Now that Britain has voted to leave the EU, what comes next?

[ilostmypassword]

You've made your point and I've made mine, and we've now gone miles offtopic. Not very clever of either of us, is it?

I thought you did rather well demonstrating how little you know about the British education system.

It didn't need me to be clever, I just needed to point out your misconceptions.

And this discussion isn't that off topic, as Brexit was the result of the 'elite' trying to manipulate normal folk.

The 'elite' being those who went to the right public school followed by Oxford and Cambridge, a system you and yours can't compete in no matter how bright because mummy and daddy aren't the right people. I hope you aren't going to try and convince anyone that places at Oxford and Cambridge are awarded on academic ability.

Yes, I feel that way about Boris Johnson, too.

[Khun Han]

You've made your point and I've made mine, and we've now gone miles offtopic. Not very clever of either of us, is it?

I thought you did rather well demonstrating how little you know about the British education system.

It didn't need me to be clever, I just needed to point out your misconceptions.

And this discussion isn't that off topic, as Brexit was the result of the 'elite' trying to manipulate normal folk.

The 'elite' being those who went to the right public school followed by Oxford and Cambridge, a system you and yours can't compete in no matter how bright because mummy and daddy aren't the right people. I hope you aren't going to try and convince anyone that places at Oxford and Cambridge are awarded on academic ability.

You haven't demonstrated anything. Your original premise was that intelligence is closely related to a prolonged formal education, which I and others have exposed as a fallacy.

And you can't even get the thread topic right! It's: "Now that Britain has voted to leave the EU, what comes next?" Such as the proposed trade deal with Australia that I linked.

You come across as a 'last word' type-of-guy, so I'll leave you to it.

[MissAndry]

You haven't demonstrated anything. Your original premise was that intelligence is closely related to a prolonged formal education,

Where did I say that?

[Khun Han]

For those who think a degree makes you intelligent it doesn't,

And the lack of a degree doesn't make you unintelligent.

But it's a fair indication.

^ Here. And this is as far as I'm going with this silly discussion.

[MissAndry]

For those who think a degree makes you intelligent it doesn't,

And the lack of a degree doesn't make you unintelligent.

But it's a fair indication.

^ Here. And this is as far as I'm going with this silly discussion.

Now you're confusing cause and effect.

A long and formal education doesn't make a person intelligent. It's something you either are or you aren't.

And there is no process known to mankind that can turn one into the other.

But someone who is intelligent, has a very good chance of making it through a long and formal education with decent results at the end.

Edited July 18, 2016 by MissAndry

[Mangostin]

It's: "Now that Britain has voted to leave the EU, what comes next?"

There is a light at the end of that tunnel......it's a EuroStar full of British expats, being expelled from the EU after the geniuses behind the Brexit, decided to expel all those bloody foreigners!

[GuestHouse]

Education is relevant in this discussion given the very clear correlation between education and Brexit v Remain support.

Incresed education maps well to increased income the representation of both higher education/income is greater amongst Remain supporters than Brexit, while Brexit drew higher support from people with lower education and lower income levels.

The 'Elite' meanwhile used the support they received from the socio-economic class C1, C2, D and E to strengthen their grip on control over UK politics and are already making proposals that will have a direct negative impact on the very people who handed them the keys to more power... The cap doffing Brexit voters.

Brexit's fight against the "Elite" has been the absolute oposite.

Edited July 18, 2016 by GuestHouse

[Mangostin]

Brexit's fight against the "Elite" has been the absolute oposite.

Agreed, the main reason why politic almost always ends up screwing up its own electorate, it's because there is no knowledge of what their real intentions are, is a nasty farcical game, and as my personal wet nurse used to say, (very)longs ago, "Knowledge is powder!"

[teatree]

For those who think a degree makes you intelligent it doesn't,

And the lack of a degree doesn't make you unintelligent.

My eldest is at uni in the UK. She and all her uni mates are 'remainers', the most important reason being that "We'll all have to apply for visas to travel round Europe on our college trips and holidays if we leave the EU."

From my experience the majority of remainers want to stay in the EU because they may want to work in the EU or retire in Spain one day.

[Khun Han]

Education is relevant in this discussion given the very clear correlation between education and Brexit v Remain support.

Incresed education maps well to increased income the representation of both higher education/income is greater amongst Remain supporters than Brexit, while Brexit drew higher support from people with lower education and lower income levels.

The 'Elite' meanwhile used the support they received from the socio-economic class C1, C2, D and E to strengthen their grip on control over UK politics and are already making proposals that will have a direct negative impact on the very people who handed them the keys to more power... The cap doffing Brexit voters.

Brexit's fight against the "Elite" has been the absolute oposite.

And there are threads where that discussion would be appropriate. But this thread is about what happens next.

But I guess some just want to spam every brexit discussion with the 'brexiters are stupid, remainers are clever' mantra.

[Khun Han]

It's: "Now that Britain has voted to leave the EU, what comes next?"

There is a light at the end of that tunnel......it's a EuroStar full of British expats, being expelled from the EU after the geniuses behind the Brexit, decided to expel all those bloody foreigners!

There's not going to be any forced repatriation in either direcion. The agenda is about establishing the residency rights of existing migrants, and how border controls are formulated going forward. My guess is they will be quota-based and near-enough quid pro quo.

[Mangostin]

The agenda is about establishing the residency rights

I wouldn't hold my breath on that, Tory's governments, past and present ones have extensively proved themselves to be absolutely incompatibles with any sorts of "rights" whatsoever.....that's where those studies of history might comes handy sometimes.

[Khun Han]

Various ministers have stated that the predicament of British nationals living in Europe is tied in with the predicament of EU nationals living in the UK.

[nontabury]

Scotland voted remain by a much greater factor than the margin by which brexit won overal

Let's all remember that this was before "Brexit", now that the situation radically changed, should be no surprise that if another referendum will take place, the result might be very different from the previous one, many people felt the need to continue to be part of a bigger union(for good reasons), but now that England has decided to isolate itself from the rest, i wouldn't be so sure about the outcome.

I agree -- it's a new situation, but the Scottish vote to remain seemed to be significant, and could now easily add to the numbers voting for independence -- assuming hard assurances can be given about Scotland's EU membership.

It all depends on how you read the result.

Edited July 18, 2016 by nontabury

[bkkcanuck8]

Comment about meme image.

There are many things that have been said about her... Not being Scottish or in Scotland I really don't know her, but a lot of of the comments without any depth of thought were misogynist memes.....

This one is not, but then this one really does not match any of what I heard. She has indicated that there is a need for another referendum to settle the issue of UK vs EU.... and a referendum cannot be against it's wishes since it is a democratic mandate from the people to do just that. (assuming a win - which is not a guarantee).

Edited July 18, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[thaibry]

Scotland voted remain by a much greater factor than the margin by which brexit won overal

Let's all remember that this was before "Brexit", now that the situation radically changed, should be no surprise that if another referendum will take place, the result might be very different from the previous one, many people felt the need to continue to be part of a bigger union(for good reasons), but now that England has decided to isolate itself from the rest, i wouldn't be so sure about the outcome.

I agree -- it's a new situation, but the Scottish vote to remain seemed to be significant, and could now easily add to the numbers voting for independence -- assuming hard assurances can be given about Scotland's EU membership.

Many jump on the bandwagon of 'Scotland voted to stay part of the EU'

Where as the reality is the majority of the Scots who voted, voted for the UK to remain in the EU,

There were many questions / threats that came up between both referendum -- and an understanding that this would be the only referendum IF status-quo were to continue but.... if something like Scotland were pulled out against the popular vote of Scotland... then there would have to be another referendum.

Exit polling indicated in Scotland that many people who voted stay voted stay on condition of all the promises of devolution that were made (I am not up to date on these but shortly after there seemed to be backtracking).

Also one of the big "threats" where that if Scotland voted to leave the UK they would be voting to leave the EU (while the UK with veto power could hold them out). The inference to this threat is that a vote to stay in the UK would mean staying in the EU (which polling indicated the remain side would win at that time).

It seems very clear that the vote on which to remain in the UK should article 50 be executed starting Scotland leaving the EU.... is invalid since a lot of the reasons to remain in the UK would have been invalidated. It therefore makes logical sense to take it directly to the people of Scotland that given all the changes.... do you wish to remain in the UK or the EU -- assuming that some way could not allow for both.

Are you really against letting the people of Scotland democratically clear up this quandary?

Should there be another referendum regarding Scotland remaining in the Union, then I advocate that the whole of the UK should be allowed to vote. I know of many English people that would eagerly help the Scots with independence simply to save the money spent supporting them and so that they no longer had to listen to Scots complaints.

[bkkcanuck8]

Should there be another referendum regarding Scotland remaining in the Union, then I advocate that the whole of the UK should be allowed to vote. I know of many English people that would eagerly help the Scots with independence simply to save the money spent supporting them and so that they no longer had to listen to Scots complaints.

If English voters want a referendum on English sovereignty, I don't think anyone would have any issues with it.

[mommysboy]

I guess you have to spare a thought for those English who wanted to Remain in EU, but wanted Scotland out the Union.

Bad luck or what!

[bkkcanuck8]

I guess you have to spare a thought for those English who wanted to Remain in EU, but wanted Scotland out the Union.

Bad luck or what!

Well a friend of mine who is English by birth - was wondering if they might have the option to pick Scottish citizenship if they separate since free movement for labour inside Europe is important to him.

[kartman]

What comes next ? Softbank making the the biggest investment by an Asian country buying ARM keeping it in Cambridge and doubling the workforce in 5 years.

[Thaiwine]

I guess you have to spare a thought for those English who wanted to Remain in EU, but wanted Scotland out the Union.

Bad luck or what!

Well a friend of mine who is English by birth - was wondering if they might have the option to pick Scottish citizenship if they separate since free movement for labour inside Europe is important to him.

I read on the BBC website that EU countries were going to offer citizenship to Brits who want to remain,

Some options here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36703037

[bkkcanuck8]

Well a friend of mine who is English by birth - was wondering if they might have the option to pick Scottish citizenship if they separate since free movement for labour inside Europe is important to him.

I read on the BBC website that EU countries were going to offer citizenship to Brits who want to remain,

Some options here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36703037

Probably too late.... he is currently residing in the Bahamas

[mommysboy]

I guess you have to spare a thought for those English who wanted to Remain in EU, but wanted Scotland out the Union.

Bad luck or what!

Well a friend of mine who is English by birth - was wondering if they might have the option to pick Scottish citizenship if they separate since free movement for labour inside Europe is important to him.

Perhaps every EU economic migrant might have the same bright idea. UKIP would probably run special coaches.

[mommysboy]

Well a friend of mine who is English by birth - was wondering if they might have the option to pick Scottish citizenship if they separate since free movement for labour inside Europe is important to him.

I read on the BBC website that EU countries were going to offer citizenship to Brits who want to remain,

Some options here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36703037

Probably too late.... he is currently residing in the Bahamas

Ah, that fine old European city!

[GuestHouse]

What comes next ? Softbank making the the biggest investment by an Asian country buying ARM keeping it in Cambridge and doubling the workforce in 5 years.

Perhaps simply the plundering of the national silver, as the Co-Founder of ARM Hermann Hauser (doesn't sound too British but who probably knows more about the deal and its impact than anyone onTVF) pointed out

However, the co-founder of ARM Hermann Hauser said: "This is a sad day for me and a sad day for technology in Britain."

"ARM is the last British [technology] company that has a global reach," he said.

"It gave Britain real strength. It was a British company that determined the next generation microprocessor architecture."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36822806

Given the recent drop in the value of the £ on international markets, a bargain deal for the Japanese.

[bkkcanuck8]

What comes next ? Softbank making the the biggest investment by an Asian country buying ARM keeping it in Cambridge and doubling the workforce in 5 years.

Hooray -- GBP went down, Japanese Yen goes up - and now a foreign takeover of a UK semiconductor.... where the new owner makes great promises to the people of that company (heard that before myself - they apparently don't like wrecking moral too early )that things will be great. It would be funny if they doubled the workforce using Indians -- because you know what that would mean

[GuestHouse]

Education is relevant in this discussion given the very clear correlation between education and Brexit v Remain support.

Incresed education maps well to increased income the representation of both higher education/income is greater amongst Remain supporters than Brexit, while Brexit drew higher support from people with lower education and lower income levels.

The 'Elite' meanwhile used the support they received from the socio-economic class C1, C2, D and E to strengthen their grip on control over UK politics and are already making proposals that will have a direct negative impact on the very people who handed them the keys to more power... The cap doffing Brexit voters.

Brexit's fight against the "Elite" has been the absolute oposite.

And there are threads where that discussion would be appropriate. But this thread is about what happens next.

But I guess some just want to spam every brexit discussion with the 'brexiters are stupid, remainers are clever' mantra.

OK. I take your point.

I've removed the bit about education and left the bit about 'what happens next'.

[Richard W]

The 'elite' being those who went to the right public school followed by Oxford and Cambridge, a system you and yours can't compete in no matter how bright because mummy and daddy aren't the right people. I hope you aren't going to try and convince anyone that places at Oxford and Cambridge are awarded on academic ability.

I'm damned sure my place at the latter was awarded on academic ability. That's not to say there aren't other ways to get places. There are quite a few colleges that feel in competition to show good degree results, and they do that by choosing the academically able. One can get odd results - in my day, Magdalene was popularly characterised as being a place for the thick rich and for Micks from comprehensives. ('Thick' is a relative term.)

[SheungWan]

The 'elite' being those who went to the right public school followed by Oxford and Cambridge, a system you and yours can't compete in no matter how bright because mummy and daddy aren't the right people. I hope you aren't going to try and convince anyone that places at Oxford and Cambridge are awarded on academic ability.

I'm damned sure my place at the latter was awarded on academic ability. That's not to say there aren't other ways to get places. There are quite a few colleges that feel in competition to show good degree results, and they do that by choosing the academically able. One can get odd results - in my day, Magdalene was popularly characterised as being a place for the thick rich and for Micks from comprehensives. ('Thick' is a relative term.)

The suggestion that those from the state sector schools cannot at all gain entrance to Oxbridge or even the Russell Group of universities is not supported by any statistical evidence whatsoever and is usually the product of embittered individuals with chips on their shoulders. There is a statistical advantage for those in the private sector but that is not the same thing at all. That some Brexiteers continue to throw out every single weird and wonderful fantasy that continues to bug them no end is a wonder to behold.

Edited July 19, 2016 by SheungWan

[ilostmypassword]

Britain's government is already abandoning the one thing Brexiteers and Tory voters wanted done

Key politicians Amber Rudd and Boris Johnson signalled that Britain's government is going to abandon the one thing a majority of Brexit voters wanted — a reduction in net migration.

Rudd, who is now home secretary and voted to Remain in the European Union, and Johnson,who is now foreign secretary and was one of the leaders for the Vote Leave campaign, are perhaps the most instrumental politicians in deciding how to tackle migration, bar prime minister Theresa May.

However, despite reducing and controlling immigration being the key issue for people voting for to leave the EU and subsequently Brexit winning the vote with 51.9%, those two cabinet ministers say that the target to reduce net migration to below 100,000 has been abandoned by May's new government.

http://www.businessinsider.com/amber-rudd-and-boris-johnson-scrap-uk-migration-target-post-brexit-2016-7