Thailand Referendum: Draft constitution wins approval

[mcfish]

What is it about farang that refuse to accept a result that was decided by democratic vote?
1st we had Brexit and farang are still crying about it and now we have the referendum and the tears flowing again.

Suck it up fellas!
A great result for the future of LOS

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[DM07]

3 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Rubbish.These are the same type of people that went to Bangkok and stood against the might of the Army and police.Thai's might be scared(worried) about the future of their country,but they are certainly not scared to stand up.They have chosen peace.

The absence of war, does not equal peace!

[henry15]

The simple fact is, that the Thai voter has more trust in the army than in politicians to give them a brighter future, to solve the many economic, politicak and social problems. Even in Isaan its seems they start to realise that. Therefore the small margin between Yes and No.

 

[Rayk]

It just really goes to show just how little many Thais care about anything other than themselves when 45% of eligible voters don't even exercise their right to vote.

[mtls2005]

"The simple fact is, that the Thai voter has more trust in the army..."

 

Well, ~ 31% of the eligible voters anyway.

 

 

 

 

[baboon]

7 minutes ago, henry15 said:

The simple fact is, that the Thai voter has more trust in the army than in politicians to give them a brighter future, to solve the many economic, politicak and social problems. Even in Isaan its seems they start to realise that. Therefore the small margin between Yes and No.

 

The simple fact is, the Thai voter is sh!t scared of the military and for good reason.

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

"The simple fact is, that the Thai voter has more trust in the army..."

 

Well, ~ 31% of the eligible voters anyway.

So how do you rate those who simply didn't bother? Are they all virulently anti-army, but it was their day to wash their hair?

[glaswegian]

this is a guid honest tae goodness result showing the percentage of uneducated an opportunist people aa across Thailand,  democracy, freedom of speech, the poor, an many mair mean nothing tae the likes of them, i am sure those who voted aye havent tha faintest idea on this charter!-- hard times waiting ahead fer the thais!

[DM07]

12 minutes ago, mcfish said:

What is it about farang that refuse to accept a result that was decided by democratic vote?
1st we had Brexit and farang are still crying about it and now we have the referendum and the tears flowing again.

Suck it up fellas!
A great result for the future of LOS

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk
 

What is it about the junta- fanclub, that they can not accept a result that was decided by a democratic vote?

Oh...yeah...vote buying! Way worse than intimidation and rule of the gun!

[Winniedapu]

32 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

It also could be called common sense.

 

 

Why?

 

Winnie

Edited August 8, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Srikcir]

11 minutes ago, halloween said:

But more than a US president gets.  61% of those who bothered to register and vote is a large majority, no matter how much you try to belittle it.

A presidential election is not the same as a constitutional referendum. Even Prayut knows the difference.                                US constitutional amendments require a super majority of 75% approval by elected officials followed by several layers of super majority ratifications. It may take years to achieve ratification or not. Not so for elections.

In a democratic system, election of officials by a minority of eligible voters may be considered a mandate in the near term. But in the long term of office may subjected to continous review and accountability of their performance by the plurality who may decide to become critical and obstructive. As a result such an elected politician may have to either to adjust his political ideology, face recall,  or lose in the next election.                                                                                                          

[halloween]

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

A presidential election is not the same as a constitutional referendum. Even Prayut knows the difference.                                US constitutional amendments require a super majority of 75% approval by elected officials followed by several layers of super majority ratifications. It may take years to achieve ratification or not. Not so for elections.

In a democratic system, election of officials by a minority of eligible voters may be considered a mandate in the near term. But in the long term of office may subjected to continous review and accountability of their performance by the plurality who may decide to become critical and obstructive. As a result such an elected politician may have to either to adjust his political ideology, face recall,  or lose in the next election.                                                                                                          

This referendum was in Thailand.  A Yes/No choice is comparable to HRC/DT choice, and I suspect the turnout here will be considerably higher.

You don't like the result? So sad, never mind.

 

Edit to add - I don't see US Presidents elected with 30% of registered voters changing their political stance. Do you?

Edited August 8, 2016 by halloween

[mike324]

46 minutes ago, aripengu said:

The turnout and rates of approval in percentage related to registered voters are very similar to the outcome in the 2007 constitution referendum. Let's start season 2 of not having solved anything?...we will see.

 

45 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Landslide victory?                                                                                                                                                                                                           Unofficial returns had the Yes vote at 62 percent with 9 million people voting in favor of the charter, and 5.5 million against.

 

Total voter turnout is then14.5 million.

 

The Interior Ministry in April 2016 suggested that there 50 million eligible voters. So about 29% voter turnout.

Results of the 2007 constitution referendum was 57% went to the polls with 56% Yes vote or about 32% voter turnout.                                   The 2016 Constitution referendum Yes vote is once again a minority supported vote. Hardly a public mandate and likely to suffer the political conflict generated by the 2007 Constitution.

 

 

I would say 2007 Constitution changed for the better on most parts of it. Care to explain why it created conflict and why you guys thought was worse than 1997 version?

[Dagnabbit]

My wife voted yesterday. She was for the constitution.

 

Partly it was so that we would start moving forwards again and not go through the whole process again and partly it was a protest vote against Thai politicians. She does know what's in the constitution and she heartily agrees with the 5 year part because it's another 5 years without a Thaksin crony.

 

Think Brexit, Think Trump.

 

Anyway - next move is for Abhisit to step down. He put his name on the line as being against the charter, the people have spoken and are obviously not with him, so it's time to go.

 

I know lots of westerners like Abhisit but he cannot lead the Democrats, there are too many people that hate him because of what happened when the army took back Rajadamri. The Democrats need someone new at the helm.

 

Trouble is, who? The funny thing is that both parties are corrupt, yet for some reason people were under the impression that a corrupt party had an incorruptible leader in Abhisit. You don't get to the top of the dung-pile without getting some on your shoes...

[Golden Triangle]

6 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

In a BBC report Jonathan Head described how discussion etc had been banned and many Thais didn't understand the details of the new charter.      A young lady voter was interviewed and in the translation of her words she confirmed she didn't really uderstand so had to ask her family what to do,    her dad said vote No so she did  !

For those of us who may have been used to carrying out our civic duty in our home countries it's an interesting question,  "  would you vote Yes or No to a proposal you didn't really understand or abstain   ?  "

 

They voted in the UK referendum - Not many people there understood the implications of a No vote but voted anyway - consequence = chaos. 

[Dagnabbit]

6 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

In a BBC report Jonathan Head described how discussion etc had been banned and many Thais didn't understand the details of the new charter.      A young lady voter was interviewed and in the translation of her words she confirmed she didn't really uderstand so had to ask her family what to do,    her dad said vote No so she did  !

For those of us who may have been used to carrying out our civic duty in our home countries it's an interesting question,  "  would you vote Yes or No to a proposal you didn't really understand or abstain   ?  "

 

Jonathon Head has an opinion, don't confuse that with news.

 

He and the BBC in general are heavily biased when it comes to Thailand.

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

I strongly agree that is in the tea-leaves. That, after all, was the whole point of putting the provision in. Colour me a cynic but I have 100 baht to bet on exactly that happening.

 

Winnie

 

 

It will be him or someone under his thumb. Guys like that only want more power and don't walk away unless they have no other choice or are removed.

[aripengu]

3 minutes ago, mike324 said:

 

 

I would say 2007 Constitution changed for the better on most parts of it. Care to explain why it created conflict and why you guys thought was worse than 1997 version?

The current situation proves id didn't solve much, maybe a real open dialogue and genuine reconciliation would help address the country's problems, but probably wishful thinking, Thais still have a war mindset in many aspects, which is a big hindrance in accepting the opponent's opinions.

[JonnyF]

I'm really surprised by this vote, I fully expected a No vote from the Thai people based on the content of the draft and the opinions expressed by both red and yellow camps.

 

However, if this is truly how they voted and they can accept the draft in it's current form, then the results of the referendum must be respected. However, to many outsiders it might seem like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

 

[Winniedapu]

38 minutes ago, henry15 said:

The simple fact is, that the Thai voter has more trust in the army than in politicians to give them a brighter future, to solve the many economic, politicak and social problems. Even in Isaan its seems they start to realise that. Therefore the small margin between Yes and No.

 

 

 

Hmmm. And you deduced all that from a 33% 'yes' vote?

 

Wow.

 

And Ebola is actually good for you because... ?

 

Winnie

[phutoie2]

8 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

 

Jonathon Head has an opinion, don't confuse that with news.

 

He and the BBC in general are heavily biased when it comes to Thailand.

Tosh, been following the Headman for years out here, his analysis is spot on and the Beeb news is fair too. Let me guess Daily Mail reader.

[Winniedapu]

58 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Mine took from both sides.I asked about the guilt trip and she said"up to them,they want to give".Lost for words as usual with Thai logic.

 

Indeed. The whole vote-buying charade has been done to death. Truth is everyone was at it, and it may have worked a few times. Mostly they took the money and voted for who they were always going to vote for anyway. Thais may not be the brightest stars in the sky, but they're not completely stupid either.

 

Still, it's always a favourite for the pro-junta and Thaksin-hater clubs. I suppose we shouldn't take *all* their toys away...

 

Winnie

Edited August 8, 2016 by Winniedapu

[mike324]

4 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

My wife voted yesterday. She was for the constitution.

 

Partly it was so that we would start moving forwards again and not go through the whole process again and partly it was a protest vote against Thai politicians. She does know what's in the constitution and she heartily agrees with the 5 year part because it's another 5 years without a Thaksin crony.

 

Think Brexit, Think Trump.

 

Anyway - next move is for Abhisit to step down. He put his name on the line as being against the charter, the people have spoken and are obviously not with him, so it's time to go.

 

I know lots of westerners like Abhisit but he cannot lead the Democrats, there are too many people that hate him because of what happened when the army took back Rajadamri. The Democrats need someone new at the helm.

 

Trouble is, who? The funny thing is that both parties are corrupt, yet for some reason people were under the impression that a corrupt party had an incorruptible leader in Abhisit. You don't get to the top of the dung-pile without getting some on your shoes...

 

I would disagree, what was corrupt about Abhisit that you can point out? Other than what happen during the military crackdown? He rose the ranks due to dedicating himself to being a civil servant, very different from many politicians who also owns a business turn politician in order to further their wealth. I mean, Abhisit also rose quick due to his family background, but nonetheless he is a very competent politician. What the army does is really not the fault of Abhisit if you haven't noticed. Another potential leader is Korn, he would probably step in Abhisits place if Abhisit ever steps down.

 

No doubt both sides are corrupt, perhaps we need to seek politicians who don't own personal businesses for a start... there are just too many cases of conflict of interest

[mike324]

1 minute ago, Winniedapu said:

 

Indeed. The whole vote-buying charade has been done to death. Truth is everyone was at it, and it may have worked a few times. Mostly they took the money and voted for who they were always going to vote for anyway.

 

Still, it's always a favourite for the pro-junta and Thaksin-hater clubs. I suppose we shouldn't take *all* their toys away...

 

Winnie

 

Yup, done to death....but you can't blame human nature. The reds were notorious for doing it.... thats why the image stuck

Same goes for people pointing fingers at the "Elite" who are the "Elites"? for I know they fit right in on both sides of the poliltical party....

[rijit]

Tosh, been following the Headman for years out here, his analysis is spot on and the Beeb news is fair too. Let me guess Daily Mail reader.

Not so sure bout heads analysis being ALWAYS spot on but in essence i'de go with most of what you said,and looking bac at some previous comments one in particular about having information readily availiable seems it doesnt really matter if its availiable or not people still <deleted> up buy into propaganda and make really poor judgement calls.

[Winniedapu]

27 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

<snip>

 

Anyway - next move is for Abhisit to step down. He put his name on the line as being against the charter, the people have spoken and are obviously not with him, so it's time to go.

 

I know lots of westerners like Abhisit but he cannot lead the Democrats, there are too many people that hate him because of what happened when the army took back Rajadamri. The Democrats need someone new at the helm.

 

Trouble is, who? The funny thing is that both parties are corrupt, yet for some reason people were under the impression that a corrupt party had an incorruptible leader in Abhisit. You don't get to the top of the dung-pile without getting some on your shoes...

 

1st para: Right. He's been trying to get Sukumbhand out for ages so he can get his feet under tha Bangkok Governor's desk.

 

2nd para: Main reason for him wanting to be Bangkok Governor.

 

3rd para: Spot on, and there's the rub...

 

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

32 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

 

They voted in the UK referendum - Not many people there understood the implications of a No vote but voted anyway - consequence = chaos. 

 

 

Perhaps. But I suspect of you want to see *real* chaos then stick around for a while... see what the court jester has in store...

 

Winnie

[BuriramDevelopers]

oh boy. a step further away

[halloween]

6 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

Indeed. The whole vote-buying charade has been done to death. Truth is everyone was at it, and it may have worked a few times. Mostly they took the money and voted for who they were always going to vote for anyway. Thais may not be the brightest stars in the sky, but they're not completely stupid either.

 

Still, it's always a favourite for the pro-junta and Thaksin-hater clubs. I suppose we shouldn't take *all* their toys away...

 

Winnie

Of course you prefer to ignore that they gave away vote-buying on the micro-scale and moved to macro.  A populist vote-buyer for everyone, who cares if the policies were uneconomic, unworkable, simply stupid or all of the above. And the best part was, they used the people's own money to buy them.

[mike324]

21 minutes ago, aripengu said:

The current situation proves id didn't solve much, maybe a real open dialogue and genuine reconciliation would help address the country's problems, but probably wishful thinking, Thais still have a war mindset in many aspects, which is a big hindrance in accepting the opponent's opinions.

 

Current situation is because the General wants to rewrite it, nothing to do with 2007 Constitution being bad. We are in the current situation due to corrupt leaders / politicians. Actually if politicians were to strictly abide by the 97 or 07 constitution - the country will in good condition. 

 

The current government is giving themselves a more firm grip on what goes on in politics in future hence the revision. That is the main reason why both the PTP and DEM do not favor the 2016 Constitution.

 

You are correct open dialogue and genuine reconciliation would help, its a concept very hard for politicians to accept.... 

 

For those who are interested in reading a translated version 

http://www.un.or.th/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2016_Thailand-Draft-Constitution_EnglishTranslation_Full_Formatted_vFina....pdf