Immigration Promenada One Stop Service 2016-2017

[hml367]

3 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

A foreigner must be able to present his passport upon demand by police or other authorities.  Granted, the chances of this becoming a serious issue is low but technically it is a violation of Thai law, and so a government entity such as Immigration should not have a policy that causes one to be breaking the law. 

 

What's more, there are many day-to-day things that require a foreigner to show his/her passport such as conducting any sort of banking, renting a vehicle, paying for any sort of lodging, public transportation (airline, railroad, bus), etc.

 

I realize that the previous poster was only without his passport for a half a day.  Nonetheless, he was forced to break Thai law during that time, and at the very least could have been inconvenienced, or at most, arrested and forced to document that Thai Immigration was holding his passport.  

My question is what SPECIFIC law?  There is a lot of hearsay and "he/she said", but I have never seen anyone give reference to a specific law.  There have even been quotes from Immigration officials saying that copies are sufficient to be carried on your person. 

 

If you know the specific law that can be referenced, I am sure it would be good news to many members of ThaiVisa from the many, many posts in the past.  Can give any reference to the specific law?

[Kohsamida]

24 minutes ago, hml367 said:

My question is what SPECIFIC law?  There is a lot of hearsay and "he/she said", but I have never seen anyone give reference to a specific law.  There have even been quotes from Immigration officials saying that copies are sufficient to be carried on your person. 

 

If you know the specific law that can be referenced, I am sure it would be good news to many members of ThaiVisa from the many, many posts in the past.  Can give any reference to the specific law?

I can't quote the exact statute but if it's important for you to know, Google for it using Chrome Translate since it will surely be written in Thai legalese.

 

If you are a seasoned traveller, it's common knowledge in just about any country in the world that being able to present your passport on demand to authorities is a given, and Thailand is certainly no exception.

 

And no, a copy is NOT sufficient in many situations.  I have tried to use the copy I keep in my wallet at the bank, checking in on an Air Asia flight, checking into a hotel, and when picking up a package at Thai Post, and all refused the copy.

 

And I very much doubt that if a police officer will be any more accommodating if he asks for your passport and you hand him a xeroxed copy instead.  I mean, if you got pulled over by a cop back home and offered a xeroxed copy of your driver's license how do you think things would go?

Edited June 23, 2018 by Kohsamida

[hml367]

This is the link to the 1st result when I Googled, "carry passport in Thailand": https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/12/thailand-police-foreigners-not-required-to-carry-passports-at-all-times/#eMJxfuB534y87PkL.97

[Kohsamida]

50 minutes ago, hml367 said:

This is the link to the 1st result when I Googled, "carry passport in Thailand": https://asiancorrespondent.com/2014/12/thailand-police-foreigners-not-required-to-carry-passports-at-all-times/#eMJxfuB534y87PkL.97

That article is about a particular police department's stance on enforcing the existing law pertaining to passports, not whether or not the law exists.  By inference the article indicates that the law does indeed exist.

 

What's more, in light of the recent crackdown on visa violations and overstays, here is another police statement that emphatically states that the law does exists, and ironically it is from the Immigration police:

 

Thaivisa.com, a popular portal for expats and travellers, put the question directly to Pol Col Thanasak Vongluekiat, superintendent of the Prachuap Khiri Khan and Phetchaburi Immigration office in Hua Hin.

 

He said that by law, all tourists and expats nationwide are required to carry their original passports with them at all times. There is no exception. Failure to carry your original passport may result in a 2,000-baht fine. A photocopy, stamped or not, or a driver's licence is not an acceptable substitute.

 

"The reason behind this is that Immigration needs to keep track of overstayers and foreign criminals who may be staying illegally in the country," Thaivisa quoted Pol Col Thanasak as saying.

 

(https://www.bangkokpost.com/print/436133/

 

Once again, what the law states, and how it is actually interpreted by a police officer stopping you are going to be two entirely different things here in Thailand. 

 

The bottom line is that failure to show your original passport is a violation of Thai law, according to the Immigration Police, and yet the Immigration Department in Chiang Mai is forcing you to violate this law by their policy.  Maybe not a big deal for a few hours in the case of the previous poster, but for the "Chinese Grandmother" who is waiting now for 7 days and counting, that is a big deal indeed!

Edited June 23, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Lizard2010]

Wow that was a lot of reading 4 pages

 

Also the passport from an individual belong the Country of the person

So in theory it is against the law for a passport to kept from that person for too long

A receipt would need to be given

Than the Embassy or consulate would be able to ask questions

This might be pedantic but we have to put up with these things from Chiang Mai Immigration

The new boss needs to take notice

The last boss at immigration made some good changes from his predecessor

Now we are going backwards

Maybe Bangkok Immigration officers need to visit town again

They interviewed quite a few people

They got real answers not scripted ones

What is it going to be like in 3 months time

When hopefully immigration moves back to the new offices

Just my two cents worth

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Lizard2010

[Greenside]

A 2000 baht fine is significantly cheaper than replacing a UK passport.  I've never been asked to produce one except in obvious situations like checking in for a flight or doing some bank business and a decent colour copy in the car sufficed on the only occasion that I needed it.

 

I no no-one who carries their original at all times, but then there is comfort in knowing it's quickly available (and safe) filed away at home.

[Kohsamida]

30 minutes ago, Lizard2010 said:

Wow that was a lot of reading 4 pages

 

Also the passport from an individual belong the Country of the person

So in theory it is against the law for a passport to kept from that person for too long

A receipt would need to be given

Than the Embassy or consulate would be able to ask questions

This might be pedantic but we have to put up with these things from Chiang Mai Immigration

The new boss needs to take notice

The last boss at immigration made some good changes from his predecessor

Now we are going backwards

Maybe Bangkok Immigration officers need to visit town again

They interviewed quite a few people

They got real answers not scripted ones

What is it going to be like in 3 months time

When hopefully immigration moves back to the new offices

Just my two cents worth

 

 

 

One can hope for a better situation to develop at Chiang Mai Imm.  All it takes is one forward thinking person to be in charge of things.  I remember the situation at Department of Motor Vehicles in my state in the US.  It was about as bad as it could be but then a new commissioner came in and decided the situation was simply unacceptable, and had what it takes to make things better.

 

The result was drastic changes in how things were conducted with an eye towards efficiency and being "customer friendly"  It was amazing!  No more long lines, no more ambiguous regulations or procedures, a strong online presence, and most importantly, friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful personnel accessible not only in the offices but by phone as well.

 

The same is possible here.  I mean, there ARE some pretty decent people working at Imm right now.  They just need someone in charge locally who's got the leadership skills and determination to make things right.  And considering Imm employees are dealing with people who are English-speaking, those employees dealing directly with the public should be fluent in English.  That alone would eliminate a lot of headaches.

 

...And that's my 2 cents worth ?

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Kohsamida

[hml367]

2 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

That article is about a particular police department's stance on enforcing the existing law pertaining to passports, not whether or not the law exists.  By inference the article indicates that the law does indeed exist.

 

What's more, in light of the recent crackdown on visa violations and overstays, here is another police statement that emphatically states that the law does exists, and ironically it is from the Immigration police:

 

Thaivisa.com, a popular portal for expats and travellers, put the question directly to Pol Col Thanasak Vongluekiat, superintendent of the Prachuap Khiri Khan and Phetchaburi Immigration office in Hua Hin.

 

He said that by law, all tourists and expats nationwide are required to carry their original passports with them at all times. There is no exception. Failure to carry your original passport may result in a 2,000-baht fine. A photocopy, stamped or not, or a driver's licence is not an acceptable substitute.

 

"The reason behind this is that Immigration needs to keep track of overstayers and foreign criminals who may be staying illegally in the country," Thaivisa quoted Pol Col Thanasak as saying.

 

(https://www.bangkokpost.com/print/436133/

 

Once again, what the law states, and how it is actually interpreted by a police officer stopping you are going to be two entirely different things here in Thailand. 

 

The bottom line is that failure to show your original passport is a violation of Thai law, according to the Immigration Police, and yet the Immigration Department in Chiang Mai is forcing you to violate this law by their policy.  Maybe not a big deal for a few hours in the case of the previous poster, but for the "Chinese Grandmother" who is waiting now for 7 days and counting, that is a big deal indeed!

As I said before ,I am interested in the specific law.  Apparently you do not have a reference to the specific law, so you don't need to add to the pages responding to me unless you can give reference to the specific law. 

 

I have read for many years of whether it is "legal" or "illegal", and like I said before, I have never seen any reference to the specific law.  

 

I am not interested in what might or might not be.  I am interested in the actual law.  You posted in bold letters, "the law does exists"....  That law is what I would be interested in seeing.

 

Thank you for your answers.

Edited June 23, 2018 by hml367

[Kohsamida]

38 minutes ago, hml367 said:

As I said before ,I am interested in the specific law.  Apparently you do not have a reference to the specific law, so you don't need to add to the pages responding to me unless you can give reference to the specific law. 

 

I have read for many years of whether it is "legal" or "illegal", and like I said before, I have never seen any reference to the specific law.  

 

I am not interested in what might or might not be.  I am interested in the actual law.  You posted in bold letters, "the law does exists"....  That law is what I would be interested in seeing.

 

Thank you for your answers.

Look, I don't have the time or inclination to look up the particular statute, section and subsection but if you do, go for it.  You'll want to search the Immigration Act, B.E. 2522. 

 

I think it should suffice that an Immigration police official has been quoted as saying that the law not only exists but is enforceable, and makes that very clear with details, and in no uncertain terms in the article I linked.  Did you even bother to read the article?  It sounds like you did not.

 

Furthermore, the same sort of laws exist in most other countries and are well known to any seasoned traveler so I don't see why you are having such a hard time grasping this.  That's all I have to say on the subject.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Kohsamida

[jonesthepost]

Is that a promise

[Kohsamida]

4 hours ago, Greenside said:

A 2000 baht fine is significantly cheaper than replacing a UK passport.  I've never been asked to produce one except in obvious situations like checking in for a flight or doing some bank business and a decent colour copy in the car sufficed on the only occasion that I needed it.

 

I no no-one who carries their original at all times, but then there is comfort in knowing it's quickly available (and safe) filed away at home.

I agree.  I know nobody including myself that carries one day-to-day.  I'm just saying that the law does exist and is enforceable.  There are plenty of laws, both here and abroad, that are unreasonable and thus rarely enforced, but as they say, "the law is the law".

 

My only point in this whole discussion was that it seems grossly improper for Promenada Immigration to have a policy that puts an applicant in a position of violating Thai law, and especially since this is an Immigration law.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Greenside]

23 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

I'm just saying that the law does exist and is enforceable.

Off topic somewhat, but isn't that just the problem here and in many other less than democratic countries?  Pass a load of poorly drafted (or deliberately vague) laws that are fundamentally unenforceable and ignore them completely until expedient, at which time apply them selectively as convenient or most profitable.  Couple that with almost unlimited discretion at almost every governmental and bureaucratic level and not only is corruption given full rein, but the development of the country is enormously hampered in countless ways.

[hml367]

 

If you read this the official references carrying some type of identification.  Of course it would have to be id accepted by Thai officials.  

 

MY point is I have never seen reference to a Thai Law that  aliens must carry their passport.  You must have identification and be able to produce the passport, if asked, within a reasonable amount of time.  I don't think Immigration holding a passport makes the passport holder in violation of Thai law.  However, as I have said, I would like to see any law regarding this.

 

I do carry my passport at all times.  That is not the discussion.... the discussion is if there is a specific law requiring aliens to carry their passport.

Edited June 23, 2018 by hml367

[jeffandgop]

To have or not to have. The law, the statute, the regulation, the manner of enforcement.  Enuf already!  This bickering back and forth after posting original info and responses adds little to the community. Keep it civil. Keep it brief. Then move on. 

My 2 satang worth. 

[opalred]

kohsamida do you were blinkers/the site is 144 pages long because of trolling

get a life 

i said i went at 8/30 got a number to return at 3pm 

never said gave my passport in  ?

if they are holding a passport there is a problem 

i have been here 14yrs and never asked to show passport in that time

and i believe have traveled near every place in los?

[Kohsamida]

18 minutes ago, opalred said:

kohsamida do you were blinkers/the site is 144 pages long because of trolling

get a life 

i said i went at 8/30 got a number to return at 3pm 

never said gave my passport in  ?

if they are holding a passport there is a problem 

i have been here 14yrs and never asked to show passport in that time

and i believe have traveled near every place in los?

Well, first of all, you didn't make it clear in your post that Imm did not hold your passport.  The way it reads, it sounded like they did.  Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

However, they did indeed hold the "Chinese Grandmother's" passport and continue to do so now for 7 days.  So, by your own admission here, "there  is a problem".

 

Regarding passport law, I agree that the chances of getting in trouble for not having your passport on you if stopped by authorities is low.  That was not my point. 

 

My point was simply that the law exists.  It is an Immigration law, and yet the Immigration department's policy causes a person to be in violation of the law when they hold a passport for an inordinate amount of time. 

 

What's more, being without your passport for 7 days could be a real problem if you needed to conduct banking business or had to travel.  I simply think it's unacceptable for Imm to put people in that situation.

 

As for trolling posts, yes I agree, lots of them,  but there are still plenty of genuine concerns and problems described as well.  If it was simply trolling content the thread would have died out many pages ago.

[NancyL]

1 hour ago, opalred said:

kohsamida do you were blinkers/the site is 144 pages long because of trolling

get a life 

i said i went at 8/30 got a number to return at 3pm 

never said gave my passport in  ?

if they are holding a passport there is a problem 

i have been here 14yrs and never asked to show passport in that time

and i believe have traveled near every place in los?

opalred, you haven't been paying attention.  Kohsamida and the "Chinese grandmother" are doing visa conversions; you've been doing retirement extensions or marriage extensions for 14 years and I suspect marriage extensions  because right now the reports are that people seeking retirement extensions are in the same queue with students competing for a limited number of openings.  I doubt anyone applying for a retirement extension is able to arrive at 8:30 am in the past couple weeks and be able to get a queue ticket.  

 

And if you've lived here 14 years and never been asked to show a passport, then you must have a Thai person handling all your banking,  arranging your household utilities, buying a SIM for your phone, making airline reservations or checking into a hotel with you, having made the reservation in their name.  These are just a few of the situations where people are asked to show a passport.  

[Dante99]

47 minutes ago, NancyL said:

And if you've lived here 14 years and never been asked to show a passport, then you must have a Thai person handling all your banking,  arranging your household utilities, buying a SIM for your phone, making airline reservations or checking into a hotel with you, having made the reservation in their name.  These are just a few of the situations where people are asked to show a passport.  

I do all that with a Thai driver's license.

[Dante99]

This thread is littered with posts by a guy who sware that he would never post on CMTV again several weeks ago.  Was he trolling?

[Kohsamida]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

And if you've lived here 14 years and never been asked to show a passport...

He was referring only to having to show it to police I think.

[NancyL]

11 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

I do all that with a Thai driver's license.

You're not able to open a bank account or buy a SIM card with a TDL, nor can you fly internationally.  In the other situations I mentioned, they'll accept a TDL begrudgingly.  I suspect that Kohsamida and the Chinese grandmother don't have a TDL yet, either, being newcomers seeking a visa conversion.  

[NancyL]

1 minute ago, Kohsamida said:

He was referring only to having to show it to police I think.

Well, yes, it's very likely that someone can be here 14 years and keep their nose clean without any involvement with law enforcement, aside from renewing their TDL every five years.  But, they'd have to be living a hermit's life never to need to show their passport to someone.  

[Kohsamida]

3 minutes ago, NancyL said:

... I suspect that Kohsamida and the Chinese grandmother don't have a TDL yet, either, being newcomers seeking a visa conversion.  

That's going to be my next "adventure" in Thai Bureaucracy 101; getting a driver's license and registering a motorcycle.  That should be interesting.

[Thailand]

8 hours ago, Kohsamida said:

That's going to be my next "adventure" in Thai Bureaucracy 101; getting a driver's license and registering a motorcycle.  That should be interesting.

Probably the best government department around.

Dealing with far more people than immigration in a generally courteous and efficient manner. 

 

And Nancy, you are correct, the Chinese granny does not have a TDL, her only ID is still with immigration, I think!.

[opalred]

 a bit of common sense here

all country's in world you show passport to 

immigration/ airlines /hotel booking 

i was referring to/ as anyone with a brain would understand

in 14yrs driving/walking and travelling in los 

never asked for passport and pulled up 100s times at check points

asked for drivers licence sometimes / is normal in all country's when driving 

[rumak]

there are other places with immig issues......

not everywhere....but getting more difficult in many places

www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1029326-samui-immigration-office-current-requirements/?page=8

[Kohsamida]

13 hours ago, Dante99 said:

This thread is littered with posts by a guy who sware that he would never post on CMTV again several weeks ago.  Was he trolling?

Do you ever have anything nice to say to people, or ever post anything that’s useful and advances a thread, or are you just one of those people who has to tear others down to feel good about themselves?

 

You seem to follow me to all threads I participate in only to make disparaging personal comments that usually have nothing whatsoever to do with the thread.  To me, that is the definition of “trolling”.

 

Hiding  behind the anonymity of a forum to spew hate is cowardly and unhealthy.  I hope you seek help.  I think you truly need it.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Kohsamida

[HullyGully]

My wife and I both did our 90 day reporting on line last week

 

Also, a friend  had his reported approved

 

All approved within 2 days

 

I used Windows Explore 11

Edited June 24, 2018 by HullyGully

[NancyL]

On 6/23/2018 at 8:16 AM, opalred said:

i don't understand the fuss/and nancys self promoting 

went for yr retirement the other day

arrive 8 /30  got number and told to come back 3 pm

went home and returned and was out with passport and stamp 3/45pm

if you go there with a good attitude and not  the nose in air 

you might get a good service with a smile  

 

18 hours ago, opalred said:

kohsamida do you were blinkers/the site is 144 pages long because of trolling

get a life 

i said i went at 8/30 got a number to return at 3pm 

never said gave my passport in  ?

if they are holding a passport there is a problem 

i have been here 14yrs and never asked to show passport in that time

and i believe have traveled near every place in los?

5 hours ago, opalred said:

 a bit of common sense here

all country's in world you show passport to 

immigration/ airlines /hotel booking 

i was referring to/ as anyone with a brain would understand

in 14yrs driving/walking and travelling in los 

never asked for passport and pulled up 100s times at check points

asked for drivers licence sometimes / is normal in all country's when driving 

Absolutely clueless. Deriding Kohsamida without realizing he's comparing apples and oranges and then admitting, well yes, he does use his passport from time to time when he travels.  He'd probably be pretty upset if a Thai gov't official held onto his for a week.

 

And, I'd like to know, exactly how are my posts on this thread "self-promoting"?  (this response should be interesting)

[Kohsamida]

27 minutes ago, NancyL said:

...And, I'd like to know, exactly how are my posts on this thread "self-promoting"?  (this response should be interesting)

I was kind of curious about that "self promoting" comment too, and the poster's angry replies to me.  Some people on here seem to go into meltdown mode about anything and everything.  This forum would be a much more productive and friendly space if they'd just stop freaking out about every little thing.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Kohsamida