Cross-Cultural Relationships

[villagefarang]

How does one shed a rational light on something so personal and often discussed in such emotionally charged language?

In an ideal world it shouldn’t matter what others think. People being what they are, however, tend to comment shamelessly and impose their views on others. Ranging from idle gossip to hateful prejudice, it is not always possible to avoid or ignore. From farangs, one often hears the proverbial questions about why young Thai women choose old, fat, balding Western men. From Thais it is more apt to be about why farang men like such dark, unattractive, unsophisticated, low class women. As with most things it all depends on ones perspective which is affected by personal bias and cultural reference.

Some label Thai women, gold-diggers who are only out for the money. We have all heard the horror stories of men who lost everything in a naive bid to buy love. On the other extreme, are those who have some fanciful notion that Asian women are somehow uniquely feminine, domestic and docile. Good luck with that one. There are a goodly number of very successful relationships that dwell in the middle ground. Founded on love, respect, understanding and shared interests, a good relationship is only made richer by differences where bad ones are only made worse.

I understand that no matter what one says, people always have a long, well prepared dissertation about how their situation is different and unique. The acknowledged uniqueness of each relationship is, however, framed by cultural stereotypes and constraints. There is a history and often scars, that individuals bring with them. In addition, Farang-Thai relationships will often evolve differently based on location. His country or hers, big city or village, it all makes a difference. Appearances are all important in how you are viewed and treated by others. The perceived simplicity of a different culture, often belies the complex undercurrents lurking below the surface, when you enter a cross-cultural relationship.

I don’t imagine there are many cultures, where we admire women who choose the poorest or least productive men available. Yet when they are pragmatic and look for someone who can provide for them and their extended family, which is the norm in Thailand, they are labeled as only out for the money. It hardly seems fair to hold such double standards or to think it is all directed toward fleecing the foreigner.

After a failed relationship and perhaps a child or two to care for, some women take to prostitution. That is a very broad and all inclusive term that includes a multitude of subgroups that I will not go into at this time. Sitting on the floor in a hovel, with a crying child, the realities of the profession are overshadowed by the image of some neighbor wearing nice clothes and living in a big house with no financial worries.

Going back to the Vietnam era, there is a long standing stereotype of Isaan women and Western men, as the US military was based in that area. Fair or not it has become a firmly entrenched cultural stereotype. I have even known farangs who would not consider dating or marrying Isaan women simply because they didn’t want to be tarred with that label. They saw it as detrimental to their career or social standing with clients and friends. That was completely irrespective of the girl’s actual socioeconomic status. Interestingly one of the pluses of choosing some Western men, is their naiveté in regard to Thai culture, prejudices and values. Also, their often loudly declared lack of interest in what other people think, especially the locals.

In general men seem rather clueless about women so it is no big surprise that they can get it so very wrong in a potentially mine filled, cross-cultural relationship. They often think one grand gesture will suffice to prove their love for all time. Not realizing they are simply setting a precedent by which all future gestures will be ranked. It is never a one time item checked off a list as, “completed”. Women have a different perspective from men on this. Throughout a relationship they thrive on the knowledge that they are desirable, appreciated and sought after by their man. That does not require grand gestures but rather regular or frequent ones. Small thoughtful gifts, acts or even comments are often all that is needed to reassure the heart.

Rural Thai families are often, economical at best, in their display of affection for loved ones. Romantic love, as portrayed in the movies, is not the norm in village life. Living as they do, in such close quarters, affection or romance is often limited, quiet and brief, in an attempt to keep it hidden from prying eyes. As with my own wife, hugs and kisses, were not something she experienced from her own parents. Thankfully, physical warmth and affection is something that she has grown to value and now gives freely, to friends and family. Unfortunately some women cling to what they have known and find it difficult to find that kinder gentler person that lives within.

While some Western men are able to get away with a blatant disregard for the local culture, they somehow don’t draw a correlation to how they are treated in return by the locals. Though I prefer to understand things in depth, I guess I can see the appeal of not knowing and not having to deal with that knowledge. Brings to mind the notion of, ignorance is bliss. Knowing and understanding what the locals are all about does not mean one has to be, just like them. As they say, knowledge is power. Maybe not the power to change things, but the power to navigate the waters more smoothly and efficiently.

Clearly there is no simple formula for a successful cross-cultural relationship, and no one answer for the whys and hows of choosing a partner wisely. It may be fatalistic but on some level I think we deserve what we get in life and typically would do the same things and make the same choices again and again regardless of where we are. There are always signs but seldom the ability to read them, apparently. In the end it come down to the choices we make and how well we deal with what follows, in my opinion.

[harrry]

People are people wherever..just treat them as such and less problems.

[villagefarang]

I have never found people to be that simple but that is certainly one way to look at it.

[gerry123]

here endeth chapter one

[tonray]

All relationships start with admiration that hopefully grows into respect. Even in mono-cultural relationships, differences in background and economic status require recognition and you MUST accept what and who that person is rather than who you want them to be. Cross cultural relationships, to be successful, require one or both parties to learn about the cultural framework that their mate operates under, what drives their core decisions. Once you do that, you can find a common ground, or one person can sublimate themselves to the other's framework.

It's only a little different than in the west, dating someone from the west coast from an affluent family is going to be troublesome if you are from the Northeast from middle class roots. Same here...with the addition of values, religion, and most importantly expectations of your mate. Once you find out what he/she wants in life, you can choose to attempt to deliver or walk away.

Edited January 17, 2016 by tonray

[villagefarang]

here endeth chapter one

This is more like chapter 2 for 2016.

[MatteoBassini]

In my opinion, the problem is the language. A relationship between two people needs communication and understanding each other. If you can't speak proper Thai and she can't speak proper English, do you think both parties are able to portray their exact thoughts and opinions in a serious discussion/argument? I doubt it.

If I wasn't fluent in Thai, my relationship with my girlfriend wouldn't have lasted very long. It's not because we love each other for the wrong reasons, but because in a fight, we're able to speak up and express ourselves exactly how we want to. If we were both speaking a language we weren't fluent in, we wouldn't be able to express ourselves, we wouldn't understand each other, and so we'll just say "If we can't understand each other, don't know what's wrong, then how can this relationship go on?".

It's not only with your partner, but the partner's family. My girlfriend's family speaks absolutely no English at all, if I was a farang who couldn't speak any Thai, I know my time with them wouldn't have lasted at all. The family was able to see and understand what kind of man the daughter is dating, and they quickly, welcomed me as one of their own, they started calling me their son within two months. And before you say it's because of my money, they're a hi-so affluent Thai-chinese family, I come from a family of poor farmers and soldiers, so no, it's not because of that.

Would my situation been different if I wasn't able to speak Thai. I strongly believe so. Perhaps the family wouldn't even have welcomed a farang in the first place, as these kinds of families are known for only wanting someone within their caste, maybe the Thai soap operas helped me because just like the actors, I'm a lukklueng .

But like you said, everyone's situation is different (right?).

[Kaalle]

Find a girl your age and one that has an open mind and some appreciation for the fact that you come from a different culture and that there is such a term called "meeting in the middle". There seems to be this perception that all Thais are dead set in their ways but that's not necessarily true.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[tonray]

Find a girl your age and one that has an open mind and some appreciation for the fact that you come from a different culture and that there is such a term called "meeting in the middle". There seems to be this perception that all Thais are dead set in their ways but that's not necessarily true.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

A girl my age...come on now...let's be serious !

[WhamBam]

Find a girl your age and one that has an open mind and some appreciation for the fact that you come from a different culture and that there is such a term called "meeting in the middle". There seems to be this perception that all Thais are dead set in their ways but that's not necessarily true.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

A woman my age is likely to be wrinkly with sagging breasts and maybe a few teeth missing. Why on earth would I want one of those? I might as well be back in my home country, or doing without.

A woman over 35 definitely - for me. Much better

And before you ask, No, I am not perfect, but I'm not considered too bad either

[villagefarang]

In my opinion, the problem is the language. A relationship between two people needs communication and understanding each other. If you can't speak proper Thai and she can't speak proper English, do you think both parties are able to portray their exact thoughts and opinions in a serious discussion/argument? I doubt it.

If I wasn't fluent in Thai, my relationship with my girlfriend wouldn't have lasted very long. It's not because we love each other for the wrong reasons, but because in a fight, we're able to speak up and express ourselves exactly how we want to. If we were both speaking a language we weren't fluent in, we wouldn't be able to express ourselves, we wouldn't understand each other, and so we'll just say "If we can't understand each other, don't know what's wrong, then how can this relationship go on?".

It's not only with your partner, but the partner's family. My girlfriend's family speaks absolutely no English at all, if I was a farang who couldn't speak any Thai, I know my time with them wouldn't have lasted at all. The family was able to see and understand what kind of man the daughter is dating, and they quickly, welcomed me as one of their own, they started calling me their son within two months. And before you say it's because of my money, they're a hi-so affluent Thai-chinese family, I come from a family of poor farmers and soldiers, so no, it's not because of that.

Would my situation been different if I wasn't able to speak Thai. I strongly believe so. Perhaps the family wouldn't even have welcomed a farang in the first place, as these kinds of families are known for only wanting someone within their caste, maybe the Thai soap operas helped me because just like the actors, I'm a lukklueng .

But like you said, everyone's situation is different (right?).

I am in total agreement on the language issue and its effect on communication but I don’t see anyone being able to change the minds of those don’t or won’t speak Thai.

[harrry]

But changing their minds is not our job....

I would though doubt a full relationship could be had without at least some understanding of the culture and language of the person with whom you are sharing you life.

That does not mean that you have to be fluent from the start or indeed ever but the willingness will enable the relationship to grow.

Edited January 17, 2016 by harrry

[kannot]

My "problem" with all people is their views based on a "belief" only with no evidence to back it up this is when real conflict starts.

[CharlieH]

I always likened it to playing the rules of different games.

In the west we are taught to play chess, with all the rules and moves and expectancies etc. In Asia they play checkers, different game, different approach and different rules.

You can never play checkers whilst applying the rules of chess, it just gets "messy" and totally confusing. A huge learning curve whilst you learn each others "moves" in a given situation.

Not saying either one is right nor wrong, just different to what you know and come to expect.

[villagefarang]

I always likened it to playing the rules of different games.

In the west we are taught to play chess, with all the rules and moves and expectancies etc. In Asia they play checkers, different game, different approach and different rules.

You can never play checkers whilst applying the rules of chess, it just gets "messy" and totally confusing. A huge learning curve whilst you learn each others "moves" in a given situation.

Not saying either one is right nor wrong, just different to what you know and come to expect.

I do something similar but use a sports analogy. The rules for soccer or American football are different and it doesn’t do much good to argue that we play the game differently if you are playing the other guy’s game, not yours. You play by the rules of the game you are playing and by stepping onto the field you are committed and it is too late to argue about what the rules are or should be.

Edited January 17, 2016 by villagefarang

[MaeJoMTB]

In my opinion, the problem is the language. A relationship between two people needs communication and understanding each other. If you can't speak proper Thai and she can't speak proper English, do you think both parties are able to portray their exact thoughts and opinions in a serious discussion/argument? I doubt it.

And there was me thinking a relationship was one person having money, and the other person wanting some of it.

[thaiduncankk]

I always likened it to playing the rules of different games.

In the west we are taught to play chess, with all the rules and moves and expectancies etc. In Asia they play checkers, different game, different approach and different rules.

You can never play checkers whilst applying the rules of chess, it just gets "messy" and totally confusing. A huge learning curve whilst you learn each others "moves" in a given situation.

Not saying either one is right nor wrong, just different to what you know and come to expect.

I do something similar but use a sports analogy. The rules for soccer or American football are different and it doesnt do much good to argue that we play the game differently if you are playing the other guys game, not yours. You play by the rules of the game you are playing and by stepping onto the field you are committed and it is too late to argue about what the rules are or should be.

I think you will find, in these sporting circles, a very, very small minority actually change codes during their career.

Why ? Because they stick with what they know about, and what they were brought up on, because it will offer them a more normal life.

Should one change codes, you can guarantee 100% it will be motivated by just one thing...........Money.

[Gecko123]

My wife and I clicked in the humor department. Outside of that, there's not a whole lot there.

Oh! we also connected in the parenting department, but that's only because she agrees with me on just about everything.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Gecko123

[NeverSure]

Stay out of serious relationships with women and keep your money in your pocket. All of the above is then sorted.

Cheers.

[seajae]

have to agree with a lot of this, I do not speak thai, not from lack of trying but due to other reasons my memory retention is not good so no matter how hard I study and learn with others I am unable to retain most of what I learnt. Thing is, it doesnt lessen my relationship with my wife or her family and friends, in fact I get on great with them all, I actually think it is each individuals attitude to those around them that really matters. I am a very open & honest person and I state my mind(especially in here), I find that everyone wants to be around us when we go to the many work/associate parties/nights out/ weekends away etc. What is the biggest bond for us(apart for our love for each other) is our openness and honesty with each other, we also have many similar likes and dislikes, we are both lay back and enjoy the simple things, the biggest hurdle was basically our different cultures but we both worked on that and met each other in the middle whenever possible. Life is what you make it, when you are with the right person different cultures dont hinder you greatly as it is your mutual love/respect for each other that makes all the difference. If a couple cannot be themselves and be happy doing it then they have a problem, they are aware of each others culture before hand, if they cannot adjust to each other then maybe they arent being honest about what they really feel or want, you need to marry someone for all the right reasons and they need to grow stronger the longer you are together, this is the biggest part of being together, anything else is never going to work.

[evadgib]

The language thing is easy; If she lets rip in her native khymer I know there's a snake in the garden

Edited January 17, 2016 by evadgib

[tolsti]

Blog post.

[mesquite]

When I first got here, I had two relationships where the girls were 19-21 and I was in my fifties. I was hoping for love, but later I realized neither one loved me. They were just using me for sex.

[villagefarang]

Blog post.

I make no effort to conceal the fact that I have a blog, I just don’t post links to it. I figure there is room for different kinds of topics and writing styles on ThaiVisa and I enjoy starting a conversation about relevant topics and waiting to see how people respond.

[big carl]

In my opinion, the problem is the language. A relationship between two people needs communication and understanding each other. If you can't speak proper Thai and she can't speak proper English, do you think both parties are able to portray their exact thoughts and opinions in a serious discussion/argument? I doubt it.

If I wasn't fluent in Thai, my relationship with my girlfriend wouldn't have lasted very long. It's not because we love each other for the wrong reasons, but because in a fight, we're able to speak up and express ourselves exactly how we want to. If we were both speaking a language we weren't fluent in, we wouldn't be able to express ourselves, we wouldn't understand each other, and so we'll just say "If we can't understand each other, don't know what's wrong, then how can this relationship go on?".

It's not only with your partner, but the partner's family. My girlfriend's family speaks absolutely no English at all, if I was a farang who couldn't speak any Thai, I know my time with them wouldn't have lasted at all. The family was able to see and understand what kind of man the daughter is dating, and they quickly, welcomed me as one of their own, they started calling me their son within two months. And before you say it's because of my money, they're a hi-so affluent Thai-chinese family, I come from a family of poor farmers and soldiers, so no, it's not because of that.

Would my situation been different if I wasn't able to speak Thai. I strongly believe so. Perhaps the family wouldn't even have welcomed a farang in the first place, as these kinds of families are known for only wanting someone within their caste, maybe the Thai soap operas helped me because just like the actors, I'm a lukklueng .

But like you said, everyone's situation is different (right?).

I am in total agreement on the language issue and its effect on communication but I don’t see anyone being able to change the minds of those don’t or won’t speak Thai.

Pretty hard to change my mind as we have been happily together for 9 years. Respect and willingness to accept the others ways make a world of difference. We don't have to have long meaningful emotion filled talks to honestly care for the other. I could have left years ago and she would not have been surprised. It took me about 3 years to convince her I was the real deal and wasn't going to leave her. I interact with her kids and grand kids fine. Her daughter is getting better and better at English and the granddaughters are learning English. Not that I have a lot to do with them. But if I need a ride any where they are right there to take me.

Part of it is a willingness to drop my way of thinking. She just excepts my ways as weird but she did like a trip Back to America with me.

[flyDelight]

Find a girl your age and one that has an open mind and some appreciation for the fact that you come from a different culture and that there is such a term called "meeting in the middle". There seems to be this perception that all Thais are dead set in their ways but that's not necessarily true.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

A girl my age...come on now...let's be serious !

A 'girl' my age? I did'nt think so. I am 14 years older then my girlfriend her mother and this girl is the best that ever happened to me.

Not interested in old farts.

Edited January 17, 2016 by flyDelight

[villagefarang]

In my opinion, the problem is the language. A relationship between two people needs communication and understanding each other. If you can't speak proper Thai and she can't speak proper English, do you think both parties are able to portray their exact thoughts and opinions in a serious discussion/argument? I doubt it.

If I wasn't fluent in Thai, my relationship with my girlfriend wouldn't have lasted very long. It's not because we love each other for the wrong reasons, but because in a fight, we're able to speak up and express ourselves exactly how we want to. If we were both speaking a language we weren't fluent in, we wouldn't be able to express ourselves, we wouldn't understand each other, and so we'll just say "If we can't understand each other, don't know what's wrong, then how can this relationship go on?".

It's not only with your partner, but the partner's family. My girlfriend's family speaks absolutely no English at all, if I was a farang who couldn't speak any Thai, I know my time with them wouldn't have lasted at all. The family was able to see and understand what kind of man the daughter is dating, and they quickly, welcomed me as one of their own, they started calling me their son within two months. And before you say it's because of my money, they're a hi-so affluent Thai-chinese family, I come from a family of poor farmers and soldiers, so no, it's not because of that.

Would my situation been different if I wasn't able to speak Thai. I strongly believe so. Perhaps the family wouldn't even have welcomed a farang in the first place, as these kinds of families are known for only wanting someone within their caste, maybe the Thai soap operas helped me because just like the actors, I'm a lukklueng .

But like you said, everyone's situation is different (right?).

I am in total agreement on the language issue and its effect on communication but I don’t see anyone being able to change the minds of those don’t or won’t speak Thai.

Pretty hard to change my mind as we have been happily together for 9 years. Respect and willingness to accept the others ways make a world of difference. We don't have to have long meaningful emotion filled talks to honestly care for the other. I could have left years ago and she would not have been surprised. It took me about 3 years to convince her I was the real deal and wasn't going to leave her. I interact with her kids and grand kids fine. Her daughter is getting better and better at English and the granddaughters are learning English. Not that I have a lot to do with them. But if I need a ride any where they are right there to take me.

Part of it is a willingness to drop my way of thinking. She just excepts my ways as weird but she did like a trip Back to America with me.

I am not saying you are unhappy, I am suggesting you could be even happier. Perhaps it wouldn’t have taken 3 years to convince her you are the real deal if you could communicate better. Perhaps you wouldn’t be so dependent on others to take you places or do things for you. Perhaps yours ways wouldn't appear so weird in her eyes if you could explain things better.

I get that some people don’t like talking, for whatever reason, and prefer a quite life filled with activity and not discussion. As long as both people are happy with that arrangement I guess there is nothing to complain about.

[Minnie the Minx]

I always likened it to playing the rules of different games.

In the west we are taught to play chess, with all the rules and moves and expectancies etc. In Asia they play checkers, different game, different approach and different rules.

You can never play checkers whilst applying the rules of chess, it just gets "messy" and totally confusing. A huge learning curve whilst you learn each others "moves" in a given situation.

Not saying either one is right nor wrong, just different to what you know and come to expect.

And remember, that at the end of the day, both king and queen go back in the same box.

Nice post.

[thaiduncankk]

I always likened it to playing the rules of different games.

In the west we are taught to play chess, with all the rules and moves and expectancies etc. In Asia they play checkers, different game, different approach and different rules.

You can never play checkers whilst applying the rules of chess, it just gets "messy" and totally confusing. A huge learning curve whilst you learn each others "moves" in a given situation.

Not saying either one is right nor wrong, just different to what you know and come to expect.

And remember, that at the end of the day, both king and queen go back in the same box.

Unless one gets broken.

[Blackheart]

If people are happy I say let them be.

But it is disappointing to see guys who are with younger woman defend themselves against judgement,and then say themselves being with a western woman your own age is disgusting.

What if the western woman with the saggy breasts and wrinkles is your ideal partner and you overlook her for a more attractive model.

You can't defend your age gap by criticism of old Western woman,that's stooping to the same level as the people critical of your relationship, therefore it's hypocrisy.

Don't need to explain your relationships to anyone, if people don't like it banish them from your circle.