New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[Kwasaki]

Polls in the morning news 23rd...... 51% IN 49% OUT.

So that means your out

Nah would vote out anyway, BBC 6.30 am this morning reporting results on Friday morning sometime after 7am.

46,000,000 voters registered.

[SgtRock]

Well, the Guardian is Pro remain.

If the comments section on today's articles open for comment are any indication.

It will be an out vote.

Edited June 23, 2016 by SgtRock

[Laughing Gravy]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

I agree with everything you say, apart from the last sentence.

IMO its a bullying tactic - hoping to convince others with a different point of view, that the insulter knows more than those insulted.

Edit - this has (largely) been an interesting debate and I've learnt things of which I was previously unaware. Those reduced to name calling e.g. 'stupid, uneducated' etc. have spoilt the debate, and that's a shame.

Interestingly, 3 or 4 months ago, the opion polls suggested that only about 30% of the electorate favored an exit. Now that figure is about 50% . Could this be because more and more people are now more educated regarding the true facts. And the more they become aware of these facts the more they are tending to favour Brexit.

What will be even more interesting,should the remain side win. What will those who vote remain think in the years ahead,when they come to realise that they have been totally mislead and lied too.

You certainly have a good argument and I agree. What I would also say that those people in the future who may say we were lied to, it just isn't good enough. The evidence and facts are all there with just a bit of research. That's why the remain campaign have not won the point on immigration because it is plain to see and the people of the UK are feeling it. Same as the point that the EU is undemocratic. The remain haven't even bothered to put an argument across to counter that point because they can't. There are other points but these two alone should be enough for anyone.

It is different times than in the 1970s when people were tricked and lied too. This time it is all out there for people to find and make their own choices,.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[dick dasterdly]

It doesn't really matter anymore as voters have either voted, or will vote today.

Hopefully this means that we can argue the possibilities (without resorting to insults) and see the comments that turned out to be true or false.

[Laughing Gravy]

Well, the Guardian is Pro remain.

If the comments section on today's articles open for comment are any indication.

It will be an out vote.

It is the same with the mirror the comments people are saying, on articles on remain are the same, out. That is before the moderators remove them. An article saying the 4 living prime ministers are all for remain with the comments is worth a read, for a chuckle. Most saying all out.

[sotsira]

Interestingly, 3 or 4 months ago, the opion polls suggested that only about 30% of the electorate favored an exit. Now that figure is about 50% . Could this be because more and more people are now more educated regarding the true facts. And the more they become aware of these facts the more they are tending to favour Brexit.

What will be even more interesting,should the remain side win. What will those who vote remain think in the years ahead,when they come to realise that they have been totally mislead and lied too.

Unfortunately both sides have resorted to lies and unfounded statistics throughout their campaigns

to try and mislead the electorate, therefore whatever the result today, i can see the divided British public becoming even more frustrated with the politicians and the government in the near future.

This referendum will cause divisions whatever the result, it's a lose lose scenario for me.

[Kwasaki]

Well, the Guardian is Pro remain.

If the comments section on today's articles open for comment are any indication.

It will be an out vote.

Well right from the start I thought it would be voted the way the general election is decided.

Me's think the problem will be if 10 vote for IN and 9 vote for OUT in such what they make out to be so important.

[chiang mai]

Chiang mai - "The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank."

Thank you for that informed comment....

You're welcome.

[SgtRock]

Well, the Guardian is Pro remain.

If the comments section on today's articles open for comment are any indication.

It will be an out vote.

It is the same with the mirror the comments people are saying, on articles on remain are the same, out. That is before the moderators remove them. An article saying the 4 living prime ministers are all for remain with the comments is worth a read, for a chuckle. Most saying all out.

Guardian articles open for comment very quickly being closed down for comment.

If these commentators are voters it does not look like it will be a good day for remain.

[Grouse]

BTW - all you military experts - and Nato afficianados...

Nato and US defence chiefs issue security warnings over Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/10/nato-chief-brexit-warning-white-house-david-cameron

What a load of horses pone.

IF the EU fractured and we saw a resurgence of nationalism, which country would NATO defend. Of course NATO is there for external defence but it is the EU that has held Europe together and given us 70 years of peace

[chiang mai]

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

There has been a fair amount acrimony on both sides, that is true.

But I think it is very easy for the 'remainers' to should racist, xenophobe and Nazi at anyone and then sit back and act like they have won the argument.

From what I have seen, the 'Brexiteers' have been largely focusing on facts (often exaggerated admittedly) rather than calling people Commies or whatever.

The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank.

Now that is funny.

Have you managed to work out the true cost of the UK's membership of the EU yet.

I have only asked about 6 times and each time no answer came the loud reply.

You seem to have something you want to tell us about EU membership costs, something you're clearly proud of and want to get off your chest, please, be my guest then hopefully you'll shut up about it and not have to ask a seventh time!

[dick dasterdly]

There has been a fair amount acrimony on both sides, that is true.

But I think it is very easy for the 'remainers' to should racist, xenophobe and Nazi at anyone and then sit back and act like they have won the argument.

From what I have seen, the 'Brexiteers' have been largely focusing on facts (often exaggerated admittedly) rather than calling people Commies or whatever.

The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank.

Now that is funny.

Have you managed to work out the true cost of the UK's membership of the EU yet.

I have only asked about 6 times and each time no answer came the loud reply.

nobody is able to work out the true cost because it is too difficult to quantify the benefits. it is ridiculous and ignorant throwing around amounts of Pounds per day, month or annum to impress the totally ignorant.

ridiculous and ignorant is also insinuating Germany wants the British Empire to remain to share what the clowns in Brussels are wasting. what Germany needs is a strong partner, namely the UK, to check and reign in the afore-said clowns.

I've often wondered where EU 'incoming' money was spent (and assumed it was on 'pet' projects) - without actually looking into it .

I gather a lot is spent on 'subsidies' for owning land that has been turned into wasteland to gain 'farming' money?

The CAP has been a money making venture (for the few) from the start, but this is more than a step too far when so many wealthy landowners are given subsidies by the EU.

The worrying thing is that its not only the EU that has agreed to this, the member governments agreed to it too - and its still not being talked about by either the 'remain' or 'leave' camp.

Or perhaps its all lies?

Edited June 23, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[homeseeker]

On he topic of the polls here is something to possibly ponder. I know between 400 and 500 people having lived in various countries and places. Admiringly most are in the UK across all place with some in Europe and the Middle East. From these friends I know 4 people who are for remain. From these people they all have between 3-5 hundred friends. They have stated that no more than 10% of people are for remain. That's all of their friends. When I was in the UK a few weeks ago, all I saw was leave posters on peoples cars and houses and I was in the South and North or England. So from my observation where on earth do these Polls make it even or the remain, winning.

So my point is that I just do not trust Polls as a reflection of the people.

Well something is very strange here. I too am in contact with people in the UK who likewise are mostly 100% will be voting to "leave". They tell me that in various occupations such as construction, people en masse are determined to vote "Out". I have listened a lot to the media and radio phone ins etc., from the UK and a big majority for leaving.

Seems to be the vote not even close. So why are we being told its' neck and neck?

[Grouse]

The most recent edition of The Economist has a FIRST CLASS essay on the history of the EU. Those genuinely interested in this debate SHOULD read it. It is none partisan and discusses all the angles. 300 THB

That's a bit expensive. How many rolls do you get for that?

If you think 300 THB is expensive I bet you will be supporting Brexit ?

[SgtRock]

The average Brexiteer on this thread wouldn't know a an economic fact if it ran over them in a Chieftain tank.

Now that is funny.

Have you managed to work out the true cost of the UK's membership of the EU yet.

I have only asked about 6 times and each time no answer came the loud reply.

You seem to have something you want to tell us about EU membership costs, something you're clearly proud of and want to get off your chest, please, be my guest then hopefully you'll shut up about it and not have to ask a seventh time!

Just highlighting your utter hypocrisy.

Stay in the 70's playing with Chieftains. The world has moved on. You should try and get updated also.

[dick dasterdly]

On he topic of the polls here is something to possibly ponder. I know between 400 and 500 people having lived in various countries and places. Admiringly most are in the UK across all place with some in Europe and the Middle East. From these friends I know 4 people who are for remain. From these people they all have between 3-5 hundred friends. They have stated that no more than 10% of people are for remain. That's all of their friends. When I was in the UK a few weeks ago, all I saw was leave posters on peoples cars and houses and I was in the South and North or England. So from my observation where on earth do these Polls make it even or the remain, winning.

So my point is that I just do not trust Polls as a reflection of the people.

Well something is very strange here. I too am in contact with people in the UK who likewise are mostly 100% will be voting to "leave". They tell me that in various occupations such as construction, people en masse are determined to vote "Out". I have listened a lot to the media and radio phone ins etc., from the UK and a big majority for leaving.

Seems to be the vote not even close. So why are we being told its' neck and neck?

Who knows? Certainly not me, which is why I'm waiting to hear the result.

[churchill]

In case you didn't know

Yes Minister — Why Britain Joined the European Union

[taxout]

I can not understand this either. Read the comments on the UK media. Across the spectrum, from the Guardian to the Daily Mail, the readership supports Brexit and by a vast margin. Yet the papers themselves report a totally different narrative. It's a complete puzzle.

Edited June 23, 2016 by taxout

[Grouse]

Having watched the Brexiteers with increasing dismay, one thing seems to stand out - the kind if people thay attract - there is hardly a single person in the brexit campaign I wouldn't crooss the road to avoid.

they just seem to bbe a bunch of self-serving ultra-right hardliners....how anyone could fall for they stuff used to be beyond me----now I understand how ditators come to power..

any hoo - here's a man I really respect....

Ben Goldacre.

RIGHT.

I tried to ignore the EU referendum but idiots blaming foreigners, for problems we created, made me too cross.

Here are my reasons for voting Remain.

1. A smaller democracy will not be more representative.

The UK government is no more under your control than the EU. Diluting your vote one in 65m or one in 500m amounts to the same thing: no control. You couldnt get political agreement from the people in one family, one pub, or one bus. You cant vote them out, youve never done that, stop pretending you can do it in the future. Politics is about compromise: terrible, soul-destroying, mature compromise with other people, most of whom are awful. Your local council dont represent your views and values any better than your MEP.

2. Immigration is just going to happen.

In or out of the EU, there will be lots, and lots of immigration: bad luck if you dont like that. Were perfectly able to control non-EU immigration, right now, and yet no government ever does. They never will. This is not the fault of the EU, its more complicated than that. Deal with it. Immigration will never stop.

3. Straining schools, waiting lists, and hospitals are your fault.

This is not the fault of the EU. Its your fault. Its happened slowly. The UK has failed to build houses, failed to train hospital staff, failed to invest in the NHS, failed to build schools. Your country. Your UK. Your government. Your fault. Nobody else. The NHS is staffed by immigrants, they keep it running, they will save your life and build your house. Dont try to blame them for things that are your fault.

4. The EU is a good shot at preserving peace.

Remember that news story about the British generals who think we should leave the EU because NATO preserves peace, not the EU? These are bad generals who only know about guns. Russia right now is an odd, aggressive country. But they didnt show up at the Ukrainian border with tanks, out of the blue: they manufactured a social and economic pretext before they rolled in. A strong EU makes this kind of pretext harder to contrive. You want to be good close friends with all your neighbours, and their neighbours, as far as the eye can see. Thats how you hold a line that preserves peace: by sharing friendship, sharing trade, and sharing grumbles about crap admin in Brussels. You do not preserve peace by buying and using weapons.

5. Brexit use language thats targeted at losers.

The Brexit campaign talk about taking control, about building an optimistic future for yourself. These are things you say to losers: to people who feel they have no control, or a gloomy future. Its the language of crap self-help books in airport bookshops. You are better than that.

6. Countries come and go.

Right now, people talk about Eastern Europeans like theyre biologically destined to be parasites, because their countries are poorer, and some of their citizens travel for work. That could change, really fast. Polish people are not a biologically inferior race: they lived under communism for four decades, and now theyre catching up. Poland has the fastest growing economy in Europe (faster than Central Europe, faster than the EU-15). Warsaw is full of skyscrapers. Be nice. Make friends now. Cement those ties to a large, fast growing European economy with a rich cultural history.

7. Brexit will hurt the economy.

This means your children and neighbours. Stop pretending you dont care. Just vote remain. Its boring, theres nothing awesome about it, but sometimes you have to take a break from useful productive work to stop idiots breaking things.

Ben Goldacre

Wise words sir!

[dick dasterdly]

Polls in the morning news 23rd...... 51% IN 49% OUT.

So that means your out

Nah would vote out anyway, BBC 6.30 am this morning reporting results on Friday morning sometime after 7am.

46,000,000 voters registered.

Registered voters means nothing. I registered to vote, but eventually decided not to vote.

I suspect that the 'undecided' are the major factor in the vote. Will they vote or decide that there is no 'right' answer and not vote?

[Laughing Gravy]

On he topic of the polls here is something to possibly ponder. I know between 400 and 500 people having lived in various countries and places. Admiringly most are in the UK across all place with some in Europe and the Middle East. From these friends I know 4 people who are for remain. From these people they all have between 3-5 hundred friends. They have stated that no more than 10% of people are for remain. That's all of their friends. When I was in the UK a few weeks ago, all I saw was leave posters on peoples cars and houses and I was in the South and North or England. So from my observation where on earth do these Polls make it even or the remain, winning.

So my point is that I just do not trust Polls as a reflection of the people.

Well something is very strange here. I too am in contact with people in the UK who likewise are mostly 100% will be voting to "leave". They tell me that in various occupations such as construction, people en masse are determined to vote "Out". I have listened a lot to the media and radio phone ins etc., from the UK and a big majority for leaving.

Seems to be the vote not even close. So why are we being told its' neck and neck?

A case of "wag the dog' Tell people what they want you to believe and they will follow! Well I believe that we are not all stupid and sheep. The polls have opened Come on and get our country back. Restore my faith in the British people. Please.

[R123]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/bill-coles/eu-referendum_b_10567404.htmlrediction

Will this "expert" be eating his words soon!?

[Jip99]

On he topic of the polls here is something to possibly ponder. I know between 400 and 500 people having lived in various countries and places. Admiringly most are in the UK across all place with some in Europe and the Middle East. From these friends I know 4 people who are for remain. From these people they all have between 3-5 hundred friends. They have stated that no more than 10% of people are for remain. That's all of their friends. When I was in the UK a few weeks ago, all I saw was leave posters on peoples cars and houses and I was in the South and North or England. So from my observation where on earth do these Polls make it even or the remain, winning.

So my point is that I just do not trust Polls as a reflection of the people.

Well something is very strange here. I too am in contact with people in the UK who likewise are mostly 100% will be voting to "leave". They tell me that in various occupations such as construction, people en masse are determined to vote "Out". I have listened a lot to the media and radio phone ins etc., from the UK and a big majority for leaving.

Seems to be the vote not even close. So why are we being told its' neck and neck?

I spent 8 weeks in the UK in March to May. I would say that at least 85% of the people I spoke to (across a broad spectrum of occupations) were in favour of EXIT.

[dick dasterdly]

On he topic of the polls here is something to possibly ponder. I know between 400 and 500 people having lived in various countries and places. Admiringly most are in the UK across all place with some in Europe and the Middle East. From these friends I know 4 people who are for remain. From these people they all have between 3-5 hundred friends. They have stated that no more than 10% of people are for remain. That's all of their friends. When I was in the UK a few weeks ago, all I saw was leave posters on peoples cars and houses and I was in the South and North or England. So from my observation where on earth do these Polls make it even or the remain, winning.

So my point is that I just do not trust Polls as a reflection of the people.

Well something is very strange here. I too am in contact with people in the UK who likewise are mostly 100% will be voting to "leave". They tell me that in various occupations such as construction, people en masse are determined to vote "Out". I have listened a lot to the media and radio phone ins etc., from the UK and a big majority for leaving.

Seems to be the vote not even close. So why are we being told its' neck and neck?

A case of "wag the dog' Tell people what they want you to believe and they will follow! Well I believe that we are not all stupid and sheep. The polls have opened Come on and get our country back. Restore my faith in the British people. Please.

On the other hand, the ridiculous 'scare stories' may have pissed off the voters enough to vote for Brexit.

None of us know, but it would be a bad move to pretend that there is an obvious 'winner' - as that only encourages those who supported the 'other side' (but couldn't be bothered), to go out and vote.

[SgtRock]

This German nails it for me.

I do not believe in the European Union as it is at the moment. It needs to be shaken up, it needs proper leaders. To have a proper shake-up it needs a really big shock, then maybe it can be rebuilt."

Sabine Von Reth, from Frankfurt, who owns the bar with her partner Rene Von Reth

[taxout]

And to continue with the mystery over this:

I can understand the possibility that the media reports are biased towards Remain.

I can understand the possibility that the Bank of England, with help from the U.S. Fed, is keeping the pound strong.

But I can't understand the strength of the equity markets, which are really too large for government control. Nor can I understand the strength of the betting odds against Brexit.

The conflict is baffling as can be.

[SattaheapSea]

if the brit-isolation comes true, AEC community is a new babe would take close look at this dramatic exit seriously.

I beg them to stay as more friends is better than solo.

[allanos]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

We you not the first one to use the words (gullible) fool?

[Orac]

Why are some 'remain' posters so insulting about those who have a different opinion???

I don't understand it as putting forward one's views shouldn't rely on insults against those with a different point of view.

+1

I too have noticed that too, not only on Thaivisa but on youtube and various online news comments sections.

I am for 'Leave', but if someone is a 'Remainer' then I will think they are misguided but will respect their view.

Resorting to school yard style name calling makes me believe that many people are voting with emotion rather than logic.

A fair point but both sides are doing it so wrong to just point the finger at one side - I have just being branded a fool above but I can live with it!

We you not the first one to use the words (gullible) fool?

Yes - and I apologized for it earlier.

[dick dasterdly]

This German nails it for me.

I do not believe in the European Union as it is at the moment. It needs to be shaken up, it needs proper leaders. To have a proper shake-up it needs a really big shock, then maybe it can be rebuilt."

Sabine Von Reth, from Frankfurt, who owns the bar with her partner Rene Von Reth

Except I expect the 'shock reaction' will result in more right-wing policies, rather than cutting back on EMP's salaries and other ridiculous waste...