The correct pronunciation of this city

[bkk6060]

So, I have confirmed this from ever Thai person I have asked. They actually don't like it.

But, so many ex-pats mispronounce the name of this city.

Even the TV announcers, long time ex-pats, etc.

 

It is properly pronounced : Paw-te-yah

It is not Pat-t-a.

 

Big difference,

Just saying.......

[moonseeker]

Thank you for the enlightenment, so early in the year. Language might be a factor in pronunciation. Or like so many, just call it paradise (lost). Regards. MS>

[pegman]

Thais pronounce it Pat-ti-yah

[muzmurray]

15 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

So, I have confirmed this from ever Thai person I have asked. They actually don't like it.

But, so many ex-pats mispronounce the name of this city.

Even the TV announcers, long time ex-pats, etc.

 

It is properly pronounced : Paw-te-yah

It is not Pat-t-a.

 

Big difference,

Just saying.......

 

Yet the famous song pronounces it Pat-ty-a.

[sandgroper2]

Patts.

[kevkev1888]

For me, I pronounce it Pat-a-ya.

The spelling seems to be pretty much universally accepted to be Pattaya. However, on road signs on routes toward the city you will see Phatthaya, Phattaya, or Pattaya.

 

Phatthaya, Phattaya, Pattaya (So Good They Named It Thrice).

[Pdaz]

พัทยา = Put + Yar 

Simple enough... Still people calling in Pat-Tai-Ah though... 

 

[Guderian]

I found this letter many years ago, in 2004 or thereabouts, and it agrees with what I've since been taught when learning how to read Thai. I'll include the whole thing as it's a good read:

 

Still trying to pronounce Pattaya

Dear Sir,

Whilst Mr. Blount’s letter (2 April) is generally helpful, he is not quite right about Pattaya. And whilst the letter (9 April) from PCB Mitchell (hereinafter referred to as ‘PCBM’ to avoid tiresome repetition of ‘he/she’ etc.) sheds further light on the matter, it also simultaneously manages to sow further confusion.

That the first syllable of ‘Pattaya’ is short, not long, is, as PCBM says, indisputable. There are indeed some monosyllabic Thai words which, although written with a short vowel are pronounced long, and vice versa. Some always and others sometimes, depending on context - of which PCBM gives some examples. But ‘Pattaya’, or rather its first syllable, is not one of them. Indeed I am aware of no instance of this particular vowel sign (‘mai hanakart’) being pronounced long.

The correct syllabification of ‘Pattaya’ is not ‘pa-ta-yah’ (let alone ‘pah-ta-yah’), but ‘pat-ta-yah’. Although the Thai ‘t’ consonant is written only once, phonetically it serves two functions: first as the final consonant of the first syllable (this is indisputable since no syllable can end in ‘mai hanakart’) and then as the initial consonant of the second syllable.

As PCBM more or less says, ‘emphasis’ is not really a concept in the Thai language, except for forced pronunciations in exclamatory utterances. Whilst one appreciates Mr. Blount’s attempts at simplification, it simply will not do to brush aside the whole question of tones. PCBM’s rather throwaway ‘while the formal length of a vowel is crucial for the tone’, whilst not incorrect, is scarcely more helpful, particularly since he omits to tell us which syllables of ‘Pattaya’ have which tones.

What makes it sound as though the ‘emphasis’ is on the first syllable is precisely the combination of the high tone with the initial plosive ‘p’ sound and the clipped final ‘t’. There is no need to exaggerate the difficulty of tones: high tone simply means that the syllable is uttered at a pitch that is ‘high’ (in the musical sense, nothing to do with volume) relative to the speaker’s normal speaking pitch, regardless of whether the speaker is a soprano, bass or whatever.

At the risk of seeming pedantic and/or spoilsport, or possibly even obtuse (see hereunder), it does seem a pity that PCBM, having had a very respectable stab at elucidating the subject in hand, throws it all away by saying, ‘As far as pronunciation goes, all my local Thai friends put the accent on "tai" (south) (sorry!).’ Well might PCBM be sorry. I presume this is a reference to the concentration of ‘nighteries’, as your Bangkok Post colleague (see hereunder) would have it, in Pattaya Tai, but it risks adding to the confusion, which, as if it were not already enough, is further compounded by PCBM’s statement that ‘the second vowel is invisible’. Now I know that ‘invisible’ is not synonymous with ‘inaudible’, but I shudder to think what someone who neither reads Thai nor understands the joke about Pattaya Tai would make of this. Indeed the second vowel is invisible, i.e. it is not written: but that does not mean it is not there from a phonetic point of view. Some scholars refer to it as an ‘implicit’ vowel. In this case it has the same short ‘a’ sound as the ‘mai hanakart’ of the first syllable.

So, to summarise: The first syllable is pronounced ‘pat’ - not as an American, Australian or Londoner would say it, but as someone from the North of England would say it, with a very short ‘a’. For Americans, etc., one could almost say it’s nearer to ‘put’ than ‘pat’. It is pronounced with a high tone - as if a Yorkshireman were asking the question "Pat?"

The second syllable is a short, high-tone ‘ta’, often virtually swallowed in practice, especially when speaking fast; most certainly not ‘tie’ or ‘tea’ or anything remotely like that, and most certainly not emphasised.

The third syllable as per Mr. Blount, is a long, mid-tone ‘yah’, which, as PCBM says, can sound ‘emphasised’ because it is the only long syllable in the word.

Incidentally when Mr. Blount applies the word ‘obtuse’ to the Thai language, one assumes he means ‘abstruse’ ( = complex, difficult, hard to understand), or perhaps ‘obscure’ ( = unclear, dark). ‘Obtuse’ means ‘blunt’ (as in an ‘obtuse angle’, in geometry, the opposite of an ‘acute angle’), or, in metaphorical usage, ‘dull-witted’.

PCBM’s ‘a college of yours on the Bangkok Post’ should of course read ‘a colleague of yours....’ Obviously I can not tell whether this error is attributable to PCBM or to a servant of that illustrious organ, but either way, if we are to presume to debate the intricacies of the Thai language, we should at least use our own correctly.

Yours faithfully,
Neil Spensley

 

 

[eefoo]

1 hour ago, Guderian said:

I found this letter many years ago, in 2004 or thereabouts, and it agrees with what I've since been taught when learning how to read Thai. I'll include the whole thing as it's a good read:

 

Still trying to pronounce Pattaya

Dear Sir,

Whilst Mr. Blount’s letter (2 April) is generally helpful, he is not quite right about Pattaya. And whilst the letter (9 April) from PCB Mitchell (hereinafter referred to as ‘PCBM’ to avoid tiresome repetition of ‘he/she’ etc.) sheds further light on the matter, it also simultaneously manages to sow further confusion.

.

.

.

.

Yours faithfully,
Neil Spensley

 

 

 

 

tl;dr ? Don't be lazy - read it. It's spot on and highly educational.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

FUBAR is the correct pronunciation.

[bkk6060]

40 minutes ago, Awohalitsiktoli said:

FUBAR is the correct pronunciation.

HAHA.  A good laugh today thanks. :)

[Radar501]

I commented on one of Kev-In-Thailand's vlogs about nine months ago that he pronounces Pattaya incorrectly.

 

Kev replied that he DOES pronounce it correctly, but his new false teeth made it sound wrong.   

 

It's not just Kev.   Other long-time vloggers such as Steff's Thailand Travel and Geoff Carter should also know by now.

 

Of course, having an understanding of written Thai assists with correctly speaking the language. 

 

 

 

[KhunBENQ]

Another speaker.

(I doubt that all these transcript attempts will help).

 

Click to listen to audio:

http://www.clickthai-online.de/cgi-bin/playmp3.pl?249987

[KhunBENQ]

And who will build an audio guide to Pattaya's street and place names

Sometimes just funny to what different nationals bring out (and wonder why mototaxi guy does not understand)

[koo]

To add confusion, please note that the original name of the town is Thappaya (or "Thap Phraya" )

 

[monkey4u]

A large brothel is what it is

Call it what you want

[giddyup]

17 minutes ago, monkey4u said:

A large brothel is what it is

Call it what you want

Can I call you a predictable clown?

[monkey4u]

Just now, giddyup said:

Can I call you a predictable clown?

As long as you smile when you say it

I would hate to have my feelings crushed 

[sandgroper2]

4 hours ago, Guderian said:

I found this letter many years ago, in 2004 or thereabouts, and it agrees with what I've since been taught when learning how to read Thai. I'll include the whole thing as it's a good read:

 

Still trying to pronounce Pattaya

Dear Sir,

Whilst Mr. Blount’s letter (2 April) is generally helpful, he is not quite right about Pattaya. And whilst the letter (9 April) from PCB Mitchell (hereinafter referred to as ‘PCBM’ to avoid tiresome repetition of ‘he/she’ etc.) sheds further light on the matter, it also simultaneously manages to sow further confusion.

That the first syllable of ‘Pattaya’ is short, not long, is, as PCBM says, indisputable. There are indeed some monosyllabic Thai words which, although written with a short vowel are pronounced long, and vice versa. Some always and others sometimes, depending on context - of which PCBM gives some examples. But ‘Pattaya’, or rather its first syllable, is not one of them. Indeed I am aware of no instance of this particular vowel sign (‘mai hanakart’) being pronounced long.

The correct syllabification of ‘Pattaya’ is not ‘pa-ta-yah’ (let alone ‘pah-ta-yah’), but ‘pat-ta-yah’. Although the Thai ‘t’ consonant is written only once, phonetically it serves two functions: first as the final consonant of the first syllable (this is indisputable since no syllable can end in ‘mai hanakart’) and then as the initial consonant of the second syllable.

As PCBM more or less says, ‘emphasis’ is not really a concept in the Thai language, except for forced pronunciations in exclamatory utterances. Whilst one appreciates Mr. Blount’s attempts at simplification, it simply will not do to brush aside the whole question of tones. PCBM’s rather throwaway ‘while the formal length of a vowel is crucial for the tone’, whilst not incorrect, is scarcely more helpful, particularly since he omits to tell us which syllables of ‘Pattaya’ have which tones.

What makes it sound as though the ‘emphasis’ is on the first syllable is precisely the combination of the high tone with the initial plosive ‘p’ sound and the clipped final ‘t’. There is no need to exaggerate the difficulty of tones: high tone simply means that the syllable is uttered at a pitch that is ‘high’ (in the musical sense, nothing to do with volume) relative to the speaker’s normal speaking pitch, regardless of whether the speaker is a soprano, bass or whatever.

At the risk of seeming pedantic and/or spoilsport, or possibly even obtuse (see hereunder), it does seem a pity that PCBM, having had a very respectable stab at elucidating the subject in hand, throws it all away by saying, ‘As far as pronunciation goes, all my local Thai friends put the accent on "tai" (south) (sorry!).’ Well might PCBM be sorry. I presume this is a reference to the concentration of ‘nighteries’, as your Bangkok Post colleague (see hereunder) would have it, in Pattaya Tai, but it risks adding to the confusion, which, as if it were not already enough, is further compounded by PCBM’s statement that ‘the second vowel is invisible’. Now I know that ‘invisible’ is not synonymous with ‘inaudible’, but I shudder to think what someone who neither reads Thai nor understands the joke about Pattaya Tai would make of this. Indeed the second vowel is invisible, i.e. it is not written: but that does not mean it is not there from a phonetic point of view. Some scholars refer to it as an ‘implicit’ vowel. In this case it has the same short ‘a’ sound as the ‘mai hanakart’ of the first syllable.

So, to summarise: The first syllable is pronounced ‘pat’ - not as an American, Australian or Londoner would say it, but as someone from the North of England would say it, with a very short ‘a’. For Americans, etc., one could almost say it’s nearer to ‘put’ than ‘pat’. It is pronounced with a high tone - as if a Yorkshireman were asking the question "Pat?"

The second syllable is a short, high-tone ‘ta’, often virtually swallowed in practice, especially when speaking fast; most certainly not ‘tie’ or ‘tea’ or anything remotely like that, and most certainly not emphasised.

The third syllable as per Mr. Blount, is a long, mid-tone ‘yah’, which, as PCBM says, can sound ‘emphasised’ because it is the only long syllable in the word.

Incidentally when Mr. Blount applies the word ‘obtuse’ to the Thai language, one assumes he means ‘abstruse’ ( = complex, difficult, hard to understand), or perhaps ‘obscure’ ( = unclear, dark). ‘Obtuse’ means ‘blunt’ (as in an ‘obtuse angle’, in geometry, the opposite of an ‘acute angle’), or, in metaphorical usage, ‘dull-witted’.

PCBM’s ‘a college of yours on the Bangkok Post’ should of course read ‘a colleague of yours....’ Obviously I can not tell whether this error is attributable to PCBM or to a servant of that illustrious organ, but either way, if we are to presume to debate the intricacies of the Thai language, we should at least use our own correctly.

Yours faithfully,
Neil Spensley

 

 

I can lend you some books, or, if you like, take you along to some of the clubs i belong to.

[chrissables]

5 hours ago, Pdaz said:

พัทยา = Put + Yar 

Simple enough... Still people calling in Pat-Tai-Ah though... 

 

Yes and no :) พัท-ท-ยา Pat ta ya  

 

The "T" is the end of a syllable and the start of the new syllable as i understand it, although i admit i am not  anywhere near perfect in the Thai language.

 

Just checked online.......

 

Thai language.com =  พัทยา  phatH thaH yaa

Thai 2 english.com  พัทยาpát-tá-yaa

 

[DUS]

14 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Yes and no :) พัท-ท-ยา Pat ta ya  

 

The "T" is the end of a syllable and the start of the new syllable as i understand it, although i admit i am not  anywhere near perfect in the Thai language.

 

Just checked online.......

 

Thai language.com =  พัทยา  phatH thaH yaa

Thai 2 english.com  พัทยาpát-tá-yaa

 

 

 

I second that.... At least that´s exactly how they´d pronounce it at a language school., when learning to read and write Thai.

[Oxx]

22 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Yes and no :) พัท-ท-ยา Pat ta ya  

 

The "T" is the end of a syllable and the start of the new syllable as i understand it, although i admit i am not  anywhere near perfect in the Thai language.

 

Just checked online.......

 

Thai language.com =  พัทยา  phatH thaH yaa

Thai 2 english.com  พัทยาpát-tá-yaa

 

 

I find it laughable that such "authoritative" sources get the tone of the middle syllable wrong.  It's unstressed, and so it's mid tone - not high.

 

To quote one authority:  "Only in artificial 'dictation' style ... do they bear the phonemic tone we would expect from their spelling."

 

Source:  Bee, Peter J. (1975) "Restricted Phonology in Thai Linker Syllables" in "Studies in Tai Linguistics in Honor of William J. Gedney", Bangkok: CIEL, pp. 13-42.

[Boon Mee]

On 1/4/2017 at 0:05 PM, pegman said:

Thais pronounce it Pat-ti-yah

That is the only way this poster has heard it spoken apart from folks in Singapore who say "Paa-tie-yah.

Weird...

[Centrum]

Nah, you're all wrong.

I've heard it on Australian TV.  It's pronounced  "p - Tie - yar". Just ask any Australian, they're born linguists, I'll have you know!

 

 

:)

[maoro2013]

7 hours ago, kevkev1888 said:

For me, I pronounce it Pat-a-ya.

The spelling seems to be pretty much universally accepted to be Pattaya. However, on road signs on routes toward the city you will see Phatthaya, Phattaya, or Pattaya.

 

Phatthaya, Phattaya, Pattaya (So Good They Named It Thrice).

Yes the transliteration seems odd at times.

 

How many farangs call Koh Chang correctly, hardly any, even those with a knowledge of the thai language. It would be better transliterated as Go (short 'O') Chung, and then the tourists would have a chance at least of at getting it right.

 

Don't stress over this, how do Japanese pronounce Tokyo?

 

 

 

[rjwill01]

Too bad all this conversation isn't spent on the Thai education system.  If you ask 10 people to say Pattaya, you will get 10 different answers.  Who really cares, 

[thurien]

we call it "Pity Ya" thinking about all the poor geezers who lost everything (incl. their brains) there...

[Rimmer]

Two one line Pattaya bashing troll posts have been removed.

 

Look for your posting suspensions in your inbox

[bkk6060]

58 minutes ago, rjwill01 said:

Too bad all this conversation isn't spent on the Thai education system.  If you ask 10 people to say Pattaya, you will get 10 different answers.  Who really cares, 

You talking about Thai's?

If so, I started the thread and do not agree.  The Thai"s say it one way from my experience.  It is Falang  that mess it up. 

Pattaya TV is the worst they are not even close.

[jonw8uk]

6 hours ago, chrissables said:

Yes and no :) พัท-ท-ยา Pat ta ya  

 

The "T" is the end of a syllable and the start of the new syllable as i understand it, although i admit i am not  anywhere near perfect in the Thai language.

 

Just checked online.......

 

Thai language.com =  พัทยา  phatH thaH yaa

Thai 2 english.com  พัทยาpát-tá-yaa

 

 

agreed, but your thai syllable breakdown has a small mistake, as well as the T sound being the start of a new syllable there's a hidden ะ : พัท-ทะ-ยา