New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[Orac]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

[Jip99]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

A simple lack of respect for others and/or their opinions.

I agree - this should not become a pi55ing competition (but invariably does) and those who claim superior intellect (because of their views) are morons.

It would be a poorer world if we all had the same opinions but exchanging different opinions should be achieved without slagging others.

[dick dasterdly]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

I agree with everything you say, apart from the last sentence.

IMO its a bullying tactic - hoping to convince others with a different point of view, that the insulter knows more than those insulted.

Edit - this has (largely) been an interesting debate and I've learnt things of which I was previously unaware. Those reduced to name calling e.g. 'stupid, uneducated' etc. have spoilt the debate, and that's a shame.

Edited June 23, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[SgtRock]

This is a fantastic post Orac because it absolutely destroys this left - right wing vitriol that gets thrown about.

I am anti - EU so I am a right winger.

I am anti - TTIP based on what I have read so far, so that makes me a left winger.

The supposedly better educated know better and I simply cannot be ME.

Sorry, it only makes you a gullible fool for believing anything that Boris Johnson says.

A post like this Orac makes you the fool.

Whatever makes you think that I believe a word that Boris Johnson says ?

The man is a buffoon. There is not 1 current British Politician that I would P!ss on if they were on fire.

Fair enough, maybe your more a Nigel man and just picked the wrong XTC song for your nickname.

The point of the matter is that the claim that the EU is going to take away the NHS belongs in the same dustbin as your claim that the UK will be forced to join the euro in 2020 as just made up scare fantasies.

Nigel also comes under the umbrella of of British Politician as far as I am concerned.

Would you care to point out the following for me.

1. Where have I claimed that TTIP or the EU is going to take away the NHS ?

2. Where have I ever claimed that the UK is joining the euro in 2020 ?

I have stated on many occasions that the only 2 Countries who will NOT be in the euro after 2020 is the UK and a Scandinavian Country ( Sweden or Norway )

I have also stated in many posts that in 2025, if the EU stay's on its current track, the UK will have to join the euro or leave the EU.

It would appear that you have the same comprehension issues that affect a lot of remainers.

I will give you a link to an official EU document on TTIP.

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/march/tradoc_153266.pdf

Notice the use of the words '' Could '' and '' Should ''. However it is a nice starting point for further research.

[teatree]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

There has been a fair amount acrimony on both sides, that is true.

But I think it is very easy for the 'remainers' to should racist, xenophobe and Nazi at anyone and then sit back and act like they have won the argument.

From what I have seen, the 'Brexiteers' have been largely focusing on facts (often exaggerated admittedly) rather than calling people Commies or whatever.

[Orac]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

My apologies but i just realised i accused SgtRock of being a gullible fool in a prior post which was wrong of me.

[dick dasterdly]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

No - only (a few) 'remain' posters have persistently said that those with a different opinion are uneducated/stupid etc.

The 'brexit' posters have pretty much just put forward their view point.

[SgtRock]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

Sorry, try that one again.

Who branded who a fool in Post 1723 ? Not just a fool, but a gullible fool.

Sorry, it only makes you a gullible fool for believing anything that Boris Johnson says.

My response has been very clear on how I regard UK Politicians.

[teatree]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

I agree with everything you say, apart from the last sentence.

IMO its a bullying tactic - hoping to convince others with a different point of view, that the insulter knows more than those insulted.

Edit - this has (largely) been an interesting debate and I've learnt things of which I was previously unaware. Those reduced to name calling e.g. 'stupid, uneducated' etc. have spoilt the debate, and that's a shame.

I did very carefully say 'many people', and was specifically referring to those doing the name calling.

If someone is spewing out insults rather than facts and logic, what other conclusions can I take?

Using name calling rather than facts in an argument, from my experience, means the person has no real argument and are basing their position on feelings.

[dick dasterdly]

Incidentally, have Histavia's posts about voting dates been confirmed as lies yet?

What is wrong with people that come out with stuff like this?

But perhaps he just thought it was 'funny'.

[SgtRock]

Incidentally, have Histavia's posts about voting dates been confirmed as lies yet?

What is wrong with people that come out with stuff like this?

But perhaps he just thought it was 'funny'.

See my Post at 1715

[SgtRock]

Rather strange that these views are getting aired on referendum day

Lost in the frenzy of the UK’s Europe debate, European leaders are already calling for a humbler, less ambitious EU. Whatever the British result, “we must take a long, hard look on the future of the Union”, Donald Tusk, the leader of the European council, said on Monday. This is not just the view of a former Polish prime minister, eyeing a return to national politics. Hubert Védrine, a former French foreign minister and architect of European integration, now argues that the only way to save the European project is to “liberate it from pro-European dogma”. Fifty years of unidirectional movement towards EU integration could have run its course.

The Dutch finance minister, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, concludes that the EU’s failures have created fertile territory for Eurosceptics. “People are Eurosceptic for a pretty good reason,” he said. “We are not delivering on security, on the economic results.” Dijsselbloem’s answer is for the EU to complete unfinished projects, such as a European border guard or eurozone banking union, rather than “dreaming away” about the next big integrationist step, such as an EU finance minister. “Jumping on the next big adventure, creating a lot of uncertainty for people, would be the worst political reaction to where we are.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/future-eu-what-happens-if-britain-votes-to-stay

Edited June 23, 2016 by SgtRock

[dick dasterdly]

Rather strange that these views are getting aired on referendum day

Lost in the frenzy of the UK’s Europe debate, European leaders are already calling for a humbler, less ambitious EU. Whatever the British result, “we must take a long, hard look on the future of the Union”, Donald Tusk, the leader of the European council, said on Monday. This is not just the view of a former Polish prime minister, eyeing a return to national politics. Hubert Védrine, a former French foreign minister and architect of European integration, now argues that the only way to save the European project is to “liberate it from pro-European dogma”. Fifty years of unidirectional movement towards EU integration could have run its course.

The Dutch finance minister, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, concludes that the EU’s failures have created fertile territory for Eurosceptics. “People are Eurosceptic for a pretty good reason,” he said. “We are not delivering on security, on the economic results.” Dijsselbloem’s answer is for the EU to complete unfinished projects, such as a European border guard or eurozone banking union, rather than “dreaming away” about the next big integrationist step, such as an EU finance minister. “Jumping on the next big adventure, creating a lot of uncertainty for people, would be the worst political reaction to where we are.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/future-eu-what-happens-if-britain-votes-to-stay

And still they're missing the point (from my point of view), which is the mis-spent money and unaccountability.

[chiang mai]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

There has been a fair amount acrimony on both sides, that is true.

But I think it is very easy for the 'remainers' to should racist, xenophobe and Nazi at anyone and then sit back and act like they have won the argument.

From what I have seen, the 'Brexiteers' have been largely focusing on facts (often exaggerated admittedly) rather than calling people Commies or whatever.

The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank.

[Orac]

This is a fantastic post Orac because it absolutely destroys this left - right wing vitriol that gets thrown about.

I am anti - EU so I am a right winger.

I am anti - TTIP based on what I have read so far, so that makes me a left winger.

The supposedly better educated know better and I simply cannot be ME.

Sorry, it only makes you a gullible fool for believing anything that Boris Johnson says.

A post like this Orac makes you the fool.

Whatever makes you think that I believe a word that Boris Johnson says ?

The man is a buffoon. There is not 1 current British Politician that I would P!ss on if they were on fire.

Fair enough, maybe your more a Nigel man and just picked the wrong XTC song for your nickname.

The point of the matter is that the claim that the EU is going to take away the NHS belongs in the same dustbin as your claim that the UK will be forced to join the euro in 2020 as just made up scare fantasies.

Nigel also comes under the umbrella of of British Politician as far as I am concerned.

Would you care to point out the following for me.

1. Where have I claimed that TTIP or the EU is going to take away the NHS ?

2. Where have I ever claimed that the UK is joining the euro in 2020 ?

I have stated on many occasions that the only 2 Countries who will NOT be in the euro after 2020 is the UK and a Scandinavian Country ( Sweden or Norway )

I have also stated in many posts that in 2025, if the EU stay's on its current track, the UK will have to join the euro or leave the EU.

It would appear that you have the same comprehension issues that affect a lot of remainers.

I will give you a link to an official EU document on TTIP.

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/march/tradoc_153266.pdf

Notice the use of the words '' Could '' and '' Should ''. However it is a nice starting point for further research.

To answer your specific points:

1. I have not seen you claim that TTIP or the EU is going to take away the NHS or accused you specifically of stating that - this is a claim by Nothabury made earlier in this thread/conversation that has now been dropped out because of the length of the post.

2. You have constantly been warning about changes in 2020 that, over the course of several posts yesterday, you said was about the UK joining the euro and stated it was on the ECB website yet refused to provide a link to this vital piece of information. You have now moved on to claiming that this date is 2025 and yet again provide no link or proof. I will call you yet again on this - provide some link confirming under current treaty agreements ratified by the UK govt ie. "The EU staying on its current track" as you put it we will have to join the euro or leave the EU or stop spreading unfounded rumours.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Orac

[SgtRock]

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

There has been a fair amount acrimony on both sides, that is true.

But I think it is very easy for the 'remainers' to should racist, xenophobe and Nazi at anyone and then sit back and act like they have won the argument.

From what I have seen, the 'Brexiteers' have been largely focusing on facts (often exaggerated admittedly) rather than calling people Commies or whatever.

The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank.

Now that is funny.

Have you managed to work out the true cost of the UK's membership of the EU yet.

I have only asked about 6 times and each time no answer came the loud reply.

[nontabury]

Be interesting to follow the local results to see if the results come about as predicted or whether there are any early shocks that point to the overall result going one way or another...

EU referendum night: when will the result be known?

https://next.ft.com/content/35f15744-37cd-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7#axzz4CJXLRqxR?ftcamp=traffic/partner/brexit/dianomi/row/auddev

Postal votes,How will they be announced. Will they be announced by region, will they be announced separately?

[Orac]

Be interesting to follow the local results to see if the results come about as predicted or whether there are any early shocks that point to the overall result going one way or another...

EU referendum night: when will the result be known?

https://next.ft.com/content/35f15744-37cd-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7#axzz4CJXLRqxR?ftcamp=traffic/partner/brexit/dianomi/row/auddev

Postal votes,How will they be announced. Will they be announced by region, will they be announced separately?

As i understand it, postal votes are included in the voting area where you are registered to vote.

[returnofthailand]

52% out 48% in

[dick dasterdly]

Chiang mai - "The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank."

Thank you for that informed comment....

[Jip99]

52% out 48% in

Are the results in ?

Have I missed a day ?

[Naam]

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

There has been a fair amount acrimony on both sides, that is true.

But I think it is very easy for the 'remainers' to should racist, xenophobe and Nazi at anyone and then sit back and act like they have won the argument.

From what I have seen, the 'Brexiteers' have been largely focusing on facts (often exaggerated admittedly) rather than calling people Commies or whatever.

The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank.

Now that is funny.

Have you managed to work out the true cost of the UK's membership of the EU yet.

I have only asked about 6 times and each time no answer came the loud reply.

nobody is able to work out the true cost because it is too difficult to quantify the benefits. it is ridiculous and ignorant throwing around amounts of Pounds per day, month or annum to impress the totally ignorant.

ridiculous and ignorant is also insinuating Germany wants the British Empire to remain to share what the clowns in Brussels are wasting. what Germany needs is a strong partner, namely the UK, to check and reign in the afore-said clowns.

[Kwasaki]

Polls in the morning news 23rd...... 51% IN 49% OUT.

[Orac]

DPRK News Service @DPRK_News

Peoples of England face momentous choice, between ignominious slavery to unelected cretins of Brussels, or to elected cretins of London.

[SgtRock]

The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank.

Now that is funny.

Have you managed to work out the true cost of the UK's membership of the EU yet.

I have only asked about 6 times and each time no answer came the loud reply.

nobody is able to work out the true cost because it is too difficult to quantify the benefits. it is ridiculous and ignorant throwing around amounts of Pounds per day, month or annum to impress the totally ignorant.

ridiculous and ignorant is also insinuating Germany wants the British Empire to remain to share what the clowns in Brussels are wasting. what Germany needs is a strong partner, namely the UK, to check and reign in the afore-said clowns.

Naam

It might have been best to read the whole thread and not focus on a single comment. Then you might be aware of what I am talking about.

Just to give you a clue, there are those that believe that the cost of the UK's membership of the EU is nothing more than than the membership fee less rebate.

Where have I insulted in Germany ?

[Jip99]

There has been a fair amount acrimony on both sides, that is true.

But I think it is very easy for the 'remainers' to should racist, xenophobe and Nazi at anyone and then sit back and act like they have won the argument.

From what I have seen, the 'Brexiteers' have been largely focusing on facts (often exaggerated admittedly) rather than calling people Commies or whatever.

The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank.

Now that is funny.

Have you managed to work out the true cost of the UK's membership of the EU yet.

I have only asked about 6 times and each time no answer came the loud reply.

nobody is able to work out the true cost because it is too difficult to quantify the benefits. it is ridiculous and ignorant throwing around amounts of Pounds per day, month or annum to impress the totally ignorant.

ridiculous and ignorant is also insinuating Germany wants the British Empire to remain to share what the clowns in Brussels are wasting. what Germany needs is a strong partner, namely the UK, to check and reign in the afore-said clowns.

Valid point.

I fear you are over-estimating the ability of our UK politicians to achieve what you desire.

[Ace of Pop]

You haven't . Why not.?.

[nontabury]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

I agree with everything you say, apart from the last sentence.

IMO its a bullying tactic - hoping to convince others with a different point of view, that the insulter knows more than those insulted.

Edit - this has (largely) been an interesting debate and I've learnt things of which I was previously unaware. Those reduced to name calling e.g. 'stupid, uneducated' etc. have spoilt the debate, and that's a shame.

Interestingly, 3 or 4 months ago, the opion polls suggested that only about 30% of the electorate favored an exit. Now that figure is about 50% . Could this be because more and more people are now more educated regarding the true facts. And the more they become aware of these facts the more they are tending to favour Brexit.

What will be even more interesting,should the remain side win. What will those who vote remain think in the years ahead,when they come to realise that they have been totally mislead and lied too.

[Ace of Pop]

Polls in the morning news 23rd...... 51% IN 49% OUT.

So that means your out

[Laughing Gravy]

On he topic of the polls here is something to possibly ponder. I know between 400 and 500 people having lived in various countries and places. Admiringly most are in the UK across all place with some in Europe and the Middle East. From these friends I know 4 people who are for remain. From these people they all have between 3-5 hundred friends. They have stated that no more than 10% of people are for remain. That's all of their friends. When I was in the UK a few weeks ago, all I saw was leave posters on peoples cars and houses and I was in the South and North or England. So from my observation where on earth do these Polls make it even or the remain, winning.

So my point is that I just do not trust Polls as a reflection of the people.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Laughing Gravy