Why does my Honda City use so much oil?

[DUNROAMIN]

As the old TV add used to say Oils aint Oils anymore, Modern day motors are not what they used to be 20-30 years ago. Many motorcar manufacturers today design motors for specific oils. Beefing up your oil grade will not necessarily stop your motor from using oil. Many premium oils today can be rated from 0 - 30, 5 - 25, 10 - 40 and so on. Many years ago the technology was not around for high end synthetic performance oils, consequently, many older type engines would suffer from oil burning and internal parts wearing much quicker than they do today. Todays oils are design to become very thin at a certain temperature thus allowing it to penetrate into the most minute places of an engine, giving the engine a longer life. Keep in mind that if the manufacture says to use their recommended grade oil, stick to it.

Given your case, there are a lot of variables, like, how you drive your car, serviced as per the log book, is the correct oil being used and so on.

I have worked on engines of all types for many years and found sometimes no matter how good your are with taking care of your car, an engine is only as good as the day it was made. I have seen well known brands travel less than 20,000 Klms and start to use oil.

Why: Engine blocks and heads are mass produced in the millions today, most car manufactures have out sourced most of their parts and the finished product are only assemble at the factory, this is where quality assurance can come undone. In your case maybe the engine has seen its day and its time to trade in, or get a replacement engine fitted, however this being Thailand I would not recommend the latter.

Cheers

[transam]

3 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

As the old TV add used to say Oils aint Oils anymore, Modern day motors are not what they used to be 20-30 years ago. Many motorcar manufacturers today design motors for specific oils. Beefing up your oil grade will not necessarily stop your motor from using oil. Many premium oils today can be rated from 0 - 30, 5 - 25, 10 - 40 and so on. Many years ago the technology was not around for high end synthetic performance oils, consequently, many older type engines would suffer from oil burning and internal parts wearing much quicker than they do today. Todays oils are design to become very thin at a certain temperature thus allowing it to penetrate into the most minute places of an engine, giving the engine a longer life. Keep in mind that if the manufacture says to use their recommended grade oil, stick to it.

Given your case, there are a lot of variables, like, how you drive your car, serviced as per the log book, is the correct oil being used and so on.

I have worked on engines of all types for many years and found sometimes no matter how good your are with taking care of your car, an engine is only as good as the day it was made. I have seen well known brands travel less than 20,000 Klms and start to use oil.

Why: Engine blocks and heads are mass produced in the millions today, most car manufactures have out sourced most of their parts and the finished product are only assemble at the factory, this is where quality assurance can come undone. In your case maybe the engine has seen its day and its time to trade in, or get a replacement engine fitted, however this being Thailand I would not recommend the latter.

Cheers

Nooooooooo, you do not use 0-20 oil in a hot climate..............

[sotsira]

5 hours ago, Ace of Pop said:

Honda Jomtien put the wrong oil in,that's for the newish ones it like Sewing Machine oil is 0/20 no wonder it disappeared fast


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

I disagree with you on this Ace cos it's clearly written in the Honda City owners Handbook that SN OW/20 is the recommended oil for the OP's year and model

which is for 2009 to 2013 5th generation with the L15A7 engines.

[maphraw]

4 hours ago, transam said:

WoW, your bearings held up...? 

I use 91 gasohol, usually PTT.

 

What kind of fuel should I be using then. My Honda say 91 or 95.

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, sotsira said:

I disagree with you on this Ace cos it's clearly written in the Honda City owners Handbook that SN OW/20 is the recommended oil for the OP's year and model

which is for 2009 to 2013 5th generation with the L15A7 engines.

Thats some real good info there. If thats the case I wouldn't be putting 20w50 in there. Maybe 0w30 

 

Just now, maphraw said:

I use 91 gasohol, usually PTT.

 

What kind of fuel should I be using then. My Honda say 91 or 95.

 

That fuel is 100% fine lol 

[DUNROAMIN]

30 minutes ago, transam said:

Nooooooooo, you do not use 0-20 oil in a hot climate..............

I did not say to use 0 -20 in hot climate, I merely was giving examples of what oils are recommended by manufactures, obviously different countries different recommendations.

[transam]

1 minute ago, maphraw said:

I use 91 gasohol, usually PTT.

 

What kind of fuel should I be using then. My Honda say 91 or 95.

The topic is about engine oil..............

[sotsira]

4 hours ago, transam said:

Seems the oil they put in was for Alaska....

 

 

Funny that T/A but that diagram is actually shown in the Honda City owners handbook,

but only showing the top arrow and second arrow giving the range of OW-20 THROUGH TO 5W-30 which give the same temperature variations -30c to 40c.

And underneath the diagram is clearly states to use SN-0W-20 engine oil.

AND

That was in a Thai written owners handbook specifically for use in Thailand.

[transam]

Just now, sotsira said:

 

Funny that T/A but that diagram is actually shown in the Honda City owners handbook,

but only showing the top arrow and second arrow giving the range of OW-20 THROUGH TO 5W-30 which give the same temperature variations -30c to 40c.

And underneath the diagram is clearly states to use SN-0W-20 engine oil.

AND

That was in a Thai written owners handbook specifically for use in Thailand.

If one grade of oil was OK anywhere for this ride there would be no graph.....If me it would be 10-40 in LOS.

[sotsira]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

If one grade of oil was OK anywhere for this ride there would be no graph.....If me it would be 10-40 in LOS.

 

Like i said it's a Thailand manual which means recommended for Thailand.

 

The graph in the handbook shows a multigrade of oil from

0W-20 THROUGH TO 5W-30

Couldn't be more clearer!

 

From what your saying all engines in Thailand should use 10-40, but not all engines 

are the same with the same tolerances and mechanical design, also the Honda City 

engine is a VTEC which i think plays a significant role in the viscosity of oil used.

[transam]

Just now, sotsira said:

 

Like i said it's a Thailand manual which means recommended for Thailand.

 

The graph in the handbook shows a multigrade of oil from

0W-20 THROUGH TO 5W-30

Couldn't be more clearer!

 

From what your saying all engines in Thailand should use 10-40, but not all engines 

are the same with the same tolerances and mechanical design, also the Honda City 

engine is a VTEC which i think plays a significant role in the viscosity of oil used.

We are talking about the OP's problem........I have done some research to try and help the guy out with his PROBLEM..........My advice is 10-40 to try and solve a PROBLEM.......Up to him.

 

[DUNROAMIN]

4 minutes ago, sotsira said:

 

Like i said it's a Thailand manual which means recommended for Thailand.

 

The graph in the handbook shows a multigrade of oil from

0W-20 THROUGH TO 5W-30

Couldn't be more clearer!

 

From what your saying all engines in Thailand should use 10-40, but not all engines 

are the same with the same tolerances and mechanical design, also the Honda City 

engine is a VTEC which i think plays a significant role in the viscosity of oil used.

100% correct, couldn't agree more, however, I think the original OP problem is beyond any oil changing solution.

[transam]

1 minute ago, DUNROAMIN said:

100% correct, couldn't agree more, however, I think the original OP problem is beyond any oil changing solution.

So you think a high mileage ride must continue to follow the new rides manual and carry on burning thin oil..

Gawd....

[Strange]

16 minutes ago, sotsira said:

Like i said it's a Thailand manual which means recommended for Thailand.

 

The graph in the handbook shows a multigrade of oil from

0W-20 THROUGH TO 5W-30

Couldn't be more clearer!

 

From what your saying all engines in Thailand should use 10-40, but not all engines 

are the same with the same tolerances and mechanical design, also the Honda City 

engine is a VTEC which i think plays a significant role in the viscosity of oil used.

 

If this is what the manual says, and OP has been using a full synthetic 0w20 with 250k on the clock, I would definitely first try a 5w30 non-synthetic before moving out of the manufacturer range. If this doesn't work, then OP needs to either deal with it, and keep oil in it, or take it to some shops for a quote. 

 

Agree and the VTEC system needs the correct oil well as bearing clearance. 

[DUNROAMIN]

1 minute ago, transam said:

So you think a high mileage ride must continue to follow the new rides manual and carry on burning thin oil..

Gawd....

 

2 minutes ago, transam said:

So you think a high mileage ride must continue to follow the new rides manual and carry on burning thin oil..

Gawd....

I am not a technical expert on oils, however, I  have been down this path before many years ago, with a similar problem. Placed a heavy grade oil into an engine to slow down usage, ended up doing more damage in the long run to internal working parts over a 10,000Klm period, this was evident after stripping down the motor and getting checked by professional people. This may not be the case for every motor, maybe a heavier oil will help, but not solve the underlying problem. Done and dusted. Cheers for now

[Ace of Pop]

1 hour ago, sotsira said:

 

I disagree with you on this Ace cos it's clearly written in the Honda City owners Handbook that SN OW/20 is the recommended oil for the OP's year and model

which is for 2009 to 2013 5th generation with the L15A7 engines.

I would never argue with a Gentleman Sotsira, can only say they never used that in our Reps ( superb)   Citys with twin spark injection engines, i only saw thin oil used when E85 Engines compatable came out here, and caused a load of know it alls here to say it was no good... Strange cause most of em drove a Clonker that were experts on Honda Oil. So No Change really. I could be wrong though.

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

I would never argue with a Gentleman Sotsira, can only say they never used that in our Reps ( superb)   Citys with twin spark injection engines, i only saw thin oil used when E85 Engines compatable came out here, and caused a load of know it alls here to say it was no good... Strange cause most of em drove a Clonker that were experts on Honda Oil. So No Change really. I could be wrong though.

 

If its the same engine just running on a different fuel, why would it need a different oil? 

[transam]

41 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

 

I am not a technical expert on oils, however, I  have been down this path before many years ago, with a similar problem. Placed a heavy grade oil into an engine to slow down usage, ended up doing more damage in the long run to internal working parts over a 10,000Klm period, this was evident after stripping down the motor and getting checked by professional people. This may not be the case for every motor, maybe a heavier oil will help, but not solve the underlying problem. Done and dusted. Cheers for now

Perhaps your mechanical problems were already there before your oil weight rise eh.....You cannot fix a mechanical problem with thicker oil, you can fix an oil burning, worn engine problem with thicker oil....That's why oil manufacturers do produce oils for the worn engine situation.. 

[Sooo Upto Me]

1 hour ago, sotsira said:

 

Like i said it's a Thailand manual which means recommended for Thailand.

 

The graph in the handbook shows a multigrade of oil from

0W-20 THROUGH TO 5W-30

Couldn't be more clearer!

 

From what your saying all engines in Thailand should use 10-40, but not all engines 

are the same with the same tolerances and mechanical design, also the Honda City 

engine is a VTEC which i think plays a significant role in the viscosity of oil used.

 

Yes totally agree with u there. That's wot i woz trying to explain to a couple of these self acclaimed tech guys yesterday, but they seemed to know better.

But hey it wouldn't be the same on TVF with these wannabes. ?

[Sooo Upto Me]

Just now, Sooo Upto Me said:

 

Yes totally agree with u there. That's wot i woz trying to explain to a couple of these self acclaimed tech guys yesterday, but they seemed to know better.

But hey it wouldn't be the same on TVF without these wannabes. ?

 

[transam]

9 minutes ago, Sooo Upto Me said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, Sooo Upto Me said:

 

Yes totally agree with u there. That's wot i woz trying to explain to a couple of these self acclaimed tech guys yesterday, but they seemed to know better.

But hey it wouldn't be the same on TVF with these wannabes. ?

Glad we have you aboard with your magazine info...Dee ma....

[Anythingleft?]

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

If its the same engine just running on a different fuel, why would it need a different oil?

The oils have a relationship with the fuels by design from the detergents and additives that are added in at manufacture. Certain additives are included into the oils to remove or gather deposits from unspent fuels and the ring blow by and suspend them in the oil, if the fuel is changed then the originally designated additives and detergents may not be as effective at gathering the harmful substances and preventing them from damaging the internals of the engine

We are talking way over the top for normal run of the mill day to day service requirements but that's the theory behind it and they spend millions developing them just like the OP's original Honda 20 oil which was designed specifically to enhance fuel economy

[transam]

Just now, Anythingleft? said:

The oils have a relationship with the fuels by design from the detergents and additives that are added in at manufacture. Certain additives are included into the oils to remove or gather deposits from unspent fuels and the ring blow by and suspend them in the oil, if the fuel is changed then the originally designated additives and detergents may not be as effective at gathering the harmful substances and preventing them from damaging the internals of the engine

We are talking way over the top for normal run of the mill day to day service requirements but that's the theory behind it and they spend millions developing them just like the OP's original Honda 20 oil which was designed specifically to enhance fuel economy

And Alaska....

[Strange]

Just now, Anythingleft? said:

The oils have a relationship with the fuels by design from the detergents and additives that are added in at manufacture. Certain additives are included into the oils to remove or gather deposits from unspent fuels and the ring blow by and suspend them in the oil, if the fuel is changed then the originally designated additives and detergents may not be as effective at gathering the harmful substances and preventing them from damaging the internals of the engine

We are talking way over the top for normal run of the mill day to day service requirements but that's the theory behind it and they spend millions developing them just like the OP's original Honda 20 oil which was designed specifically to enhance fuel economy

 

What about flex fuel & duel fuel engines? 

 

When it says to change the oil weight/grade, you are not changing additives, just the viscosity grade. 

[Anythingleft?]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

What about flex fuel & duel fuel engines? 

 

When it says to change the oil weight/grade, you are not changing additives, just the viscosity grade

Like I mentioned way more than everyday service requirements call for, the dual fuel and flex grades of oils are not as effective in the long run as they work over a broader spectrum. The oils have set specifications which most of us never read, but have you not seen the same grades of oil for sale that are designated petrol and diesel, this is why, because of the additives and detergents involved. Every oil grade and brand will have it's own list of additives the grade is just the basic starting point

[Strange]

Just now, Anythingleft? said:

Like I mentioned way more than everyday service requirements call for, the dual fuel and flex grades of oils are not as effective in the long run as they work over a broader spectrum. The oils have set specifications which most of us never read, but have you not seen the same grades of oil for sale that are designated petrol and diesel, this is why, because of the additives and detergents involved. Every oil grade and brand will have it's own list of additives the grade is just the basic starting point

 

So you are saying that duel fuel and flex fuel require a certain oil, E85 requires a certain oil, and gasoline require a certain oil, outside of the viscosity grade? 

 

Can you refer me to the API standard dictating the differences in these oils?

[Anythingleft?]

For a base guide

 

PDF]Engine Oil Guide - cj-4 website

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

For a base guide

 

PDF]Engine Oil Guide - cj-4 website

 

I see nothing in there saying there is an API standard for strictly E85, DuelFuel, and Gasoline. 

 

Can you cite the standard for me? 

[tifino]

the following may be relevant, if the OP had ever suffered some engine overheating in the past:

 

if OP decides the thick oil route - what about Penrite, a worldwide brand - and they have a great HPR-50 product

 

I wasn't in LOS at the time (over the border in Malaysia) , and it certainly cut oil consumption

beforehand, I'd get a 1.25L oil lost for a 100km trip (I averaged this out, from over a period of journeys)

 

It took my my mind off my MPG concerns, when I instead recorded my oil's MilesPerLitre usage instead.

 

Sometime down the track, I obtained some REDEX.

The REDEX treatment, removed all the Glazing from the cylinder walls (better than honing for sure!! )

 

The problem was still there, but less severe, and at least it became consistent - at 310KM/L oil

 

 

[Ace of Pop]

Steady on Chaps .If you have run E85 like I have for 4yars the first thing you notice is it ain't Petrol it's the Mrs Nail Varnish Remover..E20 is milder pong but still nothing like Real stuff.So back off Honda and things we ain't sure about.Bathurst V8s are All on 85 n pissy oil ,so enjoy you don't have old Cityand embrace today's oil


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