Gun Laws in Thailand

FritsSikkink · November 1, 2016

It is sad that a lot of people are so scared they don't feel save without their gun. Nice society you must live in.

blackcab · November 1, 2016

18 hours ago, zd1 said:

With guns though the only reason to own one is to shoot or kill another person or animal...

That's not quite true. I enjoy target shooting and have done so for years.

I do understand that there is an argument for hiring a firearm from the club, but to my mind that's the same as hiring a car: The hire company doesn't always have the model you want in stock, and it gets expensive if you do it regularly.

Speaking as someone who has shot at a range in Bangkok and who has hired firearms from the range, I have to say the firearms were of very poor quality. I didn't enjoy shooting them at all and I wouldn't return without my own gun.

zd1 · November 1, 2016

8 hours ago, Strange said:

Worst case scenario - Would you die to maintain this belief?

I mean, kill or be killed, I'm gonna kill.

I believe what you say here is probably what you have been told from a young age and have been brought up thinking in this way and your parents, grandparents and there parents and grandparents thought like this too, it isn't your fault it has been indoctrinated into your nation for several hundred years, and what I say will not change that but I am entitled to my opinion whether people agree or not.

I think part of this indoctrination process was to instil fear into the nation like the term kill or be killed it is meant to instil fear so that everyone goes out and buys a gun to make them feel safe from other people who have bought guns. The fact that if there were no guns then people wouldn't need guns is irrelevant really because the weapons manufacturers and there investors wouldn't make any money and I think here in lies the problem.

I personally don't live in fear of being shot or killed by anyone when my time is up its up, in Thailand over the last 20 odd years gun ownership has gone up and with that going up so has gun crime I think possibly that this is linked.

Strange · November 1, 2016

1 hour ago, zd1 said:

I believe what you say here is probably what you have been told from a young age and have been brought up thinking in this way and your parents, grandparents and there parents and grandparents thought like this too, it isn't your fault it has been indoctrinated into your nation for several hundred years, and what I say will not change that but I am entitled to my opinion whether people agree or not.

I think part of this indoctrination process was to instil fear into the nation like the term kill or be killed it is meant to instil fear so that everyone goes out and buys a gun to make them feel safe from other people who have bought guns. The fact that if there were no guns then people wouldn't need guns is irrelevant really because the weapons manufacturers and there investors wouldn't make any money and I think here in lies the problem.

I personally don't live in fear of being shot or killed by anyone when my time is up its up, in Thailand over the last 20 odd years gun ownership has gone up and with that going up so has gun crime I think possibly that this is linked.

You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion of your opinion is that you are way out there in la la land.

You never answered the question, but thats ok as I see you are just wigging around the question the best you can by deflecting and saying I'm 'indoctrinated' as well as my family.

Literally we are 100% normal people like you who work and have jobs and family and values, but own a pistol just in case. (sometimes a lot more cause its fun to shoot)

You are clearly missing the point as well, we don't have to meet 'force with equal force' meaning, I can still legally shoot someone for committing a 'forceable felony' in my home. They don't need to have a gun.

You seem to think that its a fair world where you can't shoot someone if they don't have a gun. This is not the case and personally I like this fact as I can assure you a thief/home invader must consider getting their ass shot off as well as getting arrested for their crime.

zd1 · November 1, 2016

10 minutes ago, Strange said:

You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion of your opinion is that you are way out there in la la land.

You never answered the question, but thats ok as I see you are just wigging around the question the best you can by deflecting and saying I'm 'indoctrinated' as well as my family.

Literally we are 100% normal people like you who work and have jobs and family and values, but own a pistol just in case. (sometimes a lot more cause its fun to shoot)

You are clearly missing the point as well, we don't have to meet 'force with equal force' meaning, I can still legally shoot someone for committing a 'forceable felony' in my home. They don't need to have a gun.

You seem to think that its a fair world where you can't shoot someone if they don't have a gun. This is not the case and personally I like this fact as I can assure you a thief/home invader must consider getting their ass shot off as well as getting arrested for their crime.

Fair enough your entitled to your opinion no offence taken and no offence intended on my part.

It isn't just you and your family indoctrinated into this thought of guns are good it is also the normal people of your nation, and i'm not saying that your all bad people in fact the majority of the American people are good people, but I do question your values in regards to guns.

I do realise that it isn't a fair world but I personally wouldn't want to shoot anybody whether they had a gun or not. I have never had a home invader or burgler maybe prospective home invaders thought I had nothing of value or maybe they saw me and thought that they don't fancy their chances with that, i'm not sure.

I have been to and lived in some quite dangerous places and in all my time I haven't needed a gun to protect myself even though I have had them pointed at me before, in fact I believe if I had a gun in these situations things may have worked out differently as I would have been perceived as more of a threat and then perhaps shot.

I don't live in fear when my time is up it's up I don't know what fate awaits me but I don't dwell on it either and in answer to your question kill or be killed it would really be down to the circumstances as there maybe more than them two options, no I don't want to die but I don't want to kill anybody either.

212Roger · November 1, 2016

On 10/30/2016 at 11:19 PM, joeyg said:

"

Number One is the world in unprovoked school shootings where psychos go berserk and kill innocent students, been going on for years now and no improvement

The only way to see that attitude without crying is sarcastically, unless you're American perhaps"

Never mind...

It's the psycho's fault; not the guns' fault. Pretty soon you'll blame the knife or the bomb.

Strange · November 1, 2016

9 minutes ago, zd1 said:

Fair enough your entitled to your opinion no offence taken and no offence intended on my part.

It isn't just you and your family indoctrinated into this thought of guns are good it is also the normal people of your nation, and i'm not saying that your all bad people in fact the majority of the American people are good people, but I do question your values in regards to guns.

You are blaming all americans for the actions of criminals. That is wrong.

You think we should take up the ideals of the UK or something? We don't want your ideals in regards to a helpless nanny state dependent on calling 999 and hiding. There is nothing to prove during a robbery or mugging or assault and no need to show how macho we are by going toe to toe with a person like that, especially in your own home.

Nobody is dwelling on anything you keep trying to paint a picture of fear, paranoia, indoctrination, and brainwashing. Just because someone owns a pistol just in case does not mean they are scared. Dude its like $300 bucks that might save your life one day, and if it doesn't, and you never have to use it, thats great too.

You can choose to believe what you want, but to me it sounds like the only one with any kind of fear in this conversation is you. Honest to god id be more nervous around a person using a grinder than a person with a legal firearm.

zd1 · November 1, 2016

2 hours ago, Strange said:

You are blaming all americans for the actions of criminals. That is wrong.

You think we should take up the ideals of the UK or something? We don't want your ideals in regards to a helpless nanny state dependent on calling 999 and hiding. There is nothing to prove during a robbery or mugging or assault and no need to show how macho we are by going toe to toe with a person like that, especially in your own home.

Nobody is dwelling on anything you keep trying to paint a picture of fear, paranoia, indoctrination, and brainwashing. Just because someone owns a pistol just in case does not mean they are scared. Dude its like $300 bucks that might save your life one day, and if it doesn't, and you never have to use it, thats great too.

You can choose to believe what you want, but to me it sounds like the only one with any kind of fear in this conversation is you. Honest to god id be more nervous around a person using a grinder than a person with a legal firearm.

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick, I do not blame all Americans for the actions of criminals, the fact is and yes it is a fact is that gun culture is part and parcel of modern day American culture and it has been indoctrinated into the entire nation for centuries.

For your information it is very easy to get a gun in the UK even though they are illegal to own unlicensed, do you honestly think that the people buying these guns in the UK are buying them for protection, I think you will find the ones buying them are actually criminals buying them with intent on using them for crimes.

I believe that the world would be a safer place with out guns or in fact any weapon designed for the purpose to kill or maim which is what guns are designed for. Guns were not designed to be fashion accessories or pieces of art to hang on your wall they are designed to kill.

In regards to power tools I have many, they were designed for a purpose and even though some power tools maybe dangerous if used incorrectly, take the grinder for instance I have a small one which is mainly used on metal and I have a much larger one with the diamond cutting blade which is used for cutting through masonry, neither have been designed to kill even though they could kill you if you didn't use it correctly.

As I stated previously I don't live in fear but I will concede that I am fearful of the way the world is going at the moment with wars here there and everywhere a lot of the time masked in the name of religion when what they are really about is money and power. In my utopian ideal I would like to see a peaceful world and for mankind to be more constructive rather than being destructive, building a better future for the next generation our children and not destroying each other.

Strange · November 1, 2016

13 minutes ago, zd1 said:

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick, I do not blame all Americans for the actions of criminals, the fact is and yes it is a fact is that gun culture is part and parcel of modern day American culture and it has been indoctrinated into the entire nation for centuries.

Man you got it all wrong. We are not indoctrinated, we created the ideals behind the 2nd Amendment it in like 1791 after giving you guys the boot in 1776. Its carried on from then, its not a government brainwashing program. You literally need to freshen up on history and the definition of your choice is words. Im not even sure how you can post such expert nonsense. You seem to think its all a big hoax and all Americans are having the wool pulled over their eyes.

I got news for you my friend, you are the one being misled. We know what we are doing and choose to do it and don't care what you guys think.

Its not "Americana" or "Culture" or "Novelty" its a right of the people just like free speech to defend them selves.

Look, I'm over it. Think what you want. You clearly want a nanny state where everything you don't like is 'banned' and the police and government are involved in every aspect of your life. Maybe it really is a British thing, I don't know, but really, we gave those ideals the boot centuries ago.

Honestly, this is no attack, but I believe you are very out of touch with the world, and your beliefs reflect that.

zd1 · November 2, 2016

17 hours ago, Strange said:

Man you got it all wrong. We are not indoctrinated, we created the ideals behind the 2nd Amendment it in like 1791 after giving you guys the boot in 1776. Its carried on from then, its not a government brainwashing program. You literally need to freshen up on history and the definition of your choice is words. Im not even sure how you can post such expert nonsense. You seem to think its all a big hoax and all Americans are having the wool pulled over their eyes.

I got news for you my friend, you are the one being misled. We know what we are doing and choose to do it and don't care what you guys think.

Its not "Americana" or "Culture" or "Novelty" its a right of the people just like free speech to defend them selves.

Look, I'm over it. Think what you want. You clearly want a nanny state where everything you don't like is 'banned' and the police and government are involved in every aspect of your life. Maybe it really is a British thing, I don't know, but really, we gave those ideals the boot centuries ago.

Honestly, this is no attack, but I believe you are very out of touch with the world, and your beliefs reflect that.

Ok I can see we aren't going to agree on this, but I will attempt to defend my use of words.

Indoctrinate by definition means to teach a person or group of people a set of beliefs that they accept uncritically, this has come straight out of a dictionary.

The ideals behind the 2nd amendment are a set of beliefs, the populous at the time liked these beliefs and accepted them uncritically. These beliefs were passed on through the generations hence the whole nation has been indoctrinated to believe that these are the right and proper ideals that should be as accepted now as they were 225 years ago.

I don't want a nanny state and if it was up to me very few things would be banned.

I'm not talking about the ideals you gave the boot to centuries ago, i'm talking about a new set of ideals, a set of ideals for the 21st century where we aren't killing ourselves, where people are building a better future for the next generation, a future without gun violence or war, a place were your kids can go to school without the threat of being shot by a dysfunctional classmate.

You may feel like i'm out of touch with the world, but the future looks bleak if we carry on as we have been.

MikeyIdea · November 2, 2016

19 hours ago, Strange said:

Its not "Americana" or "Culture" or "Novelty" its a right of the people just like free speech to defend them selves.

Interesting discussion strange and zd1, very interesting and well written

Strange, I have one comment to your choice of words above. It is not criticism but I'd just like to share the thoughts of many people in other countries that traditionally have been known to be "passive" non-violent. Sweden, Norway, Denmark are good examples

We (= not only me but a common perception in Scandinavian countries) have clearly seen that America has much much more gun related violence than most other western countries for a long time. I am Swedish and old enough to have seen the trend for the last 40 years by the way but the common perception goes further back than that

We have been sitting there looking at the violence in the US and thought: Oh, America is a developed country but it has so much gun violence. Then we thought: The American solution to the violence, get more guns to protect yourself..., that is only escalating the violence . And then we thought: I really hope it doesn't spread to the rest of the developed world. But it did of course

It's like America lead a trend having an obvious and expected result and the world was stupid enough to follow.

19 hours ago, Strange said:

its a right of the people just like free speech to defend them selves.

Many people actually think: If America hadn't escalated the gun related violence, then we wouldn't have had as much of it here today. And many also think: What is happening today in so many countries is actually happening because of a deliberate decision (in America)

Gary A · November 2, 2016

If you were a criminal and you saw a nice home out in the boonies with no close neighbors, wouldn't that be an easy target? Why do you think these country homes are left alone? These country homes have a loaded gun or guns within easy reach. The children know that those guns are loaded and they know how to safely use them.

Cities with strict gun control laws are the prime targets for home invasions. Even lunatic dopers have a fear of being shot.

zd1 · November 2, 2016

12 minutes ago, Gary A said:

If you were a criminal and you saw a nice home out in the boonies with no close neighbors, wouldn't that be an easy target? Why do you think these country homes are left alone? These country homes have a loaded gun or guns within easy reach. The children know that those guns are loaded and they know how to safely use them.

Cities with strict gun control laws are the prime targets for home invasions. Even lunatic dopers have a fear of being shot.

That isn't really true I have a nice country home in the middle of Wales 7 miles from the nearest town, I don't have any guns in the house and I have never been targeted by criminals even though I maybe seen as an easy target.

I also have a flat in London which also hasn't been burgled, London has strict gun laws but if you wanted to purchase a gun you would find it surprisingly easy to do, you would have to deal with criminals in order to purchase the gun but it is far from impossible to do so.

Do you honestly think that the people who purchase guns from criminals in London are using these guns for defence, I don't think so I think they are purchasing these guns to commit crimes.

I found an interesting article about crime rates in the US compared to the UK and have quoted it below the burglary rates for the US are higher so the having a gun argument doesn't prevent burglaries, also the murder rate is much higher I wonder if guns has much to do about this.

The robbery rates were similar between the two countries:

U.S. 2009 robbery rate: 133 per 100,000.

U.K. 2009 robbery rate: 164 per 100,000.

The burglary rates were far higher in the U.S.:

U.S. 2009 burglary rate: 716.3 per 100,000

U.K. 2009 burglary rate: 523 per 100,000.

And in the U.S., you were nearly four times as likely to be murdered:

U.S. 2009 murder rate: 5 per 100,000.

U.K. 2009 murder rate: 1.49 per 100,000.

So far, it looks as if one has a much higher chance of getting burgled and killed in the U.S. than in the U.K.

MikeyIdea · November 2, 2016

3 hours ago, Gary A said:

Cities with strict gun control laws are the prime targets for home invasions. Even lunatic dopers have a fear of being shot

Cities with strict gun control have less burglaries?

The information I have is that burglary is linked to unemployment, poverty, misery and the likes. I'd like to read statistics proving that relaxed gun control = more guns in cities is reducing burglaries in those cities where we also cannot see the other links I mentioned. I'm open and want to know, please show me

I have never even come across an article suggesting that and backing it up with statistics

212Roger · November 2, 2016

The demographics of Chicago and Houston are virtually identical. Same size population, same percentage of Blacks and Hispanics. One main difference is the following: No restrictive gun laws in Houston, while in Chicago guns are unlawful to possess. Ergo, the city of Houston has very little gun crimes and we all know the outrageous gun crimes committed in the city of Chicago. Draw your own conclusions...

Strange · November 2, 2016

3 hours ago, zd1 said:

London has strict gun laws but if you wanted to purchase a gun you would find it surprisingly easy to do, you would have to deal with criminals in order to purchase the gun but it is far from impossible to do so.

You are missing the point.

Nobody gives a shit about buying an illegal gun.

UK you can probably buy some kind of gun legally but I'm sure there are stipulations and safe keeping nonsense and its a novelty. You can buy a legal gun, you can buy a legal knife, you can buy a legal baseball bat, frying pan, whatever.

But you can't defend yourself with it legally and free from prosecution like we can in the USA.

Who gives a shit about owning a gun if the only thing you can do with it is take it under lock and key to a range and burn off a few rounds that cost like $5 each.

Its not about 'having a gun' its about being able to protect yourself FREE from prosecution.

Strange · November 2, 2016

43 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

Cities with strict gun control have less burglaries?

The information I have is that burglary is linked to unemployment, poverty, misery and the likes. I'd like to read statistics proving that relaxed gun control = more guns in cities is reducing burglaries in those cities where we also cannot see the other links I mentioned. I'm open and want to know, please show me

I have never even come across an article suggesting that and backing it up with statistics

Unlike your homeland, our cities are massive (unlike your villages) and have cheap, low income housing all the way up to richie-rich places, all under the same city name.

The statistics you are talking about are illuminating the perpetrators of the crimes and their socio-economic standing.

Have a look at the city of Chicago. One of the most violent cities, with some of the most strict gun legislation out there.

Go look through youtube about it. Its a rabbit hole.

Strange · November 2, 2016

4 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

We (= not only me but a common perception in Scandinavian countries) have clearly seen that America has much much more gun related violence than most other western countries for a long time. I am Swedish and old enough to have seen the trend for the last 40 years by the way but the common perception goes further back than that

And clearly you blame guns for this. The regular everyday people in the USA with a gun or 2 don't commit crimes. Convicted Felons are banned for life from buying and owning guns and ammunition. Criminals commit these crimes. Even if you ban guns today, violent people are still there, still committing crimes, guns will come from south of the border, and everyday people will be helpless. We are not Scandinavian, you can't compare.

4 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

Then we thought: The American solution to the violence, get more guns to protect yourself..., that is only escalating the violence

Escalating the violence..... Just thinking about this makes me cringe. Criminals won't stop, but we should lay down?

We are not Norway or the UK. Its easy to armchair coach the television like you know the solution and we are all retarded, but its not like that. It does not work that way.

And your 'thoughts' are kinda weird as the 2nd amendment and guns have been around for hundreds of years so there was no 'enlightenment' or 'solution' to the violence.

Strange · November 2, 2016

4 hours ago, zd1 said:

The robbery rates were similar between the two countries:

U.S. 2009 robbery rate: 133 per 100,000.

U.K. 2009 robbery rate: 164 per 100,000.

The burglary rates were far higher in the U.S.:

U.S. 2009 burglary rate: 716.3 per 100,000

U.K. 2009 burglary rate: 523 per 100,000.

And in the U.S., you were nearly four times as likely to be murdered:

U.S. 2009 murder rate: 5 per 100,000.

U.K. 2009 murder rate: 1.49 per 100,000.

So far, it looks as if one has a much higher chance of getting burgled and killed in the U.S. than in the U.K.

I mean, just going off your figures, comparing us to uk, and considering we have like 300,000,000 firearms floating around (literally) I think we are doing a damn fine job balancing individual freedom vs a ban happy nanny state.

Plus, legally, and literally, I can defend myself, my home, and my vehicle, up to deadly force, free from prosecution, for any of those crimes, without a duty to retreat or warn an intruder. My state is florida.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/orlando-criminal-defense-services/analysis-of-florida-new-self-defense-law.html

Quote

Florida Statute 776.013 states that a person defending their home or occupied vehicle from an "unlawful" forceful entry or attempted forceful entry by another may use deadly force to stop the invasion or attempted invasion of the property. In such instances they need not retreat before using deadly force, they need not warn the intruder of their intent to shoot, and there is an absolute presumption that the person attempting the entry was doing so with the intent to commit a violent act (i.e. "forcible felony"), and that the defender is presumed to be acting in reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself. In other words – no arrest or prosecution is technically "legal" if someone without a right of entry or ownership is trying to break in, and you shoot them.

So yeah, Im glad that this should be a consideration for a potential home invader. Nobody wants to get dead over a TV or some jewelry.

pigeonjake · November 2, 2016

Thought this was about Thai gun laws?

zd1 · November 3, 2016

18 hours ago, Strange said:

UK you can probably buy some kind of gun legally but I'm sure there are stipulations and safe keeping nonsense and its a novelty.

I find it quite irresponsible that you think the safe keeping of a dangerous weapon nonsense. I found an article written by an American which states in 2015 more people killed by toddlers than terrorists I will post it below for you

In the US in 2015, more people were shot and killed by toddlers than by terrorists. In 2013, the New York Times reported on children shot by other children: “Children shot accidentally – usually by other children – are collateral casualties of the accessibility of guns in America, their deaths all the more devastating for being eminently preventable.”

And I’m supposed to believe that frightened Syrian refugees – or whomever becomes the next rightwing scapegoat du jour – are the real threat to my children? I’m supposed to be afraid of sharks? Heavy metal music? Violent video games? Horse meat in my hamburger patties?

States with more guns have more gun deaths. Keeping a gun in your house increases your chances of accidental death by shooting, but does not make you safer. A woman’s chance of being murdered by an abusive partner increases fivefold if the partner has access to a gun. “Good guys with guns” are a fantasy. How much longer will we keep participating in this great collective lie that deadly weapons keep us safe?

The accidental shooting of Jamie Gilt is the object lesson that my absurd nation deserves. When even supposed gun safety experts cannot keep themselves safe from their own toddlers, we should take that as an unequivocal reminder that guns are inherently dangerous. They are exploding projectile machines designed specifically for killing. And that’s not bleeding-heart hyperbole – it’s the explicit reason why many people are drawn to them. Cowboy games. Vigilante justice. Power.

America does not get to claim some hypercivilised global high ground when we foster – legislatively and culturally – a system in which incidents such as Gilt’s are not just possible, but inevitable.

16 hours ago, Strange said:

I mean, just going off your figures, comparing us to uk, and considering we have like 300,000,000 firearms floating around (literally) I think we are doing a damn fine job balancing individual freedom vs a ban happy nanny state.

Nearly 4 times more likely to be murdered you think is a damn fine job, the fact that you have literally 300 million fire arms floating around contributes to this.

16 hours ago, Strange said:

Plus, legally, and literally, I can defend myself, my home, and my vehicle, up to deadly force, free from prosecution, for any of those crimes, without a duty to retreat or warn an intruder. My state is florida.

I personally think this law is a bit ambiguous and could easily be abused, for instance somebody murders somebody then claims that the victim was trying to break into their house or car, the murderer is free from prosecution because he says he was defending his property, how do the police know what the truth is, they don't as the victim is unable to defend himself when he is dead so they believe the murderer and case closed. Just an example of something that could actually happen.

Strange · November 3, 2016

5 hours ago, zd1 said:

I find it quite irresponsible that you think the safe keeping of a dangerous weapon nonsense. I found an article written by an American which states in 2015 more people killed by toddlers than terrorists I will post it below for you

*Sigh*

Im not talking about keeping a firearm safe from toddlers. Im talking about your government dictating how all firearms should be kept and the intent is for them to never be used unless 'hunting' or 'target' shooting. Keeping firearms under lock and key up until you can be 'supervised' unlocking the gun for target shooting. It makes the whole thing pointless unless you just want to plink targets.

An adult that leaves a firearm accessible to a child, and the child shoots themself or another, is liable for manslaughter or worse. I mean, there is plenty of legislation regarding this, but its legislation in regards to an 'after the fact' instance. If a kid shoots himself or another, not only do you have to deal with that tragedy, but you might have to deal with it in jail for manslaughter.

Its the way the law is written. Its not dictated how you handle them. Its dictated what will happen to you if something bad does happen.

5 hours ago, zd1 said:

Nearly 4 times more likely to be murdered you think is a damn fine job, the fact that you have literally 300 million fire arms floating around contributes to this.

You are not 4x more likely to be murdered in the USA than the UK (by your statistics) The 'murder' statistics you list include all murders. A huge amount of those statistics are gang on gang killings. Cartel killings. All kinds of murder that an innocent person has nothing to do with. Statistics are misleading and yes, I stand by my statement.

I will, however, give you ALOT of credit for at least looking at your own country first, then comparing to the US. A lot will not do this and blindly declare that the UK is perfect without any reflection whatsoever.

5 hours ago, zd1 said:

I personally think this law is a bit ambiguous and could easily be abused, for instance somebody murders somebody then claims that the victim was trying to break into their house or car, the murderer is free from prosecution because he says he was defending his property, how do the police know what the truth is, they don't as the victim is unable to defend himself when he is dead so they believe the murderer and case closed. Just an example of something that could actually happen.

What you 'personally think' means nothing.

Honestly and objectively, walk this through in your head.

In florida your house is your 'castle' and your car (while you are in it, driving around in the state) is an extension of your 'castle'.

Objectively, how can you lie and commit murder? Give me a scenario please and Ill tell you how it happens in the real world. Remember, just because you will not be arrested, does not mean that your case will not be investigated.

Strange · November 3, 2016

5 hours ago, zd1 said:

Keeping a gun in your house increases your chances of accidental death by shooting, but does not make you safer.

On what planet does this even make sense? Do you think that a gun will just turn into a grenade and kill people?

Dont play with fire. Dont play with electricity. Dont play with a gun. We are capable if this concept homie. We don't need "mommy" (UK Gov) to ban everything.

zd1 · November 3, 2016

2 hours ago, Strange said:

On what planet does this even make sense? Do you think that a gun will just turn into a grenade and kill people?

Of course I don't think a gun will turn itself into a hand grenade and kill people, I just quoted an article written by an American that states keeping a gun in your house increases your chances of accidental death by shooting. This makes perfect sense to me because if there wasn't a gun in your house the chances of getting accidentally shot and killed would be reduced to zero.

3 hours ago, Strange said:

Im not talking about keeping a firearm safe from toddlers. Im talking about your government dictating how all firearms should be kept and the intent is for them to never be used unless 'hunting' or 'target' shooting. Keeping firearms under lock and key up until you can be 'supervised' unlocking the gun for target shooting. It makes the whole thing pointless unless you just want to plink targets.

I think it is only responsible to keep a firearm safe from toddlers it's a recipe for disaster to just leave loaded firearms around young kids and toddlers. Really it should be that every owner of a firearm should know where their firearm is at all times especially around kids.

Your last sentence is also rather worrying, what else are you using your gun for if not for hunting and target shooting, you state that is makes it kind of pointless unless you just want to plink targets, really what else do you use it for?

3 hours ago, Strange said:

I will, however, give you ALOT of credit for at least looking at your own country first, then comparing to the US. A lot will not do this and blindly declare that the UK is perfect without any reflection whatsoever.

Thank you, I don't live in a bubble where I think the UK is perfect, it isn't, it is far from perfect and isn't get any better and it is slowly or actually not that slowly going down the pan.

I realise my views are not that of everybody especially people who come from countries where guns are an acceptable part life after all they have been brought up around them and probably have the same views as you.

I stand by what I believe and hope that one day there are no guns, no weapons of mass destruction and no wars, and that mankind are building a future rather than destroying it after all people are stronger together. I don't think this will happen in my lifetime but it is a dream.

MikeyIdea · November 4, 2016

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 10:59 PM, 212Roger said:

The demographics of Chicago and Houston are virtually identical. Same size population, same percentage of Blacks and Hispanics. One main difference is the following: No restrictive gun laws in Houston, while in Chicago guns are unlawful to possess. Ergo, the city of Houston has very little gun crimes and we all know the outrageous gun crimes committed in the city of Chicago. Draw your own conclusions...

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 11:50 PM, Strange said:

Unlike your homeland, our cities are massive (unlike your villages) and have cheap, low income housing all the way up to richie-rich places, all under the same city name.

The statistics you are talking about are illuminating the perpetrators of the crimes and their socio-economic standing.

Have a look at the city of Chicago. One of the most violent cities, with some of the most strict gun legislation out there.

Go look through youtube about it. Its a rabbit hole.

Actually, you are both supporting my statement that guns don't matter by suggesting to compare Houston and Chicago

http://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/texas/houston:

The unemployment rate in Houston, Texas, is 4.70%, with job growth of 2.96%

http://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/illinois/chicago

The unemployment rate in Chicago, Illinois, is 8.40%, with job growth of 0.85%

Thank You

212Roger · November 4, 2016

1 minute ago, MikeyIdea said:

Actually, you are supporting my statement that guns don't matter by suggesting to compare Houston and Chicago

http://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/texas/houston:

The unemployment rate in Houston, Texas, is 4.70%, with job growth of 2.96%

http://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/illinois/chicago

The unemployment rate in Chicago, Illinois, is 8.40%, with job growth of 0.85%

Thank You

I agree, "guns don't matter." So, why mess/infringe with the Second Amendment. The more guns law abiding citizens have the better to defend themselves against the criminals who will always have guns, legally or illegally. Don't forget that the main reason our Founding Fathers gave us the Second Amendment; it was for the people to protect themselves against their own government!

MikeyIdea · November 4, 2016

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 0:05 AM, Strange said:

And clearly you blame guns for this.

Hi Strange,

Actually I don't. I have worked for the same American multi-national in Bangkok for the last 19 years and I have had a lot of American friends over the years. Most of them are great.

It's just that I know that many Americans are quite unaware of how the rest of the world sees them and I just wanted to convey that message

That is all

Ahab · November 4, 2016

Guns are like fire extinguishers, you should know how to properly operate them, and hope you never have to use them for their intended purposes.

Yes I am an American, and I have owned firearms legally most of my adult life. I have never had to take my guns out of the gun safe beside my bed for anything but cleaning and going to the target range. I hope this is the only use I will ever have for them.

My wife will likely own a firearm when we move to Thailand (it is legal for her), and it is very likely that this firearm will spend most of it's life in a gun safe. There are a bunch of legal guns and law abiding gun owners in the United States, if it was really a problem of legal ownership everyone would know it.

I am aware of how the rest of the world view Americans and the gun issue, but does the rest of the world realize just how crazy stripping the right of self defense from citizens is? Or maybe you just do not care about the right to self defense, luckily Thailand respects its citizens enough that they are given the right to own a fire arm for self defense.

MikeyIdea · November 4, 2016

9 hours ago, 212Roger said:

I agree, "guns don't matter." So, why mess/infringe with the Second Amendment. The more guns law abiding citizens have the better to defend themselves against the criminals who will always have guns, legally or illegally. Don't forget that the main reason our Founding Fathers gave us the Second Amendment; it was for the people to protect themselves against their own government!

I am glad that you agree that guns don't matter to reduce burglaries

The only thing left is to clear then is if more guns increase violence and the severity of violence. What is your opinion there?

Strange · November 4, 2016

9 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

It's just that I know that many Americans are quite unaware of how the rest of the world sees them and I just wanted to convey that message

So you don't care about whats going on in the USA you just want to push your simple minded judgement onto others.

Got it.

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