place, obviously I have been following this with interest, and I have yet to read anywhere as to what was the motive behind such a barbaric attack, as it seems to be the case that the British Pathologist reports has serious differences between the Thai one.

What was the motive?

some nasty lowlife scum that thinks he is something preying on innocent farang women on the island on holiday doesn't like being told to F'off in front of his mates when he tries it on

I said a very long time ago that it was probably Hannah on her own was followed out of the bar intending to walk a short distance to her room, David got involved by chance when he went to investigate a commotion on the beach near his room, he was likely assaulted and murdered first and that sealed Hannah's fate as she was a witness

Motive - some coward scum losing face in the bar during an altercation

I hesitated a little bit, but then decided to give you a like because this scenario is much more likely than that of the RTP or any other one I can think of - but we have to be aware that other scenarios are possible as well. We don't really know, but it is a shame or better a scandal that RTP not even considered this.

Edited October 16, 2015 by sweatalot

[sweatalot]

Hovering Driving on my way to work this morning was listening to the news on the radio in the car, perhaps the justice system is beginning to take notice because of the recent high profile cases that have involved DNA including of course this KT horror

BANGKOK, 16 October 2015 (NNT) – The National Legislative Assembly has accepted in principle a draft law on forensic science services.

Justice Minister Gen. Paiboon Kumchaya told the NLA that as scientific and technological advancement has become more crucial to the justice system, along with other investigations to ensure justice,

Members of the NLA have agreed with the draft but noted that the standards of Thai forensic science still needs to be upgraded to match that of other ASEAN countries and even on an international level. http://nwnt.prd.go.th/CenterWeb/NewsEN/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNPOL5810150010013

Making the forensic science safe from being manipulated seems to be more important in Thailand then just upgrading me thinks

[RWA]

RWA, on 16 Oct 2015 - 01:59, said:

smedly, on 15 Oct 2015 - 17:39, said:

Phil MacRaken, on 15 Oct 2015 - 17:15, said:

I spent a little time on Koh Tao last year, beautiful Island, and was there just before the horrific murders took place, obviously I have been following this with interest, and I have yet to read anywhere as to what was the motive behind such a barbaric attack, as it seems to be the case that the British Pathologist reports has serious differences between the Thai one.

What was the motive?

some nasty lowlife scum that thinks he is something preying on innocent farang women on the island on holiday doesn't like being told to F'off in front of his mates when he tries it on

I said a very long time ago that it was probably Hannah on her own was followed out of the bar intending to walk a short distance to her room, David got involved by chance when he went to investigate a commotion on the beach near his room, he was likely assaulted and murdered first and that sealed Hannah's fate as she was a witness

Motive - some coward scum losing face in the bar during an altercation

I agree Smedly, it sounds just about right ... but still ... WHY would Hannah leave her phone (and perhaps some other items, i.e. purse, keys, etc.,) with her friend before going ALONE back to her room?!!! What on Earth should be the reason for it?

I think Hannah had her purse (wallet) with her when she left Choppers bar with her friend Emma and two guys. If you look at the CCTV footage she is carrying something in her right hand. So what happened to it?

yes, I've seen it

but that was the Choppers bar, then they went to AC bar

then she must have left the AC alone and without her phone (that was given by Emma to the police after the murders next day)

so why Emma can't tell where Hannah went alone and without her phone?!

She sure must know, noh?

(They have been together throughout the whole night, until this point)

[HUH]

I think Hannah had her purse (wallet) with her when she left Choppers bar with her friend Emma and two guys. If you look at the CCTV footage she is carrying something in her right hand. So what happened to it?

I'm pretty sure it was found at the crime scene, looks like its pictured here above Davids shoes. I do remember very early reports from the RTP after the bodies were found that robbery was not thought to be the motive, it was also mentioned a small amount of cash was found and phones. This was at the time the RTP were pushing the theory that Chris Ware was involved and Thai language media was making all sorts of unfounded claims of a bisexual motive. The no robbery theory fitted in with this. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-tourists-bludgeoned-to-death-on-thailand-beach-suspicion-falls-back-on-brit/story-fnizu68q-1227059461113

the police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found in the hand of Hannah Westridge.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner

Yet police had also said on Tuesday that they were convinced that it was crime of jealously, passion or anger due to the extent of the injures to Ms Westridge and lack of any other motives, including robbery.

Edited October 16, 2015 by HUH

[RWA]

I think Hannah had her purse (wallet) with her when she left Choppers bar with her friend Emma and two guys. If you look at the CCTV footage she is carrying something in her right hand. So what happened to it?

I'm pretty sure it was found at the crime scene, looks like its pictured here above Davids shoes. I do remember very early reports from the RTP after the bodies were found that robbery was not thought to be the motive, it was also mentioned a small amount of cash was found and phones. This was at the time the RTP were pushing the theory that Chris Ware was involved and Thai language media was making all sorts of unfounded claims of a bisexual motive. The no robbery theory fitted in with this. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-tourists-bludgeoned-to-death-on-thailand-beach-suspicion-falls-back-on-brit/story-fnizu68q-1227059461113

the police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found in the hand of Hannah Westridge.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner

Yet police had also said on Tuesday that they were convinced that it was crime of jealously, passion or anger due to the extent of the injures to Ms Westridge and lack of any other motives, including robbery.

no way HUH,

there is a video from the police station, where Emma is giving Hannah phone to the police officer next day after the murders were discovered.

Remember, this video went viral right after the RTP announced, that the phone found in the bushes behind the B2 dormitory, which they first claimed is belong to Hannah. (so this particular video proved them wrong, as it just could not been Hannah phone they found there. This is why they changed the "story" afterwards, saying it was not Hannah's but David's instead)

That's why my question still remains:

why Emma haven't clarified WHERE was Hannah going from the AC bar - on her own (for the first time during the whole night) and WITHOUT her phone?!!!

[HUH]

I think Hannah had her purse (wallet) with her when she left Choppers bar with her friend Emma and two guys. If you look at the CCTV footage she is carrying something in her right hand. So what happened to it?

I'm pretty sure it was found at the crime scene, looks like its pictured here above Davids shoes. I do remember very early reports from the RTP after the bodies were found that robbery was not thought to be the motive, it was also mentioned a small amount of cash was found and phones. This was at the time the RTP were pushing the theory that Chris Ware was involved and Thai language media was making all sorts of unfounded claims of a bisexual motive. The no robbery theory fitted in with this. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-tourists-bludgeoned-to-death-on-thailand-beach-suspicion-falls-back-on-brit/story-fnizu68q-1227059461113

the police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found in the hand of Hannah Westridge.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner

Yet police had also said on Tuesday that they were convinced that it was crime of jealously, passion or anger due to the extent of the injures to Ms Westridge and lack of any other motives, including robbery.

no way HUH,

there is a video from the police station, where Emma is giving Hannah phone to the police officer next day after the murders were discovered.

Remember, this video went viral right after the RTP announced, that the phone found in the bushes behind the B2 dormitory, which they first claimed is belong to Hannah. (so this particular video proved them wrong, as it just could not been Hannah phone they found there. This is why they changed the "story" afterwards, saying it was not Hannah's but David's instead)

That's why my question still remains:

why Emma haven't clarified WHERE was Hannah going from the AC bar - on her own (for the first time during the whole night) and WITHOUT her phone?!!!

Yes agreed, but I'm not referring to Hannah's phone, I'm referring to the other phone that was found at the beach: From the trial: Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha, failed to confirm whether the mobile phone and SIM card found on the beach belonged to Mr Miller

[RWA]

I'm pretty sure it was found at the crime scene, looks like its pictured here above Davids shoes. I do remember very early reports from the RTP after the bodies were found that robbery was not thought to be the motive, it was also mentioned a small amount of cash was found and phones. This was at the time the RTP were pushing the theory that Chris Ware was involved and Thai language media was making all sorts of unfounded claims of a bisexual motive. The no robbery theory fitted in with this. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-tourists-bludgeoned-to-death-on-thailand-beach-suspicion-falls-back-on-brit/story-fnizu68q-1227059461113

the police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found in the hand of Hannah Westridge.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner

Yet police had also said on Tuesday that they were convinced that it was crime of jealously, passion or anger due to the extent of the injures to Ms Westridge and lack of any other motives, including robbery.

.... I don't know ... I don't want to sound disgusting or anything ... but ...

I noticed just now ... when I'm looking at the top left corner item, on what supposed to be Hannah panties, ... ehmmm, I just can't help it: why it does look to me more like a tinny (Thai) man underwear, rather than a young, fancy girl's bit? ... really, I just can't imagine Hannah (or any other young girl for that matter) to wear anything this much in-feminine (with such a tall waist and somewhat a lot of material in the crotch..?!!!!)

or is it just by an angle of camera lens, or ... I don't know, but it looks weird ...

... also .... IF (!!!) that piece of evidence (that is hopefully not lost too) has been forensically examined - what DNA did THIS offered? ... there must be plenty of it, right?

Edited October 16, 2015 by RWA

[Patsycat]

Just looking at those little pink flip flops makes me sad.

Did Sean give his DNA before he scurried off to Italy?

[HUH]

I'm pretty sure it was found at the crime scene, looks like its pictured here above Davids shoes. I do remember very early reports from the RTP after the bodies were found that robbery was not thought to be the motive, it was also mentioned a small amount of cash was found and phones. This was at the time the RTP were pushing the theory that Chris Ware was involved and Thai language media was making all sorts of unfounded claims of a bisexual motive. The no robbery theory fitted in with this. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-tourists-bludgeoned-to-death-on-thailand-beach-suspicion-falls-back-on-brit/story-fnizu68q-1227059461113

the police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found in the hand of Hannah Westridge.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner

Yet police had also said on Tuesday that they were convinced that it was crime of jealously, passion or anger due to the extent of the injures to Ms Westridge and lack of any other motives, including robbery.

.... I don't know ... I don't want to sound disgusting or anything ... but ...

I noticed just now ... when I'm looking at the top left corner item, on what supposed to be Hannah panties, ... ehmmm, I just can't help it: why it does look to me more like a tinny (Thai) man underwear, rather than a young, fancy girl's bit? ... really, I just can't imagine Hannah (or any other young girl for that matter) to wear anything this much in-feminine (with such a tall waist and somewhat a lot of material in the crotch..?!!!!)

or is it just by an angle of camera lens, or ... I don't know, but it looks weird ...

items.jpg

... also .... IF (!!!) that piece of evidence (that is hopefully not lost too) has been forensically examined - what DNA did THIS offered? ... there must be plenty of it, right?

Amazingly, Hannah’s alleged underwear was found but never tested for DNA.

[RWA]

I think Hannah had her purse (wallet) with her when she left Choppers bar with her friend Emma and two guys. If you look at the CCTV footage she is carrying something in her right hand. So what happened to it?

I'm pretty sure it was found at the crime scene, looks like its pictured here above Davids shoes. I do remember very early reports from the RTP after the bodies were found that robbery was not thought to be the motive, it was also mentioned a small amount of cash was found and phones. This was at the time the RTP were pushing the theory that Chris Ware was involved and Thai language media was making all sorts of unfounded claims of a bisexual motive. The no robbery theory fitted in with this. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-tourists-bludgeoned-to-death-on-thailand-beach-suspicion-falls-back-on-brit/story-fnizu68q-1227059461113

the police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found in the hand of Hannah Westridge.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner

Yet police had also said on Tuesday that they were convinced that it was crime of jealously, passion or anger due to the extent of the injures to Ms Westridge and lack of any other motives, including robbery.

no way HUH,

there is a video from the police station, where Emma is giving Hannah phone to the police officer next day after the murders were discovered.

Remember, this video went viral right after the RTP announced, that the phone found in the bushes behind the B2 dormitory, which they first claimed is belong to Hannah. (so this particular video proved them wrong, as it just could not been Hannah phone they found there. This is why they changed the "story" afterwards, saying it was not Hannah's but David's instead)

That's why my question still remains:

why Emma haven't clarified WHERE was Hannah going from the AC bar - on her own (for the first time during the whole night) and WITHOUT her phone?!!!

Yes agreed, but I'm not referring to Hannah's phone, I'm referring to the other phone that was found at the beach: From the trial: Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha, failed to confirm whether the mobile phone and SIM card found on the beach belonged to Mr Miller

yeah, right ... damned it, ... it's just like what already has been mentioned here several times: how many bloody phones have they really found (I recall some one said at least FOUR!!!), where and belong to whom? It is so easy to determine the smart phone ownership (or better say the "user") and recover the data from SIM and phone memory ...

[Dogmatix]

I spent a little time on Koh Tao last year, beautiful Island, and was there just before the horrific murders took place, obviously I have been following this with interest, and I have yet to read anywhere as to what was the motive behind such a barbaric attack, as it seems to be the case that the British Pathologist reports has serious differences between the Thai one.

What was the motive?

some nasty lowlife scum that thinks he is something preying on innocent farang women on the island on holiday doesn't like being told to F'off in front of his mates when he tries it on

I said a very long time ago that it was probably Hannah on her own was followed out of the bar intending to walk a short distance to her room, David got involved by chance when he went to investigate a commotion on the beach near his room, he was likely assaulted and murdered first and that sealed Hannah's fate as she was a witness

Motive - some coward scum losing face in the bar during an altercation

I hesitated a little bit, but then decided to give you a like because this scenario is much more likely than that of the RTP or any other one I can think of - but we have to be aware that other scenarios are possible as well. We don't really know, but it is a shame or better a scandal that RTP not even considered this.

It is very likely that after Panya was promoted to an inactive post for pursuing a non-PC line of investigation, senior police had no need to consider this or that scenario because they had the luxury of knowing what had happened which was not the scenario presented by the prosecution.

[RWA]

Just looking at those little pink flip flops makes me sad.

Did Sean give his DNA before he scurried off to Italy?

yes, Patsycat, it is very sad, painful ...

No, Sean didn't give his DNA (as far as reporting goes) because it was already established that the DNA belongs to Asian man, not a Caucasian.

And what do you think when looking on those little pink, girly flip flops and the supposedly Hannah's panties (embarrassingly none-girly, little, sexy stuff for otherwise very sexy girl on her night out) ... do you (and I guess you are a female yourself) think she would put on anything like this? Tell me please ...?!

[StealthEnergiser]

I'm pretty sure it was found at the crime scene, looks like its pictured here above Davids shoes. I do remember very early reports from the RTP after the bodies were found that robbery was not thought to be the motive, it was also mentioned a small amount of cash was found and phones. This was at the time the RTP were pushing the theory that Chris Ware was involved and Thai language media was making all sorts of unfounded claims of a bisexual motive. The no robbery theory fitted in with this. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-tourists-bludgeoned-to-death-on-thailand-beach-suspicion-falls-back-on-brit/story-fnizu68q-1227059461113

the police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found in the hand of Hannah Westridge.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner

Yet police had also said on Tuesday that they were convinced that it was crime of jealously, passion or anger due to the extent of the injures to Ms Westridge and lack of any other motives, including robbery.

.... I don't know ... I don't want to sound disgusting or anything ... but ...

I noticed just now ... when I'm looking at the top left corner item, on what supposed to be Hannah panties, ... ehmmm, I just can't help it: why it does look to me more like a tinny (Thai) man underwear, rather than a young, fancy girl's bit? ... really, I just can't imagine Hannah (or any other young girl for that matter) to wear anything this much in-feminine (with such a tall waist and somewhat a lot of material in the crotch..?!!!!)

or is it just by an angle of camera lens, or ... I don't know, but it looks weird ...

items.jpg

... also .... IF (!!!) that piece of evidence (that is hopefully not lost too) has been forensically examined - what DNA did THIS offered? ... there must be plenty of it, right?

You may be right about those not being the correct panties , I have also wondered why the First Doctor who was on the scene posted this picture on his Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/chasit.yoohat

Edited October 16, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[RWA]

I'm pretty sure it was found at the crime scene, looks like its pictured here above Davids shoes. I do remember very early reports from the RTP after the bodies were found that robbery was not thought to be the motive, it was also mentioned a small amount of cash was found and phones. This was at the time the RTP were pushing the theory that Chris Ware was involved and Thai language media was making all sorts of unfounded claims of a bisexual motive. The no robbery theory fitted in with this. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/british-tourists-bludgeoned-to-death-on-thailand-beach-suspicion-falls-back-on-brit/story-fnizu68q-1227059461113

the police chief said that fragments of hair belonging to a foreigner had been found in the hand of Hannah Westridge.

He did not explain how the police knew that the hair was from a foreigner

Yet police had also said on Tuesday that they were convinced that it was crime of jealously, passion or anger due to the extent of the injures to Ms Westridge and lack of any other motives, including robbery.

.... I don't know ... I don't want to sound disgusting or anything ... but ...

I noticed just now ... when I'm looking at the top left corner item, on what supposed to be Hannah panties, ... ehmmm, I just can't help it: why it does look to me more like a tinny (Thai) man underwear, rather than a young, fancy girl's bit? ... really, I just can't imagine Hannah (or any other young girl for that matter) to wear anything this much in-feminine (with such a tall waist and somewhat a lot of material in the crotch..?!!!!)

or is it just by an angle of camera lens, or ... I don't know, but it looks weird ...

items.jpg

... also .... IF (!!!) that piece of evidence (that is hopefully not lost too) has been forensically examined - what DNA did THIS offered? ... there must be plenty of it, right?

Amazingly, Hannah’s alleged underwear was found but never tested for DNA.

geeeeez ... so back to Square One again

It really runs me mad ... why the heck nobody (no defense, nor Hannah's or David's family) claimed every single piece of the evidence (that's belong to the victim) to be given to them and carefully examined by the best possible, independent forensics?!!! ... this is all so helplesssss

[B166ER]

....perhaps the "extra" phones were from the perp's? Perhaps a certain individual was at the crime scene bright and bushy tailed in the morn to seek out lost phones. We know 100% for sure he was there to make sure gardening tools were in their right resting places. I'm sure panic would have gripped the owners of those phones totally linking them to the crime scene. No other enforcement agency protects their own like the "Blue Heelers"....right, big external acoustic meatus?....

Edited October 16, 2015 by B166ER

[GAZZPA]

It seems unfortunate that the defence had to place so much emphasis on the allegations of torture, which, although undoubtedly true, could no more be proven beyond a reasonable doubt than the defendants' commission of the rape and murders. That highlights the utterly unsound basis of this trial. The forced confessions were not only retracted but were inadmissible under Thai law, as pointed out by Ajarn Burin in his oped piece, because the defendants were not informed of their rights to remain silent and to have lawyers present.

The defence lawyers presumably knew that the prosecution would present the forced confessions as one of the two main planks of their case, along with the police's unverifiable DNA match from the tape that didn't take place.

They were also aware that the court would routinely accept forced confessions without Miranda rights, since this must be an every day occurrence in Thai courts.

In addition they were severely hampered in performing what should have been their main task of proving that the defendants could not have committed the crimes by the refusal by prosecutors and police to allow them access to the most critical evidence. That would include the DNA samples, the crime scene photographs, the victims' clothing, the CCTV footage etc etc.

This is going to sound like a weird post and I will try and explain what I mean as best as I can -

Apart from the interviews (torture as you put it) were the accused had no legal council (illegal IMO) no recordings.....nothing

Court proceedings basically come down to arguments - the prosecution present their case and the defense try to argue against it on behalf of the defendants - ok so we all know that, if you haven't been in court you have seen a fairly good representation on TV

In order for the defense council to do their job they must be presented with a factual case to argue against presented by the prosecution, lets take that thought to an extreme and work backwards, suppose the prosecution in this case stood up in court and said - the accused were on the beach that night (we all agree) and therefore they must be guilty, the only possible reply to that from defense council is confirmation - yes they were on the beach that night

So in very simplistic terms the prosecution has made their case and the defense have made theirs, they all agree so they must be guilty.

Expanding on that - prosecution say we have a DNA match connecting the accused to the victim, defense say show us the DNA we want to test and verify that evidence - oh sorry we no longer have that at which point a Judge should intervene and say - sorry that is not admissible in my court (replace DNA with GUN and you will get my meaning)

The point being and again very basic and simplistic, this case in terms of arguments left the defense council with very little to actually argue against because the prosecution didn't present anything viable, yes the defense and accused testified and covered the illegal interviews (which were illegal - fact) but in all honesty there was little else for defense council to do, it was a case of how do we fill in time here, ok we can get the accused to testify the last 2 days (which I said before was a mistake), we can get Pontip (expert) to test the Hoe for DNA ok all well and good but there was little else for them to do, how do you argue against a case when there is no real argument presented

We had the gun and it was a match but we worked so hard on it there is nothing left - it was exhausted

Oh the phone found at the crime scene did not belong to any of the victims so we never tested it

The murder weapon was missing when we arrived at the scene, what murder weapon ? the hoe, we left it right there and when we arrived back the gardener had removed it, we made him put it back

So basically, no real evidence was presented by the persecution that can be relied upon and the whole case rests upon the Police saying it is so. That means they are relying on the principal that "mud sticks", throw enough mud at it, even if it is not true and enough will stick to convict.

Then they sit back, say nothing, refuse or make stupid excuses as to why the defence cannot cross examine the "so called" evidence and wait for the conviction.

Very scary thought, but you are right. If they are convicted then this will be the worst stitch up I have ever seen or even heard of.

There is one thing that i can't get my head around, the UK pathologist sent a report stating that there was no evidence of rape. This completely destroys the claim that DNA has been found of the B2 inside Hannah. I know the judge does not have to take this as evidence as it is not in Thai jurisdiction but that fact will become very significant later if they are found guilty.

There is no real evidence and the world is watching, lets hope the Judge considers this more then the mud.

[HUH]

This is going to sound like a weird post and I will try and explain what I mean as best as I can -

Apart from the interviews (torture as you put it) were the accused had no legal council (illegal IMO) no recordings.....nothing

Court proceedings basically come down to arguments - the prosecution present their case and the defense try to argue against it on behalf of the defendants - ok so we all know that, if you haven't been in court you have seen a fairly good representation on TV

In order for the defense council to do their job they must be presented with a factual case to argue against presented by the prosecution, lets take that thought to an extreme and work backwards, suppose the prosecution in this case stood up in court and said - the accused were on the beach that night (we all agree) and therefore they must be guilty, the only possible reply to that from defense council is confirmation - yes they were on the beach that night

So in very simplistic terms the prosecution has made their case and the defense have made theirs, they all agree so they must be guilty.

Expanding on that - prosecution say we have a DNA match connecting the accused to the victim, defense say show us the DNA we want to test and verify that evidence - oh sorry we no longer have that at which point a Judge should intervene and say - sorry that is not admissible in my court (replace DNA with GUN and you will get my meaning)

The point being and again very basic and simplistic, this case in terms of arguments left the defense council with very little to actually argue against because the prosecution didn't present anything viable, yes the defense and accused testified and covered the illegal interviews (which were illegal - fact) but in all honesty there was little else for defense council to do, it was a case of how do we fill in time here, ok we can get the accused to testify the last 2 days (which I said before was a mistake), we can get Pontip (expert) to test the Hoe for DNA ok all well and good but there was little else for them to do, how do you argue against a case when there is no real argument presented

We had the gun and it was a match but we worked so hard on it there is nothing left - it was exhausted

Oh the phone found at the crime scene did not belong to any of the victims so we never tested it

The murder weapon was missing when we arrived at the scene, what murder weapon ? the hoe, we left it right there and when we arrived back the gardener had removed it, we made him put it back

So basically, no real evidence was presented by the persecution that can be relied upon and the whole case rests upon the Police saying it is so. That means they are relying on the principal that "mud sticks", throw enough mud at it, even if it is not true and enough will stick to convict.

Then they sit back, say nothing, refuse or make stupid excuses as to why the defence cannot cross examine the "so called" evidence and wait for the conviction.

Very scary thought, but you are right. If they are convicted then this will be the worst stitch up I have ever seen or even heard of.

There is one thing that i can't get my head around, the UK pathologist sent a report stating that there was no evidence of rape. This completely destroys the claim that DNA has been found of the B2 inside Hannah. I know the judge does not have to take this as evidence as it is not in Thai jurisdiction but that fact will become very significant later if they are found guilty.

There is no real evidence and the world is watching, lets hope the Judge considers this more then the mud.

And unlike the defense who are preparing a robust closing statement, the prosecution see no need for one apparently? What the F$uk?

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy Oct 13

@terryfrd @steadirob I understand from court on Sunday the prosecution won't write a closing statement, but maybe I misunderstood.

[GAZZPA]

This is going to sound like a weird post and I will try and explain what I mean as best as I can -

Apart from the interviews (torture as you put it) were the accused had no legal council (illegal IMO) no recordings.....nothing

Court proceedings basically come down to arguments - the prosecution present their case and the defense try to argue against it on behalf of the defendants - ok so we all know that, if you haven't been in court you have seen a fairly good representation on TV

In order for the defense council to do their job they must be presented with a factual case to argue against presented by the prosecution, lets take that thought to an extreme and work backwards, suppose the prosecution in this case stood up in court and said - the accused were on the beach that night (we all agree) and therefore they must be guilty, the only possible reply to that from defense council is confirmation - yes they were on the beach that night

So in very simplistic terms the prosecution has made their case and the defense have made theirs, they all agree so they must be guilty.

Expanding on that - prosecution say we have a DNA match connecting the accused to the victim, defense say show us the DNA we want to test and verify that evidence - oh sorry we no longer have that at which point a Judge should intervene and say - sorry that is not admissible in my court (replace DNA with GUN and you will get my meaning)

The point being and again very basic and simplistic, this case in terms of arguments left the defense council with very little to actually argue against because the prosecution didn't present anything viable, yes the defense and accused testified and covered the illegal interviews (which were illegal - fact) but in all honesty there was little else for defense council to do, it was a case of how do we fill in time here, ok we can get the accused to testify the last 2 days (which I said before was a mistake), we can get Pontip (expert) to test the Hoe for DNA ok all well and good but there was little else for them to do, how do you argue against a case when there is no real argument presented

We had the gun and it was a match but we worked so hard on it there is nothing left - it was exhausted

Oh the phone found at the crime scene did not belong to any of the victims so we never tested it

The murder weapon was missing when we arrived at the scene, what murder weapon ? the hoe, we left it right there and when we arrived back the gardener had removed it, we made him put it back

So basically, no real evidence was presented by the persecution that can be relied upon and the whole case rests upon the Police saying it is so. That means they are relying on the principal that "mud sticks", throw enough mud at it, even if it is not true and enough will stick to convict.

Then they sit back, say nothing, refuse or make stupid excuses as to why the defence cannot cross examine the "so called" evidence and wait for the conviction.

Very scary thought, but you are right. If they are convicted then this will be the worst stitch up I have ever seen or even heard of.

There is one thing that i can't get my head around, the UK pathologist sent a report stating that there was no evidence of rape. This completely destroys the claim that DNA has been found of the B2 inside Hannah. I know the judge does not have to take this as evidence as it is not in Thai jurisdiction but that fact will become very significant later if they are found guilty.

There is no real evidence and the world is watching, lets hope the Judge considers this more then the mud.

And unlike the defense who are preparing a robust closing statement, the prosecution see no need for one apparently? What the F$uk?

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy Oct 13

@terryfrd @steadirob I understand from court on Sunday the prosecution won't write a closing statement, but maybe I misunderstood.

Unbelievable right? I guess if the prosecution were to make a statement it would probably be a repeat of the mud slinging anyway,,,

"we found DNA inside Hannah, the guys confessed, they were on the beach and therefore they did it" At which point I could imagine the whole courtroom coughing into their handkerchiefs while uttering the words "Bullsh#t"

[GAZZPA]

A little more on the unofficial court reports, this one from Andy Hall

Zaw Lin’s clothes was tested for blood but came back negative so police alleged he washed his clothes with some strong chemical to remove any traces of blood that came from a very violent murder.

Hannah’s clothes worn on that night (skirt and top) are not even listed as official piece of evidence, apparently never tested and seem to have disappeared, according to defense lawyers. Hannah’s alleged underwear was found but never tested for DNA. David’s clothes in contrast was fully tested even though he was found naked apart from one sock. Hannah’s clothes not tested even though on her body when it was found, clothes allegedly pulled around by an alleged violent rapist and which more than anything else should have DNA of the perpetrator (s) on it.

So did David's clothes that were tested have the Burmese men's DNA all over them? Oh sorry I forgot that Hannah and David were alleged to have been making out when they were attacked. What was the DNA result of David's clothes then?

Very good question, I'm sure the Police forensic dept has the answer somewhere once they get to put a date on it and get it signed

Even the biggest numbskull can see that when the evidence does not fit the story told by the police it mysteriously goes missing or its used up or even never mentioned again.

What we are seeing is the blatant corruption and the "do as we like" police force going about their business as they probably have done for decades. They are most likely behaving in exactly the same way as they always do when they are fitting someone up,, the only difference here is that the case has significant profile across the World and people are looking in disbelief at what these despicable people are doing believing themselves to be untouchable.

Well, one thing is for sure, as public awareness rises so does the pressure to stop this behaviour. Whatever happens in the trial I hope that the pressure remains and forces behaviour change from the Police and officials,,,

Optimistic I know but I have to think something good will come of this charade.

[AGareth2]

2 lust filled midgets creeping up on David and Hannah and attacking them from behind with the hoe.

From the evidence we have been party to this story is a lie.