May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

I can complain if I want. It's not my fault all candidates and party's are self serving egomaniacs that could not care about people in the slightest or do you think it's morally right to vote for a party that treats disabled people with complete disdain? OK I will offer an alternative and will vote for the Official Monster Raving Loony Party



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Of course you can complain but you will be wasting your time. Wake up to reality and think that by not voting you cannot affect the result in any way at all. You don't believe in politicians so you won't even write to them and give your thoughts on how YOU feel the system should be changed. You are like a voice in a deep forest. Will anybody hear you and will anybody care?

[Johnyo]

[/url]

Wow , how on earth can anybody vote for this woman. Is she even human?

Strong and stable and blah blah blah and national security and blah blah blah.

Very good at not answering questions though.




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Marr - but we have nurses going to food banks Prime Minister.

PM - "there are are complex reasons why people go to food banks."

Really? Pathetic answer


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[Flustered]

4 hours ago, mommysboy said:

But those better paid jobs are becoming increasingly rare due again to automation.  This is a thing that effects not only manual workers, in fact the fiddly jobs in the fields are probably safe.

 

Sad fact is that many millions of people, some highly qualified, are essentially useless in an economic sense. 

 

The only interim solution, more temporary damage limitation, is a yearly subsistance hand out to all, which frees people up to find extra work at the paultry wages that will become the norm.  I think this is being piloted in Finland, parts of Canada, and I think a suburb of Glasgow is considering it.  Such a scheme might allow British workers to take the low paid fruit picking jobs for instance.

 

What Britain seems to be doing is to create a low wage, low tax, low regulation/low rights  economy with reduced social welfare.  It is a pragmatic solution to a beginning massive shift in global circumstances.  Its terrible of course.

Absolute socialist clap trap, keep on saying it in the hope that some will believe it.

 

Back in the 60s when work was scarce, I joined the army to learn a trade and get some self esteem. I did not go to university as my parents could not afford it. I studied under my own steam and made something of my life.

 

After the army, I went where the work was and if that meant overseas, then so be it. I looked for work, I did not sit on my arse and expect handouts. I did not claim benefits as they paid more than good honest work. My wife and I waited until we could afford to have children. We did not have children and expect the State (tax payer) to pay for them.

 

The biggest problem today is that we have become a nation of handouts and benefits. It is easier to sit on you arse and do nothing. It is easier to stay in one place and complain there is no work.

 

Hey, if this is the sort of country you want the UK to be, you are welcome to it. I and many like me have made something of our lives, scrimped and saved hard and gone without yesterday so that we could have something tomorrow when we need it.

 

Socialism is a great failure and it's time people started taking responsibility for themselves rather than expecting the tax payer to do so. The EU is taking us further down this road and TM is the person to stand up to them and say we want what is best for British people. Jeremy Corbyn has already said (in so many words) he would capitulate and give the EU what it wants disregarding the needs of the UK.

 

I know a lot of lefty luvvies will be up in arms screeching about how we should help the poor down trodden masses and that those of us who work hard and save hard should pay more in tax so that they can sit back and do nothing.

 

1984 anyone?

[nontabury]

56 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

Marr - but we have nurses going to food banks Prime Minister.

PM - "there are are complex reasons why people go to food banks."

Really? Pathetic answer


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

I'm not disputing what Andrew Mart said. But is there actually any proof that many, or in fact  any nurses are relying on food banks.

You could say the same about Teacher. And in one of today's newspapers, there is an article about two unemployed,qualified teachers living, for the last 3 yrs in B+B  ( Premior Inns to be exact,at the tax payers expense) Yet I know for a fact,that the UK is suffering from a shortage of Teachers. 

[Johnyo]

I'm not disputing what Andrew Mart said. But is there actually any proof that many, or in fact  any nurses are relying on food banks.
You could say the same about Teacher. And in one of today's newspapers, there is an article about two unemployed,qualified teachers living, for the last 3 yrs in B+B  ( Premior Inns to be exact,at the tax payers expense) Yet I know for a fact,that the UK is suffering from a shortage of Teachers. 

I found a few articles. Here is just one of them

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/full-time-nurses-relying-on-handouts-and-food-banks-rwwtjr295




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[vogie]

32 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

I found a few articles. Here is just one of them

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/full-time-nurses-relying-on-handouts-and-food-banks-rwwtjr295




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

I wouldn't believe everything you read on the internet, do you honestly think that nurses are going to foodbanks? The average wage is about £24,000 and with overtime £50,000 or even more. 

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Flustered said:

Absolute socialist clap trap, keep on saying it in the hope that some will believe it.

 

Back in the 60s when work was scarce, I joined the army to learn a trade and get some self esteem. I did not go to university as my parents could not afford it. I studied under my own steam and made something of my life.

 

After the army, I went where the work was and if that meant overseas, then so be it. I looked for work, I did not sit on my arse and expect handouts. I did not claim benefits as they paid more than good honest work. My wife and I waited until we could afford to have children. We did not have children and expect the State (tax payer) to pay for them.

 

The biggest problem today is that we have become a nation of handouts and benefits. It is easier to sit on you arse and do nothing. It is easier to stay in one place and complain there is no work.

 

Hey, if this is the sort of country you want the UK to be, you are welcome to it. I and many like me have made something of our lives, scrimped and saved hard and gone without yesterday so that we could have something tomorrow when we need it.

 

Socialism is a great failure and it's time people started taking responsibility for themselves rather than expecting the tax payer to do so. The EU is taking us further down this road and TM is the person to stand up to them and say we want what is best for British people. Jeremy Corbyn has already said (in so many words) he would capitulate and give the EU what it wants disregarding the needs of the UK.

 

I know a lot of lefty luvvies will be up in arms screeching about how we should help the poor down trodden masses and that those of us who work hard and save hard should pay more in tax so that they can sit back and do nothing.

 

1984 anyone?

 

Not sure what this has to do with my posting at all which is about the future effects of robotics on the workforce.

 

What a very early Monday morning rant!

 

 

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

The only surprise was it wasn't 99% leave.  Also staunch blue monkeys.

 

Count Totals for Bournemouth

The total number of ballot papers counted was	91998
The number of votes cast in favour of REMAIN was	41473
The number of votes cast in favour of LEAVE was	50453
The number of ballot papers rejected was as follows:-
No official mark	0
Both answers voted for	31
Writing or mark by which the voter could be identified	1
Unmarked or void for uncertainty	39
The total number of ballot papers rejected was	71
The turnout was	69.3%

 

 

 

 

A little bit closer than I expected ... but with so many old folk hardly surprising. A quick stroll to the polling booth followed by a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake ... served by that lovely Polish girl who works in the cafe!

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Artificial intelligence will increasingly replace even an intelligent workforce.

 

Still, all those millions are needed to consume.

 

Human ingenuity should not be underestimated.  It looks like Blighty will be one big Butlins- everyone on holiday, and on a very tight budget.

Keynes thought that we'd all be enjoying plenty of leisure by now ... so far he's not been proved right ... we'll all be geriatrics in our 80's working within the fast food industry ... 

[mommysboy]

16 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

A little bit closer than I expected ... but with so many old folk hardly surprising. A quick stroll to the polling booth followed by a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake ... served by that lovely Polish girl who works in the cafe!

 

Funny you should say that!  Poor old dad passed away a couple of months ago.  He spent the last couple of months in a nursing home which was staffed almost entirely with foreign workers.

 

(Quite what he was doing there is another issue, since he was a very, very sick man who should have been in hospital.  NHS also tried to take away continuing care.  I would expect an even worse situation when we've left EU.  I wouldn't mind if it was me, but he paid tax and NI all his very long working life.)

 

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

19 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Keynes thought that we'd all be enjoying plenty of leisure by now ... so far he's not been proved right ... we'll all be geriatrics in our 80's working within the fast food industry ... 

Unfortunately, leisure can only be enjoyed if there is money, otherwise it's called misery.

[AlexRich]

9 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Funny you should say that!  Poor old dad passed away a couple of months ago.  He spent the last couple of months in a nursing home which was staffed almost entirely with foreign workers.

 

(Quite what he was doing there is another issue, since he was a very, very sick man who should have been in hospital.  NHS also tried to take away continuing care.  I would expect an even worse situation when we've left EU.  I wouldn't mind if it was me, but he paid tax and NI all his very long working life.)

 

 

Sorry to hear that, mine sadly went prematurely some time back ... he died in hospital and unfortunately his care from some non-foreign nurses was pretty poor. My preference is for a "Mexican suicide" ... where I die asleep on a chair with a  sombrero covering my head.  

[SheungWan]

20 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

 

The charming, warm-hearted Hard Brexiteer guys just say starve them out.

 

18 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

They've probably been charmed by the 'hug and mug' scam after a few beers, or the 'sick baby ATM' scam by those lovely Romanian travelling folk who provide such a rich contribution to our working class town centres. 

Yes, always an excuse-me for some (BNP?) guys who will not be deflected from the idea of starving people into submission. Maybe once the immigrants have been starved out then provide a few cattle trucks to transport them east. That will certainly add to the historical 'charm'.

[teddog]

17 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Yes, always an excuse-me for some (BNP?) guys who will not be deflected from the idea of starving people into submission. Maybe once the immigrants have been starved out then provide a few cattle trucks to transport them east. That will certainly add to the historical 'charm'.

 

 

You have no clue what you are on about.  eastern Europeans (yes  Slovak mother,8 kids taking up social housing in MK), Romanian Big Issue sellers working 15 hour week walking into every benefit claim they can lay their filthy hands on,more of the filth in UK prisons...of course your hand is never in your own pocket supporting them ,your thinking is everyone should support them in the UK...me? Id pitchfork the dross out at a moments notice...deflect your own stupid ideas  get back over there  roll your sleeves up and get stuck in

 

  One more thing  ..Brexit is here and now and forever,no need spilled milk quotes,   best thing ever  ,all those new found immigrants in the EU,just what they need  LOL

Edited May 1, 2017 by teddog

[vogie]

11 hours ago, Flustered said:

Absolute socialist clap trap, keep on saying it in the hope that some will believe it.

 

Back in the 60s when work was scarce, I joined the army to learn a trade and get some self esteem. I did not go to university as my parents could not afford it. I studied under my own steam and made something of my life.

 

After the army, I went where the work was and if that meant overseas, then so be it. I looked for work, I did not sit on my arse and expect handouts. I did not claim benefits as they paid more than good honest work. My wife and I waited until we could afford to have children. We did not have children and expect the State (tax payer) to pay for them.

 

The biggest problem today is that we have become a nation of handouts and benefits. It is easier to sit on you arse and do nothing. It is easier to stay in one place and complain there is no work.

 

Hey, if this is the sort of country you want the UK to be, you are welcome to it. I and many like me have made something of our lives, scrimped and saved hard and gone without yesterday so that we could have something tomorrow when we need it.

 

Socialism is a great failure and it's time people started taking responsibility for themselves rather than expecting the tax payer to do so. The EU is taking us further down this road and TM is the person to stand up to them and say we want what is best for British people. Jeremy Corbyn has already said (in so many words) he would capitulate and give the EU what it wants disregarding the needs of the UK.

 

I know a lot of lefty luvvies will be up in arms screeching about how we should help the poor down trodden masses and that those of us who work hard and save hard should pay more in tax so that they can sit back and do nothing.

 

1984 anyone?

Never truer words were spoken when Mrs Thatcher said

 

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

[sandyf]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

Never truer words were spoken when Mrs Thatcher said

 

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

I would think that after 50 odd years the Findhorn Foundation has proved her wrong on that one, probably the most successful communist experiment of all time.

Its not concept of socialism that is the problem more to do with reality.

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

Never truer words were spoken when Mrs Thatcher said

 

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"

Well it's Monday 1st of May. Labour day and a public holiday. May I remind our honourable military men that after the war, returning warriors swept Mr Atlee to power on the promise of a fairer civil society? The NHS was one of the results - quite revolutionary at the time. 

 

Also, university education was free during the sixties including tuition, accommodation, subsistence, beer and flared jeans!

 

Becareful what you wish for....

[sandyf]

7 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

Not sure what this has to do with my posting at all which is about the future effects of robotics on the workforce.

 

What a very early Monday morning rant!

 

 

Just another denial. Before going into Europe in 1973 the UK was a low wage , low regulation and low rights economy and if the UK heads back that way it will have absolutely nothing to do with brexit.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well it's Monday 1st of May. Labour day and a public holiday. May I remind our honourable military men that after the war, returning warriors swept Mr Atlee to power on the promise of a fairer civil society? The NHS was one of the results - quite revolutionary at the time. 

 

Also, university education was free during the sixties including tuition, accommodation, subsistence, beer and flared jeans!

 

Becareful what you wish for....

Ah the wonderful NH, overfunded and totally mismanaged, many would say a failed project, it doesn't matter how much money we pump intp the NH it always seems to find its way to the fatcats that running it and not to patient care. And to add insult to injury, I have paid my National Insurance for over 50 years, and guess what, I'm not allowed to use their services because I choose to live abroad. Does that sound fare to you? Yes as you say it was revolutionary at the time, and a good idea, but unfortunately it is a system that has become grossly abused and needs a radical overhaul.

 

You also mention Universitys in the 60's, I tend to agree with you on this, where only highly intelligent youngsters went. Infact I never knew anybody that went to uni, but some-one once told me they knew some-one that had gone. It was so rare for anyone to go, it really meant something. However these days it would seem anybody that wants to go, goes, don't you think it makes going to uni rather meaninless these days?

 

ps, what have I wished for?

[vogie]

53 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I would think that after 50 odd years the Findhorn Foundation has proved her wrong on that one, probably the most successful communist experiment of all time.

Its not concept of socialism that is the problem more to do with reality.

Having not read the Foghorn Foundations I can't possibly comment, all I need is my own eyse and ears to see whats happening. Communism where everyone is equal, except some are more equal than others!

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

Ah the wonderful NH, overfunded and totally mismanaged, many would say a failed project, it doesn't matter how much money we pump intp the NH it always seems to find its way to the fatcats that running it and not to patient care. And to add insult to injury, I have paid my National Insurance for over 50 years, and guess what, I'm not allowed to use their services because I choose to live abroad. Does that sound fare to you? Yes as you say it was revolutionary at the time, and a good idea, but unfortunately it is a system that has become grossly abused and needs a radical overhaul.

 

You also mention Universitys in the 60's, I tend to agree with you on this, where only highly intelligent youngsters went. Infact I never knew anybody that went to uni, but some-one once told me they knew some-one that had gone. It was so rare for anyone to go, it really meant something. However these days it would seem anybody that wants to go, goes, don't you think it makes going to uni rather meaninless these days?

 

ps, what have I wished for?

Well, well who would have thought it; we agree on somethings!

 

Its true but hat our returning heros after the war and the beaten down masses at home voted for a more egalitarian society. The NHS was one of the things which resulted. I fully agree that the NHS is now in a disgraceful state due to poor management ( and also PPI)

 

University tuition was fully funded and I benefitted from that. We used to have polytechnics and technical colleges but all that has been integrated and dumbed down.

 

Where we differ is that I don't blame the EU. I blame the Con Party and Islington champagne "faux socialists". Several EU countries have far better, happier, egalitarian societies than we do. 

 

You seem to desire unfettered Conservatism of the red in tooth and claw variety. Be careful with that; Its not what our fathers wanted....

[Srikcir]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Having not read the Foghorn Foundations I can't possibly comment, all I need is my own eyse and ears to see whats happening. Communism where everyone is equal, except some are more equal than others!

Socialism vs communism - useful discussion:

http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-socialism-and-communism-2/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/do-you-know-the-difference-between-a-communist-and-a-socialist-a6708086.html

 

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well, well who would have thought it; we agree on somethings!

 

Its true but hat our returning heros after the war and the beaten down masses at home voted for a more egalitarian society. The NHS was one of the things which resulted. I fully agree that the NHS is now in a disgraceful state due to poor management ( and also PPI)

 

University tuition was fully funded and I benefitted from that. We used to have polytechnics and technical colleges but all that has been integrated and dumbed down.

 

Where we differ is that I don't blame the EU. I blame the Con Party and Islington champagne "faux socialists". Several EU countries have far better, happier, egalitarian societies than we do. 

 

You seem to desire unfettered Conservatism of the red in tooth and claw variety. Be careful with that; Its not what our fathers wanted....

And for those Brexiteers that think Thatcher was wonderful, read this sobering assessment 

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/britain-gained-300billion-tax-north-6390332

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And for those Brexiteers that think Thatcher was wonderful, read this sobering assessment 

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/britain-gained-300billion-tax-north-6390332

Why are you singling out Brexiteers, are there no Thatcher supporters amongst the Remainers, or won't they admit it?

Edited May 1, 2017 by vogie

[Orac]

Why are you singling out Brexiteers, are there no Thatcher supporters amongst the Remainers, or won't they admit it?

I voted remain, am a big Thatcher fan and was a conservative party member for many years. Though the north sea oil piece is interesting it is a bit of a narrow focus to judge a PM on and had the feeling of a hind sight being used to promote a political agenda - SNP in this particular case.

Though Thatcher was by no means perfect she did have a clear vision of what she wanted to do with the UK and the drive to deliver on her ideals. The current PM on the other hand is nowhere near in the same league and is out to gain control by whatever means necessary with scant regard for what she actually believes is the right thing to do or any political ideology involved as can be seen by her support for the EU prior to the referendum.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

I voted remain, am a big Thatcher fan and was a conservative party member for many years. Though the north sea oil piece is interesting it is a bit of a narrow focus to judge a PM on and had the feeling of a hind sight being used to promote a political agenda - SNP in this particular case.

Though Thatcher was by no means perfect she did have a clear vision of what she wanted to do with the UK and the drive to deliver on her ideals. The current PM on the other hand is nowhere near in the same league and is out to gain control by whatever means necessary with scant regard for what she actually believes is the right thing to do or any political ideology involved as can be seen by her support for the EU prior to the referendum.

 

I honestly think it is too early to judge TM (but from where I'm sitting she seems to be doing ok), she has the hardest job a PM has ever faced since the last war, but for people to be calling her evil defies all logic. Lets be honest MT was not the most popular PM when she first came to power, but she soon prooved what a great and strong leader she was. I think TM will follow in MT footsteps and people need to forget their differences and get behind her to secure the best deal for the UK. 

[Orac]

I honestly think it is too early to judge TM (but from where I'm sitting she seems to be doing ok), she has the hardest job a PM has ever faced since the last war, but for people to be calling her evil defies all logic. Lets be honest MT was not the most popular PM when she first came to power, but she soon prooved what a great and strong leader she was. I think TM will follow in MT footsteps and people need to forget their differences and get behind her to secure the best deal for the UK. 

She is not evil, just has a poor track record of competence and integrity.

She was Home Secretary for many years and presided over one debacle after another whilst demonstrating appalling management over the UK Border Agency and immigration whilst using the EU as a scapegoat for her inability to run just a part of UK govt rather than the whole shooting match.

Her public statements supporting remaining in the EU prior to the referendum put her integrity on display - either she was lying then and seeking to mislead the UK public or she is using the brexit situation to further her own personal cause now despite not believing it is in the country's best interests.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

I would think that after 50 odd years the Findhorn Foundation has proved her wrong on that one, probably the most successful communist experiment of all time.

Its not concept of socialism that is the problem more to do with reality.

 

I followed the Findhorn Foundations website https://www.findhorn.org/about-us/

 

and while it is fine it really only refers to one small village in Scotland whereas socialism is for the Labour Party's version for the whole of the UK.

 

As an example from todays BBC News website http://www.bbc.com/news/education-39762499

 

Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to plug a £3bn black hole in school finances in England.

He hinted that he would use corporation tax to pay for the extra spending commitments but said specific details would be in Labour's manifesto.

 

It is fine to use the £3bn from corporation tax for school finances but what was the £3bn going to be used for in the first place and how will the Labour Party replace it with another £3bn.

 

Again http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39767961

 

Labour has promised a "consumer rights revolution" for renters in England if it wins the general election, with the introduction of new legal standards for rented homes.

Landlords who fail to meet the "tougher" minimum standards would face fines of up to £100,000, Labour said.

 

Jeremy Corbin and the Labour Party can promise anything they like in their manifesto as they know that they cannot win the election and so will not have to back up their words with action. Their words and promises sound great but what they seem to be short on is actually HOW they will raise the required funds to do it with.

 

I am not too impressed with the Tory party either but at this time, there only seems to be a choice of Tim but dim, Albert Steptoe or a Maggie Thatcher sound alike. The fringe parties, UKIP,  Greens, Monster Raving Looney party are a joke on society though UKIP did get us to Brexit in the first place. The LibDems under Tim but dim are well past their best before date and as for the SNP, who in their right mind would want a party which seems to want independence from the rest of the UK as the official opposition party?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Orac said:

 

I voted remain, am a big Thatcher fan and was a conservative party member for many years. Though the north sea oil piece is interesting it is a bit of a narrow focus to judge a PM on and had the feeling of a hind sight being used to promote a political agenda - SNP in this particular case.

Though Thatcher was by no means perfect she did have a clear vision of what she wanted to do with the UK and the drive to deliver on her ideals. The current PM on the other hand is nowhere near in the same league and is out to gain control by whatever means necessary with scant regard for what she actually believes is the right thing to do or any political ideology involved as can be seen by her support for the EU prior to the referendum.

 

Thatcher was consumed by monetarist dogma and game theory. She shut down mining, ship building and steel MUCH too quickly. OUR oil bonanza was wasted on dole money rather than investing in new technology based industries such as computing, digital electronics and semiconductors. What was Thatcher's clear view for the UK again? Oh, I remember: "There's no such thing as society". Well she delivered on that! Thanks!

[dick dasterdly]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Just another denial. Before going into Europe in 1973 the UK was a low wage , low regulation and low rights economy and if the UK heads back that way it will have absolutely nothing to do with brexit.

Really?  I'd argue the opposite.

 

Back in 1975/6 the UK was a reasonably high wage economy.  Hence the backlash against unions etc.

 

Nowadays (and for the last few decades) its been a low wage economy.