Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[jimmyyy]

Veterans affairs, military retirement.  I am to young for social security.

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Can I ask what country gives a pension of over 100,000 a year ?

Many people I know have pensions above this.  From both public and private organizations.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, digibum said:

 

 

 

Keep in mind that that Thai making that 18,000 baht a month is not likely living on their own.  If they aren't living with their parent's they're sharing a small, dump of an apartment, with no air-con.  

 

So, let's quit comparing the 65K or even the 100K with what a typical Thai might make because the Thai government isn't allowing people to come to Thailand on retirement visas and shack up 5 geezers to a room, sweating it out like pigs, until they croak.  

 

That's not the intent of allowing people to retire to your country.  Generally countries attempt to attract wealthier retirees who will spend an above average amount of money on housing, food, and entertainment.  And if Thailand wasn't so short-sighted, they would allow them to invest in local investment products easily so as to pump cash into the local economy.  

 

 

 

I'm not necessarily trying to compare the 65/100k against the average Thai income directly but there has to be a point of reference somewhere that allows us to see why it's the number that it is and that's just one of those references.

 

But since you raised it: we've read of many reports of farangs in Thailand over the years, living on budgets that are close to that 18k a month figure. Doubtless there are those who continue to get by at that level, particularly those who are married and living in rural villages so yes, the Thai government does allow it. Your point however about wanting to attract wealthy people is well taken, wanting to and being able to are however very different things.

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

There are other posts saying the SS pension comes nowhere near that. I presume you are talking about a private investment income rather than a state pension.

SS is just one type of pension.  There are many others.  I believe the max SS payout is around $2,000 per month.

[mstevens]

2 hours ago, anotheruser said:

 

Who are we to argue? It is an amount and they are adjusting for inlfation. How long ago was the 65,000 limit set? It no longer holds true.

 

Yep, this point is relevant.  Sure, some might feel the new financial requirements are harsh but they've been in place for many years so they had to go up at some point.

[digibum]

6 minutes ago, tj916 said:

 

Are you seriously telling me that you cannot have a very good life in Thailand on

 

£27000 per  year.

 

 

 

Yes you can, but that's somewhat the crux of this thread, isn't it?  I would never retire on $3K a month.  I would keep working and saving and investing.  

 

What happens if Thailand one day says, "Foreigners get out!"  If you're planning your entire retirement around the cost of living in a quasi third world country, god help you.  

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, digibum said:

 

 

None (that I know of) but you're aware you're supposed to take care of your own financial needs in retirements, right?  It's not all about what the government gives you.  That's supposed to be one part of your overall retirement strategy.  

 

Even saving a modest amount over 40 years, due to compounding, will be a fairly sizable sum of money at 60 or 65.  

 

If your retirement strategy was to not save anything for 40 years and then live off a government check in a third-world country, uhm, you might want to rethink that strategy.  

 

 

apparently the average UK household has very little discretionary money left over at the end of the month, even a 1% rise in rates could make hundreds of thousands homeless, welcome to the real world. My daughter and her husband, one child, both qualified people in Germany find it tough to get through the month, let alone save. Living standards have fallen since i last worked (12 years ago) mostly due to excessive rents and the high cost of property 

[scubascuba3]

Long term tourist visa or new retirement visa?
Is this a new long term visa i.e similar to an elite visa or is this the new requirements for a retirement visa?
This is the question that is on everyones minds.
From reading all the media reports this is a new visa aimed at people wanting to come to Thailand for medical operation but 10 years to have an operation seems very long. Reading the Thai media there was only a paragraph of information given out on the new visa. A detailed report was not published and an implementation date not given. Only the tourist visa fee's will be halved from 2,000 baht to 1,000 baht from Dec 1 for 3 months.
Like many posters before it is wait and see time. If this is the new requirement for a retirement visa then this is very worrying. Instead of 800,000 baht you will now have to have 3,000,000 baht in your bank and premium health insurance. Let's hope for some concrete news on this new long term visa from inmigration soon.

Why premium health insurance? If need be someone could get the cheapest one available (with $10k cover) and no pre-existing conditions.

[scubascuba3]

you could reach that in Germany with a state pension coupled with a firms pension

Could do it in the UK easy too with a private pension.

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, tj916 said:

 

Are you seriously telling me that you cannot have a very good life in Thailand on

 

£27000 per  year.

 

 

 

You can have a great life on that amount or less, but anyone on a state pension cannot show that income.

 

[mstevens]

2 hours ago, tonray said:

All those poor Thai girls are now going to have to chase 'skint' backpackers on tourist visas as the stable older gentlemen stop coming here. Society is going to get a big shock. I am going to have the 'talk' with the girl soon if we find out the details of this new program. I will NEVER leave 3 million baht in a Thai bank, NEVER.

 

The only "stable older gentleman" who will be leaving will be the ones without the money to meet the new requirements, hence I hardly think the ladies will be missing out!

[thailand49]

Not really that tough?  For those who are now living here and doing one yearly it can be a benefit depends on how you look at things particularly how much you want to put out front?

For the last ten years I've been doing the extension to be honest in Chon Buri, they are so much faster now in terms of wait.  90 days is a breeze at times no more than 10 minutes. The ride take longer to get there?

Right now, the standard is 60,000 per month, we are talking 40,000 more. I do understand that might be outreach to some but for me I'm getting well over that amount now. Use that sole method instead of a Band account.  I just do not trust the Banks here with my money. Place enough just for a small emergency.

As for insurance that is a bigger roadblock for many whether the standard is 50 plus,  there are guys at that age here look like they might drop dead in a minute. And 60 plus nearly impossible to obtain a policy. I have one with AXA, for 1,5 million so should have no problem there.

The only question is the amount you pay for the 10 years,  currently 1900 X 12 = 22,800 per year or 5 years  11,400. Your Multi Entry still 1,000 a pop or 3800?

 

Based on what was reported not really impossible?

 

[ignis]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

You can have a great life on that amount or less, but anyone on a state pension cannot show that income.

 

 

need something like 200 + baht to the £

[mstevens]

2 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

Wow you Americans must all be rich. In my country a pension of 3000 USD or in Euros 2823 is well well above average. In fact in the Netherlands the average wage is probably in the 2200 euro range, give or take. Now even IF someone waits until they are 65, the most they can hope to get is about 1800 euro maybe a hundred more if they are lucky.

 

And now Thailand is claiming that someone with that disposable income in the Netherlands could not easily live of that same money in Thailand. Can I have what these people are smoking please ?

 

Thailand is not saying that you can't easily live in Thailand on that amount of money, rather it is saying that it does not want someone who has that amount of money.  Big difference.

[digibum]

9 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

Veterans affairs, military retirement.  I am to young for social security.

 

 

Yes, the old triple dip strategy.  Twenty year military career, retire with full benefits.  Twenty year local or federal government job, retire with full benefits.  Plus social security when you really do retire.  Bing, bing, bing.  

 

Forty years working, three pensions, you should be making well over $3,000 a month.  If you were even slightly financially responsible you bought a house that is now paid off, sacked away a little in a 401K or IRA tax-deferred savings account, and between the equity in your home and 40 years of compounded returns in your retirement savings accounts, I can't see how you don't have $250,000 - $300,000 minimum in semi-liquid capital which should return $20,000 - $24,000 a year at an 8% rate of return which is roughly $2,000 a month just on that.  

 

So there's $5,000 a month in retirement income from someone who never made a lot of money and is not rich.  

 

But how many posts do you see like this vs. how many threads do you see of people trying to retire to Thailand by the time they're 40?  They're trying to save up just enough cash (or living off grandpa's inheritance or whatever) to make it until the government checks start coming in assuming that the cost of living will remain low for the next 20 years?  

 

 

 

[BlindMagician]

So it's a five year visa then.

[Peterw42]

19 minutes ago, tuktuktuk said:

Let's face it. No country wants immigrants; especially if they're coming because they can't afford to live in their home country. $3,000/month?  That's poverty even in the poorest neighborhoods in the USA. 

 

For most, thats the whole point of retiring in Thailand, its cheaper than home. A better life on a fixed income.

$3000 a month may be poverty in USA, here its more than most middle class Thais earn. Most counties would welcome immigrants with an income greater most of their population.

[DavisH]

Huh...the OP makes it sound like a positive thing. Yet I would wager most pensioners here on the current retirement visa could not plonk down a spare 3M and most normal pensions will be much less than 100K a month. This looks like a scheme to have only living here have enough funds when they get sick. Perhaps there has been a big problem of the elderly not having enough insurance and Thai hospitals having to cover the costs. I don't see it as anything to do with medical tourism - there's much better and free health cover for Australians, back home, for example. This will have a huge impact on many current retirees....many of whom will find it difficult to return home for various reasons.  

[moojar]

I haven't retired / moved to Thailand yet, but am / was planning to in a couple of years time.  And my (Thai) wife and I were discussing the current retirement visa just yesterday on our evening walk.  

 

I said to her, who knows what "the generals" will do in the future, it would not surprise me if they made it a lot harder for men married to Isaan women to live there, because I'm sure they think that these men are giving people in Isaan ideas.  (My wife has some 'yellow' friends, and their level of "Thaksin paranoia" is just astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.)  

 

Well, I hope I am just being paranoid, but if these reported 10 year requirements replace the current arrangements they are going to force a lot of Isaan retirees out. 

   

[digibum]

14 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

apparently the average UK household has very little discretionary money left over at the end of the month, even a 1% rise in rates could make hundreds of thousands homeless, welcome to the real world. My daughter and her husband, one child, both qualified people in Germany find it tough to get through the month, let alone save. Living standards have fallen since i last worked (12 years ago) mostly due to excessive rents and the high cost of property 

 

Yes, they have fallen.  Yet Apple still sells a boatload of iPhones.  

 

I'll take a rough guess at your age based on what you've said so far.  We grew up in a much more prosperous time.  Times are tough right now.  Yet, I see so many people living like they aren't.  Instead of saving and investing they spend everything on short-term gratification toys like iPhones and eating out.

 

Hey, when I was growing up, I thought the government would be there for me when I retired.  But I never counted on it.  I always sacked away money thinking, "What if they don't?"  

 

Nowadays, kids growing up should be assuming the government won't be there for them when they retire.  And yet they're still not saving.  They're still living in places they can't afford, driving cars they can't afford, and living billing cycle to billing cycle.  

 

 

 

 

[boomerangutang]

8 hours ago, oldsailor35 said:

Oh dear !  Yet another "barstool bombadier"  who's life is obviously built around Bar girls and beer !

 

Bar girls aren't as interested in farang who speak Thai.  It's the guys who are just off the boat who are the easier marks.

 

but back on topic: I read the first half of posts, and there seem to be two slices to this loaf:  One says the new elitist plan will replace the current annual renewal.  The other slice claims it's an add-on option.  

 

Also, the various articles say a 5-year visa, renewable once = 10 years.  Does that mean after 10 years, your time is up, and you're shipped out?  Incidentally, Thai banks will love this new deal; they take in truckloads of farang money and only pay out about 1%, while concurrently loaning the same money out to their buddies (and Thai VIP's) for the current loan rate .....is it 9% now?   It's similar to US banks, when the bottom fell out in 2008; the US feds shoveled money in their laps for near zero % and told them to loan the money out (6 to 10 times over), to schmucks like us for 10% or whatever the rate was then.   In sum:  Government buttering bank managers' bread - and there's surely reciprocating gifts going back the other way on the conveyor belt.

[nasa123]

13 hours ago, Crossy said:

It would be really nice to only have to visit immigration every 5 years, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

Are they just going to "announce" the ThailandElite scheme?

 

Sorry but you most still report to Immigration every 90 days Crossy.

Edited November 23, 2016 by nasa123

[elgenon]

13 hours ago, acid thunder said:

 

The Elite card would appear to be a walk in the park compared to this 'concession'.

 

 

Don't you have to pay for an Elite visa? Seems like putting money in the bank is cheaper, no? You keep the money and get interest.

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, nasa123 said:

Sorry but you most still report to Immigration every 90 days Crossy.

 

Indeed, but I don't visit immigration to report.

 

Sadly there's zero meat on the bones of the reports as to what exactly this visa is and who are the targets.

[digibum]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

For most, thats the whole point of retiring in Thailand, its cheaper than home. A better life on a fixed income.

$3000 a month may be poverty in USA, here its more than most middle class Thais earn. Most counties would welcome immigrants with an income greater most of their population.

 

Well, then all of those folks should go to those countries and quit complaining about Thailand's choice to not want those people.  

 

I really never get it about people in Thailand.  They move to this country that is corrupt to the core.  Xenophobic.  Politically unstable.  Doesn't think twice about fleecing tourists.  

 

Yet, they always seem surprised when Thailand changes a law that impacts them.  There is absolutely nobody who should think that they have a long-term future in Thailand.  You may have been in Thailand a long time but you're only a resident of Thailand until the government decides you aren't.  And there's not a damn thing you can do about it.  

 

Accept those rules and enjoy the ride for as long as you're allowed on or don't move to Thailand.  Pretty simple.  

 

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

 

Yes, the old triple dip strategy.  Twenty year military career, retire with full benefits.  Twenty year local or federal government job, retire with full benefits.  Plus social security when you really do retire.  Bing, bing, bing.  

 

Forty years working, three pensions, you should be making well over $3,000 a month.  If you were even slightly financially responsible you bought a house that is now paid off, sacked away a little in a 401K or IRA tax-deferred savings account, and between the equity in your home and 40 years of compounded returns in your retirement savings accounts, I can't see how you don't have $250,000 - $300,000 minimum in semi-liquid capital which should return $20,000 - $24,000 a year at an 8% rate of return which is roughly $2,000 a month just on that.  

 

So there's $5,000 a month in retirement income from someone who never made a lot of money and is not rich.  

 

But how many posts do you see like this vs. how many threads do you see of people trying to retire to Thailand by the time they're 40?  They're trying to save up just enough cash (or living off grandpa's inheritance or whatever) to make it until the government checks start coming in assuming that the cost of living will remain low for the next 20 years?  

 

 

 

 

I'm certain you will find that resident expat thinking changes hugely over say a fifteen year period of living here. Whilst what you've set out above makes sense to most people and many of us did start out with large sums fifteen years ago, unforeseen events plus changed lifestyles means that many do not not have as much money left as expected at the outset. I think also that most would agree that the past ten years of extremely low interest rates and the global financial crisis has had a negative effect on many retirees, not just expats in Thailand. So yes, it's great to enter into retirement using the criteria you've set out but even that doesn't guarantee that everyone will make it through to the finish line in tact financially and able to make massive adjustments late in life.

[williamgeorgeallen]

this was last in the news november last year. has not got very far in the last year infact it is in the same place as last year.

[digibum]

12 minutes ago, moojar said:

I haven't retired / moved to Thailand yet, but am / was planning to in a couple of years time.  And my (Thai) wife and I were discussing the current retirement visa just yesterday on our evening walk.  

 

I said to her, who knows what "the generals" will do in the future, it would not surprise me if they made it a lot harder for men married to Isaan women to live there, because I'm sure they think that these men are giving people in Isaan ideas.  (My wife has some 'yellow' friends, and their level of "Thaksin paranoia" is just astonishing. Absolutely astonishing.)  

 

Well, I hope I am just being paranoid, but if these reported 10 year requirements replace the current arrangements they are going to force a lot of Isaan retirees out. 

   

 

Not that I think it would happen as you've stated but I think you're forgetting about the fact that Issan would then be littered with Thai women who had suddenly come into a considerable amount of wealth.  Husbands forced out of the country, wife sitting on a multi-million baht house that they could then find some reason to take from her.    

[maoro2013]

Sounds a bit useless to me, just more money in the bank account, or income, and requiring certain medical insurance.

 

Easy enough to do annual extensions. 90 day reporting still required.

 

I don't see any real benefit.

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

this was last in the news november last year. has not got very far in the last year infact it is in the same place as last year.

 

Wasn't it being '"mulled" last year, it is "approved" this year. Although exactly what has been approved is unclear.

 

Maybe "clarification" will be next year.