Is Thailands view on Foreigners really changing?

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, dbrenn said:

What do you expect from an ultra right wing military government. They are not keen on foreigners because they hate criticism, and their jingoistic nationalism trickles down to the population.

 

The funny thing is how so many warped foreigners support the Junta, when they have such a disliking for foreigners. A bizarre case of Stockholm Syndrome.

A bit of a catch 22 for me. I dislike the Junta, but some of their actions were very beneficial to me personally. 

 

I do agree that their hate of criticism could have a trickle down effect. However, from speaking with Thai colleagues, many of them are very unhappy with the current status quo but holding their tongues until the big change happens. At that time, I think you will find that there will be greater openness and less nationalism and xenophobia. At least I hope that is the case. 

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, RawboneFunksta said:

 

More and more I think Thais will come to realise that westerners are generally respectful and appreciative of Thailand and while we may not need to adopt all of the cultural behaviours we see here (I'm never going to grovel or even wai) we at least attempt to understand Thai people somewhat. There may be some examples of farang crime but they are pretty rare outside of pattaya.

 

 

I think they already know that farangs are generally respectful and appreciative of Thailand and their culture, BUT that does not pay the bills... and most of the population here will not give us a second thought when they start getting the money from the Chinese. 

[Autonuaq]

Yes, it has changed.

You notice the same changes you see as they have been in the past in other areas of the world.

 

As well the current administration is implementing rules and regulation in a compressed time that Thailand should have implemented long time ago to meet the international standards.

 

This change that most of us notice is making Making Thailand a less attractive place to be. 

 

Besides that, you see also the new Ritch and these new Ritch have the same or even worse attitude as their counterparts in the Western world. And also notice the Thai mentally and view on the Thai. They look down on each other and see the Thai with lesser money and assets as servants or even lesser than that. Showing the real views on things that normally is hidden behind the smile.

 

Thailand is beeing 'upgraded' and will overshoot for a while like all the other did in the past too.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Autonuaq

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

I really don't know, but if you are talking about laws/rule enforcement,

 

   The Army now Police the Police .

Previously the Police were a law unto themselves .

Laws , rules and regulations were routinely flouted, as long as the right people were paid off .

   That has all changed, yeah, it probably still goes on, but it is being clamped down upon .

  The illegal buildings are being torn down, the buildings which were allowed to be built at the time , possible with brown envelopes changing hands in gov offices .

   Bars are now having to conform with laws and regulations .

Top Policeman and Government officials have been moved to inactive posts for alleged malpractices.

  Illegal loggers , who logged with impunity have been clamped down upon .

The list is endless, and there is still a long way to go 

[chrisinth]

I would say that the majority of expat's perspectives are based on second-hand information, ie, public media & social media, and they are feeling things that aren't really there. Drifting into conspiracy theories in some cases.

 

Increase in violence is not just a Thai problem, it is global. The difference is that we see daily reports of incidents that, while being serious to all involved, would not command type space in other countries. Obviously there are exceptions, as there are everywhere else in this world. IMO, this gives a totally false picture of what the majority actually experience here, as is shown by the tourist numbers being reported (if those figures can be relied on).

 

As for the inconvenience of filling in a few extra forms, home visits, random checks? I have always put this down to national security rather than spying on the individual. The authorities are following scripts that are written into their legal system that have previously been overlooked and are now being enforced. This is to be expected when you get the military holding the reins and controlling the country.

 

Speaking as a person who works daily with Thais, and has been doing so for almost 20 years, I have not seen any marked increase in resentment or aggression from those that I work or associate with. On the working side I would also state that this may change depending in what industry you are attached. Or how easily you give in to fear=mongering...............

[wigan]

Wth modern communication ordinary people even of the"lowest order" can switch on their phones and see how "The other half, The well off people" live.

this causes envy and leads to resentment.

Not much the older generations will do about it, but it does stir up the upcoming younger generations who want a slice of the pie.

this is happening worldwide not just Thailand, but mix in Thai temperament and you have a pressure cooker on the boil

[sanemax]

39 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

Positive Changes? Do you mean things like mass surveillance, public lecturing of people the leader doesn't like at that particular point in time, 40 year jail sentences for crimes of nothing more than posting some comments on Facebook, proposed decriminalization of methamphemine, inconsistent sentencing of offenders based on society connections, the inability to find the people behind the ongoing bomb blasts, or the arrest of foreigners not guilty of any crime except that China requested Thailand because they don't like the message of criticism against China.

Oh yeah there's a lot of positive changes!

 

   Mass public surveillance is just a sign of the times, it is happening the World over and it isnt happening because of the Junta in power .

   The Les Majeste laws have been in place since before the Junta came into power.

The proposal of legalising MDMA is just a proposal, which is just a proposal , its very unlikely to be passed as a law .

   Connected people being able to evade the law has also been going on prior to the Junta taking charge , although since the Junta took over , connected people evading the law is being clamped down upon, although there is a long way to go to completely eradicate it .

   There are instances of people who set off bombs not being caught in many places in the World, it isnt unique to Thailand

[MikeyIdea]

3 hours ago, dbrenn said:

What do you expect from an ultra right wing military government. They are not keen on foreigners because they hate criticism, and their jingoistic nationalism trickles down to the population.

 

The funny thing is how so many warped foreigners support the Junta, when they have such a disliking for foreigners. A bizarre case of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

I don't see that the military government is negative against foreigners, I don't see that they are ultra right wing and I don't see that what you think is trickling down to the population. Sorry but I don't see that Thai's see the military government the way you do either

 

The Thai's see the military government as discipline freaks  Now they're even clearing the pavements of street vendors so that people can walk on them, what a stupid idea, where am I going to have my lunch then? Good or bad? Many Thai's think it is bad

 

I think the changes we see mainly are driven by discipline, not ultra right wing, not anti-foreign

 

They "stopped" westerners teaching but they never did of course, they only enforced that teachers must have degrees in education to get a work permit. Bad? Anti foreign? Not quite. They made it difficult for foreigners staying in Thailand on visa runs forever. Why? Because most of the people who do this are engaging in illegal activity = they work without work permit. Bad?

 

Do they always get it right? Certainly not. They ordered restaurants off beaches but missed that they were the ones keeping the beaches clean so now beaches are dirty instead

 

We see at work that corruption really is down, now that is really good. I agree with sanemax.

 

There is good and bad with everything though

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[Shiver]

Government seems to be protecting it's own.  No issue with that (though I think they could be more creative in incentivising rather than threatening only).

On the ground I have noticed a difference though, not particularly against foreigners, but between themselves too.  Last week I was sitting on a roadside waiting for GF as she was buying food at the market before we went onward to a friends.  A young woman came by with her toddler and smiled as she passed in the sense of just saying "good morning".  I was shocked!  How much of a boiled frog have we become that something so simple and innocent stands out as a leading measure?  This was a glimpse of Thailand past, and I hadn't really noticed it as it happened slowly, but a smile with a stranger is almost unknown to me now, where it was at every street or corner, every shop or anywhere, young and old alike.  I suspect if you are to find it at all, it has to be village rather than city.

 

I hate to see how they've picked up the worst habits of the rest of the world ('need' for objects, keeping up with the Joneses, the love of money etc), but didn't take with it the foundational values of honesty, integrity and so on - the things that should be entirely compatible/same as their own culture and therefore not imposing.

I'd be curious to see what the debt is of various generations, inflation adjusted might look like.  It seems they're less happy now than when I came here in 2006, and suspect there may be some correlation showing (potentially) at least part of what the causes are.

 

[NoshowJones]

I think Thailand is much the same now as it was when I first came here to stay about eleven years ago, I am not deliberately

Thai bashing, but the way I see it, the Thai authorities frown on anything that will be advantageous to expats wanting to work or retire here.

They always seem to want to make things harder for us, not letting us own land or homes, condos excepted, they could limit the amount of

land we could own to just two or three rye, which would stop foreigners from buying up lots of land, they could give us expats permanent residence

after we prove that we are good citizens and contributers to their economy after say ten years. There are many more examples.

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

They made it difficult for foreigners staying in Thailand on visa runs forever.

 

 

   Although it is still quite possible to stay in Thailand on tourist visas.

They did clamp down on people staying in Thailand long term on Visa Exempt Stamps , But that did make a mockery of the whole Thai Visa system .

   Why bother getting a tourist visa, retirement visa or anything else, when you could just step across a border and come straight back with no need to get any kind of visa.

    I used to live in Thailand for three years on VES , and its caused me hardship to get proper visas, but all the same I thoroughly understand and agree with why they did it

[MikeyIdea]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

Therein lies the problem. They don't like change and don't want change, so how will they ever progress?

 

Is progress more important than being happy and proud?

 

I thought so when I came here 25 years ago but I slowly changed my mind actually

 

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, khunpa said:

 

I agree that the general population properly feels very much the same. At least towards Farangs. With other foreigners the issue might be different.

 

However, I worry if this might change due to the signals from above. After all, Thais seem pretty easy to convince to just follow the flow. 

 

One thing I do not understand, is that a country being so exposed to tourists for so many years, still can be so afraid of the outside world.

I don't think there is any problem with the majority of the Thai population, in general the people are fine (as long as most of them are not driving or riding motorbikes) helpful people, very few Thai people have ever given me any problem like back in Scotland.

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Yes its changing,not sure if the general population feel any different to Farangs,

but the Thai Government seems to be very Xenophobic ,when I first came here

90 day reporting was a law,but never enforced,now it seems every week there's

a change,and not for the better ,how many times do they need to know where we

live,yearly extension, 90 days report,the new Immigration form,the form the Police

want you to fill in,TM28,TM30, don't know what they will come up with next, 

"Good guys in ,Bad guys out",but it seems like we are all been treated like potential

criminals.

regards worgeordie

Yes, your last bit of your post is spot on, the ridiculous ninety day reporting proves that.

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, starky said:

This may sound like utter nonsense but is it possible the Thai people have just had enough. I get the feeling from most of the Thais I know that they are very disillusioned and uncertain about their future. There is something looming on the horizon that will change Thailand irrevocably and they are terribly oppressed. They are not allowed to express their feelings towards government, the army the police and are now living in a state where they can be arrested for a Facebook post. So maybe it's not necessarily aimed at falangs per se but as they have no one else they can lash out or show their displeasure towards perhaps we are the easiest target. Or perhaps I'm full of shit and nothing here is ever gonna change.

I think there is a lot of sense in what you say.

[mcfish]

They are incredibly tolerant considering a large portion of farang are drunken whore mongers.

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[jmd8800]

One of the things that affects Thai people greatly that is never mentioned is debt. I often read in newspapers that household debt in Thailand is exploding.  A lot of this plays into the capitalist West's need to display how much the poor are being 'lifted out of poverty' in developing countries. They can say wages have increased but they fail to mention so has debt. So the average Thai might not be better off and that leaves the average Somchai pi**ed off.

 

In the west we've been through this cycle.. And just like in the West problems such as these lend themselves to groups (right wingers in the West) to exploit xenophobia. As prices rise and debt burden becomes unbearable to some Thais, they naturally look for something to blame / explain their situation. Blaming the rich is easy. Farangs are perceived as rich. Easy explaination for them. Just like we do in the West.

 

I've not been in Thailand long so I cannot say I notice a difference. Maybe the people who have been here years can see it but my 1.5 years doesn't count as its a drop in the bucket of the big picture. I feel the Thais treat me very good. I've left my wallet at a 7-11 and when I went back the girl was waving her hand to give me my wallet. A shop keeper ran after me when I left my phone. My Thai language teacher helped my shop around different hospitals when I needed an angioplasty. Lots of good things to be said for the people. But, as in the West, there are institutions that exploit peoples weaknesses.

[DSJPC]

I understand and appreciate your viewpoints...if u live in a hellhole like Bangkok, Pattaya or Phuket u will meet people unfriendly to farangs...if u get outta the cities, u will find a whole different world out here!

[amykat]

From Chiang Mai City Life article on immigration problems ...a quote from a certain general:

 

“We now have many retirees who live here on a small stipend, do not contribute to our economy and are often without medical insurance,” he said of the retired expats, whose numbers, he says is the highest amongst expatriates here in Chiang Mai. “It doesn’t mean that we don’t welcome retirees, but we need to be judicious about who and how we accept them. Right now all they need is 800,000 baht in the bank and they can retire.

 

I added the underline to add attention to this ...if the educated people here think this and broadcast this, that money 100% brought from abroad (as retirees we by definition are not working) is not contributing to the economy ...??? And only needing 800K in the bank, doesn't limit you to spending that much, I certainly spend more than that each year. However, 66,000 a month is certainly a significant salary for any CM professional so why would he smirk at that??  And yes, the old we don't have insurance, oh because many can't get insurance ...or we are self insured ...all of this was to divert from the crap service at immigration anyway.

 

Back to my underlined part ...CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS and EDUCATION ...it's lacking here, so you can't argue with these people.  Try explaining how we do contribute to the economy and go around in circles for hours and get nowhere.  Just hand over some cash, they understand that. Stop the cash for 5 mins they think you have stopped contributing to the economy!  (I don't literally mean everyone, I'm making a point.)

[thaibeachlovers]

You are living in the wrong area. I live in a non tourist town with virtually no farangs and there is no hostility to me at all based on me being a farang. Nasty people are nasty to everyone.

 

I am visiting Pattaya, and the attitude towards farangs is significantly harder than even 4 years ago.

I don't like it at all.

IMO it's become all about money now, and sanuk has gone.

 

However, same applies to my home country. It's just about money and status now. Not as nice a place to live as it used to be, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Surasak said:

Therein lies the problem. They don't like change and don't want change, so how will they ever progress?

Why is progress a good thing? Progress has given us children that think it's OK to stick their face in a machine all day, progress gave us the 1%, progress gave us the ME wars and the exploitation of Africa.

You can keep your progress.

[Suradit69]

Quote

Is Thailands view on Foreigners really changing?

 

If any of them have read even a small sampling of the posts on Thai Visa, who could blame them.

 

That said, I have not noticed any loss of friendliness. Some farang, as you probably know, are super-sensitive to any perceived loss of face, especially those farang with an unrealistically high sense of self-importance. Although I disagree with the idea that all Thai people behave or think in a concerted fashion as suggested by the title of this thread, I do think many Thai people do have a radar that picks up on pomposity and arrogance in farang and respond accordingly. What goes around comes around.

[elgordo38]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

Whilst the changes havent been particularly good for me personally , I can appreciate the positive effects the changes have had on Thailand .

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[khunpa]

As household debts have exploded and Thais in general have become much more focus on owning and buying things, I see a big change from 10-20 years ago. The day to day life style has become more challenging since people suddenly have credit card and car loans to pay off. Maybe that is why a large part of the smiles and more relaxed attitude (which made Thailand famous) have slowly disappeared.

 

However, I have many good Thai-friends and I still experience the "old-time" hospitality from time to time. But it is for sure far less than before. I guess it is like that all over the world, where everything has become all about money and most people are constantly chasing money to pay off next months credit card bill.

 

I guess the "American Dream", "Loan and Credit" way of life, has just caught up with Thailand and Thai-people have swallowed it raw. Now as the economy is falling apart and the education-level is in horrible shape, I guess the defence is to try as much isolation from the outside world as possible and try to make friends with countries like China.  

 

It still does not change the fact that many people here are living a life on loans and do not have a educational-level to support the life style in the long run. At some point it is bound to blow up in their face. For sure the bad and low educational-level, will ensure that Thailand will never grow to the level they really want. And this will haunt and hurt them in all ways for a long time.

 

I really love this country and always have, but with all the mess that is going on, I truly fear Thailand is heading for some dark times. And blaming/chasing foreigners, will not help as we can also see on the huge decline in foreign investments during the past few years.  

 

I actually think what will hurt Thailand the most is them trying to isolate themselves from the outside world, as much as possible. Either that, or they will simply indirectly be run and controlled by the Chinese. The question is when things will hit the tipping-point and it all becomes enough for the basic and normal thai-person?

We all know, they can smile and keep claim for a pretty long time, but that they also have their limits. And when they finally have enough, it often ends up being pretty ugly. And although all Thais love their country, we know from history, that they can internally also turn against each other.

Edited October 7, 2016 by khunpa

[red roger]

19 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

They are not afraid of the outside world at all

 

They are just proud of what they are and don't want it to change

And to be overly proud (nationalistic)  and to refuse acknowledgement of the cultures of surrounding countries is a good thing? 

[khunpa]

6 minutes ago, red roger said:

And to be overly proud (nationalistic)  and to refuse acknowledgement of the cultures of surrounding countries is a good thing? 

 

It think before words like "International Trade" and "Global Economy" was invented, it might have been a good thing.

 

The boss of North Korea at least says, they can do well without others. Maybe he is right and all other countries are just stupid.

Edited October 7, 2016 by khunpa

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, red roger said:

And to be overly proud (nationalistic)  and to refuse acknowledgement of the cultures of surrounding countries is a good thing? 

 

   What culture from surrounding Countries do Thais refuse to acknowledge?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   What culture from surrounding Countries do Thais refuse to acknowledge?

I've always found it weird that there are so few Malaysian/Singaporean restaurants in Thailand, for example. There are many Thai restaurants in those nations. There are more Malaysian/Singaporean restaurants in the typical large U.S. city than in Bangkok. It's a really wonderful, interesting, distinctive cuisine in a bordering nation. It's bizarre to me really. Imagine the USA without Mexican restaurants. OK, very few Canadian ones, but that's because the national cuisines are so similar. Thai food and Malaysian/Singaporean are very different. I find that an interesting clue about Thai attitudes towards their close neighbors. 

[nemrut]

No other country in the world makes it as easy to enter and stay to live as Thailand.  

 

In fact, farang are treated far better in Thailand than any Thai or non-white person would be in western countries.  

 

How many western countries would let people enter and live so easily?

[Jingthing]

Just now, nemrut said:

No other country in the world makes it as easy to enter and stay to live as Thailand.  

 

In fact, farang are treated far better in Thailand than any Thai or non-white person would be in western countries.  

 

How many western countries would let people enter and live so easily?

Cambodia isn't easier?