Scotland’s Sturgeon wants independence vote to remain an option

[khunken]

Let the Scots go, if that's what they want. With oil at $50 per barrel, and fast running out, it's difficult to see how they will support themselves without English taxpayers money paying their social security.

Given the fact that the English taxpayers are supporting so many of them, it's hard to see why the Scots hate England and love the EU so much. Or is it? Sturgeon is a robotic little Bolshevik communist and the EU more and more resembles the Soviet Union, with it's centralised control inflicting unemployment and poverty on so many.

I suggest you read the last sentence of the article. This is Sturgeon taking advantage and making mischief. As part of the UK and I say again, as part of the UK the vote was for UK, not Scotland alone, or Ireland alone, or England alone, to leave the EU. EU has already intimated that there will be NO special treatment for Scotland and sent Sturgeon packing. These highly overpaid politicians think that the public should fund referendum, after referendum until they get what THEY (not the majority of the Public) want. There is also another little matter for Sturgeon to consider, she no longer can carry the vote on with only the SNP. She also needs to remember, the last person who lead this ill considered charge for independence had to step down as Chief Minister. Oil is at an almost all time low and if they come out of the UK, Scotland needs to have it's own currency, pending entry in to the EU (which will take several years). The last idiot thought Scotland could still use sterling if they left the UK. By the way, I write this as a Scotsman.

As Ruam Rudy says above - so much disinformation. I would add ignorance too.

If Scotland becomes independent of the UK legally (by referendum) it is free to negotiate entry to the EU. You seem to think that the Scottish vote against Brexit counts for nothing which is an arrogant position to say the least.

Oil is not 'almost at an all time low'. It is now in the mid-40s, way off it's fairly recent low of the 20s.

I'm Irish with 50% Scottish blood and for many years Ireland had it's own pound (the Punt) which was directly linked 1-to-1 with sterling before delinking it and then accepting the Euro. There is no reason why Scotland cannot do the same (Scottish Pound, linked to Sterling) until accepted into the EU..

Isn't it odd that Scotland (& Wales & N.Ireland) have their own football & rugby teams (Ireland as north & south combined)?

[Baerboxer]

And why not, the UK that Scotland voted to remain part of has changed dramatically since the vote.

Now some will say why should Scotland get a second vote so why should there be a second Brexit referendum and I've already heard the ' that's different ' comment.

Or maybe, as the UK is a democracy, the whole UK, i.e. all 4 countries residents, should be asked to vote.

Scotland is part of a union that created a country and rather like the succession of confederate states that decision seems one for the national government or all the people.

Ironically, if that happened, I suspect an overwhelming majority would vote for Scotland to leave with its 8% of the UK's population. Most are becoming sick and tired of one trick pony Nicola and her lies about how she's got a Brexit veto, she's overwhelmed at the warmth of the EU and Scotland can stay in, that she will play a role in Brexit negotiations (somewhat contradicting herself, again) etc etc. The UK government and the EU leaders have made it clear respectively neither is the case.

Sadly, that wouldn't bode well for the majority of Scots who want to remain in the UK, don't support nutty Nicola and her muppets, and even the large number of SNP supporters who voted to leave the UK.

As for Brexit - far more complex. If you really want to know go to a website on UK Constitutional Law. Whilst a second referendum is highly unlikely, the issue of whether the government can use the Royal Prerogative to invoke article 50 or whether an Act of Parliament, following a parliamentary debate and vote is necessary, is highly contested. I reckon 70% of the law experts suggest the latter is necessary.

[goldenbrwn1]

Let the Scots go, if that's what they want. With oil at $50 per barrel, and fast running out, it's difficult to see how they will support themselves without English taxpayers money paying their social security.

Given the fact that the English taxpayers are supporting so many of them, it's hard to see why the Scots hate England and love the EU so much. Or is it? Sturgeon is a robotic little Bolshevik communist and the EU more and more resembles the Soviet Union, with it's centralised control inflicting unemployment and poverty on so many.

I suggest you read the last sentence of the article. This is Sturgeon taking advantage and making mischief. As part of the UK and I say again, as part of the UK the vote was for UK, not Scotland alone, or Ireland alone, or England alone, to leave the EU. EU has already intimated that there will be NO special treatment for Scotland and sent Sturgeon packing. These highly overpaid politicians think that the public should fund referendum, after referendum until they get what THEY (not the majority of the Public) want. There is also another little matter for Sturgeon to consider, she no longer can carry the vote on with only the SNP. She also needs to remember, the last person who lead this ill considered charge for independence had to step down as Chief Minister. Oil is at an almost all time low and if they come out of the UK, Scotland needs to have it's own currency, pending entry in to the EU (which will take several years). The last idiot thought Scotland could still use sterling if they left the UK. By the way, I write this as a Scotsman.

As Ruam Rudy says above - so much disinformation. I would add ignorance too.

If Scotland becomes independent of the UK legally (by referendum) it is free to negotiate entry to the EU. You seem to think that the Scottish vote against Brexit counts for nothing which is an arrogant position to say the least.

Oil is not 'almost at an all time low'. It is now in the mid-40s, way off it's fairly recent low of the 20s.

I'm Irish with 50% Scottish blood and for many years Ireland had it's own pound (the Punt) which was directly linked 1-to-1 with sterling before delinking it and then accepting the Euro. There is no reason why Scotland cannot do the same (Scottish Pound, linked to Sterling) until accepted into the EU..

Isn't it odd that Scotland (& Wales & N.Ireland) have their own football & rugby teams (Ireland as north & south combined)?

Yeh they could quite easily have done that. If they voted to leave the UK two years ago. With the sports though being that it's the national games and seeing that the UK is made up of four nations, that's not odd at all. Plus the rugby three nations might get boring rather quickly.

[Baerboxer]

Let the Scots go, if that's what they want. With oil at $50 per barrel, and fast running out, it's difficult to see how they will support themselves without English taxpayers money paying their social security.

Given the fact that the English taxpayers are supporting so many of them, it's hard to see why the Scots hate England and love the EU so much. Or is it? Sturgeon is a robotic little Bolshevik communist and the EU more and more resembles the Soviet Union, with it's centralised control inflicting unemployment and poverty on so many.

I suggest you read the last sentence of the article. This is Sturgeon taking advantage and making mischief. As part of the UK and I say again, as part of the UK the vote was for UK, not Scotland alone, or Ireland alone, or England alone, to leave the EU. EU has already intimated that there will be NO special treatment for Scotland and sent Sturgeon packing. These highly overpaid politicians think that the public should fund referendum, after referendum until they get what THEY (not the majority of the Public) want. There is also another little matter for Sturgeon to consider, she no longer can carry the vote on with only the SNP. She also needs to remember, the last person who lead this ill considered charge for independence had to step down as Chief Minister. Oil is at an almost all time low and if they come out of the UK, Scotland needs to have it's own currency, pending entry in to the EU (which will take several years). The last idiot thought Scotland could still use sterling if they left the UK. By the way, I write this as a Scotsman.

As Ruam Rudy says above - so much disinformation. I would add ignorance too.

If Scotland becomes independent of the UK legally (by referendum) it is free to negotiate entry to the EU. You seem to think that the Scottish vote against Brexit counts for nothing which is an arrogant position to say the least.

Oil is not 'almost at an all time low'. It is now in the mid-40s, way off it's fairly recent low of the 20s.

I'm Irish with 50% Scottish blood and for many years Ireland had it's own pound (the Punt) which was directly linked 1-to-1 with sterling before delinking it and then accepting the Euro. There is no reason why Scotland cannot do the same (Scottish Pound, linked to Sterling) until accepted into the EU..

Isn't it odd that Scotland (& Wales & N.Ireland) have their own football & rugby teams (Ireland as north & south combined)?

Certainly the usual disinformation and politicians playing games and twisting things to their own ends. Sturgeon loves the limelight and has one obsession. Lot of discord in Scotland about how things are going to pot under SNP governance so this is also a useful deflection which if independence happens also gives her a good extension of political life and allows more clouding of the other more mundane issues of failure.

An independent Scotland could indeed apply for EU membership - and the EU have made it very clear Scotland would be treated the same as any other applicant. The fact Scotland has the largest budget deficit in the developed world might mean meeting the financial criteria a little tricky to say the least. It's rather arrogant to ignore the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the UK and the considerable number who voted to leave the EU too. It's also arrogant to suggest this was a regional referendum when it was a national referendum - the national country being the UK. Although I can understand you enthusiasm for seeing the UK break up.

Who says Scotland would have all the oil revenue? Shetland and Ornkey may decide to remain in the UK or join Norway where they have historic links.

There is every reason why Scotland cannot link a Scottish pound to the GBP - the British government don't have to let them. Britain helped Ireland and helped again when the Irish Tiger nearly became the Irish dead cat. Irish citizens automatically get the right to vote in all elections and referendums in the UK. Ireland in turn as supported the UK in lots of ways. Sturgeon is already saying Scotland doesn't have to accept the Euro - she might want to check that with the EU.

Not odd at all. Football and Rugby in the UK and Ireland had their own long established governing bodies which joined the respective international bodies. They simply stayed the same. Interesting that Rugby always had Ireland to mean the republic and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is the team in the Olympics and the majority of sporting associations, including Rugby League, which represents the 4 UK countries.

[RuamRudy]

And why not, the UK that Scotland voted to remain part of has changed dramatically since the vote.

Now some will say why should Scotland get a second vote so why should there be a second Brexit referendum and I've already heard the ' that's different ' comment.

Or maybe, as the UK is a democracy, the whole UK, i.e. all 4 countries residents, should be asked to vote.

Scotland is part of a union that created a country and rather like the succession of confederate states that decision seems one for the national government or all the people.

Ironically, if that happened, I suspect an overwhelming majority would vote for Scotland to leave with its 8% of the UK's population. Most are becoming sick and tired of one trick pony Nicola and her lies about how she's got a Brexit veto, she's overwhelmed at the warmth of the EU and Scotland can stay in, that she will play a role in Brexit negotiations (somewhat contradicting herself, again) etc etc. The UK government and the EU leaders have made it clear respectively neither is the case.

Sadly, that wouldn't bode well for the majority of Scots who want to remain in the UK, don't support nutty Nicola and her muppets, and even the large number of SNP supporters who voted to leave the UK.

As for Brexit - far more complex. If you really want to know go to a website on UK Constitutional Law. Whilst a second referendum is highly unlikely, the issue of whether the government can use the Royal Prerogative to invoke article 50 or whether an Act of Parliament, following a parliamentary debate and vote is necessary, is highly contested. I reckon 70% of the law experts suggest the latter is necessary.

If the majority of Scots are happy with Westminster, why is the SNP so dominant in Scottish politics? Why have pro-independance parties got a majority in Holyrood?

[SgtRock]

The disinformation and lack of knowledge is quite incredible.

Lets clear up a little misconception. Scotland does NOT have a currency. It is allowed to have money printed ( Sterling ) under licence from the BOE and under the supervision of the UK Government.

By the time an Independent Scotland gets around to meeting the EU joining criteria the EU will probably be a pile of ashes if it does not get its act together very quickly.

[Chicog]

Sturgeon is just a female version of that slimebag Salmond. All she really wants is to be named first El Presidente of Scotlandia.

[RuamRudy]

Let the Scots go, if that's what they want. With oil at $50 per barrel, and fast running out, it's difficult to see how they will support themselves without English taxpayers money paying their social security.

Given the fact that the English taxpayers are supporting so many of them, it's hard to see why the Scots hate England and love the EU so much. Or is it? Sturgeon is a robotic little Bolshevik communist and the EU more and more resembles the Soviet Union, with it's centralised control inflicting unemployment and poverty on so many.

I suggest you read the last sentence of the article. This is Sturgeon taking advantage and making mischief. As part of the UK and I say again, as part of the UK the vote was for UK, not Scotland alone, or Ireland alone, or England alone, to leave the EU. EU has already intimated that there will be NO special treatment for Scotland and sent Sturgeon packing. These highly overpaid politicians think that the public should fund referendum, after referendum until they get what THEY (not the majority of the Public) want. There is also another little matter for Sturgeon to consider, she no longer can carry the vote on with only the SNP. She also needs to remember, the last person who lead this ill considered charge for independence had to step down as Chief Minister. Oil is at an almost all time low and if they come out of the UK, Scotland needs to have it's own currency, pending entry in to the EU (which will take several years). The last idiot thought Scotland could still use sterling if they left the UK. By the way, I write this as a Scotsman.

As Ruam Rudy says above - so much disinformation. I would add ignorance too.

If Scotland becomes independent of the UK legally (by referendum) it is free to negotiate entry to the EU. You seem to think that the Scottish vote against Brexit counts for nothing which is an arrogant position to say the least.

Oil is not 'almost at an all time low'. It is now in the mid-40s, way off it's fairly recent low of the 20s.

I'm Irish with 50% Scottish blood and for many years Ireland had it's own pound (the Punt) which was directly linked 1-to-1 with sterling before delinking it and then accepting the Euro. There is no reason why Scotland cannot do the same (Scottish Pound, linked to Sterling) until accepted into the EU..

Isn't it odd that Scotland (& Wales & N.Ireland) have their own football & rugby teams (Ireland as north & south combined)?

It's rather arrogant to ignore the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the UK and the considerable number who voted to leave the EU too.

It is also extremely arrogant to pull the majority of Scots from the EU against their wishes, or do you only count the views of those with whom you agree?

[mommysboy]

An Independence vote is not an option. A referendum is at the gift of the UK and must include all its people. Scotland voted in a once and for all vote on independence 2 years ago and chose to remain part of the UK.

Any future referendum, say in 30 years time, must be subject to strict terms and conditions perhaps setting a higher bar than the very divisive 50/50. Also since a number of Scottish regions voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the UK, the vote would need to be unaminous across all regions to avoid the possible balkanisation of the UK. To avoid the dirty campaigns we have seen in the past, independently approved fiscal plans must be submitted and published as part of a manifesto.

Independence, should it ever arise, must come with penalties since Scotland would inevitably be reneging on an agreement, thus, leaving the UK with considerable costs, eg. relocation of nuclear deterrent. Provision must also be allowed where possible for regions that want to remain in the UK to do just that. Hard borders are a necessity as Scotland has signalled it's intent to join the EU. Immediate payment of Scotland's debt will be required. Regrettably it will not be possible to sign off assets owned by the UK. Scots living in the UK must leave. Trade between Scotland and the UK will be subject to basic WTO rules with tariffs imposed, since free trade will be reserved for friendly nations.

In the meantime UK reserves the right to declare and enforce a state of emergency within its realm in order to protect all citizens of the UK. The Barnett formula which currently favours Scotland to the tune of billions of pounds may be scrapped immediately and without notice.

Edited July 26, 2016 by mommysboy

[dbrenn]

What about the million or so scots that voted for brexit? What kind of independence does Scotland with a population of 5 million people think they are going to get from Brussels? Scotland voted just two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit,48% of the U.K. Voted to remain. Scotland,now please listen all you braveheart ex pats , has voted two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit so like nearly half of England that voted to remain ,stop whinging and get on with it.

I voted to remain, I'm Scottish (well mostly) and this woman really gets on my ti#ts. Does she actually do or talk about anything else apart from independence?? What does she actually do for Scotland apart from this? All the Scottish whingers should educate themselves and see exactly what the perks actually are from being in the UK. And pray also that the rest of the U.K. don't decide to have their own referendum on keeping us!

And what self determination do we get when we, as a nation, repeatedly and comprehensively reject the Tories yet we are required to endure year after year of their assault on the working class to the betterment of their friends and donors?

They are asset stripping the country, selling off the riches to the highest corrupt bidder whilst reducing the rights of the average person until we will all be in the pockets of their beloved multi nationals and business barons.

There are people on TV who often repeat the nonsense that Scots hate the English - independence is not a rejection of England but of Westminster, a place we clearly have no direct influence over.

Are you trying to say in an eu sense is that what Brussels is to England (UK), Westminster is to Scotland

Not at all - in the EU, an independent Scotland will be an equal member at the table. In the UK, we are an inconvenient afterthought with zero input in Westminster.

So have another referendum and finance yourselves while pretending to be independent and taking orders from piss head Juncker then. Win win.

We'll welcome you back when you change your mind, our brothers and sisters from the beautiful north of this tiny island that we share.

[khunken]

Let the Scots go, if that's what they want. With oil at $50 per barrel, and fast running out, it's difficult to see how they will support themselves without English taxpayers money paying their social security.

Given the fact that the English taxpayers are supporting so many of them, it's hard to see why the Scots hate England and love the EU so much. Or is it? Sturgeon is a robotic little Bolshevik communist and the EU more and more resembles the Soviet Union, with it's centralised control inflicting unemployment and poverty on so many.

I suggest you read the last sentence of the article. This is Sturgeon taking advantage and making mischief. As part of the UK and I say again, as part of the UK the vote was for UK, not Scotland alone, or Ireland alone, or England alone, to leave the EU. EU has already intimated that there will be NO special treatment for Scotland and sent Sturgeon packing. These highly overpaid politicians think that the public should fund referendum, after referendum until they get what THEY (not the majority of the Public) want. There is also another little matter for Sturgeon to consider, she no longer can carry the vote on with only the SNP. She also needs to remember, the last person who lead this ill considered charge for independence had to step down as Chief Minister. Oil is at an almost all time low and if they come out of the UK, Scotland needs to have it's own currency, pending entry in to the EU (which will take several years). The last idiot thought Scotland could still use sterling if they left the UK. By the way, I write this as a Scotsman.

As Ruam Rudy says above - so much disinformation. I would add ignorance too.

If Scotland becomes independent of the UK legally (by referendum) it is free to negotiate entry to the EU. You seem to think that the Scottish vote against Brexit counts for nothing which is an arrogant position to say the least.

Oil is not 'almost at an all time low'. It is now in the mid-40s, way off it's fairly recent low of the 20s.

I'm Irish with 50% Scottish blood and for many years Ireland had it's own pound (the Punt) which was directly linked 1-to-1 with sterling before delinking it and then accepting the Euro. There is no reason why Scotland cannot do the same (Scottish Pound, linked to Sterling) until accepted into the EU..

Isn't it odd that Scotland (& Wales & N.Ireland) have their own football & rugby teams (Ireland as north & south combined)?

Certainly the usual disinformation and politicians playing games and twisting things to their own ends. Sturgeon loves the limelight and has one obsession. Lot of discord in Scotland about how things are going to pot under SNP governance so this is also a useful deflection which if independence happens also gives her a good extension of political life and allows more clouding of the other more mundane issues of failure.

An independent Scotland could indeed apply for EU membership - and the EU have made it very clear Scotland would be treated the same as any other applicant. The fact Scotland has the largest budget deficit in the developed world might mean meeting the financial criteria a little tricky to say the least. It's rather arrogant to ignore the majority of Scots who voted to remain in the UK and the considerable number who voted to leave the EU too. It's also arrogant to suggest this was a regional referendum when it was a national referendum - the national country being the UK. Although I can understand you enthusiasm for seeing the UK break up.

Who says Scotland would have all the oil revenue? Shetland and Ornkey may decide to remain in the UK or join Norway where they have historic links.

There is every reason why Scotland cannot link a Scottish pound to the GBP - the British government don't have to let them. Britain helped Ireland and helped again when the Irish Tiger nearly became the Irish dead cat. Irish citizens automatically get the right to vote in all elections and referendums in the UK. Ireland in turn as supported the UK in lots of ways. Sturgeon is already saying Scotland doesn't have to accept the Euro - she might want to check that with the EU.

Not odd at all. Football and Rugby in the UK and Ireland had their own long established governing bodies which joined the respective international bodies. They simply stayed the same. Interesting that Rugby always had Ireland to mean the republic and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is the team in the Olympics and the majority of sporting associations, including Rugby League, which represents the 4 UK countries.

Of course Sturgeon loves the limelight just like the likes of the racist Farage & buffoon Boris who lied about Brexit.

When Scotland voted to stay in the UK, they did assume that the UK would stay in the EU. It is pretty obvious from the Brexit vote in Scotland that they don't want to leave the EU. And if things have gone to pot under the SNP, why are they so popular?

It was the Brexiteers who implied that Scotland would have the oil money, not me. That is negotiable and as for the islands - just fluff.

There was no permission from the UK for Ireland to link their pound to sterling. It's not needed just as quite a few countries link their currency to the US$. The UK bailed out Ireland? Bullsh1t. In 2008/9 Ireland was bailed out by the EU & IMF but that's a story in itself.

Yes Irish & EU citizens can vote in the UK after they complete residency qualifications. UK & EU citizens enjoy the same right in Ireland & throughout most of the EU.

Football & rugby are proof that separate countries exist within the UK and indeed there are historical reasons for it - just as there are historical reasons for separate political entities like the countries that emerged from Yugoslavia.

[happy Joe]

It's not just the economy.

All Europeans love and respect Scotland, there is no exception. This is certainly due to some folk events such as rugby, the LN monster, whiskey, or kilts but it is a reality.

Moreover, the English tutelage becomes burdensome if it wallows in xenophobia, political archaism and replit self. Who would be British outside the English today?

I think we are at the beginning of the disastrous consequences of the Brexit vote. The predictable result is a steady decline of Pound, the relocation of some big companies, inflation, unemployment and to summarize a general impoverishment of the population.

So it is reasonable to expect that a majority Scots will vote for the exit shortly also be with Northern Ireland.

In this case, Europe will be eager to welcome these news states.

[nontabury]

And why not, the UK that Scotland voted to remain part of has changed dramatically since the vote.

Now some will say why should Scotland get a second vote so why should there be a second Brexit referendum and I've already heard the ' that's different ' comment.

Is this what she means.

[NCFC]

SNP is supposed to stand for an independent Scotland. So why is she not wanting to be independent from the EU?

It's irrational.

[NCFC]

An Independence vote is not an option. A referendum is at the gift of the UK and must include all its people. Scotland voted in a once and for all vote on independence 2 years ago and chose to remain part of the UK.

Any future referendum, say in 30 years time, must be subject to strict terms and conditions perhaps setting a higher bar than the very divisive 50/50. Also since a number of Scottish regions voted overwhelmingly to remain part of the UK, the vote would need to be unaminous across all regions to avoid the possible balkanisation of the UK. To avoid the dirty campaigns we have seen in the past, independently approved fiscal plans must be submitted and published as part of a manifesto.

Independence, should it ever arise, must come with penalties since Scotland would inevitably be reneging on an agreement, thus, leaving the UK with considerable costs, eg. relocation of nuclear deterrent. Provision must also be allowed where possible for regions that want to remain in the UK to do just that. Hard borders are a necessity as Scotland has signalled it's intent to join the EU. Immediate payment of Scotland's debt will be required. Regrettably it will not be possible to sign off assets owned by the UK. Scots living in the UK must leave. Trade between Scotland and the UK will be subject to basic WTO rules with tariffs imposed, since free trade will be reserved for friendly nations.

In the meantime UK reserves the right to declare and enforce a state of emergency within its realm in order to protect all citizens of the UK. The Barnett formula which currently favours Scotland to the tune of billions of pounds may be scrapped immediately and without notice.

But the Scots could withdraw their shortbread!!!

[nontabury]

What about the million or so scots that voted for brexit? What kind of independence does Scotland with a population of 5 million people think they are going to get from Brussels? Scotland voted just two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit,48% of the U.K. Voted to remain. Scotland,now please listen all you braveheart ex pats , has voted two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit so like nearly half of England that voted to remain ,stop whinging and get on with it.

I voted to remain, I'm Scottish (well mostly) and this woman really gets on my ti#ts. Does she actually do or talk about anything else apart from independence?? What does she actually do for Scotland apart from this? All the Scottish whingers should educate themselves and see exactly what the perks actually are from being in the UK. And pray also that the rest of the U.K. don't decide to have their own referendum on keeping us!

And what self determination do we get when we, as a nation, repeatedly and comprehensively reject the Tories yet we are required to endure year after year of their assault on the working class to the betterment of their friends and donors?

They are asset stripping the country, selling off the riches to the highest corrupt bidder whilst reducing the rights of the average person until we will all be in the pockets of their beloved multi nationals and business barons.

There are people on TV who often repeat the nonsense that Scots hate the English - independence is not a rejection of England but of Westminster, a place we clearly have no direct influence over.

Just like a lot of English voters reject the conservatives and Westminster. And to be honest it was the snp voters that assured the UK of a prolonged Tory government. Labour were completely ripped of nearly all its voters in Scotland by the snp.

I am on my mobile so won't go through Google to show you how that suggestion has been comprehensively disproven - the Scottish electorate has zero influence on the composition of the Westminster government. We can ensure its comfort or otherwise, but we never tip the balance.

I will repeat,what I've told you many times R.R

In the last 100 yrs many Scotts have became the Prime Minister of the U.K. Just check how many P.M,s from a small population of 5 million have governed the rest of the U.K. The last two Scottish PM being Tony WMD Blair and Gordon Bigot Brown, and din't they do a good job,probably creating more havoc on the British people than Adolf Hitler in WW2.

Then check out the composition of many Cabinets over the same period. At one time,out of 19 cabinet ministers, 16 were Scottish. Yet you still have the cheek to say you are not represented. It sounds to me that those Scotts like yourself,and let's not forget many do not agree with you, are only prepared to remain in the Union if your the top dog.

If in the event of Scotland separating from the UK and joining the corrupt EU,it would be interesting to see if the unelected Burecrats in Brussels will accept the tail wagging the dog.

Edited July 26, 2016 by nontabury

[nontabury]

What about the million or so scots that voted for brexit? What kind of independence does Scotland with a population of 5 million people think they are going to get from Brussels? Scotland voted just two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit,48% of the U.K. Voted to remain. Scotland,now please listen all you braveheart ex pats , has voted two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit so like nearly half of England that voted to remain ,stop whinging and get on with it.
I voted to remain, I'm Scottish (well mostly) and this woman really gets on my ti#ts. Does she actually do or talk about anything else apart from independence?? What does she actually do for Scotland apart from this? All the Scottish whingers should educate themselves and see exactly what the perks actually are from being in the UK. And pray also that the rest of the U.K. don't decide to have their own referendum on keeping us!

And what self determination do we get when we, as a nation, repeatedly and comprehensively reject the Tories yet we are required to endure year after year of their assault on the working class to the betterment of their friends and donors?
They are asset stripping the country, selling off the riches to the highest corrupt bidder whilst reducing the rights of the average person until we will all be in the pockets of their beloved multi nationals and business barons.
There are people on TV who often repeat the nonsense that Scots hate the English - independence is not a rejection of England but of Westminster, a place we clearly have no direct influence over.

Are you trying to say in an eu sense is that what Brussels is to England (UK), Westminster is to Scotland

Not at all - in the EU, an independent Scotland will be an equal member at the table. In the UK, we are an inconvenient afterthought with zero input in Westminster.

Oh yes of course they will listen to Scotland . They didn't give two shi#s for what the UK had to say as a whole, and you think they going to listen to a country of 5 million? The U.K was one of the biggest contributer to the EU, had a bit of clout on the world stage and Brussels ,EU didn't care less what we said. So good luck with the equal member stuff at the table.

I doubt Scotland would be accepted anyway, Spain ain't having none of it and I'm sure a few others won't be happy about it.

You need to stop spreading falsehoods

1) Brussels decisions went with UK point of you 87% of the time. What was forced through by Brussels against your opinion?

2) UK was 9th of 10 net contributors as proportion of net GDP per head. What are you basing your your opinion on? We paid more than Netherlands? They paid most according to GDP - head

Main reason most Scots would prefer to remain and if necessary break with England is because the outlook there is much closer to Northern Europe than the increasingly nasty right wing UKIP Neo-con Anglo/American outlook.

I am also 50% Scot.

Not really got time for googlin. But net per head sounds like a bit of spin. I'm sure we contributed a lot more than everyone except maybe Germany and France. Oh yeh the vaccuum cleaners annoyed me quite a bit, much preferred over 2000 watts of power, oh and wonky shaped bananas, Mmmmm taste so much sweeter,shame we can't have them anymore....thanks Brussels.

Oh and I'm sure getting closer to all the bombings and murder from terrorists and failed asylum seekers is all what we scots need. We have history like most but I'd rather be closer to our English,Welsh,northern Ireland friends than those looney far left tw#ts in Europe.

Well seemingly Nicola Sturgean has other friends to think about.

[RuamRudy]

What about the million or so scots that voted for brexit? What kind of independence does Scotland with a population of 5 million people think they are going to get from Brussels? Scotland voted just two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit,48% of the U.K. Voted to remain. Scotland,now please listen all you braveheart ex pats , has voted two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit so like nearly half of England that voted to remain ,stop whinging and get on with it.
I voted to remain, I'm Scottish (well mostly) and this woman really gets on my ti#ts. Does she actually do or talk about anything else apart from independence?? What does she actually do for Scotland apart from this? All the Scottish whingers should educate themselves and see exactly what the perks actually are from being in the UK. And pray also that the rest of the U.K. don't decide to have their own referendum on keeping us!

And what self determination do we get when we, as a nation, repeatedly and comprehensively reject the Tories yet we are required to endure year after year of their assault on the working class to the betterment of their friends and donors?
They are asset stripping the country, selling off the riches to the highest corrupt bidder whilst reducing the rights of the average person until we will all be in the pockets of their beloved multi nationals and business barons.
There are people on TV who often repeat the nonsense that Scots hate the English - independence is not a rejection of England but of Westminster, a place we clearly have no direct influence over.

Just like a lot of English voters reject the conservatives and Westminster. And to be honest it was the snp voters that assured the UK of a prolonged Tory government. Labour were completely ripped of nearly all its voters in Scotland by the snp.

I am on my mobile so won't go through Google to show you how that suggestion has been comprehensively disproven - the Scottish electorate has zero influence on the composition of the Westminster government. We can ensure its comfort or otherwise, but we never tip the balance.

I will repeat,what I've told you many times R.R
In the last 100 yrs many Scotts have became the Prime Minister of the U.K. Just check how many P.M,s from a small population of 5 million have governed the rest of the U.K. The last two Scottish PM being Tony WMD Blair and Gordon Bigot Brown, and din't they do a good job,probably creating more havoc on the British people than Adolf Hitler in WW2.
Then check out the composition of many Cabinets over the same period. At one time,out of 19 cabinet ministers, 16 were Scottish. Yet you still have the cheek to say you are not represented. It sounds to me that those Scotts like yourself,and let's not forget many do not agree with you, are only prepared to remain in the Union if your the top dog.
If in the event of Scotland separating from the UK and joining the corrupt EU,it would be interesting to see if the unelected Burecrats in Brussels will accept the tail wagging the dog.

And I have also explained to you that it is unfeasible to think that any politician of any party would be elected Prime Minister while touting a pro Scottish agenda. Brown wasn't even elected into Downing Street. There has certainly been no Prime Minister in my lifetime who was leader of the opposition then won the election while representing a Scottish constituency.

[RuamRudy]

And why not, the UK that Scotland voted to remain part of has changed dramatically since the vote.

Now some will say why should Scotland get a second vote so why should there be a second Brexit referendum and I've already heard the ' that's different ' comment.

Is this what she means.

Once again, a majority of MSPs represent pro-independance parties. The last 2 polls I saw show a clear majority in favour of independence. It is coming.

[Orac]

What about the million or so scots that voted for brexit? What kind of independence does Scotland with a population of 5 million people think they are going to get from Brussels? Scotland voted just two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit,48% of the U.K. Voted to remain. Scotland,now please listen all you braveheart ex pats , has voted two years ago to stay in the UK. The U.K voted for brexit so like nearly half of England that voted to remain ,stop whinging and get on with it.

I voted to remain, I'm Scottish (well mostly) and this woman really gets on my ti#ts. Does she actually do or talk about anything else apart from independence?? What does she actually do for Scotland apart from this? All the Scottish whingers should educate themselves and see exactly what the perks actually are from being in the UK. And pray also that the rest of the U.K. don't decide to have their own referendum on keeping us!

And what self determination do we get when we, as a nation, repeatedly and comprehensively reject the Tories yet we are required to endure year after year of their assault on the working class to the betterment of their friends and donors?

They are asset stripping the country, selling off the riches to the highest corrupt bidder whilst reducing the rights of the average person until we will all be in the pockets of their beloved multi nationals and business barons.

There are people on TV who often repeat the nonsense that Scots hate the English - independence is not a rejection of England but of Westminster, a place we clearly have no direct influence over.

Are you trying to say in an eu sense is that what Brussels is to England (UK), Westminster is to Scotland

Not at all - in the EU, an independent Scotland will be an equal member at the table. In the UK, we are an inconvenient afterthought with zero input in Westminster.

Oh yes of course they will listen to Scotland . They didn't give two shi#s for what the UK had to say as a whole, and you think they going to listen to a country of 5 million? The U.K was one of the biggest contributer to the EU, had a bit of clout on the world stage and Brussels ,EU didn't care less what we said. So good luck with the equal member stuff at the table.

I doubt Scotland would be accepted anyway, Spain ain't having none of it and I'm sure a few others won't be happy about it.

You need to stop spreading falsehoods

1) Brussels decisions went with UK point of you 87% of the time. What was forced through by Brussels against your opinion?

2) UK was 9th of 10 net contributors as proportion of net GDP per head. What are you basing your your opinion on? We paid more than Netherlands? They paid most according to GDP - head

Main reason most Scots would prefer to remain and if necessary break with England is because the outlook there is much closer to Northern Europe than the increasingly nasty right wing UKIP Neo-con Anglo/American outlook.

I am also 50% Scot.

Not really got time for googlin. But net per head sounds like a bit of spin. I'm sure we contributed a lot more than everyone except maybe Germany and France. Oh yeh the vaccuum cleaners annoyed me quite a bit, much preferred over 2000 watts of power, oh and wonky shaped bananas, Mmmmm taste so much sweeter,shame we can't have them anymore....thanks Brussels.

Oh and I'm sure getting closer to all the bombings and murder from terrorists and failed asylum seekers is all what we scots need. We have history like most but I'd rather be closer to our English,Welsh,northern Ireland friends than those looney far left tw#ts in Europe.

Well seemingly Nicola Sturgean has other friends to think about.

But she does want to ask the Scots about that as clearly immigration policy would be a key part of an independence referendum as it was for the UK referendum.

[vogie]

Kim Jon Sturgeon.

[Orac]

Kim Jon Sturgeon.

Doesn't that same law, The Scotland Act that Sturgeon cannot change, also specify that Scotland shall governed in accordance to EU laws?

[Andaman Al]

The fact is that Sturgeon has no mandate or legal right in her position to demand what she is demanding. It is time she was put to pasture. Oh wait, when she is put to pasture I bet she was hoping to do out her days as an MEP maybe even European President. Shame. I think Kim Jon Kranky has more of a ring to it

Edited July 27, 2016 by Andaman Al

[bkkcanuck8]

An Independence vote is not an option. A referendum is at the gift of the UK and must include all its people.

Yes master.... you are right, the Scottish people have no right to self-determination ... since they are slaves to the master race

Only when the English free them are they allowed to go free....

Edited July 27, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[nontabury]

An Independence vote is not an option. A referendum is at the gift of the UK and must include all its people.

Yes master.... you are right, the Scottish people have no right to self-determination ... since they are slaves to the master race

Only when the English free them are they allowed to go free....

Trolling again. You must have a very boring life.

[bkkcanuck8]

An Independence vote is not an option. A referendum is at the gift of the UK and must include all its people.

Yes master.... you are right, the Scottish people have no right to self-determination ... since they are slaves to the master race

Only when the English free them are they allowed to go free....

Trolling again. You must have a very boring life.

I see it as responding to either a statement of absolute arrogance and/or responding to a very trollish statement. The arrogance of saying that a referendum is the gift .... to it's servants. Self-determination is a right, not a gift.

[RuamRudy]

The fact is that Sturgeon has no mandate or legal right in her position to demand what she is demanding. It is time she was put to pasture. Oh wait, when she is put to pasture I bet she was hoping to do out her days as an MEP maybe even European President. Shame. I think Kim Jon Kranky has more of a ring to it

What on earth are you on about? She has an almost majority in a Parliament with a voting system designed to prevent any one party dominating the chamber. The popularity of the SNP remains at unprecedented levels AND pro-independance parties have a collective majority. Of course she has a mandate and a legal right to lead her party and the country in the direction of the party manifesto.

The problem is, for you and many of the other posters on TV, you don't like the Scots taking a commanding role in your Union. You prefer it when we are simply the useful idiots up north. Well, sorry mate, the future of the UK is in our hands, not yours. You just need to get used to that for the next few years, then accept whatever it is that we decide. I realise that this is not a pleasant situation for you, but it is one that I have experienced all my life - feels good to have the shoe on the other foot.

[RuamRudy]

Kim Jon Sturgeon.

Doesn't that same law, The Scotland Act that Sturgeon cannot change, also specify that Scotland shall governed in accordance to EU laws?

It does, indeed, specify that. However it can be changed by the Scottish government. In fact, any attempt by Westminster to change it against the wishes of the Scottish government could be a massive constitutional crisis.

But of course, the Scottish government is unlikely to change the law so your English elected Tory government will likely use this as another reason not to invoke Article 50.

[RuamRudy]

Kim Jon Sturgeon.

Whichever 12 year old that pulled together that little meme clearly knows little of Scottish politics or the Scottish media.

Maybe you can validate it by highlighting which media outlets are slaves to the SNP? Other than The National, there is no other SNP friendly outlet in the UK, although the Herald can sometimes be sympathetic.

[nontabury]

The fact is that Sturgeon has no mandate or legal right in her position to demand what she is demanding. It is time she was put to pasture. Oh wait, when she is put to pasture I bet she was hoping to do out her days as an MEP maybe even European President. Shame. I think Kim Jon Kranky has more of a ring to it

What on earth are you on about? She has an almost majority in a Parliament with a voting system designed to prevent any one party dominating the chamber. The popularity of the SNP remains at unprecedented levels AND pro-independance parties have a collective majority. Of course she has a mandate and a legal right to lead her party and the country in the direction of the party manifesto.

The problem is, for you and many of the other posters on TV, you don't like the Scots taking a commanding role in your Union. You prefer it when we are simply the useful idiots up north. Well, sorry mate, the future of the UK is in our hands, not yours. You just need to get used to that for the next few years, then accept whatever it is that we decide. I realise that this is not a pleasant situation for you, but it is one that I have experienced all my life - feels good to have the shoe on the other foot.

Well that's the thing R.R. As per my earlier post No 46, the Scott's have taken too much of a commanding role over the years in the Union. Now those useful idiots down south are starting to get rather Pxssed- of with the continuous moaning from Some Scott's. This is now allowing the Scottish Nazi Party to exploit the situation they have created between the people of our island. How will it end,who knows, perhaps in a few years separation will occurr, then Scottish people like yourself will be in for a reality check. Personnaly if I were a Scott, I 'd keep very quite,and content myself with the knowledge that I'm getting a very good deal at the expense of my fellow citizens.