expelled from my flat and deposit kept

[deronnax]

Hi people.

I rented a serviced flat in Chiang Mai, leaving a deposit. It happened that in december, I have almost been completely away from Chiang Mai, and so, for the week of Christmas & new year's eve, I put it on airbnb so someone can enjoy it (I put at the the price I pay it). The tenant screw up and went straight to the office, saying he rented the flat on airbnb. The office lost its mind, sent me a mail telling me they break the "contract"  (I didn't sign any contract, just a sheet with the prices), threw my stuff out (a friend had to come to pick my stuff instantly), and that they keep my rent (10 000B) AND the deposit (10 000B).

This is really unfair, it put me in huge troubles (meanwhile I lost my debit card, can't find anything else) and I doubt this is legal (in most country you can't just expell people instantly and also : nowhere it was written it's forbidden, and where I come from, France, sub-letting a furnitured flat is legal !)

 

What do you think ? What can I do ?

[trogers]

Go back to France, where it is legal to sublet, using AirBnB?

[deronnax]

Wow, very smart and powerful, few people would have been able to give such an useful answer. It was a nice use of your time and mine, thank you.

[impulse]

Your best bet?  Walk away before they put you in real trouble for operating an unlicensed hotel without a work permit or other requirements.

 

You just had a $600 lesson in doing diligence before acting on an idea.  You have zero cards to play.  They probably know enough people to make it an even more expensive lesson.  Like finding yourself at the airport with a one way ticket back home expensive.

 

Search this website for AirBNB to see what's been happening in that arena the last year or so in Thailand.

[Crossy]

Did you get permission to sub-let?

 

No?

 

QED.

 

[blackcab]

You can't expect to sublet a condo without the owner's permission. It's that simple. You don't have a contact, so the owner can do whatever they want with your deposit and rent in advance. If you don't agree, your only option is to take the matter to Court.

 

The contract our company uses has this covenant in it:

 

The Lessee agrees not to assign any right hereunder nor sublet the Leased Premises or any part thereof without prior written consent from the Lessor. For the avoidance of doubt, by signing this Agreement you agree not to advertise online, advertise offline, rent, lease, hire or sublet the Leased Premises in any way whatsoever. You agree that breach of this clause will result in immediate termination of this Agreement, with all Rental Payments being immediately due on the date this Agreement is terminated. Furthermore, you agree to indemnify the Lessor against all legal claims for damages, taxes, penalties, fines and interest made by any Government Department, Government Agency, Condominium Juristic Person or by any third party as a result of your breach of this clause.

 

I think you will be able to see that landlords are not keen on subletting.

[trogers]

Property owners are not keen on allowing sublets primarily due to the ultimate lack of control as to who uses the premises and their purposes.

 

His property may even end up as a brothel or gambling or drug den...

[LivinLOS]

Even more mind blowing is you seem to feel the treatment is unfair.. 

[A1Str8]

It's simple. It depends on what you signed. In Thailand it's not legal but if you didn't sign anything that said you cannot do it or doing so will be a breach of contract and they will keep your deposit then they have no right to move you out immediately and have no right to keep your deposit. Go report it to the police if you didn't sign anything that said you can't do what you did. 

If you did then there's nothing you can do.  

It reminds me of that hospital that recently confiscated the passport of a foreigner coz she couldn't pay. Then when she went public with it, the hospital all of a sudden gave back the passport and all the money she had paid till that day. 

If you don't let them screw you then they won't. That's all. But like I said that's only if you haven't signed anything that you should have not signed. 

 

But how is that even possible that you didn't sign any contract just a sheet with the prices? 

Then if it's true they broke the law because there must be a contract so report that too. 

By the way can I know the name of the apartment(you can PM me) so I won't go to that place when I am back to CM. 

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, A1Str8 said:

... But how is that even possible that you didn't sign any contract just a sheet with the prices? 

Then if it's true they broke the law because there must be a contract so report that too.

 

I don't believe there is any law in Thailand that requires a property owner to give a contact to a person that rents their property. If there is I'd be obliged if you could share it with me.

[zorro1]

I'm always skeptical when I see a first time poster.
Just a silly post.. Suck it up if you're not trolling and move on it was a dumb idea!

[HooHaa]

yer a fool. too damn bad

 

[A1Str8]

23 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

I don't believe there is any law in Thailand that requires a property owner to give a contact to a person that rents their property. If there is I'd be obliged if you could share it with me.

I am not gonna look up the law, go ahead DIY but I have never heard of such thing in my life that you need to sign a sheet with only prices on it. There's a reason why a contract is signed by both parties whenever something is leased rented or sold. And yes it is by law, because that's a legal document that's drawn so that anything happens they can get it sorted out legally. 

 

[Peterw42]

OP mentions that its a "serviced " apartment. I would imagine thats not far short of a hotel and may even have a hotel license. That sort of takes it up a notch, sub letting a hotel room.

[Peterw42]

3 hours ago, A1Str8 said:

But how is that even possible that you didn't sign any contract just a sheet with the prices? 

Then if it's true they broke the law because there must be a contract so report that too. 

 

Its probably a hotel, you dont sign a contract when you stay at a hotel.

[trogers]

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Its probably a hotel, you dont sign a contract when you stay at a hotel.

 

Nor can you sublet the room.

 

I have never come across a hotel requesting a month's rent and deposit of only Bt10,000 each.

[lkn]

On 1/6/2017 at 7:29 PM, trogers said:

 

Nor can you sublet the room.

 

I have never come across a hotel requesting a month's rent and deposit of only Bt10,000 each.

 

The Opium Serviced Apartments & Hotel (in Chiang Mai) have studios starting at 2,000 baht/day or 12,500 baht/month, and conditions are one month deposit and one month advance rental.

 

So effectively identical to the OP’s situation.

 

It really goes without saying that you cannot sublet something like this, and even if you could, OP would need work permit and hotel license.

 

Maybe they overreacted, but had I been the owner, I would have been frustrated with OP as well and thrown him out immediately including keeping his money.

[trogers]

52 minutes ago, lkn said:

 

The Opium Serviced Apartments & Hotel (in Chiang Mai) have studios starting at 2,000 baht/day or 12,500 baht/month, and conditions are one month deposit and one month advance rental.

 

So effectively identical to the OP’s situation.

 

It really goes without saying that you cannot sublet something like this, and even if you could, OP would need work permit and hotel license.

 

Maybe they overreacted, but had I been the owner, I would have been frustrated with OP as well and thrown him out immediately including keeping his money.

 

Are they licensed? Hard to tell for a location like CM...?

[deronnax]

@A1Str8. It's P.T. Residence, Nimman.

Lesson learnt is than when you give someone deposit, you better sign a contract to know in which conditions they can keep it.

Bargaining, I managed to get half of it back. Still 125€ down the drain + lost rent but it's good enough for me. Moved to another condominium.

 

And of course I'm not a troll. What would the point of making that up, it' s not even funny.

[ozmeldo]

So others can enjoy it

 

Toooo lol

 

And you post here, oblivious to your huge lapse in judgement. Hope they keep every satang.

 

Genius

[Rhys]

So how kind of you.... a donation....

[deronnax]

What a bunch of embittered, angry haters on this forum. Low life people. When I read all your angry comments, wishing me to lose all the money and telling I deserved it (because you decided so ?), I feel being a better human being, and I thank god I'm not you.

 

I live a good life, I don't need to post mean comments on forum to offload my frustration.

[Squeegee]

39 minutes ago, deronnax said:

What a bunch of embittered, angry haters on this forum. Low life people. When I read all your angry comments, wishing me to lose all the money and telling I deserved it (because you decided so ?), I feel being a better human being, and I thank god I'm not you.

 

I live a good life, I don't need to post mean comments on forum to offload my frustration.

 

 

"because you decided so ?"

 

Because you chose to break the law.

 

 

 

"I feel being a better human being"

 

You mean as a law-breaker?

 

 

 

"...and I thank god I'm not you."

 

You mean law-abiding?

 

 

 

 

Actually what you do within or outside the law is up to you, if you can fathom which side of the law you're actually on.

 

 

 

 

 

[siam2007]

I agree with those saying that it was not exactly a smart idea to sub-let the room, but as well I agree with the comments of the OP regarding the replies of some bitter haters and low-life-creatures.

 

Them need to know:

If you have nothing good (or useful) to say, better say nothing at all

[Bassosa]

Section 544/545 of Thai Civil and Commercial Code clearly states that subletting without authorization is not allowed. The letter may terminate whatever agreement you would've had. By subletting you've waived your rights to have your deposit returned.

 

Please also consider that you've put the owner of the serviced apartments in a potentially nasty spot. They would've ended up with an unidentified foreigner in their building. Thai authorities (immigration department) are notoriously strict about this.

 

Moreover, you've duped an innocent guest on AirBnB who ended up on Thai soil without a hotel booking. I'm sure things worked out for him/her but still....

 

And you've conned AirBnB.

Also, did you express any humility towards the owner of the property? Did you apologise? After reading your messages and noticing your defensive attitude I have a feeling you didn't.

[Junkyarddog]

I have property that I rent out. I do not allow my tenant to sublet and this is clearly stated in the lease agreement. There are many reasons for this.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

You endangered the owners business after you broke several laws and you wonder why you where thrown out. Amazing farang in amazing Thailand.

[Kabula]

In my opinion, if you paid rent including the time you were evicted without a legal contract you should be able to recover your deposit and perhaps secure additional damages.

 

It appears there was no binding legal contract between owner and tenant.

 

I would recommend talking to a competent, experienced, licensed lawyer specializing in owner, tenant disputes.  Not a Paralegal.  Ask to see his license to practice law.

 

Most competent Landlords in Thailand have tenants sign leases so both parties are protected.

[TheFishman1]

Stupidity at its best LolTiT

[ThailandLOS]

On 2017-01-05 at 4:10 PM, deronnax said:

I put it on airbnb so someone can enjoy it (I put at the the price I pay it)

 

Either you are trying to wind us all up - or you have a serious lack of common sense.