British man assassinated in gangland hit in Pattaya

[Rimmer]

Three off topic posts have been removed, please do not try to hijack this topic

[BruceMangosteen]

17 hours ago, pegman said:

Come on Jerry, your not keeping up with the latest. There was a report that the gun had been found and this was speculation on how it was found.

The report was from someone who heard it on the radio....So we are not only without a real clue, we are curious how such a "report" would lead others to speculate on how and where they found said "gun". Time has already passed, the suspects have left, the money has been found and I assume distributed. BTW, last time I entered Cambodia VIA the Had Lek crossing, they had American supplied fingerprint machines. Perhaps you could let the Thai police know there might be a fingerprint record of the suspects at said border and the might be able to match them up to the disposed cigarette or on this "gun" you think exists? No, I've not heard anything about the deceased wife...before you ask. I hope she's okay and the children are taken care of. 

[jing jing]

On 01/24/2017 at 10:28 PM, bizwhiz said:

He's facebook  paint's at least 2 pictures...

*The wolf of wall street was this guy's hero and someone he wanted to be like, he mentioned how 2017 was going to be huge taking things to another level. Got that right!! Hit could be linked to he's dodge business partners or rivals                  HOWEVER      

*The other line of enquiry for police to follow up hopefully is the fact he recently got married in December. I notice the wife has a couple kids to Thai father. Should absolutely be investigated and not just blamed on a gang hit in the media from the get-go to appear like it is no big deal/loss.  How he got money and who organised the hit may not be linked. The fact he could of been involved in shady underground biz would be a massive carrot dangling in front of the new wife to potentially organise a crime knowing could easily point the finger to a different direction & comfortably get away with it. 

How he is linked to a 'boiler room' pretty much from the moment the crime took place is suspicious.  

Because of info leaked so early on Police involvement  also a possibility with the rewards flowing down to ceasing/collecting from some assets or other locals who is connected to police.   

# If he owed money there's warnings first to try and force the money out of fear(if know people that kill for cash will certainly know people to threaten family or do a knee capping) you would not want to order the bloke dead straight off the bat then def won't see it returned. By this man being dead there has to be significant financial advantage to someone via he's assets or biz dealings. Who gains from hes death most probably ordered the hit. 

#Tipping being in the day he left home and not some night hangout spot. Timing of it is interesting(no kids with him,or wife)...New wife gets the tick being number 1 suspect on the timing.

 

If family want proper closure there best chance is to have a Private investigator look into it if can afford it. Otherwise this one will not be solved and will be just put under the " oh well reports say was up to no good, probably got what he deserved basket"

 

Investigate the wife first then go from there!  

 

 

Bingo.  Follow the money.

[pegman]

1 hour ago, jing jing said:

Bingo.  Follow the money.

Did you not read the previous 20 pages? The evidence so far proves that theory way off.

[elgordo38]

2 hours ago, jing jing said:

Bingo.  Follow the money.

Money is always a good motivator and the first people that GOOD police work looks at is family and friends. She may have had visions of losing it all if he was tried and found guilty. Large insurance policy? A lot at play here lets hope the plod gets it right. 

[balo]

On 2/3/2017 at 0:21 PM, LandOfWiles said:

Sihanoukville police are now looking for the two suspects. 

 

https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/police-ask-for-information-on-thai-murder-suspects-124518/

Too late , the last place they are hiding is in Sihanoukville.  

 

They could have crossed the border to Vietnam or somewhere else , maybe China who knows. 

 

 

 

[LandOfWiles]

13 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Money is always a good motivator and the first people that GOOD police work looks at is family and friends. She may have had visions of losing it all if he was tried and found guilty. Large insurance policy? A lot at play here lets hope the plod gets it right. 

Money is definitely a motivator and it would not be the first murder-for-money killing in Pattaya. But what would she have to gain? She already had money, a sports car, houses and a falang boyfriend that wasn't much older than her. It's difficult to see how she could have improved on this. I would say it's downhill for her now. Although she will likely inherit the cars and the houses, she wont have access to the income streams that she had before. They had been married since 2011 (not late last year as some reports claimed) and had just had the second child. If we were talking about a 65 year old falang and a 25 year old Thai girl then I would automatically think money, but it doesn't stack up in this case. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by LandOfWiles

[LandOfWiles]

34 minutes ago, balo said:

Too late , the last place they are hiding is in Sihanoukville.  

 

They could have crossed the border to Vietnam or somewhere else , maybe China who knows. 

 

 

 

I totally agree. When I first read the article my initial thought what "Cambodian police are now searching the last place on earth that the suspects will be staying".

[elgordo38]

56 minutes ago, balo said:

Too late , the last place they are hiding is in Sihanoukville.  

 

They could have crossed the border to Vietnam or somewhere else , maybe China who knows. 

 

 

 

I think your right they would definitely stay on the move and put as much distance behind them as they can. Being a foreigner in Asia with the cops on your heels makes you a sitting duck although these 2 guys did not appear to be the sharpest knives in the drawer. 

[elgordo38]

25 minutes ago, LandOfWiles said:

she wont have access to the income streams that she had before. 

This part could be questionable. She might have learned enough about his business affairs to take over. Being a Thai she would undoubtedly blend in and have the knowledge of which wheels get the grease. 

[LandOfWiles]

2 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

This part could be questionable. She might have learned enough about his business affairs to take over. Being a Thai she would undoubtedly blend in and have the knowledge of which wheels get the grease. 

Ok - well let's agree for a minute that she could take over (I don't agree with that for a second by the way). Now you are left with only motivation. She already had plenty of money so it cannot be that. She already had a young white-skinned (there is nothing wrong with dark skin of course but I am thinking like a stereotypical Asian woman) falang boyfriend so it cannot be that. She already had a husband that had fathered two children to her. What more could she want? What is the next level that Pans wanted to reach after five years of marriage? I am struggling to see it. Yet when I consider boiler rooms and gangsters I see a hundred possibilities. 

[juice777]

This part could be questionable. She might have learned enough about his business affairs to take over. Being a Thai she would undoubtedly blend in and have the knowledge of which wheels get the grease. 

This is by far the biggest bit of pure speculation I have read yet of this Thread.

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[elgordo38]

30 minutes ago, juice777 said:

This is by far the biggest bit of pure speculation I have read yet of this Thread.

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Thank you you are after all living in Thailand. Keep that in focus. This is the land where top cops receive money from beer companies. We  have a wayward monk or two on the loose with the RTP scratching something??? A Red Bull baronet that skipped the country and much more mayhem sooo is it out of the realm of possibility. Speculation yes pure hardly. 

[elgordo38]

41 minutes ago, LandOfWiles said:

Ok - well let's agree for a minute that she could take over (I don't agree with that for a second by the way). Now you are left with only motivation. She already had plenty of money so it cannot be that. She already had a young white-skinned (there is nothing wrong with dark skin of course but I am thinking like a stereotypical Asian woman) falang boyfriend so it cannot be that. She already had a husband that had fathered two children to her. What more could she want? What is the next level that Pans wanted to reach after five years of marriage? I am struggling to see it. Yet when I consider boiler rooms and gangsters I see a hundred possibilities. 

Number one I would never claim to be an expert on the Thai female mind and I doubt if anyone else is here. I always laugh at the " I mentioned this to my wife and she said WHAT!!! comments posted here. Maybe it has something to do with the wiring and well I have known many females of different cultures in my life and when I think they will zig they zag. I have known a lot of women in my lifetime along with 3 wives (divorced) and when they say Men come from Mars and women come from Venus I believe it. Men can be a bit feral here but with women love and hate walk a pretty thin line. On a gentler note I knew a great pastry chef married to a Thai that built up a profitable bakery business and after the success became apparent to his wife she said "You can leave now the business is mine" After 3 months under her control the business died. 

[LandOfWiles]

24 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Number one I would never claim to be an expert on the Thai female mind and I doubt if anyone else is here. I always laugh at the " I mentioned this to my wife and she said WHAT!!! comments posted here. Maybe it has something to do with the wiring and well I have known many females of different cultures in my life and when I think they will zig they zag. I have known a lot of women in my lifetime along with 3 wives (divorced) and when they say Men come from Mars and women come from Venus I believe it. Men can be a bit feral here but with women love and hate walk a pretty thin line. On a gentler note I knew a great pastry chef married to a Thai that built up a profitable bakery business and after the success became apparent to his wife she said "You can leave now the business is mine" After 3 months under her control the business died. 

I would bet that pastry chef was out punching his weight in some way: age/looks/charisma or probably all three.

 

Like I said, I don't doubt that some Thai women would have their partner bumped off but I very much doubt that is true here. In Kenway's wifes case, you would have to ask what took her so long given they had been together since at least 2011. And then explain what her motivation was given that she already had so much. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by LandOfWiles

[Pat in Pattaya]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 10:57 AM, jing jing said:

Bingo.  Follow the money.

What??? He is nowhere near 'bingo'...miles out in fact. Embarrassing.

[elgordo38]

5 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

What??? He is nowhere near 'bingo'...miles out in fact. Embarrassing.

Hi Pat bingo is a western term meaning "Hey you got it" 

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, LandOfWiles said:

And then explain what her motivation was given that she already had so much. 

 She possibly suffers from female foresight and saw in the amulets that her husband lived a bit on the wild side Porsche tats hiding behind his glasses he seem to portray a movie star image into himself no doubt and with this flashy lifestyle she did not want to be collateral damage at some future date. At this point 4 children come into the picture and I need not tell you the mother bear protecting her cubs story. Best to nip it in the bud so to speak. She is easy on the eyes has some gelt so there should be a dark handsum man in her future and life moves on as does the many scenarios you and I could dream up. 

[elgordo38]

9 hours ago, juice777 said:

This is by far the biggest bit of pure speculation I have read yet of this Thread.

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If your not happy with that speculation I can provide another they are endless. Your living in Thailand old chap not Glocca Morra 

[juice777]

If your not happy with that speculation I can provide another they are endless. Your living in Thailand old chap not Glocca Morra 

Please I could do with a laugh I am a bit bored at the moment. And you are right speculation is endless,especially on this Thread. Also I had to Google Glocca Morra and found out its a fictional town in Ireland (also a California rock band) fictional being like your speculation.

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[elgordo38]

2 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Please I could do with a laugh I am a bit bored at the moment. And you are right speculation is endless,especially on this Thread. Also I had to Google Glocca Morra and found out its a fictional town in Ireland (also a California rock band) fictional being like your speculation.

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The story is riff with fictional speculation soooo you learned something new from Google good on you. Glad to help with your ongoing education. 

[LandOfWiles]

1 hour ago, elgordo38 said:

 She possibly suffers from female foresight and saw in the amulets that her husband lived a bit on the wild side Porsche tats hiding behind his glasses he seem to portray a movie star image into himself no doubt and with this flashy lifestyle she did not want to be collateral damage at some future date. At this point 4 children come into the picture and I need not tell you the mother bear protecting her cubs story. Best to nip it in the bud so to speak. She is easy on the eyes has some gelt so there should be a dark handsum man in her future and life moves on as does the many scenarios you and I could dream up. 

I checked her Facebook page. She was just as flashy as he was. And I would not call a five year relationship and two kids "nipping it in the bud". She likely knew he was up to no good not long after they met and I doubt it bothered her very much. 

 

Today you're saying she was a protective mother but yesterday you suggested she wanted to take over the business. Not only is your speculation wild, it is wildly different from day to day. There's nothing wrong with a bit of speculation but some speculation is better than others. 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by LandOfWiles

[auskanga]

Police support says the victim was not an “Average Joe”. His Facebook postings show(ed) an audience with people of significant stature. His friends were not shy to post their own flashy cars and openly flaunt a similar lifestyle.

 

These revelations suggest new found wealth as opposed to an organized criminal enterprise. These types of people are opportunistic as opposed to brazen.  Seasoned criminals generally stay low, say little and have few friends outside their group. Few career criminals have a Facebook page! Also, what is clearly a criminal act in the West, becomes a gray area in Asia with money placed in the right palms. Beyond the Call Center, the opportunistic victim could have been into any number of illegal dealings. Drugs, counterfeit products, stolen cars come to mind which broadens the motives and in turn multiplies the list of suspects. In the West, seasoned criminals avoid any form of law enforcement at all costs. In the victim’s case, he openly paraded his contacts. How many on this forum know a Police Officer, Immigration Official, City Hall contact or at least someone who has a “friend” of the above mentioned?? I thought so.

 

The shooters ran to Cambodia for good reason. An under manned and slow moving police force offers them staging for the trip out of the country. Travel documents aren’t necessary when for a few hundred dollars, a local will walk you through a farmer’s field into Vietnam or Laos. Those bumpkins could be long gone by now.

 

My two cents are no more than supposition and guess work. However, as someone familiar with investigative work in Asia this case is cold already. 

[Zikomat]

On 2/2/2017 at 0:43 PM, LandOfWiles said:

Facebook must be a godsend for the police. It's hard to imagine them designing a better system themselves. They've got your friends list, check-ins, likes and photos of that you new car you've just bought. All organised in a easy to digest timeline format. It's also surprising how many people roll with the default (public) visibility settings. It's hard not to laugh at Caldeira's post "Stay low key, not everyone needs to know everything about you". The irony of posting this on Facebook seems lost on him. It's even funnier now that this post is full of comments from random strangers across the globe kindly reminding him about his upcoming stay at the Bangkok Hilton.  

Opposite to what seems to be a generally accepted view today, people are actually becoming stupider and stupider over the last several decades, not smarter. Using the modern technology products like computers, facebook , iphones etc. does not need much brains. Funnily enough it often makes one's brain work less and less. The example above is just a classic case of the modern youth's ultimate stupidity.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Zikomat

[Zikomat]

Everybody only suspect the murdered guy's "business" partners or even employers. Some racist pigs even suspect the Briton's Thai wife (that is a type of people who always seek the guilty ones amongst the people of different race and origin. Typical Trump voters). But I would like to add one more channel of possibilities (although, it may be was already mentioned in this thread). As we know the boiler room operations create a long string of victims which one of whom, given the chances, would cut the boiler room's boss a head. This kind of people could easily order a revenge.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Zikomat

[champers]

I don't think racism is the motive for putting the wife onto a list of suspects. Spouses often turn out to be involved, even if not directly i.e. pulling the trigger themselves. If an enormous insurance payout is coming her way, the wife would or should be a suspect whether she be Thai, British or any other nationalty, creed, colour, race or religion. I cannot discern how high up on the list of subjects the wife should be but she should be on it to be ruled out or investigated further.

[Zikomat]

17 minutes ago, champers said:

 Spouses often turn out to be involved

How often? Do you have any statistics to prove your words? Especially if we are talking about the murder of somebody who was taking part in criminal activity? 

Edited February 5, 2017 by Zikomat

[AlexRich]

54 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

How often? Do you have any statistics to prove your words? Especially if we are talking about the murder of somebody who was taking part in criminal activity? 

Like you, I doubt that the wife will be involved in any way, this looks like a revenge killing over a business relationship ... the victim may well have owed them money and thought that he could safely ignore them ... I suppose that is what boiler room scammers do with their victims? So perhaps he thought these two guys, the Englishman and South African would take no violent action. It is unlikely that they could legally enforce the handing over of money derived from illegal activities. He miscalculated.

 

You see see the same with the property developer con men, their calculation is that the victims won't take any violent action against them, and if they are in cahoots with law enforcement the victims have no legal route. So they get away with it.

 

Having said all of that, there have been many cases in Thailand and around the world where the wife was involved in the killing. One getting a lot of press in the UK was the Brit millionaire and his Ukrainian 'pole dancer' wife. So it is a legitimate area of enquiry. 

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, LandOfWiles said:

I checked her Facebook page. She was just as flashy as he was. And I would not call a five year relationship and two kids "nipping it in the bud". She likely knew he was up to no good not long after they met and I doubt it bothered her very much. 

 

Today you're saying she was a protective mother but yesterday you suggested she wanted to take over the business. Not only is your speculation wild, it is wildly different from day to day. There's nothing wrong with a bit of speculation but some speculation is better than others. 

 

 

OK I nominate you as the spectacular speculator of 2017. When can I crown you?? Please do not take this literally as I have one made up from tinfoil. Do not wear outside in a thunderstorm. Love ya. 

[raro]

Let's keep this thread civilized, thanks!

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