Why does my Honda City use so much oil?

[Strange]

13 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

555 pages and pages of replies - and no one caught on to the most obvious  ...

 

OP - first thing, check the PCV valve. It is usually located in a rubber grommet in the valve cover. Remove this - simply pull it out, and give it a shake. You should hear a rattle like a marble in a can of spray paint. If it makes no sound - replace it. It is not letting the vapours out of the crankcase and causing a buildup of pressure which will pull oil past the piston rings on the intake stroke. If it rattles OK, check the hoses it connects to to ensure that they are in good shape.

If PCV system checks out, it must be piston rings or valve seals. A leakdown test will tell for sure where it is. The advice given above re: running a heavier weight of oil can help, but is a bandaid solution and your engine will need work. If oil seals,  they can be replaced with the head left on the engine if you know how. Does anyone is LOS know the trick ?  Doubtful.

 

Piston at TDC and compressed air in the cylinder, and a slightly specialized tool to separate spring/retainer (can make one easily for a one off job)

[canthai55]

My comment was more directed to a Thai shop in LOS. A piece of starter cord or paracord may also be used if air compressor is not available.

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

My comment was more directed to a Thai shop in LOS. A piece of starter cord or paracord may also be used if air compressor is not available.

 

Yeah can for sure, really hard and finicky though trying to get everything re-assembeled. Harder on a 4 valve or 5 valve setup. 

[AsianExport]

If you use cheap oil maybe it's even better ? So the engine oil is always new and clean ?

 

Just asking !

[whaleboneman]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

 

Yeah can for sure, really hard and finicky though trying to get everything re-assembeled. Harder on a 4 valve or 5 valve setup. 

Actually, I think it's much safer to use the cord. And it goes inside cylinder so number of valves does not matter. I have heard of people using compressed air and engine turned over and valves dropped into cylinder. Whoops!

I have had hondas for years now. In Canada we use 5w20 oil. I change oil every 5000 k and never add in between changes as there is no consumption noticeable. I would recommend to OP to go to a 5w30 and see if this helps first.

Also, my car only holds 3.8 liters of oil. If OP had to add 2 liters at once, then I would say he has damaged piston rings because he has let oil fall to extremely low level.

[maphraw]

I am the original OP and to answer 'Anythinleft's question about what kind of oil I have been using. Well, the last time I had an oil change was at a Honda dealer in Jomthien, August 8th and they put in 'SN OW20 1000Lit Honda'. That was the oil type written on my receipt. Last week, October 4th, I went to the mechanic that often changes my oil. The oil left in my car was down to a very low level. He is aware of the problem but doesn't do that l kind of repair work. He put 2 liters of Sunoco Ultra 3 semi 10w40 in my car  (this was the oil type written on the receipt) and that filled it up. This was last Monday. Since then, the oil level has remained steady at a full level. But I haven't driven it much since last Monday, only  a few hundred Kilometers. Normally I drive about 1,100 kilomters a week, on average. Prior to my last oil change at the Honda dealer, I had the oil changed at the mechanic's place (July 12th)' It was a Sunoco oil but I don't know what the oil type or number was because it was not on the receipt. I will ask them what number oil they normally put in my car when they change the oil next time I go upcountry (the mechanic works in a very large Goodyear tire shop  in Buriram). Actually, I can call them and ask them what kind of oil they normally use when I get my oil changed at their place. They keep a history of the car's service on their computer so they should have the oil type and number. Today is Sunday and they are closed so will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[Don Mega]

Maphraw, in my opinion the 20 grade oil put in by Honda is way too thin for and engine of that age with that many KM's on it and explains the excessive oil usage to a certain extent, consumption should be less with the 40 grade oil your mechanic put in. 

 

Ask your mechanic to perform a leakdown test.

[bluejets]

Penrite HPR50 (4w-70)

[Strange]

4 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

Actually, I think it's much safer to use the cord. And it goes inside cylinder so number of valves does not matter. I have heard of people using compressed air and engine turned over and valves dropped into cylinder. Whoops!

I have had hondas for years now. In Canada we use 5w20 oil. I change oil every 5000 k and never add in between changes as there is no consumption noticeable. I would recommend to OP to go to a 5w30 and see if this helps first.

Also, my car only holds 3.8 liters of oil. If OP had to add 2 liters at once, then I would say he has damaged piston rings because he has let oil fall to extremely low level.

 

You "have heard"? Piston at TDC wont turn the engine over. Even if you are a little before or after TDC just turn the pressure down. 

[Strange]

57 minutes ago, maphraw said:

I am the original OP and to answer 'Anythinleft's question about what kind of oil I have been using. Well, the last time I had an oil change was at a Honda dealer in Jomthien, August 8th and they put in 'SN OW20 1000Lit Honda'. That was the oil type written on my receipt. Last week, October 4th, I went to the mechanic that often changes my oil. The oil left in my car was down to a very low level. He is aware of the problem but doesn't do that l kind of repair work. He put 2 liters of Sunoco Ultra 3 semi 10w40 in my car  (this was the oil type written on the receipt) and that filled it up. This was last Monday. Since then, the oil level has remained steady at a full level. But I haven't driven it much since last Monday, only  a few hundred Kilometers. Normally I drive about 1,100 kilomters a week, on average. Prior to my last oil change at the Honda dealer, I had the oil changed at the mechanic's place (July 12th)' It was a Sunoco oil but I don't know what the oil type or number was because it was not on the receipt. I will ask them what number oil they normally put in my car when they change the oil next time I go upcountry (the mechanic works in a very large Goodyear tire shop  in Buriram). Actually, I can call them and ask them what kind of oil they normally use when I get my oil changed at their place. They keep a history of the car's service on their computer so they should have the oil type and number. Today is Sunday and they are closed so will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

Hey Op, sorry about the thread derail. Id try a 0W30 or 10w30 conventional or semi-synthec. Whatever is cheaper or available on the shelf at the service place. 

 

If that does not work, and you feel that its going through too much oil, you'll need to find a mechanic that can give you a quote. Sometimes its more economical to keep checking the oil and topping it up than to have it repaired. 

[Maybole]

At such a high mileage, the cylinder bores and piston rings are bound to be well worn. New rings may help, but a rebore and oversize pistons are necessary. But, it may be economical to get a reconditioned engine.

[Anythingleft?]

1 hour ago, maphraw said:

I am the original OP and to answer 'Anythinleft's question about what kind of oil I have been using. Well, the last time I had an oil change was at a Honda dealer in Jomthien, August 8th and they put in 'SN OW20 1000Lit Honda'. That was the oil type written on my receipt. Last week, October 4th, I went to the mechanic that often changes my oil. The oil left in my car was down to a very low level. He is aware of the problem but doesn't do that l kind of repair work. He put 2 liters of Sunoco Ultra 3 semi 10w40 in my car  (this was the oil type written on the receipt) and that filled it up. This was last Monday. Since then, the oil level has remained steady at a full level. But I haven't driven it much since last Monday, only  a few hundred Kilometers. Normally I drive about 1,100 kilomters a week, on average. Prior to my last oil change at the Honda dealer, I had the oil changed at the mechanic's place (July 12th)' It was a Sunoco oil but I don't know what the oil type or number was because it was not on the receipt. I will ask them what number oil they normally put in my car when they change the oil next time I go upcountry (the mechanic works in a very large Goodyear tire shop  in Buriram). Actually, I can call them and ask them what kind of oil they normally use when I get my oil changed at their place. They keep a history of the car's service on their computer so they should have the oil type and number. Today is Sunday and they are closed so will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

Thanks for the update maphraw, 0w20 is Honda's recommended oil for cars after 2011it's them using the same for more applications but it's fully synthetic (expensive) and has a few drawbacks on higher mileage vehicles that have started to wear, the dealerships will tend to push their own products even though they are not necessarily correct for the application (this being Thailand). Stick with the 10w40 semi that the recent mechanic has put in, or, next service change the oil to a10w40 mineral oil (slightly cheaper) and I am sure you will see the oil consumption slow down or stop to where it was before, you do a lot of miles and higher engine speeds so the 0w20 is a little light, it was originally manufactured and distributed to promote better fuel consumption

Just keep a regular eye on the dipstick level and you should be fine, don't worry about the brand too much just remember that with oil  you do get what you pay for so pay that little bit extra and try not to mix mineral and synthetics when topping up the car

Hope this helps

[Don Mega]

Maphraw, what fuel do you use ?

[transam]

I reckon 0-20 is your problem, OK in a new lump but possible high mileage, engine worn, high rpm ride, it will burn oil. If me I would use a 10-40 or even higher and see if it improves long term.

[steve187]

as Transam posted  0-20 is a bit low for a high milage car. the 10-40 you have at present will be better, maybe go to a 20-50,  I have a Honda city a bit older than yours, but with half the milage, oil is not used from 1 oil change to the next, as others have posted if the change to a thicker oil doesn't cure the problem, it looks like engine work, or an engine change will be required, or if the vehicle looks ok than sell and buy another one. Slow your top speed down that should also help.

[Ace of Pop]

Honda Jomtien put the wrong oil in,that's for the newish ones it like Sewing Machine oil is 0/20 no wonder it disappeared fast


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[DavisH]

When my honda civic had a similar mileage I was losing oil too. Nothing on the ground. It was the head gasket letting a little oil out. Check carefully around the engine again. Hopefully its a leak as its cheaper to fix gaskets then replacing valves/piston rings, etc. I've never had a problem with those, even after 240K kms. 

 

[Strange]

I wouldn't go from 0w20 to 20w50 in a car with bearing clearance setup to run 0w20 or 10w30. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

I wouldn't go from 0w20 to 20w50 in a car with bearing clearance setup to run 0w20 or 10w30. 

The thin oil could have something to do with camshaft stuff...The handbook should state oil grades for different temperature environments...Well mine does....

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

The thin oil could have something to do with camshaft stuff...The handbook should state oil grades for different temperature environments...Well mine does....

 

Agreed, they all should. Honda for sure. The variable valve timing is achieved through engine oil, and another reason to stay kinda close to what the manufacturer advises. I wouldn't worry about peeking outside of the range, but going from 0w20 to 20w50 I don't think I would do, and Im usually willing to run anything lol 

[transam]

Seems the oil they put in was for Alaska....

 

[maphraw]

I use 91 gasohol, usually PTT.

[transam]

Just now, maphraw said:

I use 91 gasohol, usually PTT.

WoW, your bearings held up...? 

[steve187]

millers oil in the UK are saying 5-30 to 10-40 for that engine.

[whaleboneman]

4 hours ago, Strange said:

 

You "have heard"? Piston at TDC wont turn the engine over. Even if you are a little before or after TDC just turn the pressure down. 

Maybe you could explain how a large diesel engine starts with compressed air then? And once the valves drop it may be too late to turn down air pressure eh?

[Strange]

2 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

Maybe you could explain how a large diesel engine starts with compressed air then? And once the valves drop it may be too late to turn down air pressure eh?

 

We are not talking about a large diesel engine here we are talking about smaller gasoline engines. Cranking air into a diesel cylinder to start it is not the same as here. There are different types of cylinder head design that would make "Stuffing a piece of rope" through the spark plug hole pretty dang ineffective. 

 

After removing the cam (s) assembly, all the valves will be closed on every cylinder and you will be applying air to only one cylinder with the piston at TDC and the crank at the top of its throw. There is no opposing force on the other pistons to push or move the crank away from TDC of the hole you are working on and being that the crank is at the top of its throw, its really hard to push the piston down. You will know immediately if the piston wants to move when you apply air and way before you start breaking down the spring. 

[Don Mega]

51 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

Maybe you could explain how a large diesel engine starts with compressed air then? And once the valves drop it may be too late to turn down air pressure eh?

 A few psi in one cylinder aint gunna move the piston in a small capacity petrol engine.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

 A few psi in one cylinder aint gunna move the piston in a small capacity petrol engine.

I used high air pressure in my V8 to change valve springs..Piston never moved..

[whaleboneman]

14 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

We are not talking about a large diesel engine here we are talking about smaller gasoline engines. Cranking air into a diesel cylinder to start it is not the same as here. There are different types of cylinder head design that would make "Stuffing a piece of rope" through the spark plug hole pretty dang ineffective. 

 

After removing the cam (s) assembly, all the valves will be closed on every cylinder and you will be applying air to only one cylinder with the piston at TDC and the crank at the top of its throw. There is no opposing force on the other pistons to push or move the crank away from TDC of the hole you are working on and being that the crank is at the top of its throw, its really hard to push the piston down. You will know immediately if the piston wants to move when you apply air and way before you start breaking down the spring. 

The point I was making is that compressed air can turn an engine while you said it can't. I won't argue that any more.  Also, I have yet to see a cylinder head where I couldn't pull a plug and stuff rope in. But that's just my experience.

[Don Mega]

rope works well, if you get enough in there but if you dont good luck compressing the spring to put the collets back in.

 

Me, I'll stick to compressed air 100% works 100% every time.